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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Questions & Answers [Re: Panoramix]
    #2140998 - 11/27/03 10:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

...outweigh any of your stupid little laws

These are not my laws, but society-at-large. They were designed to protect intellectual property. If everyone violated them at will, most creative people would have no desire to put time and effort into developing such works.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Questions &amp; Answers [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2141006 - 11/27/03 10:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

If you see someone trying out for Cheerleading, whos a lil overweight and not in good shape, but has the willpower and positive attitude to try out for it, are you gonna tell her "hey! you can't do that, you're a frickin fat ass! Get outta here!" ?

Apples and oranges my man. I do fitness training and coach racquetball and always encourage people to do their best and exceed self-imposed limitations. I do NOT however; encourage them to sneek into the health club under the rationalization that the club can "afford" it and it would not bankrupt them; for stealing a service is no different than stealing material goods.


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (11/28/03 12:12 AM)


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Questions &amp; Answers [Re: Swami]
    #2141036 - 11/27/03 10:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"...creative people would have no desire to put time and effort into developing such works."

Uh, you're not creative, are you?  If you're truly creative, no money's necessary.  It's like with you; no one's paying you to post, voicing your opinions in a creative way.  You do it anyway.  And you seem to spend a fair bit of time doing it, too.  Don't tell me you'd like to establish property laws any all the stuff you've written.

Editing for spelling.  :spliff: :stash: What can I say?


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


Edited by Panoramix (11/27/03 10:37 PM)


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Questions &amp; Answers [Re: Swami]
    #2141047 - 11/27/03 10:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:syringe: :spliff: :pill: :bong: :nonono:

yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea yea, YAH!

It's been established that LoF's actions were technically illegal.
:rolleyes:

But lemme just ask you, personally, do you feel that the technical illegality, outweighs the good side of it all? Do you feel he should have not made the post at all? Do you think he did more evil than good?   


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: Panoramix]
    #2141063 - 11/27/03 10:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"So only Buddhists can say what is theft and what isnt? C'mon...a wee bit narrow-minded isnt it? 
Do I detect a cold bitter tone btw? c'mon Swamster..no hard feelings here buddy, it's fun to argue isnt it? Cheers mate."

yes and here's a chapter that relates to this :smile:

We cannot know the Tao itself,
nor see its qualities direct,
but only see by differentiation,
that which it manifests.

Thus, that which is seen as beautiful
is beautiful compared with that
which is seen as lacking beauty;
an action considered skilled
is so considered in comparison
with another, which seems unskilled.

That which a person knows he has
is known to him by that which he does not have,
and that which he considers difficult
seems so because of that which he can do with ease.
One thing seems long by comparison with that
which is, comparatively, short.
One thing is high because another thing is low;
only when sound ceases is quietness known,
and that which leads
is seen to lead only by being followed.
In comparison, the sage,
in harmony with the Tao,
needs no comparisons,
and when he makes them, knows
that comparisons are judgements,
and just as relative to he who makes them,
and to the situation,
as they are to that on which
the judgement has been made.

Through his experience,
the sage becomes aware that all things change,
and that he who seems to lead,
might also, in another situation, follow.
So he does nothing; he neither leads nor follows.
That which he does is neither big nor small;
without intent, it is neither difficult,
nor done with ease.
His task completed, he then lets go of it;
seeking no credit, he cannot be discredited.
Thus, his teaching lasts for ever,
and he is held in high esteem.

to say what is theft and what isn't theft is just a judgement value based on compasisons of what we view as what is and what isn't. 
 
 


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: kaiowas]
    #2141142 - 11/27/03 11:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Is that taken from the Tao Te Ching? What translation's that?

And that wasn't me who said that, right? 'Cause I don't remember saying that.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Posts: 5,501
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: Panoramix]
    #2141157 - 11/27/03 11:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I never said you said that.  ahhh yes scrolling up i see that I did reply to your message, see my comp is pissed at me right now.  hehe


the translation is by stan rosenthal.  it's not the only one I've read of course, but it was the one that was first accessable to me at the time I was posting :wink:.

I like the tao though I don't consider myself a total "follower" of its teachings. but yeah :smile: 


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: kaiowas]
    #2141275 - 11/28/03 12:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I read a couple that are really good.

The Classic of the Way and Virtue: A New Translation of the Tao-te Ching of LaoZi as INTERPRETED by Wang Bi

The Caps are mine. Interpolations or Interpretations are generally better than translations. And 'The New Lao Tzu: A Contemporary Tao Te Ching by Ray Grigg is more or less shit.

A little bit I did like in the 'Question of Authorship' bit he tacked on the end of it...

"With no solid evidence to support the existance of a Lao Tzu, his authenticity as a real historical character is extremely doubtful. The consequences of this doubt condenses into 3 questions. If there was no Lao Tzu, then who wrote the work attributed to him? If there was no author, then who collected, organized and edited the source material into its existing form?... All but the most fastidious scholars can dismiss the first question with relative ease. If the [Tao Te Ching](for some reason he calls it the Lao Tzu) was not written by Lao Tzu then it was written by someone else with a different name. That person unknown, but for convenience can be called Lao Tzu."


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Questions &amp; Answers [Re: Panoramix]
    #2141281 - 11/28/03 12:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

If you're truly creative, no money's necessary.
Oh really? Creative people do not need to have their basic needs met and be paid like non-creative people? Where do you come up with this?

It's like with you; no one's paying you to post, voicing your opinions in a creative way. You do it anyway.
This is voluntary and I know ahead of time that it is in the public domain.

