Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Leftist think tank
    #645387 - 05/26/02 12:12 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, so I was just wondering if any republicans, rightists support the growing of plants scheduled under u.s. law. I don't think they do. anyways, alot of people posting here, are very rightist, but yet, hang out at a website dedicating to cultivating mushrooms. So I just wanted to ask you all, why do you hang out here?, and do you hang out at another form, dedicating to rightisim, which I could come hang out, and bother you with leftist views?, just wondering....

P.s. they point is that I would love to see this forum as a leftist think tank, yet we all fail to argue against rightism. I guess us leftists (if any) are all very stupid, uneducated, and obseesed with trivial concepts such as peace, and the cultivation of scheduled substances, it's almost too simple. I mean, I see a president elect supporting the legalization of hemp, world peace, a more charitable and free america, yet alot of people don't support this president of party (Nader of the green party, greenparty.org, you can go to the website for a complete and knowledgabe, unlacking platform, of what the green party represents), they support democrats and republicans alike, who year after year are proved to be corrupt! But, they still belive that politicians are independent from parties, so they trust every knew republican or democrat to come along. So what I am saying is, what democrat or republican politicians support parts of the green party platform? I don't think any, so why do people hang here and advertise, (maybe falsely, without meaning, but yet advertising) republican, democrat, and rightist views. Why can't we all open up to the inner peaceful, charitable green party merit, that we all have inherinted from God. It was'nt long ago, that people roamed the earth, gathering food from naturally occuring trees, fruit trees 50 feet high, and all the other vegatables of the earth without violence, why cannot we have a leftist think tank, in this political forum, without false or "true" arguments supporting politicians who do not support the freedom of growing plants. living without taxation, international aid directly from the U.s. government, etc.

To people not living in the U.s. with the freedom to vote and support green, I apoligize, I hope you have green party organizers flock to your country soon.

Peace

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #645443 - 05/26/02 02:46 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"Yeah, so I was just wondering if any republicans, rightists support the growing of plants scheduled under u.s. law. I don't think they do."

I support the full legalization of Marijuana for medicinal and recreational use and the marketing and taxation of it as tobacoo is currently...it would create/save billions. Mushrooms should be legalized as well but not publicly marketed perhaps. Hard drugs...take them out. I see no use for Herion,Crack, Cocaine, PCP, ...etc. other than killing people. On most every other subject I am VERY conservative...so you thought wrong. I dispise pablem puking liberals ... ...not for their views...but for their seemingly total lack of common sense or ability to rationalize things. I also dislike their boneheaded unmoving views about subjects even when proven wrong. I call liberals Fence Posts...because it's much like arguing with one...a pointless endeavor.

Drugs..growing your own pot..mushrooms..whatever is only one issue of many that have to be taken into consideration. To be "liberal" or support a political party based ONLY upon their support of legalizing drug use is foolish. Would you vote a communist into office if his stance on drugs was lenient? (No I'm not saying the Green party is communist.) I see many posters that seem to have an attitude like this around here. Drugs aren't the only thing in life kids..get educated...get some common sense.


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #645531 - 05/26/02 04:59 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Ah, the old false dichotomy, left versus right. The leftists want to control (mostly) your purse strings and have the government pay for the consequences of your bad decisions (as long as the bad decisions are on the leftists approved list). The rightist want to control (mostly) your behavior in the name of morality, while allowing you relatively free reign in the economic sphere (as long as the economic endeavors are on the rightists approved list). Simple minded people accept this as a given and think that all political philosophies fit somewhere within the "left-right spectrum." Both operate on the underlying assumption that they know what is best for the individual and how to control his behavior. Both believe that they occupy the moral high ground and the powers they desire over the individual will only be used for good. Both are arrogant and conceited in their assumptions.

I've got better dichotomies for you, how about liberty vs. coercion? Or how about freedom vs. state control? Or individuality vs. forced conformity?

Some people reject the initiation of force as a means of acheiving political or social goals, not rightist nor leftists, they are lovers of freedom and peacful existence between their fellow humans. They believe in the dignity of the individual. Once you sanction force against one person to achieve your goals (no matter how noble), you are sanctioning force against all members of society. All people are now potential means to your ends and government becomes an instrument of plunder and violence to be used by any and all who have influence over it.

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #645546 - 05/26/02 05:11 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Let me guess Great Cthulta, you smoke pot, and believe in Violence, you do shrooms, yet belive in Violence. That's all I'm asking, because this is a main republican stance, and a democrat party stance, (if you supported these candidates, and their so called secret, unspoken hope for legalization). When you say conservative, I think anti abortion, pro Christian controlled government, the regulation of only "some" plants, I mean what the fuck. Are you saying you would think to have mushrooms, marijuana legalized, then keep other plants illegal? I think people have the right to put whatever they want in their body. I even belive in the right to suicide, however not the right of murder. And yes, if their were three politicians running for government, two normal parties, and one communist with an open stance on drug legalization, international charity, and peace, I would vote for him. However a drug legalization stance, without the second two platforms, would be stupid. I would vote for a politician for these three things. I think you don't even care about the second two things, because no conservatives really care about these ideals, and definitely not the first one.

P.s, if I am wrong and conservatism means something else besides a fervent biblical preach on anti abortion, isolationism, self government greed, and religious favoring, then tell me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #645553 - 05/26/02 05:18 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I think leftists and rightist mean something else, a little simpler, you may be right, but the main dogma associated, is that leftists wish to see great change, have no self attachment to the current government, (that can be called anti-government, or anti-authoritarium), and the rightist belive the government is right in whatever it does, these people are obsessed with serving the government without any inclination of distrust. They will persecute/lynch leftists for their view, and the leftists sometimes may respond with violent measures themselves. I am not suggesting that leftists are peaceful. Although I am, and a leftist, That is my theory on leftism, rightism. YOu can add on if you wish. I don't quite understand your first argument, that could be said of rightists as well, that was just a low blow to leftists, I mean if that can be said about both philosophies, then it is'nt just a leftist philosophy, which means it is'nt a good descriptive theory about leftism.

liberty vs coercian, check liberty
freedom vs. state control, undecided (freedom has too much dogma in this day)
individualtity vs. state conformity, check individuality, (how this is regulated by polticians I don't know)





Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #645630 - 05/26/02 06:39 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"Let me guess Great Cthulta, you smoke pot, and believe in Violence, you do shrooms, yet belive in Violence. That's all I'm asking, because this is a main republican stance, and a democrat party stance, (if you supported these candidates, and their so called secret, unspoken hope for legalization). "

Ok here goes the "mean old republican" bit..lol. Where does this come from? The wish to have a military that can defend us in times of need? Just WHAT is wrong with that? Reagan brought the Cold War to an end with our military buildup without firing a shot. What's wrong being prepared for the inevitable? ...and violence and wars in the world ARE inevitable in the future whether we are prepared or not...whether you like it or not. Peace is fine. I like peace. Not everyone in the world is satisfied with peace though now or in the forseeable future. I'd like to believe we will be prepared for any eventuality. Also for your information I am a member of neither party republican or democrat. I am a conservative independant. There is good and bad in every political party. I've voted for conservative Democrats(few as they are) and shrugged off liberal minded Republicans. I make up my own mind.

"When you say conservative, I think anti abortion, pro Christian controlled government, the regulation of only "some" plants, I mean what the fuck. Are you saying you would think to have mushrooms, marijuana legalized, then keep other plants illegal? I think people have the right to put whatever they want in their body. I even belive in the right to suicide, however not the right of murder. "

When I hear conservative I think of someone that has common sense...someone that's down to earth..two feet on the ground. You don't have to be a christian fundamentalist to be conservative minded. What other plants are you referring to when you ask "Are you saying you would think to have mushrooms, marijuana legalized, then keep other plants illegal? " ? I'd keep HARD drugs such as herion, PCP, Meth,Crack, Cocaine illegal yes. Those drugs do nothing but destroy lives. MJ, shrooms,and a few others are not hard drugs and should never have been scheduled. MJ mainly. I liken MJ as to having a beer or strong drink without the motor control lose and tendacy for violence.

"I think people have the right to put whatever they want in their body. I even belive in the right to suicide, however not the right of murder."

So let's raise hospital costs and drug related death rates from all these young fools that would get hooked on things like herion...crack..etc..etc..? It would be far worse to legalize these "hard" drugs than MJ. Can you not see this? Do you not think use would go up for "hard" drugs if they were legalized alongside MJ? I am all for personal freedom and privacy, but I don't want some GD crackhead or herion addict breaking into my home looking for dope money.
Some things are better ILLEGAL sorry. About suicide..I believe when someone is in enough pain for so long and has no hope of recovering..they should be let go if they wish it. As for some 18 year old in good health putting a gun to his head..he is MURDERING himself. Which is one thing we agree on ...people shouldn't be allowed to murder.

"And yes, if their were three politicians running for government, two normal parties, and one communist with an open stance on drug legalization, international charity, and peace, I would vote for him. However a drug legalization stance, without the second two platforms, would be stupid. I would vote for a politician for these three things. I think you don't even care about the second two things, because no conservatives really care about these ideals, and definitely not the first one. "

I just thank God that people that think like you aren't a majority..lol . I believe in peace. I also believe in being prepared for war however. War will happen as I said whether you like it or not..whether you WANT it or not. International charity? Hmm I thought we were already the world's welfare fund..lol


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #646068 - 05/26/02 11:10 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

One thing about international charity, is that we provided maybe millions, unless it is a country war torn from us conducting war there, then we provide millions. But for important international charity projects, like wells, desalitinzation plants, (fresh drinking water), power projects, etc, are only loaned half heartedly through the World Bank at extreme rates, or the better option, borrowing from Swiss banks, both options suck! But that is the position these countries are in. We could just provide these services as charity, that is good international policy, it would eliminate terrorims. We sp[end about an 100 billion dollars on internal charity every year, which is more then international aid most years. So how are we being charitable?

Studies have shown in Amsterdam that the legalization of all drugs, has decreased the amount of drug users of hard drugs.

