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 lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
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 SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! 
#3375154 - 11/17/04 04:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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...now there's an attention grabber 
seriously tho, I wanna know your thoughts.
My family is Muslim (not orthodox at all - in fact
my mom keeps telling me n my brother to only have
temporary relationships and not get attached...after
she's seen the pain my divorce n relationships and my
brother's relationships have caused), and my mom
firmly believes that suicide is a one way ticket
to "Hell" (eternal torment). I've argued and debated
the direct contradiction this implies with a benevolant
God (which she also believes in), but she has an amazing
ability to deny and maintain askewed logic. I've talked
with a bunch of folks (relatively non religious) about this
and gotten the same reply - that suicide is just plain wrong.
Most people get frightened when u broach the subject of
suicide...it seems like one of the most taboo subjects on
the planet. But I find it quite interesting (call me
morbid ).
One of the things that also makes me wonder is that people can
be so open minded, but they shut down all thoughts about
the subject of suicide. I was watching a NLP session about
"Changing your Beliefs" and Rich Blander was talking about
instilling more useful Beliefs and getting rid of "unuseful"
ones, and he said that many Psychologists cring at the idea
cauze they say "if u could change Beliefs then u wouldn't
know what to believe". It made me wonder what NLPers would say
about instilling the belief that ending ones life when one
desired was OK (something tells me that they would cringe
at this idea).
so yea, I wanna know your thoughts... I mean, yes it would
cause others pain (if u have loved ones that is), but then
it's tough living ones life constantly considering other peoples
pains... I mean at some point u have to think about what u
want right ? that's why people end relationships, convert
from their parents religion to a different one or become
athiests, etc etc...
I figured I'd open a can of worms here 
let the discourse beginnnn....
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
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 Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3375330 - 11/17/04 04:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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man this subject really is taboo... no one has anything
to say about it here either 
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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 Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3375354 - 11/17/04 04:56 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I need to be more obedient to your parents, kaffir boy. 
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 dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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I think it was mainly the Europeans of old that had this cultural taboo which spread to America and elsewhere they colonized. Take the Japanese for instance. In their culture, they even go so far as to have ritual suicide. You can commit suicide if you lost a battle because of something you did. You can even commit suicide to bring shame on someone. In Europe, if someone insulted you, you would challenge them to a duel, and then one or both of you would die. In Japan, if someone insulted you, you could commit suicide and bring shame upon the insulter. Quite frankly this strikes me as being largely more effective (not to say that I really think suicide is a GOOD thing!). However, they also experience less guilt. If someone commits suicide, then there is a sadness, but nothing like in the western hemisphere, where many people who knew the person who commited suicide would feel some personal responsibility.
Assuming I remember any of my history.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
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u meant
"you need to be more obedient to your parents, kaffir boy"
I'm just wondering about the whole taboo subject in general, not
just from a religious perspective but also from an athiestic
perspective - I mean athiests will say the same thing, they'll
say it's wrong...somehow... but when u get down to the nitty
gritty of the why's there are no answers...
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: dblaney]
#3375443 - 11/17/04 05:10 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney18 said:
I think it was mainly the Europeans of old that had this cultural taboo which spread to America and elsewhere they colonized. Take the Japanese for instance. In their culture, they even go so far as to have ritual suicide. You can commit suicide if you lost a battle because of something you did. You can even commit suicide to bring shame on someone. In Europe, if someone insulted you, you would challenge them to a duel, and then one or both of you would die. In Japan, if someone insulted you, you could commit suicide and bring shame upon the insulter. Quite frankly this strikes me as being largely more effective (not to say that I really think suicide is a GOOD thing!). However, they also experience less guilt. If someone commits suicide, then there is a sadness, but nothing like in the western hemisphere, where many people who knew the person who commited suicide would feel some personal responsibility.
Assuming I remember any of my history.
very interesting, I wasn't aware of this. Any Japanese folks
out there care to elaborate ? or anyone who knows more about
this ?
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3375483 - 11/17/04 05:15 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well from my own viewpoint, suicide is looked down on by society for the wrong reasons. It seems taking any life, even your own, is just plain wrong.
I think however, that while it may not be wrong per se, it is a shame to both the person who commits suicide, and to society. Life, while definitely not always, or even sometimes often, fun, it is important to experience life, make decisions, improve upon the human project. Suicide is 'the easy way out'...but it also deprives one of experiencing the rest of their natural flesh life.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3375509 - 11/17/04 05:19 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't know why an atheist would think suicide wrong... wouldn't it just be cutting to the chase for them.
For some people who kill themselves it's not a big deal... for others it is.
Few years ago some guy hung himself in my hometown when I lived there. He apparently wrote on the mirror "I love you Jesus, please forgive me."
