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Anonymous

The question no one can answer
    #2918287 - 07/23/04 12:26 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What is the origin of the energy contained within the singularity that the 'big bang' resulted from?



...................................

All religious affiliation and scientific adherence fly out the window on this one. Have a nice day.


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Offlinedaba
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: ]
    #2918321 - 07/23/04 12:30 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That was the first question that came to my mind when I was first introduced to the Big Bang theory. There have been plenty of articles written on it; scour the internet.


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Onlinedeff
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: ]
    #2918383 - 07/23/04 12:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well, assuming first-off that the theory is true... and then the assumption that nothing exists or has existed outside of our known and accepted unknown perception of universal energy (ie- matter and force). The answer could be an infinite array of is-ness (universes) connected via pores, or wormholes, which innoculated what we percieved to be the first burst of energy in our known universe. Add a few billion years to the mix and the relative size and density of this energy has spread out, much the same as trends in evolution and exponential growth observed by us. But basically, yeah it can't be proven at this point, and a problem I think is that people are thinking of time too linearly, when linear time is only existant perceptually and not objectively. If it did result from absolute nothingness, than that would imply an infinite nothingness before, somehow initiaitng the first cause the start the chaotic multiplyling and complication of the nothingness. Or maybe god farted.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: deff]
    #2918502 - 07/23/04 12:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

this is no better than a religeous debate.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: BleaK]
    #2918527 - 07/23/04 12:57 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
this is no better than a religeous debate.




Space-time happened/banged when God snapped from His lonely solitude.  :wink:


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Zahid]
    #2918552 - 07/23/04 01:00 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Quote:

BleaK said:
this is no better than a religeous debate.




Space-time happened/banged when God snapped from His lonely solitude.  :wink:




and of course god ISNT part of that space time....


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Offlineevilchipmunk
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: deff]
    #2918553 - 07/23/04 01:01 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
Or maybe god farted.



:rotfl:


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: BleaK]
    #2918560 - 07/23/04 01:02 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Sure He is. Otherwise knowing Him wouldn't be possible!


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Zahid]
    #2918570 - 07/23/04 01:04 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
Sure He is. Otherwise knowing Him wouldn't be possible!




*sigh*

do i really need to have this debate?

if he is part of space time. how did he create it?


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: ]
    #2918605 - 07/23/04 01:08 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well there are a couple of the simpler ideas that i find interesting.

One is that the universe is constantly cycling, that is, it expands to a critical point and collapses upon itself into a singularity which forms a new "big bang". That doesnt explain the origin of matter and universal thermodynamics, but the theory would suggest that the true "origin of everything" really has nothing to do with the big bang and we would be looking in the wrong place to begin with.

Another is the mystical point of view that is, basically "if nothing exists, then something exists". Meaning that the only way for nothing to exist would be for its opposite to also exist because of the dualistic nature of our solipsistic universe.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: BleaK]
    #2918615 - 07/23/04 01:10 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The essence of God in unmanifested - His externalized expressions (i.e; life via space time) cannot be seperated from Him.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Zahid]
    #2918632 - 07/23/04 01:12 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
The essence of God in unmanifested - His externalized expressions (i.e; life via space time) cannot be seperated from Him.




i would agree, thus, he did not create them, he is them.


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: BleaK]
    #2918691 - 07/23/04 01:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I agree, for a "god" to exist, there would have to be something else first. This has been a question throughout the ages because nothing can philosophically exist independently of any other "thing" or idea. Its just the way we percieve. Of course we can think about it abstractly but there is no solid foundation. The only way for god to truely be above space/time or be the "creator" is for him/it to BE space/time


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: BleaK]
    #2918695 - 07/23/04 01:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Now you're getting it!

The here-and-now since the dawn of infinitude is a dream; God the dreamer. Like a person dreaming, his manifestation is within him. The Dreamer is within each man, the life of every soul.


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Zahid]
    #2918724 - 07/23/04 01:27 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Then the true god is not the cause of the big bang or the effect but it is empty, perfectly organized space that existed before.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Blue_Apocalypse]
    #2918746 - 07/23/04 01:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

you guys lost me.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Blue_Apocalypse]
    #2918763 - 07/23/04 01:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The Big Bang is a mystical moment - when the Godhead was unable to withstand His unfathomable solitude of the unmanifested. So He imagined duality so that things might know Him and thus become Him.


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Edited by Zahid (07/23/04 09:28 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Blue_Apocalypse]
    #2918795 - 07/23/04 01:41 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm apt to believe in the cyclic universe myself, that after expansion everything collapses again into a singularity. However! I said, the origin of the energy contained within the singularity, not the singularity itself. To say that the universe has always existed in a cyclic form, despite of the possibility of 'eternity' in which there was no beginning, is a cop-out and doesn't reveal the absolute origin or source.

Another is the mystical point of view that is, basically "if nothing exists, then something exists". Meaning that the only way for nothing to exist would be for its opposite to also exist because of the dualistic nature of our solipsistic universe.

Now we're getting somewhere. :wink: But... this would be duality outside of the universe, since nonexistence isn't part of the universe. Is duality a concept independent of the universe? How can this be?

Now I have to balance out all this pseudo-intellectualizing with quality time in OTD...


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Zahid]
    #2918805 - 07/23/04 01:43 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

So the only reason im here is because god needed a toy to play with? Well at least when im dying of cancer i can be happy that my entire existance was the result of the selfish needs of something that portrays itself as perfect. oh, and i was being sarcatic  :wexican:


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Anonymous

Re: The question no one can answer [Re: Zahid]
    #2918812 - 07/23/04 01:44 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm confused. How is your view of God different then from the view of the universe as God? Are you saying part of the universe is God and part of it isn't?


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