Lastly you can't go kill people in the name of peace, it is'nt peaceful, I suggest you rethink your philosophy, just on that sentence.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #646916 - 05/26/02 09:20 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I am all for personal freedom and privacy, but I don't want some GD crackhead or herion addict breaking into my home looking for dope money.
please, think

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #646967 - 05/26/02 10:45 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Well personally I don't think we should be the world's charity. Why should we? Maybe some other countries should be charitable to us. Providing international charity would NOT eliminate terrorism. The terrorist would eat our food, drink from our wells we dug for them, and still try to kill us. Terrorist are UNSTABLE CRAZY individuals they are not normal guys like you and me...perhaps this is what YOU see, but it is not the case. These assholes(terrorists) are EVIL. You cannot quell terrorism with charity. You can only do that by doing what the terrorist's want...over and over and over and over and over again. It's not a cycle I want to see us get into. There is another option though...KILL them. I am in favor of this. If it's between them dying and them killing innocent men,women, and children then they are the ones that should die. Now don't try to talk to me about supression...how we deserve it.. how we've treated them...because that's plan pinko BULLSHIT.

"Studies have shown in Amsterdam that the legalization of all drugs, has decreased the amount of drug users of hard drugs. "

Where are these specific studies...I would like to see them. In any case that is Amsterdam it is not the U.S. there is no way to tell if it would apply in the United States.

"Lastly you can't go kill people in the name of peace, it is'nt peaceful, I suggest you rethink your philosophy, just on that sentence. "

I never said it was ok to kill people in the name of peace. It is ok to kill people when your defending yourself. It is ok to prevent things by force that will in the future cause war. You cannot have peace when someone else doesn't want it. Why is this so hard to comprehend. Why should we be a nation of bovines ready to be slaughtered by the first war monger to come around? I'm sorry but in the real world sometimes force is the only thing some people understand.


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: raytrace]
    #646977 - 05/26/02 10:55 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"please, think"

About what? Hmm? Perhaps you didn't understand my meaning. My meaning was I'm all for personal freedom , but when it comes to hard drugs that's where my support evaporates. I do not believe in legalizing crack...herion..etc. I believe in the long run doing so would cause 10 times more trouble than eradicating it. Perhaps your referring to if crack and such was legalized they wouldn't have a need to break into my home? ...and why not..when they spend all their hard earned money on crack they are still going to want more whether they legally buy it or illegally steal from and murder someone for it. What's going to stop them from stealing or killing to get it just because it's legal?? Perhaps you don't understand the power some of these hard drugs hold over people. I have seen it..seen friends become thieving worthless bastards over it. I KNOW what it's like. You do not want shit like crack legal(.)


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #646985 - 05/26/02 11:03 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

yeah,, your right man, I don't know what i was thinking.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrfreedom
journeyman
Male
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 80
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #648235 - 05/27/02 03:35 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think a leftist think tank would be a good idea. I don't think a rightist think tank would be a good idea. I think legalizing drugs would be a good thing. I think suicide is a good thing. I think giving money to other countrys is a bad thing. I think a communist politician would not get but one vote, and that from his mom.

Instead of arguing against anybody, which I hate to do, I will just support MY position(s).
If drugs are legal, ALL DRUGS, there will be a surgance of use, similar to what happend in the days when alcohol was illegal. After, the surgance, the use will die off. The mass drug addiction will never show, because repsonsible adults will use and then stop; just like repsponsible adults have a couple of drinks and then stop. I am not worried about those that do become addicted, considering that the price will drop significantly, addicts will be able to get what they need cheap.
I am not worried about hospital bills from addicts. The taxes raised by the new legal drugs will be used to offset the cost in public hospitals. Overdoses will also be reduced, the addicts will now know what and of what quality drugs they get.

Suicide, I like it; it solves problems unequivocally. If suicide were legal, then perhaps, people wouldn't hide it when they had thoughts of suicide. Certainly, if one is dying, or has an affliction that is incurable then suicide could be an avenue to ending the pain. Of course, if doctors could use HEROIN then they could end the patience pain without killing them. I see no reason to limit a persons control of their lives to the extent that we (the government) tells them just how long they have to live.

Of course, the argument exists, of limited government for the good of the public.
But, that is an immoral stance, if you believe in individual freedom, then there is no way to reconcile the stance of involving government in personal choices. Whether that choice what kind of drug to use or when to end my life.
To protect a person from themselves must, necessarily mean, invading the most personal parts of their lives. An intrusion that most would find repugnant, but those same people are MORE than happy to vote for someone to do it for them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #648943 - 05/28/02 02:54 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

nice & clear

except the "I think giving money to other countrys is a bad thing"

can you explain this any further, please

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #649019 - 05/28/02 04:33 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

****leftist think tank***

WOW that's an oxymoron if i've ever seen one

I'm not a right slanted person i tend to lean the libertarian way, however leftests don't support MJ laws any more than republicrates do. Can you name how many pro pot laws the leftists have made in lets say the last 30 years? That's right, just the same as the spinless ones on the right.

****I guess us leftists (if any) are all very stupid, uneducated, and obseesed with trivial concepts such as peace, and the cultivation of scheduled substances, it's almost too simple****

you said it not me

****Nader of the green party, greenparty.org****

The reason people don't support him is because he's a nutjob that would make a terrible president. I do like the idea of legalized MJ but outside of that Nadar has nothing to offer. He's a socialist with an agenda hid in the shadows of MJ legalization.

****Why can't we all open up to the inner peaceful, charitable green party merit***

see above explanation


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #649170 - 05/28/02 06:44 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"I don't think a leftist think tank would be a good idea. I don't think a rightist think tank would be a good idea. I think legalizing drugs would be a good thing. I think suicide is a good thing. I think giving money to other countrys is a bad thing. I think a communist politician would not get but one vote, and that from his mom."

I agree with most everything there. Except legalizing ALL drugs for public recreational consumption and suicide being a good thing.

"If drugs are legal, ALL DRUGS, there will be a surgance of use, similar to what happend in the days when alcohol was illegal. After, the surgance, the use will die off. The mass drug addiction will never show, because repsonsible adults will use and then stop; just like repsponsible adults have a couple of drinks and then stop. "

I hope you know what you say here is your THEORY of what would happen. There is no way to tell if it would actually be the case. So you would legalize Crack and smack for public consumption and hope that the users of these substances would be "responsible adults" and just drop them like a snap? Have you ever tried either of these substances? It takes an incredibly strong will power to come off an addiction to either as well as causing physical withdrawl symptoms.
I do not share your THEORY about hard drug legalization.

"I am not worried about those that do become addicted, considering that the price will drop significantly, addicts will be able to get what they need cheap. "

It won't be cheap enough when they lose they're jobs, families, homes,...and perhaps their very lives to the drug they become slave too. I've seen people spend their entire paycheck on crack and coke...yet STILL want more.

"I am not worried about hospital bills from addicts. The taxes raised by the new legal drugs will be used to offset the cost in public hospitals. Overdoses will also be reduced, the addicts will now know what and of what quality drugs they get."

Umm...why legalize them in the first place if you have to pay it out for medical support for addicts. Waste.
Overdoes would not be reduced because #1: You have far more users. #2: Most hard drug addicts will always get to the "just a little more" point..especially with Herion regardless if it's legal or illegal.

"Suicide, I like it; it solves problems unequivocally. If suicide were legal, then perhaps, people wouldn't hide it when they had thoughts of suicide. Certainly, if one is dying, or has an affliction that is incurable then suicide could be an avenue to ending the pain. Of course, if doctors could use HEROIN then they could end the patience pain without killing them. "

If someone wants to kill themself...REALLY wants it. Then there is nothing that can be done even with suicide illegal they will do it. I think a law legalizing suicide might actually encourage those thinking of it to think of it even more "it's legal now...maybe it isn't so bad" but it IS bad. Bad for their families and bad for them...they are murdering themselves. Anyone in their right sane mind would not support someone killing themself if they were not in extreme physical pain and near death with no hope of recovery. What if Thor the current adminstrator of the Shroomery were to express a real desire to kill himself for something simple..stupid.. like perhaps his girlfriend broke up with him..or anyone else here that's well known and liked. Would the members of this board tell him it's his choice, just stand by and watch passively, or would they try to talk him out of it? It boggles the mind why ANYONE would favor legalizing suicide except in EXTREME medical cases. It's plain idiotic..or just evil lol. The government isn't telling you how long you can live. You could die tommorrow of natural causes..or an accident..a mugging. The government is telling you to not unnaturally end your life because you are MENTALLY ILL. What SANE person wants to kill themselves?
To point out I never said anything about not legalizing some hard drugs for medical use...though I can't see much medical use for cocaine...besides a local anesthesia for dentists lol.

"Of course, the argument exists, of limited government for the good of the public.
But, that is an immoral stance, if you believe in individual freedom, then there is no way to reconcile the stance of involving government in personal choices. Whether that choice what kind of drug to use or when to end my life.
To protect a person from themselves must, necessarily mean, invading the most personal parts of their lives. An intrusion that most would find repugnant, but those same people are MORE than happy to vote for someone to do it for them. "

Oh to hell with it let's just let it ride..start an Anarchy. No laws..you can't tell someone when not to steal..when not to murder...when not to rape...when to murder themselves. Screw it you can't tell people what to do at all without invading their personal lives so why have any laws at all? Amusing view you have. I'm afraid you MUST have a government. You MUST have some laws. Society cannot function properly without government(.)




--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #649199 - 05/28/02 07:09 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Society cannot function properly without government

This simply isn't true. The agents of the state would like us to believe that the government and society are one in the same but many societies throughout history have functioned quite well without a government. I do realize that most contemporary societies are very much controlled by governments but societies predate governments. I recommend that you read "Society Against The State" by Pierrre Clastres.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #649235 - 05/28/02 07:27 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Last year I shared some of these well known views with democrats and republican currently holding office. One famous one Barbara Mikulski polititely spammed me with her views for about a week straight. (she is the leader of the ONDCP) I think she was taking her job too seriously, However a nobody democrat, explained to me, that these types of illegalization laws are out of the hands of freedom of vote, rather they are in the hands of the United Nations, completely out of our power.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #649296 - 05/28/02 08:09 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I hope you don't hold the majority thought of the people, just becuase, I could never act like you do, if I acted like you did towards some of the people who I have met, they would have probraly commited crime against me, or violence, just because they are not mindful.