It all boils down to God I think. Atheists who are suicidal are likely to make less a big about it to themselves... for a religious person, they're putting all their eggs in one basket hoping for mercy at the other end of the splice. Suicide is just a single act though. It doesn't determine if one is righteous or unrighteous. Good and bad people do themselves in. Some people kill themselves for obviously unbearable reasons (If Chris Reeves went through with his suicide after his accident, most of the world would be like "Can you blame him?"), others for stupid reasons. And then you have the weirdo suicides in Japan and what not... I don't know what's up with those.
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Edited by zahudulallah (11/17/04 05:29 PM)
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Anonymous
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http://www.near-death.com/suicide.html 
bout as close as you are going to get to the answers you seek, without actually killing yourself, personally, and coming back to tell how it was. 
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Jellric
altered statesman
Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3375979 - 11/17/04 06:50 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think people say that suicides go to hell for the same reason they tell their kids not to masturbate because you'll get HPS (Hairy Palm Syndrome) or don't smoke ganja because you'll grow man-boobs. They really, really don't want you to do it and are willing to lie or at stretch the truth to keep you from doing it.
The thought of suicide has certainly gotten many people through a hard day, but if you believe in any kind of moral order to the universe, and I do, you could never do it or condone it.
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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.
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oceansize
fuckin' right.
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Quote:
I don't know why an atheist would think suicide wrong... wouldn't it just be cutting to the chase for them.
So if life itself has no purpose, other than waiting to die to meet your maker? Maybe allowing you a lil time to suck up to the big guy by mocking the infidels?
Lucid, the reason atheists may say suicide is wrong is really the same a religious person holds- A natural aversion to it of biological origin. Sure, a Christian may say suicide is the express lane to hell, but that is almost an afterthought. The taboo is really psychological hardwired.
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"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: oceansize]
#3376032 - 11/17/04 07:03 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mocking infidels?
Hehe..
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shroomydan
exshroomerite
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3377214 - 11/17/04 11:59 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lucid said: my mom
firmly believes that suicide is a one way ticket
to "Hell" (eternal torment). I've argued and debated
the direct contradiction this implies with a benevolant
God (which she also believes in), but she has an amazing
ability to deny and maintain askewed logic.
Here is some logic:
God is benevolent. However, he creates us with the freedom to reject him. If we loose the ability to make choices at death, then an act of suicide would be the final choice. It amounts to throwing the gift of life back in God's face, rejecting communion with him. This final act of rejection of God could not be repented of if the ability to act ends at death. A benevolent God who respects the freedom he has given to men and women could allow the soul of the person who rejects communion with him to flee into the darkness by his own free choice; this is hell.
Here's a version from the Muslim perspective (I think, I'm not Muslim.)
We belong to God, not to ourselves. God values people and forbids us to murder one another; The crime of murder can warrant damnation. Suicide is the act of murdering self. We are not allowed to murder any of God's people including ourselves.
Here's the Catholic version.
God sends no one to hell. People chose heaven when they chose to love God and to love neighbor as self; Heaven is a giant love fest among God and all the saints(holy people and angels in heaven). Those who do not love God, neighbor, and self would find the communion of heaven repugnant and flee from it at death. The only "place" to flee is hell. Jesus describes this in one parable as being forever locked outside of a party that we were invited to attend but refused the invitation. What makes hell so bad is the only other people there are those who also chose to hate instead of to love. They make poor companions.
The choice can be viewed in two ways: the "final option" and the "fundamental option."
Final option theory says that at the moment of death the soul stands before God and chooses once and for all to be united with him and all the blessed, to move into the light accepting that every thought and act will be known by all, or to reject this unity, prefering to flee into the darkness away from God's presence.
Fundamental option theory says that the sum total of a person's life determines the the choice for or against God. Though out life a person makes countless choices which direct him towards or away from God. Some acts radically move our orientation away from God; they are called mortal sins. A mortal sin is an act which changes the souls fundamental option from love to hate, from communion with God to rejection of him. Fortunately these can be forgiven and a course correction made back toward love and God. This theory asserts that the choice of heaven or hell is made while we are breathing, not at some point after death.
I hold along with Pope JP II that both are correct. The final option and the fundamental option are the same thing. When we stand before God to chose heaven or hell we will be convicted and offered mercy and love. If throughout our lives we have accepted love and mercy and been loving and merciful to others, then we will likely chose communion with God and enter heaven. If throughout our lives we have rejected God then we will likely reject him again.
Suicide is a grave matter which changes the fundamental option away form God. While it is possible that the person who kills himself could immediately repent at the final judgment and choose to love God, neighbor, and self , it seems unlikely as his last living act is an act of hatred for self.
That being said, the catholic religion does not teach that anyone is definitely in hell. This is because, as you noted, God is benevolent and infinitely merciful. This benevolence and mercy, however, does not prevent him from allowing us to reject the invitation to his party.
