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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: krypto2000]
    #25690491 -

krypto2000 said:
That money isn't collected downstream as a tax, it's incorporated into the cost of the goods themselves, but upstream it's being collected to offset the tax. Therefore it id going to tax :shrug:.

As to no negative effects you seem to both admit that they did not adequately look for negative effects yet then contend it's meaningful that they didn't find any. Both things cannot be true.



The gov't spends the collected taxes

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25690508 -

Yeah I know, it helps cover some of the additional debt due to the giving the wealthy tax cuts. What's your point?

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25690531 -

Money spent overseas goes overseas.  Govt money is often spent domestically.  Regardless of tax breaks, deficit spending seems to be here to stay.  That isn't the issue at hand.  We were discussing how increased spending on domestic aluminum can potentially benefit the economy.  One way is through payroll, as we already discussed.  Another is through the tariff revenues themselves, as you just mentioned.  One of the many ways the govt injects money into the domestic economy is also payrolls.

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25690674 -

:whathesaid:      :thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25691080 -

ballsalsa said:
Money spent overseas goes overseas.  Govt money is often spent domestically.  Regardless of tax breaks, deficit spending seems to be here to stay.  That isn't the issue at hand.  We were discussing how increased spending on domestic aluminum can potentially benefit the economy.  One way is through payroll, as we already discussed.  Another is through the tariff revenues themselves, as you just mentioned.  One of the many ways the govt injects money into the domestic economy is also payrolls.



And money spent here from overseas comes here, the tariffs work both ways. The soybean market for instance collapsed. I really feel like you guys are being intentionally disingenuous at this point.

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: koods]
    #25691333 -

koods said:
More morality from Xuls favorite religion

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-illinois-attorney-general-catholic-priest-abuse-20181219-story,amp.html

Quote:
A scathing report from Attorney General Lisa Madigan finds the number of Catholic priests accused of sexual abuse against children in Illinois is much higher than previously acknowledged.

The report said accusations have been leveled against 690 priests, while Catholic officials have publicly identified only 185 clergy with credible allegations against them.



690 priests in just one state. What about the other 499?



690! That is much higher than I would have expected. This is why I made that comment about alter boys. The stigma that the catholic church has quite accurately reflects reality.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: krypto2000] * 3
    #25691486 -

krypto2000 said:
And money spent here from overseas comes here, the tariffs work both ways. The soybean market for instance collapsed. I really feel like you guys are being intentionally disingenuous at this point.



But we have a negative trade deficit, so we're spending a lot more abroad than others are spending on us.  We have more money to spend than other countries do, so it's good to keep that money here.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25691499 -

Fair point, do we have any numbers on how the tariffs have affected the trade deficit?

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: krypto2000] * 2
    #25691555 -

Tariffs help the trade deficit, though America's overall trade deficit has gotten worse for other reasons.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25691622 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Tariffs help the trade deficit, though America's overall trade deficit has gotten worse for other reasons.



Because the existing tariffs are a joke and aren't adjusted for currency movements. It's been a fraud since day one.

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25691757 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Tariffs help the trade deficit, though America's overall trade deficit has gotten worse for other reasons.



That's an interesting article. It also seems to me that raising Tariffs on Chinese imports alone (for certain goods), would only serve to increase the deficit, if those same products are being purchase from other countries (And not American made) for a higher price than their Chinese counterparts.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25691760 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Tariffs help the trade deficit, though America's overall trade deficit has gotten worse for other reasons.



Do you have any evidence they help? Seems like the opposite has happened. Unilateral tariffs may help but we live in the real world where there are two sides and the other side retaliates.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: koods] * 2
    #25691785 -

koods said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Tariffs help the trade deficit, though America's overall trade deficit has gotten worse for other reasons.



Do you have any evidence they help? Seems like the opposite has happened. Unilateral tariffs may help but we live in the real world where there are two sides and the other side retaliates.



In the real world, Tariffs do reduce trade deficits, as long as they are imposed on all incoming goods. There's really no question about that. American Tariffs force Americans to buy American. Whether they are good for the economy is a different question.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (12/20/18 02:22 PM)

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25691795 -

Bigbadwooof said:
koods said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Tariffs help the trade deficit, though America's overall trade deficit has gotten worse for other reasons.



Do you have any evidence they help? Seems like the opposite has happened. Unilateral tariffs may help but we live in the real world where there are two sides and the other side retaliates.



In the real world, Tariffs do reduce trade deficits, as long as they are imposed on all incoming goods. There's really no question about that. American Tariffs force Americans to buy American. Whether they are good for the economy is a different question.



And retaliatory tariffs force foreign consumers to not buy American.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25692219 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Tariffs help the trade deficit, though America's overall trade deficit has gotten worse for other reasons.



Okay, so back to my previous point then. :shrug:

40x less money is entering the economy than is leaving it in additional taxes, due to deficit spending that tax itself is not effectively going anywhere to offset that, and as you just pointed out the trade deficit isn't even decreasing but growing. How can you conclude thst the tsrrifs have no evidence of a negative impact?

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: krypto2000]
    #25692631 -

I just want to  point out that the deficit spending is itself a form of stealth tax on savings.  The tariff revenues are not subtracted from the economy, even if you really want them to be.  For what its worth, im not in favor of tariffs.  I believe that FARTS would be more effective.

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25692651 -

ballsalsa said:
I just want to  point out that the deficit spending is itself a form of stealth tax on savings.  The tariff revenues are not subtracted from the economy, even if you really want them to be.  For what its worth, im not in favor of tariffs.  I believe that FARTS would be more effective.



Is that an acronym?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25692657 -


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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #25692658 -

Pull his finger


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Mexican Nationalism, protectionism, and Catholicism: what leftists hate [Re: koods]
    #25692660 -

Smell my finger

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