For example, you meet a friend's cousin who has become homeless, your cousin tells him to come visit you, he comes inside, you only know he is your cousin, but you get to know the guy, you find out he is homeless, you would just kick the guy out your house, even after he knew where you lived. Probraly he might come back to rob you.

Another example, America's food supply is quite large and overproduced, Aghanistan experienses a drought, but because of the trade embargo, a u.n. special team is sent in to enforce the border better, now, our newspapers did advertise this drought, however a charity for the afghanistan victims was'nt even in the paper, so did our government solve the problem the way you did? They did, and see what happens, they did'nt solve it until, it was to their benefit, when they could become powerful off it, at least sell the food, or loan it to them. Now I wish I was rich, but the fact is that I was half starving upon reading this paper walking through a store, eating food while browsing the isles, and munching on the free samples, so I really could'nt do anything. But our government had the money, and food to help these people regardless of the government there. Just two different views on handling the situation. One is the way I would do, hopefully the party I have to vote it, but it did'nt happen, and the only groups you can hold responsible are the ones in office, which happen to be all republicans, democrats, so why don't we replace both of these political parties, with new bigger parties, that way we can be sure we stopped the problem of incompetance in the government. Otherwise we all be killing our cousin's friends's when they come to rob food from you at night. I would'nt feel right after doing that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrfreedom
journeyman
Male
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 80
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #649584 - 05/28/02 11:13 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"giving money to other countrys"
I won't waste your time or bandwidth explaining why government intrusion is immoral. I have already explained it, THOROUGHLY, in another post; just do a search on "tyranny of the majority.
As to the drug issue, I do know what will happen, we did this illegal drug thing before, it was called prohibition. It failed, miserably. What we have learned in the meantime is, that "one cannot legislate the apetites of men" and that EDUCATION is the best tool for reducing drug harm.
Why is it that noone can consider the real issue of drug legalization? I'll tell you why. Because you want me to live by YOUR rules. My taking drugs does you no harm, my stealing from you does; why can't people see that there is a distinct difference between these two actions?
Yes, for your information I started "shooting" cocaine when I was 16. I was/ am a drug addict, I don't see the relevance to the argument though. I worked, finished high school and joined the navy, all under the influence of cocaine.

Of course you don't share my theory of drug legalization, you want me to live by your standards and beliefs. You don't believe in individual liberty. You believe in the "big brother" theory of government.

It is this stance that keeps you from seeing suicide as a MORAL, PERSONAL choice. Should a person seek help when they have thoughts of suicide? OF COURSE. Should a person consider the effect on those that love them? YES.
Should a person, having an sought help, having sought reasurance from their family, be prevented from suicide? NO. It is up to each individual to determine, for themselves, what constitutes quality life. It is not my choice to make; even after all that I have gone through in my life, suicide was never a serious consideration.
There are lots of "sane" people that wish to end their lives all the time. Most because of debilitating disease.

You can't tell people what to do, unless what they are doing could result in direct harm to you or your property. To say that someones drug addiction causes you harm is not valid unless that particular person is stealing from you or in some other way constitutes a DIRECT harm to your libety's.

I believe in laws that keep me safe from stupid people. Like murder being illegal, this is a good thing, however, suicide is not murder; murder is murder.
I don't believe in ANY law that purports to protect ME from MYSELF. If I want to die, or use drugs then I should be educated on the consequences of BOTH. I should be encouraged to seek phsychological help but I should not be held at the end of a gun and told to LIVE THIS WAY or I will go to prison. SHould I be held at the end of a gun and told DON'T HARM OTHERS? HELL YESS. And I'll hold the gun myself.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #650247 - 05/28/02 08:09 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"This simply isn't true. The agents of the state would like us to believe that the government and society are one in the same but many societies throughout history have functioned quite well without a government. I do realize that most contemporary societies are very much controlled by governments but societies predate governments. I recommend that you read "Society Against The State" by Pierrre Clastres."

Yeah really? Name me ONE country that has in the past that functioned efficiently without some type of government...some type of laws or legal system. Maybe your trying to talk about American Indians...or another PRIMITIVE culture/society. I'm afraid even these had tribal laws. Without laws you get people just doing whatever the hell they want with no consequences for their actions..no not everyone but you get those that do. You get this even with laws but at least there is punishment for these fools with a legal system.
Evolve some common sense.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650280 - 05/28/02 08:56 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"I hope you don't hold the majority thought of the people, just becuase, I could never act like you do, if I acted like you did towards some of the people who I have met, they would have probraly commited crime against me, or violence, just because they are not mindful.

For example, you meet a friend's cousin who has become homeless, your cousin tells him to come visit you, he comes inside, you only know he is your cousin, but you get to know the guy, you find out he is homeless, you would just kick the guy out your house, even after he knew where you lived. Probraly he might come back to rob you."

Are you going back to the mean old republican/conservative bit here? I think so. How can you judge me ? How do you know I would turn a friend's cousin away? Which of my views above make you think this? Your partially right I don't cater to career BUMS. I may assist someone though that is just down on their luck and needs a bit to get back on their feet...a fellow American in need. You don't just keep SUCKING off of people though. You get back on your feet and become productive yourself. Why should the fruits of my labor go to those that do not labor at all as a personal choice? Why should I be responsible is I were to turn away even someone that is just down on their luck and not a total career bum? So I am responsible when they come back to rob ME because I turned them out? I THINK NOT THAT IS UTTER COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

About Afghanistan...I do not see what the hell your complaining about. It is should known we have been supplying Afghan refugees with civilian aid throughout this whole affair...partly for your reasons above in fact..so they will not think of us as evil invaders and turn on us. The bags of food are even labeled from the U.S. Just because you don't see it in the news all the time doesn't mean we've stopped. Afghans are also getting U.N. aid.
Another thing.. if I were you I would not trust the news implicitly.The news media in this country is predominately liberal titled if you haven't comprehended that yet. They love to cause contraversy..they enjoy it especially when there's a conservative in the mix. I DISPISE the media for their constant yet subtle way of tilting the news to their liberal viewpoints.

"One is the way I would do, hopefully the party I have to vote it, but it did'nt happen, and the only groups you can hold responsible are the ones in office, which happen to be all republicans, democrats, so why don't we replace both of these political parties, with new bigger parties, that way we can be sure we stopped the problem of incompetance in the government. Otherwise we all be killing our cousin's friends's when they come to rob food from you at night. I would'nt feel right after doing that."

In this country your welcome to start as many political partys as you wish. Now whether people vote for them or not is another thing. If your party's view is so right why didn't Mr. Nader get voted in with a landslide? Everyone's wrong and your right eh? No I don't think so. People look at Nader and the Green party and see what's behind his up front views. They obviously didn't/don't like it.
If our cousin's friend trys to rob from us we are NOT responsible. Your cousin's friend is responsible for his actions regardless what event has influenced his mind to do so. So this "friend" thinks it's "OK" to steal from me because I've kicked him out? What kind of twisted view do you have where people can steal your personal property just because they don't like something you've done/said or you aren't charitable enough to let them stay at your home.
If all Green party members think like you I see another reason why they are so unpopular.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650343 - 05/28/02 10:44 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Basically I have alwasy thought that away towards any american government politician. Basically, because my right since my birth has been taken away. My ancestor's religious tool has been stolen, and propagandized with. Now you cannot watch or hear anything good about native americans, only fake movies displaying indian violence, retired colonels in Hawaii preaching about how the Hawaiian indians were very violent. How am I supposed to believe this, when since birth I have been raised that marijuana is a tool of peace, however none of our leaders use it. So as I entered the internet age, I looked everywhere for my brothers of the faith, and that is when I found the Green Party. I witnessed a speach by Green Party representative Nandor Tzancos, on New Zealand public television, where he promised to smoke two joints a week. Since then, I have had a political party, I saw his dreadlocks, I saw his hemp suit, and I believed everything he said. Not that I don't have my own political views, if you want a trustful platform to analyze what the Green Party is about, then look at their website, if you want my views then look through this forum, as I have created a second memory for myself here, listing all my political agendas, as if one day, a party better then the Green Party can be created by myself. But I see no need.

I think you should review your old news, as I was informed in the Washington Post about this drought in Afghanistan, as I researched all internet information I came upon a conclusion. How if we embargo Afghanistan, and let them starve, as many did, and block the borders from starving people wishing to leave, did we handle the situation right. If I was president, or someone like minded myself were, they would have first created a special afghanistan aid package. One with a secure investment of wells, solar power, and hydroponics systems, a complete farming package maybe valued at 50 million dollars, this could have eliminated all fear of u.s. resentment, (since we did have this money, but did'nt use it towards this purpose) and created a new peace between our two countries. But what we did, was maybe drop food shipments from the air, and plan a coup, assasaniate all political figures, hire mercenaries, and then propagandize about how Afghanistan was preparing armies for terrorist action, when in fact they were creating armies for defense against american mercernaries. Second Bin Laden is not guility in my opinoin, I believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and even then I do not believe in corporal punishment. All evidence I have gathered suggests that the U.S. only now helps, and creates mindless sheep lyke yourself. Who think that the situation in Afghanistan has somehow changed, that it has alwasy been a warzone there for as long as people can remember, you watch the television and you see the news as a movie, you see recent news of Afghanistan, and have no perspective of the long run. It's like all these terrorists are new, and have'nt alwasy been around.


Also, you speak as if you would'nt act towards people as I do, all of us are equal, it matters not if they are friends, family, it matters only that they needed help, obviously as frustated family of assasinated family in Afghanistan took revenge, in the same manner of violence directed towards them, they created a news frenzy of people knowing the situation in Afghanistan, these terrorists completed their goal, to save starving Afghans, so how can we prevent future terrorist attacks, by acting more justly towards are neighbors. Afghanistan still does not have the technology which is available, neither do I , the government does'nt do enough to create projects which guarantee safetey, they feed with a large baby spoon, and tie them to the high chair for weeks at a time. Eventually people will start to think the baby is mentalll retarded, and wonder why it alwasy is angry.