Don't kill yourself. It's bad.
Life is good.
Peace, love, and shroomyness.  
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3378284 - 11/18/04 07:56 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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And now some philospohic insight:
I think, the ones who commit suicide suffer the most. But if they are healthy, why should those, who know the suffering the best, should give way to that suffering by killing themselves, for that this suffering rages on and on to other people ?
In my opinion, if you are healthy and suffering, don't kill yourself before you make the life you expect to live. Just do it and those who block your way will suffer !
If those, who committed suicide would have lived on, the world would be a better place for sure ! Because it's them, who struggle against that evil ! And it's often our fault that we don't help them fighting against that.
And if they get the rock rolling, the idea of suicide suddenly goes far away from them. Hell is, they gave up too fast and wasted their chances.
Just a perspective that has prooven right for me.
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Gomp 
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: BlueCoyote]
#3378324 - 11/18/04 08:06 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Knowing what would happen, i would gladly drain my body"
-unknown :P
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Disclaimer!?
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Gomp]
#3378616 - 11/18/04 09:16 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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But then you whould not have the chance for a change...
"Don't change for a chance"
-the empty books |9
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goob
Sleepy
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: shroomydan]
#3379077 - 11/18/04 11:00 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think shroomydan's post coincides a lot with my thoughts on the matter except for a lot of the umm grandiosity...
I try and simplify it and think that suicide means we do it all over again, which may not be a bad idea if we want to be kids again and maybe experience this world differently.
When I get really scared I'm tempted, and I see that temptation as a means for the god of this world to keep me around.
Everyone knows I have screwy ideas about the god of this world, who I'm beginning to think didn't actualy get kicked out but actualy retired (into the wilderness) because he/she didn't agree with the way things were run.
So suicide keeps us here, murder keeps us here AND we can choose to remain here again if that's what we want.
So I guess if enough of us get together and say "Look God, this this and this has got to change" then God will do it
In other words, God is as dependent on us as we are on him/her (radical huh?)
(I keep expecting lightning)
Edited by goob (11/18/04 11:56 AM)
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: goob]
#3379313 - 11/18/04 12:09 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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The Buddhist view is that a person's state of mind at the time of death heavily influences their "throwing karma", that is to say, the karma that propells them into their next life. If a person's mind is gripped by anger, hatred, despair, or other turbulent states at the time of death (as is often the case with suicidial individuals), it's this which is most likely to manifest as their experience in the next life. Beings whose minds appear only intense suffering to them on a constant basis are called hell beings. Hell beings reside in the lowest relam, the hell realm.
The hell realm is not typically considered by Buddhists to be a physical location possessing it's own innate attributes. Instead, it is the experience of intense suffering which appears to a troubled mind. Since all experiences are sustained by an individual's karma, or "mental action", the karma which appears suffering to the hell being will eventually be exhausted, and the hell being will take a more fortunate rebirth, such as here in the human realm. A birth is considered fortunate if the experience of suffering is less, and if the opportunity to acheive liberation from suffering through the practice of a spiritual discipline is available.
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 Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud
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The_Visionaire
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Ped]
#3379396 - 11/18/04 12:31 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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But what if you were a happy and somewhat enlightened being and was put to jail for 30 of your best years.. Wouldn't you be more prepared for the journey into bardo by commiting suicide now, then by natural and dissillusioned death behind the dark prison walls?
Suicide is not a defiance of life, it is a defiance upon the conditions which life is given.
In a dream I once had, someone hit me with a bottle in the head and cracked open my skull  In a half-lucid state I decided "I will not accept this, this is not the kind of dream I want. I want to wake up!" And so I did. I kinda commited suicide in the dream, though...
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There are no differences between men and gods,
one blends softly causal into the other.
-Frank Herbert, Dune.
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goob
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Ped]
#3379873 - 11/18/04 02:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think Swami is favored/loved/rewarded by God.
If God said to me "Well done my boy; In your next life you can be Swami" I'd feel complimented.
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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: goob]
#3381082 - 11/18/04 06:45 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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first, i must define my concept of heaven and hell -
i believe that heaven is used to describethe state before birth (maybe, or maybe it is the state of non-awareness, when we are babies and completely satisfied sleeping and eating),
that purgatory represents the state of living in which we can discover ourselves, accept love, and go to a state of mindfulness and inner satisfaction (or maybe this is heaven?)
hell would be used to describe a state in which one can no longer reclaim themselves
suicide is the only way to ensure hell, because you have completely given up on your life. it is the ultimate sacrilege; you were given a gift, and you wasted it.
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/opinion
.sean
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain
Registered: 08/30/99
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>> But what if you were a happy and somewhat enlightened being and was put to jail for 30 of your best years.. Wouldn't you be more prepared for the journey into bardo by commiting suicide now, then by natural and dissillusioned death behind the dark prison walls?