Don't tell me you'd like to establish property laws any all the stuff you've written.
I am putting heart and soul into some books that I will publish some day and expect to be fairly renumerated for my efforts.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTaquito
Feed your head!
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Registered: 09/14/03
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Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Questions &amp; Answers [Re: Swami]
    #2141284 - 11/28/03 12:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

if you dont agree with the law, you have every right to break it :spliff: 


--------------------


"Me and a thousand ranking cops from all over America. Why not? Move confidently into their midst."

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."

“I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!”
-Dr. Seuss


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 16 years, 27 days
Re: Questions & Answers [Re: Swami]
    #2141293 - 11/28/03 12:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If everyone violated them at will, most creative people would have no desire to put time and effort into developing such works.




I'm gonna second what somebody else allready stated. Most people that create things are in it because it brings them some kind of joy. I don't think Einstein came up with Relativity because of monetary gain.

And where should intellectual property end? Should I have to pay the estate of Issac Newton when I use his laws or Dali when I make a printed copy of one of his paintings?

Even if intellectual property didn't exist,I still think a lot of people would fairly compensate people for their work.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (11/28/03 12:28 AM)


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: monoamine]
    #2141324 - 11/28/03 12:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I agree, I seriously doubt you will fail to be fairly renumerated for your efforts.  You seem like a pretty sharp kid :wink:
If you ask me, we should get rid of the managerial class (as it currently exists), nationalize the capital that would free up and put it towards renumerating individuals who make anything deemed to be art. 


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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Invisiblemedicinebag
Hunting
Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: Questions & Answers [Re: Panoramix]
    #2141445 - 11/28/03 02:14 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)


Swami,

Dude, :grin:

  You know it's not Copyright law/infringment, it's a relay of words.  Maybe, if LoF was trying to make a buck on it, I'd see your point. I see how it works, I know your magick now.  MuBahahahhahah. 


Lord of Fungus,

  Don't let Swami use his Magick on you :crazy2:.  He knows how to use Words in such a way they will blind you.  :mad2: It's a trick/magick.  :wink: A play, on words.  Words you typed are now your words.  You can't expect Swami to act any other way.  I already copied them on Word, so now, their my words. My own little words. Thanks LoF.  :lol:

  If what Sylvia Browne is stating through Francinine is Truth, How can Truth be copyrighted????


Edited by medicinebag (11/28/03 02:18 AM)


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: medicinebag]
    #2141462 - 11/28/03 02:29 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Whoa!  Nice point at the end! 
Hold on minute...  :bong:

Trippy, man.  :smirk: :smirk: :smirk:


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Questions & Answers [Re: Panoramix]
    #2141761 - 11/28/03 10:02 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Is that taken from the Tao Te Ching? What translation's that?

There are far better translations out there, but as kaiowas said, he grabbed that one for expediency. I have an awesome translation, but a friend has borrowed the book. When she returns it, I will probably scan it and post it. Well..sections of it as least. I don't want Swami on my ass, heh!

Btw, I agree with Swami on the copyright aspect, but on the other hand I'm glad the material was posted. Does that make me a hypocrite? No, I was one already.  :lol:


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: medicinebag]
    #2141777 - 11/28/03 10:17 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe, if LoF was trying to make a buck on it, I'd see your point.

It is not a point (an opinion), but a fact. This is about the tenth irrelevant argument. If I steal your car, but do not resell it then it is OK? There is no trick of words here.

Theft is taking something (material, property, or service) not DIRECTLY OFFERED to you by the owner. Doesn't get any simpler. Once again, you "spiritual" types amaze me.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: Swami]
    #2141791 - 11/28/03 10:28 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I OWN the book, its MY property, and the material IN the book is TRUTH, and I directly OFFER it to my buddies.

Truth can't be copyrighted :grin: :wink:

You still avoid certain questions. You have yet to retort to Alan Stone's Nail-hitting post, and you haven't responded to my question:
Quote:


But lemme just ask you, personally, do you feel that the technical illegality, outweighs the good side of it all? Do you feel he should have not made the post at all? Do you think he did more evil than good? 






--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2141837 - 11/28/03 11:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Truth can't be copyrighted.
Arrangements of words can indeed be copyrighted.

You still avoid certain questions. You have yet to retort to Alan Stone's Nail-hitting post, and you haven't responded to my question:
It was hardly "nail-hitting, but was yet one more rationalization for theft - and there are infinite ones for the clever thief.

But lemme just ask you, personally, do you feel that the technical illegality, outweighs the good side of it all? Do you feel he should have not made the post at all? Do you think he did more evil than good?
He did evil to the creator of the work. Hitler and other dictators have used the well-worn "the end justifies the means" argument. He was "doing good" for Germans and "not-so-good" for neighboring countries. This is a standard egocentric ploy.

Someone who breaks into your house because his children are starving is "doing good" for his kids, though you may feel differently.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: Swami]
    #2141842 - 11/28/03 11:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You're still avoiding the question. You've already established that you think what he did was WRONG.

Give us a STRAIGHT answer, please.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Questions & Answers [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2141933 - 11/28/03 12:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"Someone who breaks into your house because his children are starving
is 'doing good' for his kids, though you may feel differently."

Fuck, I'd give the fellow who broke into my house because his children were starving a loaf of bread and a pint of beer for his trouble.  :tongue2:

And don't tell me how I feel, jackass.  :smirk: :smirk: :smirk:


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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