Basically what the world thinks, is who the fuck is George Bush? A guy raised in riches, with family dating back to British royalty, who did Coke, who failed miserably with his Governor position, who cannot speak with conviction or self thought. How can this person be the new leader of the U.S. how can the world trust this person, he lays no part of himself open to the world. He speaks of business, war, and self interest. I don't like him. Even our elections have been publicized worldwide of being a hoax! So he must have been the perpetrator since he won, the motive is too simple. Obviously bush acts with the full interest of the Republican party, create an agenda creating by private business, for all republicans to become rich off of, this creates a successful party, in the minds of these people. This is not the true purpose of a political party, if I ran a political party, I would'nt allow these actions to take place within it, if they persisted I would leave.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #650348 - 05/28/02 10:53 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"Why is it that noone can consider the real issue of drug legalization? I'll tell you why. Because you want me to live by YOUR rules."

I don't want you to live by my rules. I want you too see that what you are thinking is flawed. Some drugs are USELESS even for recreational use. Their only use in fact is in time killing their users or causing them to lie,cheat,steal,kill...oh and they make the user "feel good" for a little while. Do any of these reason justify legalizing them? Sometimes the bad outweighs the good ...that is the case with most hard drugs. Oh I forgot it doesn't matter to you ...it's your choice no matter what even if you want to stick a gun to your head and end your life for no other reason than it's "your right".

"My taking drugs does you no harm, my stealing from you does; why can't people see that there is a distinct difference between these two actions?"

Your taking hard drugs does me no harm aye.Your stealing from me or attacking me does aye. Why can't people see the difference? We do . Drug use and thievery are 2 different acts, but it doesn't change the fact that some are influenced by the hard drugs they are on to commit crime. To steal for money to buy more..rob dealers..even kill sometimes if they can aquire it by no other means. This fact relates the two acts. Thus you get my wish for there to be as few crack and smack addicts as possible on the streets and in the public. It boggles my mind people like you think we should legalize these substances just for the sake of being able to do it if we want. These are life destroying substances that have no use beyond the medical field.

"Yes, for your information I started "shooting" cocaine when I was 16. I was/ am a drug addict, I don't see the relevance to the argument though. I worked, finished high school and joined the navy, all under the influence of cocaine."

Now I think I see clearly why you argue for the legalization of hard drugs. Hidden behind your "It's our right to do what the hell we want." stance is the desire to legally consume and aquire your hard drug of choice(coke) more easily so you can better destroy your life while satiating the drug's hold on you.

"Of course you don't share my theory of drug legalization, you want me to live by your standards and beliefs. You don't believe in individual liberty. You believe in the "big brother" theory of government."

I believe strongly in individual libery. I dispise the "Big Brother" concept of government, but at the same time I realize we must have some laws and government. Without them there is anarchy and chaos. By your reasoning citizens should be allowed to do what the hell they want no matter what it is. What if I wanted exercise my civil liberties and go out and start murdering people..or go out and rob banks..or dance in the streets naked...take a dump on the sidewalk ...etc ...etc ..etc ..etc..? Can't you see some things must be agains't the laws of the land? Hard drugs go into the category of things that are unanimously bad..like murder. They kill people. They cause crime whether it's illegal or legal. They are NOT for recreational use. It's simple logic.

"Should a person, having an sought help, having sought reasurance from their family, be prevented from suicide? NO. It is up to each individual to determine, for themselves, what constitutes quality life. It is not my choice to make; even after all that I have gone through in my life, suicide was never a serious consideration.
There are lots of "sane" people that wish to end their lives all the time. Most because of debilitating disease."

When some 18 year old physically healthy kid loses his girlfriend and thinks his quality of life is so low he wishes to end his life and even after having gotten support and counciling still wishes too...you'd let him do it? If so your logic is definitely flawed and rather STUPID. That kid would be going through emotional trauma nothing more. Do you think emotional trauma constitutes a good reason for suicide? What constitutes a good reason to kill yourself for you? To me it would be enormous physical pain from disease or injury that was incurable by medical means. There are very few exceptions I would allow if it were up to me. Perhaps exceptions like paralyzation cases..especially those from the neck down. To simply allow whatever mentally unstable individual that wishes to to kill themselves is NOT the way to go about it.

"You can't tell people what to do, unless what they are doing could result in direct harm to you or your property. To say that someones drug addiction causes you harm is not valid unless that particular person is stealing from you or in some other way constitutes a DIRECT harm to your libety's."

Ok...I've covered this already above. People's recreational use of these hard drugs DOES cause direct harm to many people's liberty every day....every hour. The vicelike hold many of these hard drugs have over people can make them do just about anything in the right/wrong circumstances. To themselves and to others.

"I believe in laws that keep me safe from stupid people. Like murder being illegal, this is a good thing, however, suicide is not murder; murder is murder.
I don't believe in ANY law that purports to protect ME from MYSELF. If I want to die, or use drugs then I should be educated on the consequences of BOTH. I should be encouraged to seek phsychological help but I should not be held at the end of a gun and told to LIVE THIS WAY or I will go to prison. SHould I be held at the end of a gun and told DON'T HARM OTHERS? HELL YESS. And I'll hold the gun myself. "

Suicide is murder if the individual is not on the last legs of life and cannot physically continue life without extreme physical pain/anguish. Name me one animal species on this entire planet that kills itself voluntary besides human beings..one that commits suicide upon itself. Suicide is not natural. It is generally wrong(.)
Hold the gun on yourself eh? Again how you put yourself reminds me of an anarchist. How can I trust you keep that gun loaded? ..to keep that gun on yourself at all times and fire if you do something wrong? I cannot. I do not know you.
Understand?



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Innvertigo]
    #650355 - 05/28/02 11:11 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

RE: "I'm not a right slanted person i tend to lean the libertarian way, however leftests don't support MJ laws any more than republicrates do. Can you name how many pro pot laws the leftists have made in lets say the last 30 years? That's right, just the same as the spinless ones on the right."




When I lived in your home state I had a dear friend that spoke very much like you. - What was diferent was that my friend and I once agreed to vote for Ralph Nader. - It was simply a protest vote.

Ralph lost. (*sigh*) - lol

But the votes did carry a message that election.

(naturaly we didnt REALLY want to see Ralph Nader as the Prez- we just got pissed about our options)


--------------------
>>Jammer>>

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650357 - 05/28/02 11:12 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

by your logic my faith means nothing to you. In your logic, I have the right to enter any church and arrest the preacher for giving wine to people, wafer crackers, and speaking about an supernatural phenomonan such as is the philosphy of christ, or god. You can't argue that my faith is any worse. All people are equal, thus making all relgions equal. I would never do this to a priest, however politicians do this regularly on mission from the god they speak of.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Jammer]
    #650360 - 05/28/02 11:15 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, we did'nt really want the marijuana reform, we just wanted to let the republican know we wanted it, so they could work on it for us.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650361 - 05/28/02 11:17 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I met a guy one time, who argued that democrat was the way to go, and thought Nader was a good candidate, just that he was'nt going to get the vote. I then explained to him my indian heritage, and then I think we came upon an even decision, that voting towards the best candidate is moral, not the most popular.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650373 - 05/28/02 11:40 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

The main reason that we voted for Nader that year was JOBS. The automotive industry in our town was taking jobs to Mexico faster than people could sign up for food stamps...

It wasnt a Primary election. So it didnt really change much... but it might of helped show Clinton how important the auto industry was in Michigan....

In the end, I dont think Nader votes changed shit.


--------------------
>>Jammer>>

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Jammer]
    #650375 - 05/28/02 11:43 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

25,000 people voted green in Maryland, that's more then the taliban and northern alliance combined, maybe...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650380 - 05/28/02 11:52 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I have American Indian ancestors(Cherokee)...but that doesn't make me like the Green Party .

Afghanistan again eh? I recall seeing our aid to the refugees since the very start of the operations over there. Large amounts of food were deployed.

"If I was president, or someone like minded myself were, they would have first created a special afghanistan aid package. One with a secure investment of wells, solar power, and hydroponics systems, a complete farming package maybe valued at 50 million dollars, this could have eliminated all fear of u.s. resentment, (since we did have this money, but did'nt use it towards this purpose) and created a new peace between our two countries. "

Hmmm ok...BULLSHIT . 50 million wouldn't do SQUAT. We are trying to allow them to do it for themselves...for the most part though we have/are giving them aid. I recall a 1.4 BILLION dollar aid package for Afghanistan that recently passed the in the House of Rep. Is that not enough for you? Is this not (charitable) ENOUGH?
Bin Laden isn't guilty ? Yes he is guilty. Regardless if he was directly responsible for 9/11 he is still a terrorist. All terrorists are guilty. They are shit. They are pond scum. They murder innocent men, women, and children. They should be killed on sight. If it were me they would die by slow excruciating torture .
You are the mindless sheep to me with no perspective of long or short run. Those terrorist were there..they were there when good Billy Clinton was in the office of Precidency. Ole liberal Billy didn't do squat when we were attacked back then which left us open to future pain.

", these terrorists completed their goal, to save starving Afghans, so how can we prevent future terrorist attacks, by acting more justly towards are neighbors. Afghanistan still does not have the technology which is available, neither do I , the government does'nt do enough to create projects which guarantee safetey, they feed with a large baby spoon, and tie them to the high chair for weeks at a time. Eventually people will start to think the baby is mentalll retarded, and wonder why it alwasy is angry."

SO you think the terrorists goal was to save starving Afghanistan ? Let me ask you something...WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? The terrorists' GOALS are as they have always been . To cause terror to get their way. To kill innocents to create terror. Bin Laden's GOAL was to cause terror to rid Saudi Arabia of U.S. presence. He didn't like infidels tresspasing on his holy ground where their profit supposedly walked...just WALKED. We aren't destroying temples..harrassing their citizens..murdering them. He just doesn't want us walking around where his prophet walked. That's his "juste" cause not to feed starving Afghanistan...where the hell do you get that B.S. anyway? He's a cold blooded murderer not some G.D. Bin Ladin Hood hero of Afghanistan...HE ISN'T EVEN AFGHANNY he is SAUDI.
What gives you the idea we should help every little country in the world(and we DO do our part)? We simply COULD NOT support every poor little country in this world..and I would not wish us too. It's better they prosper on their own if they can. Many times it's their own governments that cause their poverty.