Bardo is a place of uncertainty; it is the intermediary between this life and the next. It is not a realm of it's own because it is a state of being without perspective.
I've heard stories about misguided monks forcing themselves into their next life through suicide. It's not a practice which is encouraged, because a person's karma is vast and unpredictable. Even if we've been a spiritual practitioner for our whole life, it is just one life among countless previous lives. There is no telling what our circumstances will be when we are reborn.
Furthermore, irreversable seperation of mind from body occuring in a happy state of mind increases the probability that we will be reborn in one of the higher realms, such as the god-like realm. In the god-like realm, beings experiences a state of total bliss and comfort. Their experiences of suffering are few and far between. Since they are so blissful, they do not use their cognitive faculties for spiritual discipline and remain as ignorant, samsaric beings. Like the hell being, eventually their karma for pleasure is exhausted and another rebirth is taken within another realm of ignorance and suffering.
From the Buddhist point of view, human beings should try to avoid seperation from our body until we have completely purified our karma through the practice of spiritual discipline.
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Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud
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Swami
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Ped]
#3381673 - 11/18/04 08:46 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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because a person's karma is vast and unpredictable
If it is unpredictable, then that means it is unverifiable. How can one know that it even exists except as some myth handed down?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Swami]
#3381707 - 11/18/04 08:50 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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what i will do this weekend is unpredictable, but it is verifiable
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/opinion
.sean
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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What you will do this weekend is not a theory of universal balancing of sin/punishment and good act/reward.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Swami]
#3382059 - 11/18/04 10:15 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Before I answer your question, Swami, let me be clear that I'm not about to justify my beliefs for you. I have my own reasons for exploring and purveying these ideas, and I neither need nor desire your unreasonably rigid prejudgements and criticisms. I'm here to offer the Buddhist view as another view to be considered among many on this topic, and I have no interest in frivolous arguments with stubborn materialists. Consider that my carefully considered acceptance of Buddhist thought is not nearly as firmly rooted as your pejorative rejection of it.
So that, unfortunately for both of us, will be the terms of our dialog.
Now, to answer your question:
>> How can one know that it even exists?
Karma is a special instance of cause and effect whereby our actions are the cause, and our experiences are the effect. Through proper practice, we can adjust all of our actions to generate a specific series of experiential effects, from subtle to superficial. When those effects begin to manifest, we can take this as direct experience of our karmic continuum. This in turn can be taken as verification.
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Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace
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2Experimental
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Posts: 18,073
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3382773 - 11/19/04 02:09 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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if someone commits suicide they do not go to hell, because hell as the person who said it does not exist.. Yes, the mind-state they were in was of a hell like existence, but when their life energy is renewed to the cycle of the universe they can try all over.. Perhaps they will go down the same road, or maybe they will take the other path.. Hell is your mind and there is no eternity of hell, except your own self inspired one.. You can always fight it, no matter how many cosmo years it will take..
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
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Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3384636 - 11/19/04 02:11 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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This debate is very simple for me.
Life is a gift and not to be spat at. Killing yourself is spitting in the face of love.
If there is a place called hell with fire and pain. Then idiots who kill themselves for any reason deserve it. The trip to hell that is.
Errrr BUT...............What if I kill myself to save the life of my child ?????
That would be different. New debate
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3384688 - 11/19/04 02:19 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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/me spits in the face of love.
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Disclaimer!?
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Gomp]
#3384716 - 11/19/04 02:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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""What if I kill myself to save the life of my child ?????""
then you would not know if you saved your child or not, beeing dead and suff?
so that would be kinda like trying to piss when you are pissing?
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Disclaimer!?
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385063 - 11/19/04 03:28 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fucknuckle said:
This debate is very simple for me.
Life is a gift and not to be spat at. Killing yourself is spitting in the face of love.
If there is a place called hell with fire and pain. Then idiots who kill themselves for any reason deserve it. The trip to hell that is.
Errrr BUT...............What if I kill myself to save the life of my child ?????
That would be different. New debate
Have some compassion. Some people are simply emotionally weak. And there is no Hell.
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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There is a Hell!! as much as there is Positive and Negative forces.
What each person thinks Hell may be is up to each person.
Hell and Heaven both are very real. Every man will receive his rewards for his actions while living on earth.
Kinda like that SOB Arafat sending all those kids to a suicide death. He is getting his reward right now, Scumbag that he was.
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Blu Spore
Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 1,319
Loc: Canada 
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385410 - 11/19/04 04:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would never send a person to hell if I had the power to do so, no matter what they did in this life...does that mean I have more compassion than god? (im asking this as if we knew bad people were sent to hell)
If here on earth we dont believe in torturing our worst criminals than why do they deserve torture after death?