On your last paragraph I'm not even going to quote you. It's liberal pablem. You hold it agains't him for him being rich from birth..you think republicans are "for the rich". You think republicans are big bad meanys. I've heard all this before and it's a pointless endeavor to try and argue with you on this I know, Mr. Fencepost.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650402 - 05/29/02 12:21 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"by your logic my faith means nothing to you. In your logic, I have the right to enter any church and arrest the preacher for giving wine to people, wafer crackers, and speaking about an supernatural phenomonan such as is the philosphy of christ, or god. You can't argue that my faith is any worse. All people are equal, thus making all relgions equal. I would never do this to a priest, however politicians do this regularly on mission from the god they speak of."

Umm...what? I do not question your faith anywhere in this thread. Men and women may hold whatever faiths they wish.
How in my logic could you go into a church and arrest people for drinking wine? How? People are all equal yes. This doesn't mean all religions are equal..what are you using to quantify religion? Worshipper numbers? Historical documents? Faith? You would never do what as a priest? Try to persaude people to your religion? What religion doesn't do this? Do they not teach their knowledge of it? Write it down for others to read about? Oh I GET IT now. Your back to the republicans/conservatives are mean old religous right wing bastards out to force The Lard Gawd down your throat. Which is it are we all rich silver boot in our mouth people or are we all religious "Praise the Lard" rednecks? I am neither and most republicans and conservatives are not either.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650410 - 05/29/02 12:27 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

The green party has consistently shown support for Indian rights, including marijuana legalization. A tool used by my ancestors, and passed down through time. You may not have recieved this gift of knowledge. The facts are all there, everyone awnsers to a different god for guidance. so we will all not see the situation the same. whenever I refer of aid to Afghanistan I refer to the time of it when in need, which was about 7 months before 9/11. Also throughout time thousands have died from these same types of droughts, Probraly caused because they don't have water, easily solar powered wells are the most economical, and beneficial to create wells, and irrigation, the hydroponic systems I mention are the new state of the art econmical research ones displayed for construction purchase or research that are based in New Zealand, they compose of a green house, and plumbing, but need hydroponic nutrient to work. They are quite economically cheap, even cheaper then buying food from the u.s. and sending it there. However you ever seen a corrupt man, donate to his own charity, you know why? Becasue he then gets the money right back, but in this case it is our tax dollars being donated, and Bush gets it right back, with relatvie bribes occuring. Why are'nt these simple projects being instituted with all that money? Because that would put power in the hands of the people.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650435 - 05/29/02 12:57 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"The green party has consistently shown support for Indian rights, including marijuana legalization. A tool used by my ancestors, and passed down through time. You may not have recieved this gift of knowledge. The facts are all there, everyone awnsers to a different god for guidance. "

I am well aware the Green Party favors MJ legalization. That's not the only issue I take into account however. The Green Party supporting that ONE issue and that issue being just ONE I support of many other ideals doesn't make me want to vote for the Green Party.

"whenever I refer of aid to Afghanistan I refer to the time of it when in need, which was about 7 months before 9/11. Also throughout time thousands have died from these same types of droughts, Probraly caused because they don't have water, easily solar powered wells are the most economical, and beneficial to create wells, and irrigation, the hydroponic systems I mention are the new state of the art econmical research ones displayed for construction purchase or research that are based in New Zealand, they compose of a green house, and plumbing, but need hydroponic nutrient to work."

As I said before ...we cannot support every poor country in the world it is not economically feasible. Also it's best if they can reform and do these things by themselves. What makes you think we have to be the world's welfare fund? I'm curious.

"However you ever seen a corrupt man, donate to his own charity, you know why? Becasue he then gets the money right back, but in this case it is our tax dollars being donated, and Bush gets it right back, with relatvie bribes occuring. Why are'nt these simple projects being instituted with all that money? Because that would put power in the hands of the people."

Umm when a citizen of the U.S. donates to a charity he may make it tax deductable yes. When the U.S. aids a foreign nation the U.S. cannot claim tax deductability for itself...lol. That money will be gone.
Power to the people maaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnn. Give me a break. Defect to China then come back here(if you can escape) and talk about power to the people. You'll realize just how much power you really have in the good ole USA.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650439 - 05/29/02 01:03 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I should defect to China, because I think we should give international aid, why don't you defect to china, and learn about international aid, while you are being held hostage there for food from your american familly.

Yes, our government has the means and ways of creating these types of stable living conditions, why we don't do it, is another question, maybe it is because they all have meat slow down amino acids running through their system 247, disabling them from rational tempered thought.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650445 - 05/29/02 01:08 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"world's welfare fund" like I said before, sometimes it's hard for an extaliban to find a job, should we disacknowledge his repentence, or do you not have one shread of spirituality about you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650457 - 05/29/02 01:19 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"Yeah, I should defect to China, because I think we should give international aid, why don't you defect to china, and learn about international aid, while you are being held hostage there for food from your american familly."

Not a chance in hell. China is a communist government which is why I suggested you go there. China is not severely poverty stricken. Me nor you would be held hostage for food because our government hasn't given china foreign aid. We would simple be supressed..limited...watched..killed and murdered or at the least imprisoned if we spoke out one word agains't the government...or just didn't do what they told us to do. China already has a true Big Brother government.

"Yes, our government has the means and ways of creating these types of stable living conditions, why we don't do it, is another question, maybe it is because they all have meat slow down amino acids running through their system 247, disabling them from rational tempered thought. "

No we do not have the means to help every single country even if we are the sole Superpower.
So....your a bovine(my word for vegans) eh? If my mother feeding me meat as a child is what gave me my clear head then I thank God for it. Excuse me now I have to get some slow down meat amino acids running through my system..mmmm cooked FLESH.
Don't you vegans get gasey?



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650459 - 05/29/02 01:22 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

rather meat eaters get gasey, because they have excess gas in their system, I never get gas, however many eating friends do, if you are now saying that China is better then countries in Africa, when it is communist, you are directly telling me that communism can work better then democracy. Unless their are poorer countries then africa, which we killed and enslaved poeple since the beginnning of time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650470 - 05/29/02 01:35 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

China isn't better than countries in Africa..or any other country. Communism does work to a point until it has to try to expand, BUT would you like to put up with a TRUE Big Brother? ..a Big Brother that would KILL YOU or imprision you for life if you got in his way? Be thankfull you live where you do and were not born into such an environment.

"Unless their are poorer countries then africa, which we killed and enslaved poeple since the beginnning of time. "

Why bring this up? Are we responsible for Africa's poverty through LONG past slavery? NO. Africans killed and enslaved their OWN people of different tribes long before white man stepped foot on the continent. Once white man did step foot there some African tribes would sell captured tribesman from rival tribes into slavery. White slavers nor AFRICAN slavers are innocent when it comes to the "killing and enslaving of people in Africa since the beginning of time". This is history..no real relevance in this thread, but your the one that brought it up.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650476 - 05/29/02 01:38 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

dude I love the way you explain that, coming from the textbooks of the white man who enslaved them.

If someone ever imprisoned me for speaking out, I would probraly do it anyways, that's just the kind of guy I am. YOu get the chance to die on the cross like Jesus, and your're going to pass it up, what the fuck..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #650480 - 05/29/02 01:45 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"dude I love the way you explain that, coming from the textbooks of the white man who enslaved them."

Actually it's not well taught in schools. It's not politically correct to do so. It is FACT though. Look it up for yourself in history.

"If someone ever imprisoned me for speaking out, I would probraly do it anyways, that's just the kind of guy I am. YOu get the chance to die on the cross like Jesus, and your're going to pass it up, what the fuck.."

Even Jesus asked the burden be lifted from him. He asked to not have to die on the cross..to not carry the burden of his fate. Your not going to be crucified in the U.S. and you should be thankfull you live in as free a society as we have now. You CAN speak out...about any damn thing you want. Be thankfull for it.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650611 - 05/29/02 05:05 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Name me ONE country that has in the past that functioned efficiently without some type of government...some type of laws or legal system. Maybe your trying to talk about American Indians...or another PRIMITIVE culture/society. I'm afraid even these had tribal laws

Funny, your original post stated,
I'm afraid you MUST have a government. You MUST have some laws. Society cannot function properly without government(.)

You did not state "country", you stated "society." No where did you state whether or not the society has to avoid conforming with your opinion of what constitutes "PRIMITIVE." There have been (and may still be) some societies without governments that functioned perfectly well until governments came and destroyed them. Such societies do/did not have an organization that had a monopoly on the use of force, that means no government. They do/did however have, strong societal norms and methods for maintaining peace within their ranks. To have a country requires a government, so to give of an example of a country without a government would not be possible.

Evolve some common sense

Perhaps I should evolve the ability to read minds because you lack the common sense to state what you mean. It really makes no sense to insult others when they properly comprehend your words as written and you did not write what you really meant to say.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrfreedom
journeyman
Male
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 80
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650624 - 05/29/02 05:13 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

My thinking is NOT flawed. My arguments are well supported and fundamentaly logical. I resent your assertion that I want drugs legal for the purpose of using cocaine. I was clean and sober for 9 years, 4 months and 6 days; at that point I started experimenting with shrooms. I also smoke a little weed, it helps with the nausea of large shroom doses. My relationship with other drugs is a moot point. I don't use any other drugs. Well, I did have a beer while watching the super bowl this year, but no other drugs than that which I have stated.

Yes, recreational drugs are just that; for recreation. Surely, even you can admit that alcohol, is addictive (not as addictive as heroin or NICOTINE) and long term use leads to bad/criminal behavior. Try to make a distinction between the lives torn apart by alcohol, and the lives torn apart by another drug, and you will see that the main difference is in the price and availability. This is because some drugs are illegal. I don't suggest that drugs don't harm the individual that uses them; they do/can. What I do suggest is that the crimes that you speak of would dissapear overnight if drugs were legalized.

You are not excercising any rationality in your argument. I have, on three occasions, pointed out that their is a difference between an act, murder, that causes harm to another and an act, shooting heroin, that causes harm to an individual.

You say that your despise big brother government, yet you insist that it is ok to tell people what to do with their lives and bodys. How can you reconcile these to stances? Either you believe in individual liberty and the pursuit of happiness(even if that happiness is just to "feel good" for a few hours) or you believe in legislating how a person should live.