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Blu Spore]
#3385416 - 11/19/04 04:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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God does not send anyone to hell. Nether does Jesus of the bible say " GOD sends you to hell " LOL
Words and thoughts of MAN
God has said many times you make your own choice.
If you end up in Hell then you put yourself there not God
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Blu Spore]
#3385431 - 11/19/04 04:43 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
JimmytheWorm said:
If here on earth we dont believe in torturing our worst criminals than why do they deserve torture after death?
What planet do you live on again??
The planet I live on. Criminals get torture (both physical and mental) or death everyday and in every country.
The choices you make always result in some action.
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Blu Spore
Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 1,319
Loc: Canada
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385450 - 11/19/04 04:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
What planet do you live on again??
The planet I live on. Criminals get torture (both physical and mental) or death everyday and in every country.
The choices you make always result in some action.
That is true, people are tortured everyday in countries around the world but I think the majority of people think it is wrong to torture somebody. I would hope its just certain cruel individuals that believe torture is ok. Criminals do get the death sentence in countries like yours but it is mostly done in the most humane way possible. I don?t know the world is a fucked up place
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Blu Spore]
#3385464 - 11/19/04 04:55 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes there are a lot of humans who think that torture is a wrong choice, but all humans agree that you get what you sow.
Hell is the harvet of what you have done while alive, Simple.
God makes no jugement, you do. God just alows you to have the choice.
Because without choice there is no love, no realationship.
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385522 - 11/19/04 05:09 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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So do regular people. What is the correlation?
As for suicide, obviously any Way with a segment of sympathy to life would not send someone who is troubled enough to end their own life to an eternal black pit where you are burned alive forever. But suicide truly is useless, as the suffering you feel at the time of suicide is fading and temporary in this life, and later, whether it be a few hours or a few years, when you are more balanced again you will be happy that you have had more time in this life to experience it, to come to terms with your suffering and continue to rise to a higher way of thinking.
If you are reincarnated, then suicide is just a hindrance to your rising consciousness, as you have just wasted a good part of a life. If you rejoin the Tao's consciousness, then there was no reason to speed up the process and waste this time of humanity by ending it prematurely, when you could've learned much from it.
Those who commit suicide, though, should be regarded with love and sympathy, just like society would regard any other troubled innocent who has died.
I support the right to die and the individual's choice, nevertheless. I will not press my own thoughts on suicide onto what they decide for themselves
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Ravus]
#3385573 - 11/19/04 05:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Burning forever in FIRE LOL
That is not what hell is LOL
That is a description so a person can understand that it is a very bad place,thing,existence to be.
I will not try to understand what hell is after a person dies.
But I feel ZERO compassion for a FOOL who takes his own life. What a very selfish thing to do And very stupid. The people the fool leaves behind to pick up the pieces, they I feel pity and compassion for.
A man does not give himself the gift of life so what right does he have to take it. NONE
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Ravus]
#3385576 - 11/19/04 05:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for writing that Ravus.
I find it strange that it's so obvious to me logically, but
others do not see the logic.
Here's a list of Contradictions plain and simple
1) Hell - eternal torment for a finite crime
(our lives are finite, what could one possibly do in a
finite ammount to time to justify eternal punishment ?
Does NOT sound very just to me
2) Do I have more compassion than God ? I would NOT create
beings, then give them the ability to do wrong and then fry
them for eternity in Hell... hmmmm... duh.... does this NOT
seem obvious to u folks out there ??!!
Heck, I've been hurt by people, even tortured (in some sense)
at a few points in my life - but I forgive all these people...
it's senseless to want others to suffer...what could I possibly
gain from such a thing ? ego gratification ?
3) I picked suicide on purpose, cause, by definition it's an
act commited by someone who is in intolerable pain, and cannot
find a way out. Now religion sez that this person is to go to
Hell ? along with Hitler ? is there not a difference between
someone who couldn't bear the suffering imposed upon them
(imposed in the sense that they felt there was nothing
they could do to alleviate it) and a person who tortured and
murdered many people ?
These points seem so plain and obvious to me that I cannot
comprehend how someone could miss them or argue them. Even in
this world I doubt that most people who've been hurt and WANT
revenge would want to keep inflicting revenge on that person...
think about this... would they want to keep tormenting and
torturing that person ? for ETERNITY ?
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385582 - 11/19/04 05:27 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fucknuckle said:
"A man does not give himself the gift of life so what right does he have to take it. NONE"
common man... can ye not see a flip side to ye argument ?
"A man did NOT CHOOSE to be here, hence he has every RIGHT to
leave" ... 
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3385620 - 11/19/04 05:35 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lucid said:
1) Hell - eternal torment for a finite crime
(our lives are finite, what could one possibly do in a
finite ammount to time to justify eternal punishment ?
Does NOT sound very just to me
2) Do I have more compassion than God ? I would NOT create
beings, then give them the ability to do wrong and then fry
them for eternity in Hell... hmmmm... duh.... does this NOT
seem obvious to u folks out there ??!!
ETERNITY ?
You do not understand the reasons God gave us the Choice to do right or wrong and the rewards for such choices.
God created us with the ability to chose good or bad, love or hate, evil or not to be evil.
We are born with a choice. Without that choice we would just be a Dog or a horse.
God has made the path to him dificult for good reason. He wants us to be rewarded with ever lasting love and peace. It is up to us hwo we live that determines the path we go on on our after life.
GOD Does not put you in hell or condem you. YOU DO
And until a person can grasp that then he will alway be confused about such things.
Had God just made us perfect and our afterlife perfect then he may as well hang out with rocks
God loves us and wants a realationship with us so bad he made the world the way it is.
The choice to do right is everything and completely your choice not Gods.
He loves you perfectly
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
Edited by Fucknuckle (11/19/04 05:54 PM)
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385679 - 11/19/04 05:47 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wouldn't mind being a rock ...
"I am a rock,
I am Island"
and a rock feels no pain...
-Paul Simon
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3385707 - 11/19/04 05:53 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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LOL
Paul was talking about being full of Joy and being free from pain.
I.E. being filled with God
That is why Jesus was always called the Rock. Meaning that being filled with truth there is no storm that can shake you or break you.
 
But yeah I see the other side of the coin but I know the truth. I have seen it and touched it
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385820 - 11/19/04 06:16 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fucknuckle said:
There is a Hell!! as much as there is Positive and Negative forces.
What each person thinks Hell may be is up to each person.
Hell and Heaven both are very real. Every man will receive his rewards for his actions while living on earth.
Kinda like that SOB Arafat sending all those kids to a suicide death. He is getting his reward right now, Scumbag that he was.
Just chill out. God isn't a sadist. You are a fundamentalist Christian. Salvation isn't exclusive to your creed. Arafat, OBL, Bush, Sharon... they'll all be somewhat chastized for their sins before God assimilates them into His fullness.
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
Just chill out. God isn't a sadist.
whew ... thanks for clearing that up ...
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3385852 - 11/19/04 06:22 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lucid said:
Quote:
zahudulallah said:
Just chill out. God isn't a sadist.
whew ... thanks for clearing that up ...
No problem. A sadistic God that damns unbelievers to eternity in Hell is in contradiction with al-Rahman al-Raheem (the Merciful the Compassionate).
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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You have no idea what I am or my beliefs. You may have an idea, your close.
But Arafat was a asshole sorry
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385867 - 11/19/04 06:27 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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What the fuck does Arafat have to do with anything.
Your beliefs are so infantile and literal.
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
No problem. A sadistic God that damns unbelievers to eternity in Hell is in contradiction with al-Rahman al-Raheem (the Merciful the Compassionate).
GOD condemns no one to hell. A Man condemns himself and that is the confusion I keep reading in here
Is it the Judge in court that condemns a child rapist to prison for the rest of his life or is the rapist?
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
What the fuck does Arafat have to do with anything.
Nothing other than your display of his face.
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385884 - 11/19/04 06:30 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Prison is being locked away from society. Hell is being seperated from Eternal Love - from GOD. Hell isn't unbearable torture as you seem to think it is.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385888 - 11/19/04 06:30 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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He's in my signature. So what?
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
Prison is being locked away from society. Hell is being seperated from Eternal Love - from GOD. Hell isn't unbearable torture as you seem to think it is.
I never said Hell is unbearable torture. You quote me if you can. and after reading bible for 30 years I am hard pressed to find such a absolute description anywhere in it. Oh I have read that hell is a lake of fire and gnashing of teeth and such but that is a description of what it is like to be without GOD.
On the point of Arafat. He was a Pig and anyone who condones people walking into a dance club and blowing themselves up or walking into a city bus and killing children is a PIG and deserves many bad things. Hell only being one.
I never said I was a perfect God loving man. Only God can be perfect.
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 6 months, 27 days
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385917 - 11/19/04 06:39 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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if you did not know what Hell is?
could you still go there?
if you are in London, not knowing what London is, you would be i.e. somewhere? not in london?
Going to bed, this is going nowhere
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Disclaimer!?
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385927 - 11/19/04 06:41 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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My apologies, I misunderstood you. That is quite an interesting take on it.. gnashing of the teeth from seperation of God. I personally believe those who do not find their way to God simply cease to exist after physical death - ie, spiritual death, the death of consciousness. "The wages of sin are death."
As for Arafat, I imagine he's in the same boat as Bush, Sharon, Pope Urban II, etc. Arafat had a rigid start in his career, but he cannot be compared to the likes of OBL or Sheikh Yassin. Who are you though to judge. He still had a conscious relationship with God. God watched little Yasser grow up like the rest of us. He may have to speak up in the end, then again maybe all of us will. Not condemned, but definately scheduled to be chastized.