I think that an 18 year old commiting suicide is tragic. After counseling, perhaps pharmacutical drug therapy and the support of his family, maybe he won't do it. But WHY should it be illegal? On what basis to you think we should interfer further? Your answer can ONLY be to PROTECT HIM FROM HIMSELF.

For me, since you asked, and I have a living will to this effect, noone turns off the machines, the doctors may consider ANY surgery that may help if I am unable to make that decision for myself; in short, until I am stiff and cold, I will fight to take another breath.

Don't call me stupid, don't dis-respect me concerning aspects of my life that are
1. irrelevant to the argument at hand
2. none of your business
3. simply rude in any setting.
I think that I have been respectful of your person, while, addmitedly disagreeing with your stance. I demand the same courtesy from you.

Oh yeah, animal suicides?
LEMMINGS.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 5 days
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #650633 - 05/29/02 05:17 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

You have made an excellent post Mrfreedom but I have to inform you that Lemmings do not commit suicide...that is just a myth.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #650809 - 05/29/02 07:38 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"You did not state "country", you stated "society." No where did you state whether or not the society has to avoid conforming with your opinion of what constitutes "PRIMITIVE." There have been (and may still be) some societies without governments that functioned perfectly well until governments came and destroyed them. "

Name a few.


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650932 - 05/29/02 09:16 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

A few examples of societies without a government (an organization which exercises a monopoly on the use of force):
1) Iceland from about 930 to1262.
2) The Iroquois; the Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas, Cayugas, Senecas and the Tuscaroras.
3) The Hurons.
4) The Kapuaka of New Guinea.
5) The Tupi-Guarani of South America.

It is self evident that the development of societies predates the creation of government. Is that concept so hard to accept?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrfreedom
journeyman
Male
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 80
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650942 - 05/29/02 09:21 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, I admit it, I just popped of with lemmings from the top of my head. Very bad thing to do. Lemming suicide is a myth. I was unable to find an animal that commits suicide without exigent circumstances. One such being a termite. They can and do explode their bodys in battle. There was also reference to beaching whales, but seemed inconclusive. But, like I said that is in consideration of their circumstances.

" Lemming suicide is fiction. Contrary to popular belief, lemmings do not periodically hurl themselves off of cliffs and into the sea. Cyclical explosions in population do occasionally induce lemmings to attempt to migrate to areas of lesser population density. When such a migration occurs, some lemmings die by falling over cliffs or drowning in lakes or rivers. These deaths are not deliberate "suicide" attempts, however, but accidental deaths resulting from the lemmings' venturing into unfamiliar territories and being crowded and pushed over dangerous ledges. In fact, when the competition for food, space, or mates becomes too intense, lemmings are much more likely to kill each other than to kill themselves. "

On the other hand, I aslo wasn't able to find an animal that could, or would discuss politics or philosophy. Nor was I able to find another animal that could build a car, or an airplane or a complex philosophical argument. I fail to see the relevance, of bringing animals into the argument of suicide. If discussing animals were relevant then I think a strong case could be made for murder; I just had a hamburger.

GC. I don't have a problem with your views, you are entitled to have them, whatever they are. But, I see the views you expressed as the ultimate expression of the evil that surrounds the laws concerning drugs and the WOD's in particular. This is NOT a personal attack on you, I don't know you. You and I could probably share a spliff over a campfire and discuss the full nature of our political system without ever raising our voices. What this is, fairly, is an attack on those like you.

Those persons with some capacity for rational thought. Those without religious rationalizations for their belief systems. I can forgive a religous knothead for their silliness, irrational thought processes and even their immoral meddeling in my personal life. But what do I do with people like you?

You and people like you are rational, you admit that weed being illegal is foolish and detrimental to life in the US. But, people like you are an impossible conflict. When you support legalization of a certain drug but not others, you admit on one hand that the WOD's is foolish, that it punishes people, NOT for what they do to others, but what they do to themselves. Yet, you insist that you have to be the one to decide WHAT it is that I may or may not do with or to my body. You don't want to see people hurt themselves, while an admirable trait, it begs the question; who decides for me, how I will live or die?(again, I am just writing this in the first person; I don't mean JUST you but the mind set shared by others as well)

This, wholly natural concern for our fellow man, is a trait that I share, believe it or not. What you and others like you suggest, is, that while you support individual liberty, you don't respect me enough to allow me to live as I see fit; in whatever capacity that may be. I don't fear the religous person, I could, once upon a time, just tell them that I don't believe the way they do and that would be that. I would be left alone to account for my "sins". But, you and others like you, know better, you know that there is a component of independence that is required to live a fullfiling life.

People that share this system of invasive politics are purponents of big brother government. Surely you can see this. You tell me that you loath big brother government but support the attack of, otherwise peacful people, because they like a drug that you don't. By this insistance, you are FORCING them to live by YOUR standards, and when you do it by legislation then you ARE supporting big brother government.

The slippery slope arguments you give are just examples of the nature of your fallacy. The example I am refering to is the one about the 18 year old that commits suicide because his girlfriend left him. This is a "slippery slope argument", towit, that one would let others engage in this action to their deteriment leads necessarily to ending the rights of ALL who would engage in this action.

By the use of the slippery slope arguement are ALL personal freedoms curtailed. Not because the masses engage in rational recreational drug use, nor because extremely ill people choose to end their lives with some measure of dignity, but because the minute few act irresponsibly and that is what this argument boils down to. Your mind set, thoughts, beliefs, call them what you will, allows you, in your arguments, to remove from ALL adults the reason, right and RESPONSIBILITY, that goes along with liberty.

I don't think you see this, that you replace my libertys with your belief system. Further, that you think it is ok to do this and that you do so with a slippery slope argument. This is the very thing that makes you and those that think like you so dangerous. It is with this, "I'll let you be free but only with certain things; and I get to pick those things" that allowed religous groups their unprecedented ability to enact laws limiting personal freedoms on the basis of sin and not on harm to others. I find this non-religous mind set that you and many others share MORE dangerous than even Jerry Falwell.

At least I can argue with Jerrry that because I don't share his belief in the bible that I have a right to live as I see fit. I can't argue this with you, you reject my beliefs not on a religous basis, but on the basis that, YOU KNOW BETTER THAN ME, HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE.


I do share your concern of my fellow man. I didn't learn CPR so I could use it on myself. I just find your arguments bandied about in the political forum and the media every day. What one CANNOT argue from a religous point, one may argue from a point of protecting the individual. This is wrong, it has gone way to far and, admittedly, I find no way to "fall back from the precepice". There are laws in place to allow medical use of marijuana but the people that believe like you, politicians mostly, who are afraid to come right out and say "it's a sin", will GLADLY say that they are only doing it because they love me. And then they throw my ass in prison for a decade, not because I hurt someone, but because I grew a plant in my closet.

I allow that no matter what my arguments to the contrary, that I will never,ever change your mind on any of these issues. I don't agree to disagree, that is giving up, and, since I am still breathing I can't give up.
I will however, leave this particular topic. I see no point in further debate at this time, and I feel that the original topic has gotten lost in our little tit for tat debate.

However,I reserve the right to engage in other topics, though substantialy outnumbered I will continue in my quest for freedom, for me and others like me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #650973 - 05/29/02 09:35 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"My thinking is NOT flawed. My arguments are well supported and fundamentaly logical. I resent your assertion that I want drugs legal for the purpose of using cocaine. I was clean and sober for 9 years, 4 months and 6 days; at that point I started experimenting with shrooms. I also smoke a little weed, it helps with the nausea of large shroom doses. My relationship with other drugs is a moot point. I don't use any other drugs. Well, I did have a beer while watching the super bowl this year, but no other drugs than that which I have stated."

You made it appear you were an ongoing coke addict with the assertion you made "was/am an addict" directly after saying you starting shooting coke at 16. I do not consider people that smoke MJ or eat mushrooms "addicts". These drugs are not physically addictive. You do not get hardcore physical withdrawl symptoms from these drugs.

"Yes, recreational drugs are just that; for recreation. Surely, even you can admit that alcohol, is addictive (not as addictive as heroin or NICOTINE) and long term use leads to bad/criminal behavior. Try to make a distinction between the lives torn apart by alcohol, and the lives torn apart by another drug, and you will see that the main difference is in the price and availability. "

Yes alcohol is addictive..but as you said yourself it's nothing like some hardcore drugs like herion. Alcohol can be used responsibly without getting it's hooks into you. Those that abuse it are the ones that end up destroying their lives. I don't subscribe to the theory herion,coke,crack,PCP, etc. can be used responsibly in any way..except use by the medical field. The difference is the drug not price and availability. Herion and crack are stronger than any alcoholic bevarage. They grab you and say "want me MORE" .

"What I do suggest is that the crimes that you speak of would dissapear overnight if drugs were legalized."

I don't subscribe to this THEORY.

"You are not excercising any rationality in your argument. I have, on three occasions, pointed out that their is a difference between an act, murder, that causes harm to another and an act, shooting heroin, that causes harm to an individual."

I've tried to explain in much of this thread what my meaning is on this. Those that use hard drugs are causing harm to themselves as individuals aye. These hard drugs however can cause highly erratic behavior. These hard drugs can take over someones life to the point they care for nothing else and if their supply runs out ..they run out of money...out of options..what are they going to do when their pet monkeys start pounding on their backs? Whatever it takes I suppose..which might include breaking laws..robbing people...whatever. So now this addict is causing others harm by his hard drug use.

"You say that your despise big brother government, yet you insist that it is ok to tell people what to do with their lives and bodys. How can you reconcile these to stances? Either you believe in individual liberty and the pursuit of happiness(even if that happiness is just to "feel good" for a few hours) or you believe in legislating how a person should live."

If someone pursues happiness at my expense or other innocent people's expense then yes there should be laws to prevent it. Even if it's something(hard drugs) that may start out with it only causing themselves harm then turn into them causing harm to others to aquire their artificial happiness.

"I think that an 18 year old commiting suicide is tragic. After counseling, perhaps pharmacutical drug therapy and the support of his family, maybe he won't do it. But WHY should it be illegal? On what basis to you think we should interfer further? Your answer can ONLY be to PROTECT HIM FROM HIMSELF."