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Heaven is the t-bone that two angry dogs destroy each other over.
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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.
 
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
Prison is being locked away from society. Hell is being seperated from Eternal Love - from GOD. Hell isn't unbearable torture as you seem to think it is.
You don't get it do you?? How can pure love be in the same place as hate?
It can't. Just like you can't cross the terminals on your car battery. It will be destroyed.
Same reason why there is a hell. Do you think God will allow anything ather than Love to be in his presence? I don't think so
As I have said the truth is MAN condemns himself not God.
Man has the choice to be a kind and loving person. Man has the choice to believe that God loves him enough to make a home for him and a home for the hate and evil.
Where you end up is your choice not Gods. God had never condemned anyone to hell not ever. He loves all people and gives us the choice to love him.
LOL We all can't end up with god when we die. That is silly.
Why would Love want to mix hate? That would lead to destruction.
God want pure love and peace thru choice. That is how Heaven works.
Now I have no clue as to what exactly Hell or Heavan is other than one is opposite the other
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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psyka
Praetorian
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385939 - 11/19/04 06:46 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Is God a humanoid?
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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385942 - 11/19/04 06:47 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fucknuckle said:
Quote:
zahudulallah said:
Prison is being locked away from society. Hell is being seperated from Eternal Love - from GOD. Hell isn't unbearable torture as you seem to think it is.
You don't get it do you?? How can pure love be in the same place as hate?
It can't. Just like you can't cross the terminals on your car battery. It will be destroyed.
Same reason why there is a hell. Do you think God will allow anything ather than Love to be in his presence? I don't think so
As I have said the truth is MAN condemns himself not God.
Man has the choice to be a kind and loving person. Man has the choice to believe that God loves him enough to make a home for him and a home for the hate and evil.
Where you end up is your choice not Gods. God had never condemned anyone to hell not ever. He loves all people and gives us the choice to love him.
LOL We all can't end up with god when we die. That is silly.
Why would Love want to mix hate? That would lead to destruction.
God want pure love and peace thru choice. That is how Heaven works.
Now I have no clue as to what exactly Hell or Heavan is other than one is opposite the other
People who don't love God simply disappear. They don't exist in any state after death. Such would contradict oneness.
And where are you getting all this hate stuff.
We're starting to look like a couple of puppets here...
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: psyka]
#3385951 - 11/19/04 06:49 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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He's cross between a cat and a green hippo and he practices buddhism! 
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385956 - 11/19/04 06:51 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would think hell is here on earth. Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is within us and we attain it ourselves, so therefore Hell is also within us, which many attain in this lifetime by their greed, hatred and arrogance
"I am not collecting my knowledge from letters and books, but I have it within my own Self; because heaven and earth with all their inhabitants, and moreover God himself, is in man."
-Buddha
But without a doubt I don't believe Hell could be eternal, as humans gain more wisdom and compassion as they gain experience, and therefore wouldn't be eternally in this realm of lower consciousness- the greed and hatred and arrogance. The typical view of Hell, by the fundamentalist Muslims and Christians, is ridiculous, and the complete opposite of a completely-loving, all-forgiving and eternally aware Higher Consciousness
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Ravus]
#3385958 - 11/19/04 06:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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God is within us. Through love, we cultivate the Living Father within.
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MovingTarget
Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 4,825
Loc: temporary
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: lucid]
#3385959 - 11/19/04 06:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
lucid said:
Quote:
dblaney18 said:
I think it was mainly the Europeans of old that had this cultural taboo which spread to America and elsewhere they colonized. Take the Japanese for instance. In their culture, they even go so far as to have ritual suicide. You can commit suicide if you lost a battle because of something you did. You can even commit suicide to bring shame on someone. In Europe, if someone insulted you, you would challenge them to a duel, and then one or both of you would die. In Japan, if someone insulted you, you could commit suicide and bring shame upon the insulter. Quite frankly this strikes me as being largely more effective (not to say that I really think suicide is a GOOD thing!). However, they also experience less guilt. If someone commits suicide, then there is a sadness, but nothing like in the western hemisphere, where many people who knew the person who commited suicide would feel some personal responsibility.
Assuming I remember any of my history.
very interesting, I wasn't aware of this. Any Japanese folks
out there care to elaborate ? or anyone who knows more about
this ?
They slice open their stomach and flip their guts out, then someone cuts their head off from behind. Thats the proper way to do it, how i was taught anyway. I'm not japanese btw.
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Edited by MovingTarget (11/19/04 06:53 PM)
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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What I mean about hate is the opposite of God that's all
No personal attacks here.............Sorry
You nay be right about Hell is just non-existent. That makes sense. Because to be without God,love is to be nothing.