Ok..."After counseling, perhaps pharmacutical drug therapy" so you admit here that this person would be MENTALLY ILL and should seek "pharmacutical drug therapy" and "counseling" who else but someone ill would seek such treatment. Do we not protect ourselves from mentally ill people? Do we not attempt to cure them? We certainly don't let them go about attacking and murdering people. So...WHY NOT protect them from themselves..why not keep them from murdering themselves? They are mentally ill in the first place. Contemplating suicide is not normal rational thought. Even those that may actually need to be let go if they wish would not NORMALLY want to die if not for their severe physical pain and anguish or being on their last legs anyway.

"For me, since you asked, and I have a living will to this effect, noone turns off the machines, the doctors may consider ANY surgery that may help if I am unable to make that decision for myself; in short, until I am stiff and cold, I will fight to take another breath."

That's good to know. I can look forward to destroying your arguments for a long time to come .

"Don't call me stupid, don't dis-respect me concerning aspects of my life that are
1. irrelevant to the argument at hand
2. none of your business
3. simply rude in any setting.
I think that I have been respectful of your person, while, addmitedly disagreeing with your stance. I demand the same courtesy from you."

Ok...yeah...yeah..I was out of line calling your logic stupid. Is it still ok if I call you a Pablem Puking Fence Post?
About delving into your life..I had/have no interest in your personal life. Your the one that brought it into the picture. I admittedly mistook what you said, but if you go back and reread how you posted it you'll see how easy it was to come to my mistaken conclusion about your (old) coke habit.
Do you think I'm rude ? I've seen ruder on this board...lol.

"Oh yeah, animal suicides?
LEMMINGS. "

Already answered above by the other fellow.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #651017 - 05/29/02 09:53 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

We don't live in primitive times. Primitive culture has not much place in this day and age. Your saying these tribes and peoples had no laws to govern them? NONE? I quote 5.b. entry for Government in the Webster Dictonary ... "b : the complex of political institutions, laws, and customs through which the function of governing is carried out" . An Indian Cheif(Main Entry: 1chief
Pronunciation: 'chEf 1 : accorded highest rank or office) constitutes a position in a governing body..even if the Cheif is the only governing body. I'm sure most if not all of the tribes/peoples you named had local tribal LAWS to govern them ..the does and don'ts to your own people..or else you get punished. A basic law would be that of murdering your own people without cause. That would be a law of almost any peoples in any time. This is government...primitive government but it IS government.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651025 - 05/29/02 09:56 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I doubt you have ever even met a heroin addict, or visited the city of Baltimore Great Cthultu, I used to deal with these guys on a day to day basis. they have no education, one of them will argue until he beats you up, that you cannot support one drug use over another, even marijuana, if you were to smoke marijuana with this person, he would immediately reprimand you for not doing heroin, if you tried to explain of the business aspect, that I don't support the makers, he would get lost in my logic, the fact is that, drug illegaliation does not exist to encourage all drug use, it encourages the act of responsible drug use. Safer drugs would become more popular, because they have a choice, a choice not dependant on money, most of the time in Balitimore you could find a 20 rock, or heroin pill in 5 minutes compared to looking all night for weed, also crack and heroin are cheaper then weed. this directly shows that people do the drugs which are cheapest. If Balitimore was flooded with dirt cheap shrooms, mescaline pills, and lsd, kind nugs, then crack and heroin would be pushed out of the picture. But as you can see, no mafia oriented families do business with these substances like this. So my final point is that all drugs should be illegalized, better, safer drugs, should have the chance to "capitilize" in this free market. Eventually the best drugs will survive as useful. If heroin were to survive, then maybe we would all realize that the drug is fine. Maybe people would start to use opium instead of heroin. Alot of middle eastern cooks alwasy cook with opium, to the extent that maybe they don't even smoke it. Opium is much safer on the body then heroin. Now, another point is that we should still keep the police active on drug research, make sure that they continue to research what new legal drugs are on the market, and when a new unsafe drug appears, educate poeple about it truthfully, if people have the right to suicide, they have the right to use any drug on the market. Education without bias, always serves to educate.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651028 - 05/29/02 09:58 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

If i was to come meet your "click" and introduce myself, would one person most likely talk to me more then another person. I might as well claim this person is powerful, your tribe leader, and ask to impose laws on your click through this person, fuck websters!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #651072 - 05/29/02 10:24 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I've not known a herion addict persay, but I've known crackheads ,methheads, and pill junkies. The pill junkies aren't bad...when they have their pet monkey tamed. Crackheads turn into the shit of the earth even if they are/were a friend. Methheads the same.
If you want safer drugs to become more popular legalize them...MJ..mushrooms..cactus, but don't legalize bullshit like crack. Hard drug use may very well drop in usage so why legalize them and increase the consumer market for it? Just to say you can go buy a rock at the corner market if you want?

"Eventually the best drugs will survive as useful. If heroin were to survive, then maybe we would all realize that the drug is fine. Maybe people would start to use opium instead of heroin."

Herion is NOT fine. Herion is liquid heaven. Liquid heaven is a hard thing to kick even after a first try. It's just too bad this liquid heaven carries a heavy toll.

"Now, another point is that we should still keep the police active on drug research, make sure that they continue to research what new legal drugs are on the market, and when a new unsafe drug appears, educate poeple about it truthfully, if people have the right to suicide, they have the right to use any drug on the market. Education without bias, always serves to educate. "



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #651074 - 05/29/02 10:25 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"If i was to come meet your "click" and introduce myself, would one person most likely talk to me more then another person. I might as well claim this person is powerful, your tribe leader, and ask to impose laws on your click through this person, fuck websters! "



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651076 - 05/29/02 10:28 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

yeah right man, heroin is'nt that great, I've done every single differnt heroin strain that is in Baltimore, My own personal training to become a cop, but yeah, I kicked the habit immediately, I hated the drug, you can feel how it fucks your dopamine receptors immediately. People do heroin, because it's cheap, and in doing it, helps promote their sales, period.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #651180 - 05/29/02 11:19 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not going to get into a long response to your last post...more because I'm tired and need some more "meat slow down amino acids" in my stomach.
You basically think that I believe I know better than you how to run your own life. If your willing to become a crack(or other hard drug) addict then yes I'd say I would know better on that aspect of your life. The former was hypothetical. It doesn't take religion to realize some things are just all around bad and that if you legalize them you have more trouble than it's worth. Doesn't take religion to realize murder is bad and should be illegal does it? Nor does it take religion for me to know that things like crack are bad. Bad things shouldn't be legal. They shouldn't be encouraged.

And yes I am totally evil. My whole argument in this thread has been B.S. I could care less about you humans..other than keeping most of you alive until I can get each and every last human on this planet drive them insane, torture them slowly, or just use them as tiny playthings for a time before eating them. That means no abortion...no suicide..and no hard drugs for you to O.D. on and kill each other over. There must be plenty of fresh flesh for the Old Ones when they return.
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil? http://www.cthulhu.org/



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #651193 - 05/29/02 11:21 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"I hated the drug, you can feel how it fucks your dopamine receptors immediately. People do heroin, because it's cheap, and in doing it, helps promote their sales, period. "

What you had wasn't true or good heroin then or your brain chemistry is already fried beyond normal .


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651196 - 05/29/02 11:22 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Tribes or groups can have religious laws, moral taboos and social customs which they use to govern their behavior, that does not mean that they have a government. If someone murders my child and my neighbors and I decide to punish the person for going against the biblical law of "Thou Shall Not Kill" by hanging the culprit, are we then a government? If there is no governing organization or individual (dictatorship) then there is no government.

I was citing specific examples and you are talking in generalities about societies of which you have little apparent knowledge. You are free to do research on the societies I have listed and then make critiques. Until you do, you are addressing the issue from a position of ignorance. A couple of good books to start with are "Society Against The State" (Essays in Political Anthropology) by Pierre Clastres or "The Machinery of Freedom" by David Friedman.

Peace.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #651262 - 05/29/02 11:50 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"Tribes or groups can have religious laws, moral taboos and social customs which they use to govern their behavior, that does not mean that they have a government. If someone murders my child and my neighbors and I decide to punish the person for going against the biblical law of "Thou Shall Not Kill" by hanging the culprit, are we then a government? If there is no governing organization or individual (dictatorship) then there is no government."

Here you go again. "Government : 5.b : the complex of political institutions, laws, and customs through which the function of governing is carried out" . Laws and customs apparently constitute part of what a government is according to our own definition of the word. It doesn't matter if they are religous laws. If religious laws dictate to a society then it's more of a religious government. All societys have rules and laws to govern themselves. They may not all have political partys persay but they have all had some form of governing their members.

" was citing specific examples and you are talking in generalities about societies of which you have little apparent knowledge. You are free to do research on the societies I have listed and then make critiques. Until you do, you are addressing the issue from a position of ignorance. "

It's so very easy to claim someones ignorance rather than argue legitimately. I am not ignorant of history and ancient cultures. You claim my ignorance because my views do not coincide with yours on the subject.
Eat dung and die, BUT FIRST vote for the greater evil http://www.cthulhu.org/ .




--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #651278 - 05/29/02 12:03 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

The powerful DNC strongly opposes MJ legalization, as does the RNC and the NRCC. It's not an issue of democrats versus republicans or left versus right. It's an issue of personal freedom which both the left and right strongly oppose.

The green party is so left it's rediculous. They are basically socialists and they don't even bother to deny it. Look at Nader's platform, it's socialist.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemrfreedom
journeyman
Male
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 80
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651311 - 05/29/02 12:18 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I see that you have never met an addict; that would explain your cofusion to what I posted ie. "I was/am addicted to cocain".
The act of admitting an addiction is that one is addicted for the rest of one's life.
I was an addict when I used and I continue to be an addict even if I don't use.
If I ever use cocaine or any amphetamine, ever again, I will probably die; no, I will die. That is the essence of being an addict. Once an addict ALWAYS an addict.

Thanks for admitting to knowing how to live my life better than me. Thanks for making laws to allow you to intrude on my personal life. I appreciate it, especialy since my parents gave up on raising me when I was 30. It's nice to know that there are so many people willing to stand up and tell me how to live. Now, where's my allowance, I hear the crack truck coming down the street.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651385 - 05/29/02 12:49 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

So according to you, a tribal society with no complex of political institutions and laws, where there is no coercion and no organized body (or individual) to enforce codes, just voluntary compliance does indeed have a government?