So maybe Hell is nothing and Heaven is everything. That is how a battery works. The negative terminal gives you nothing while the Positive terminal gives you everything.
You and I probably agree a lot more than we think
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3385977 - 11/19/04 06:57 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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We tend to agree here... Heaven and Hell are more symbols than actual, literal realities.
Frankly, I don't care for an earthly Paradise. I tend to role my eyes when my Muslim friends go on how they cant wait to nail the virgins in Paradise.. I asked one of them once "Wouldn't rather just be with Allah and experience nothing but His love instead?".. he had nothing to say after that.
He later said something about "rewards" and I'm like 
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Ravus]
#3386000 - 11/19/04 07:04 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said:
But without a doubt I don't believe Hell could be eternal, as humans gain more wisdom and compassion as they gain experience, and therefore wouldn't be eternally in this realm of lower consciousness- the greed and hatred and arrogance. The typical view of Hell, by the fundamentalist Muslims and Christians, is ridiculous, and the complete opposite of a completely-loving, all-forgiving and eternally aware Higher Consciousness
There has got to be a etneral place for bad people to go. They cannot be with God. God would be destroyed and all would cease to be.
Without a bad place,Hell, the other side there can be no LOVE. Love is a Choice. That is the key. CHOICE
Jesus said it many many times.
If The grand plan was just to put us all in the same pot of LOVE then where is the Love in that?
If I had a Child that a all costs just plain out hated me and tried to hurt me and did everything I asked it not to. Do I allow him to be with me forever. I don't think so but I still love the child even though the child hates me. If I tell the child " Hey in a few years I am moving to Hawaii and unless you decided to know me and begin to love me your not going.That is the reward for having a loving realationship with me child"
See the child would just laugh at me because he hates me and my ways but I would still love him nonless than the kids going with me.
People going to Hell will be just as happy as the people in heaven. And if you could take a person from Hell and place them in Heavan tehy would scream to go back. They would shory circut just like a battery.
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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JCoke
dream observer
Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland 
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3386026 - 11/19/04 07:10 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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if being in hell is just as good as heaven, than who gives a fuck about choosing one? i'm finding a hard time believing that, hell has got to be bad place.
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hello, your name is life on earth
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"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3386070 - 11/19/04 07:16 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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...this thread is oozing with judgement...
reminds me of a book I once read...
"He had summed up--- he had judged...The
horror!"
"He must meet that truth with his own true stuff---with his own inborn
strength. Principles won't do. Acquisitions, clothes, pretty
rags---rags that would fly off at the first good shake. No; you want a
deliberate belief. An appeal to me in this fiendish row---is
there? Very well; I hear; I admit, but have a voice too, and for good
or evil mine is the voice that can not be silenced"
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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3386085 - 11/19/04 07:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Alot of your ideas though are your own assumptions. Do not be concerned with the salvation of others. It's like when someone famous dies, and someone calls in on Larry King Live and asks if that person was religious...everyone knows what those folks want to know.. "Gee, I wonder if he's saved!".. it's frankly useless and arrogant to no end.
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: JCoke]
#3386099 - 11/19/04 07:20 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah after reading my post I kinda went a little over the top. What I mean is that bad people are bad and want nothing to do with Goodness. And once they make it to hell if you were to plunge them into heaven they would freak out. Just like a shorted battery. It would be painful
Goodness does not understand badness and badness does not understand goodness. You may as a Man understand them both but you choose one or the other.
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 8 days, 6 hours
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Gomp]
#3386105 - 11/19/04 07:20 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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haven't read every post in this thread, but...
it has been discussed many a time previously...
but from those reporting & recording NDEs:
from those who have been rescuscitated following attempted suicide, the incidence of extremely negative psychological states are routinely reported (cf. those who are revived following accidentally or illness-caused NDEs often report the classic "light at the end of the tunnel" & presence of unconditional love & awareness of dear departed gathered 'round, etc. --- see mooney, kubler-ross, etcetcetc...)
of course, NDEs are not death per se (obiously, heh), but data from "flatliners" is worth at least examining, no?
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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 Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3386124 - 11/19/04 07:25 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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You go to Hell! You go to Hell and you Die!
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: gnrm23]
#3386143 - 11/19/04 07:28 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Interesting.. where's Markos when you need him.. this thread needs input. 
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
You go to Hell! You go to Hell and you Die!
Where is Sadamm when I need him
Oh yeah he is slutting with Satan
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3386171 - 11/19/04 07:32 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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he's sitting in a jail cell right now.
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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NO NO NO MAN LOL
I was making a South Park joke
Sadamm and Satan were an item on several shows
Very very funny stuff
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: SUICIDE & HELL !!!!! [Re: Fucknuckle]
#3386196 - 11/19/04 07:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Remember Chris?
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Jealous little bastard
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What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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