Yes, I see how that fits the defintion "Government : 5.b : the complex of political institutions, laws, and customs through which the function of governing is carried out" (I noticed you picked definition 5. b. I guess the other more commonly used definitions were even further removed from your personal definition).

So, just so I understand where you're coming from, any and all forms of deciding how one should act is a government even if it is totally voluntary, involves no coercion and there is no organized body (or individual) to enforce codes... Wow, even a two people living alone on a desert island not claimed by any political entity, with only their own morals handed down from their upbringing in their society are living under a government.

Anarchy could never exist (even for a brief moment) under your definition because all societies are actually governments.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #652096 - 05/29/02 07:17 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Evolving writes:

"So, just so I understand where you're coming from, any and all forms of deciding how one should act is a government even if it is totally voluntary, involves no coercion and there is no organized body (or individual) to enforce codes... "

I agree with you that tribal customs, laws, taboos, etc. do not constitute a "government" by any strict definition of that term, but it should be pointed out that obeying or not obeying those laws/customs/taboos was not, as you claim, "totally voluntary" or that it "involves no coercion." First of all, people in primitive hunter/gatherer communities did not have highly developed conceptions of individualism, and they did not have access to sources of information or ideas that were at odds with the prevailing cosmology and worldview. The fact is that the thought of not obeying customs and taboos simply wouldn't have even crossed their minds. Even if it DID momentarily cross their minds, the possibility of being ostracized and abandoned by the community would have been seen by them as a fate literally worse than death. It's not as if they could just take off with their MasterCards and make a new start of it, and they certainly didn't attach as much value to their own opinions as contemporary Americans do. If they felt they had been treated unfairly or wronged in some way they could protest but eventually would have to submit to some kind of third-party mediation. Cooperation was not a luxury for them, it was a matter of survival.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #652403 - 05/29/02 11:43 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Was their one part in the green party platform that you can cite as appearing socialist?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #653100 - 05/30/02 08:50 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Great_Cthulhu, your stance on the use of drugs is inconsistent, no matter how you squirm and wiggle to justify it. In essence you are saying it is OK to legalize SOME recreational drugs, but only the ones YOU believe are good, or can be used "responsibly".

How is that different from the current WOD? The US government has decided that caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol are good, and can be used responsibly. To that list YOU would be willing to add some hallucinogens and marijuana. Your reasons for leaving opiates, amphetamines, PCP and cocaine criminalized substances seem to be twofold:

1) You claim that people under the influence of these drugs MAY harm others.

2) You claim that these drugs are injurious to the user.

Let's address 1) first.

The vast majority of the harm that those addicted to cocaine and opiates inflict on others comes not from some psychotic rage produced by the drug itself (junkies, for example, are about the most non-violent people you will ever meet), but by the need to come up with enough money to BUY the stuff in the first place. Wealthy junkies are not a danger to the populace at large.

If these drugs were decriminalized, why do you think they would be any more expensive than cigarettes, coffee, or alcohol? Coca bushes and opium poppies are no more difficult to grow than coffee bushes. If I need my caffeine fix, I don't mug someone to get the money necessary to buy a cappucino.

PCP and amphetamines do tend to make a higher percentage of users more aggressive than opiates or cocaine, but so what? I have seen WAY more bar brawls take place than fights between tweakers. In the eyes of the law, assaulting someone because you were drunk is no excuse. Neither would assaulting someone because you were "speeding". I fail to see the problem.

As for 2), how can you say that the user is injuring himself more by being addicted to cocaine or opiates than to nicotine or alcohol? England's programs have shown that a junkie able to obtain heroin by prescription can function perfectly normally and hold down jobs just as well as non-addicts can. As a matter of fact, they can function better than most alcoholics can.

But that is irrelevant. The philosophical principal at stake here is whether or not an individual has the right to put whatever substance he chooses into his body, whether it be heroin or arsenic.

You say: I don't subscribe to the theory herion,coke,crack,PCP, etc. can be used responsibly in any way..except use by the medical field.

How is someone who gets stoned on beer or marijuana or mushrooms acting any more "responsibly" than someone who gets stoned on smack or coke? The idea in each case is to get wasted, no? If the act of getting stoned on bud is not to be considered irresponsible, how can the act of getting stoned on coke be?

If someone pursues happiness at my expense or other innocent people's expense then yes there should be laws to prevent it.

Agreed. There are such laws already, i.e. "driving under the influence".

Even if it's something(hard drugs) that may start out with it only causing themselves harm then turn into them causing harm to others to aquire their artificial happiness.

The point is, there are laws against causing harm already, regardless of the motive behind the harm. Does every thief who steals a TV do so to sell it and buy drugs? Nope. Some do so because they would rather steal a TV than buy one. The legal penalty is identical regardless of the motive behind the theft.

As for your stance on suicide... that is completely indefensible rationally no matter what arguments you make. Whose life is it, anyway? It's MY life. If I choose to terminate it prematurely, for WHATEVER reason, delusional or not, that is no one's business but my own. No one has the right to FORCE me to remain alive.

You may try to persuade me that I am making a mistake, true. But that's as far as it goes. As soon as you attempt to restrain me forcibly, YOU are in the wrong. This presumes, of course, that my manner of suicide doesn't involve harming others. If I decide to strap a bomb to myself and trigger it in the midst of a schoolyard you have every right to stop me.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #653307 - 05/30/02 10:31 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Lots of right-leaning people support decriminalization of some oor all drugs. You posted to my thread about Governor Gary Johnson of New Mexico, who is a Republican who calls for an end to the war on drugs. A huge chunk of the Republican party are basically free-market libertarians who would let the market decide. Many more would rather leave it up to the states. The Libertarian Party, of course, is pro-decriminalization.

Go browse www.freerepublic.com and do a search for drug-related threads. That's pretty much the flagship of conservative/libertarian bulletin boards, and War On Drug threads are prevalent. They are a lot of fun, in fact.

The National Review, a long-standing conservative magazine run by Bill Buckly, has an official editorial policy opposing the WOD.

You are operating under a false assumption.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: wingnutx]
    #653370 - 05/30/02 11:05 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I might look around the sites, but mainly I compare lp. or republicans to to primitive reptiles. They eat meat! But the point is that if Gary Johnson wants the wod to stop then why is he part of the republican party? I support his stance, but just because he supports that idea, does not mean I am going to support his party, In fact it makes his whole party look bad, I mean what kind of political party is one that can't even keep it's members at a standard platform? The libertarians look the same, they are trying to push republican propagandizing through a pro teen anti wod viewpoint, it's basically selling out, that's why I don't trust their party. They have been around so long, but with nothing done. The green party got more votes the lp, and this is about a couple years running for them, The green party is going to spread like wild fire. Their stance is unequivicol, and they appear trustworthy, the dress in hemp, speak about hemp, and their main stance is in fact hemp legalization, I suggest we work at the simple things first.

Who knows what the world's political parties would bring to the green parties doorstep. If they were to show a sign of trustworthyness and ability, like legalizaing hemp, increasing hemp trade, this would be an economic and political peacful bloom for the world. however we would have to vote green, and have green party members in office to achieve this simple goal of hemp legalization.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #653430 - 05/30/02 11:39 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Nader and the Green party have my gratitude, btw, for keeping Al Gore out of office. Not as good a spoiler as Perot, but a damn good one in any case

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #654756 - 05/31/02 01:51 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"I see that you have never met an addict; that would explain your cofusion to what I posted ie. "I was/am addicted to cocain".
The act of admitting an addiction is that one is addicted for the rest of one's life.
I was an addict when I used and I continue to be an addict even if I don't use.
If I ever use cocaine or any amphetamine, ever again, I will probably die; no, I will die. That is the essence of being an addict. Once an addict ALWAYS an addict."

I've seen many addicts. I've lost friends to crack cocaine in fact. It's turned them into SHIT. It's taken normal people and turned them into the scum of the Earth and I witnessed it. Yeah your right many "addicts" usually don't stop wanting a drug he/she is addicted too. Once an addict stops destroying their body and life though they are RECOVERED addicts. They have shown they have the incredible will power it takes to do what's right and stop it either with help our on their own. I do not consider them "addicts".

"Thanks for admitting to knowing how to live my life better than me. Thanks for making laws to allow you to intrude on my personal life. I appreciate it, especialy since my parents gave up on raising me when I was 30. It's nice to know that there are so many people willing to stand up and tell me how to live. Now, where's my allowance, I hear the crack truck coming down the street. "

I'm tired of trying to tell you why SOME things should not be allowed so...your welcome.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #654791 - 05/31/02 02:21 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"So according to you, a tribal society with no complex of political institutions and laws, where there is no coercion and no organized body (or individual) to enforce codes, just voluntary compliance does indeed have a government? "

With any laws/rules there IS coercion. Doesn't matter if there is an organized body or individual to enforce codes as the people living by them do the enforcing. Yes voluntary compliance to a set of rules is a form of self governing. Albeit a simple form of governing but government nevertheless.

"Yes, I see how that fits the defintion "Government : 5.b : the complex of political institutions, laws, and customs through which the function of governing is carried out" (I noticed you picked definition 5. b. I guess the other more commonly used definitions were even further removed from your personal definition). "

It is one of several different definitions of government, but that definition is no less valid than the others.

"So, just so I understand where you're coming from, any and all forms of deciding how one should act is a government even if it is totally voluntary, involves no coercion and there is no organized body (or individual) to enforce codes... Wow, even a two people living alone on a desert island not claimed by any political entity, with only their own morals handed down from their upbringing in their society are living under a government. "

You are correct. When people limit themselves from doing certain acts they are governing themselves in some way...which constitutes a form of primitive government.

"Anarchy could never exist (even for a brief moment) under your definition because all societies are actually governments. "

Anarchy exists when you have total lawlessness...say like a riot in L.A.(or anywhere) THAT is Anarchy.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Phred]
    #654878 - 05/31/02 03:53 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"Great_Cthulhu, your stance on the use of drugs is inconsistent, no matter how you squirm and wiggle to justify it. In essence you are saying it is OK to legalize SOME recreational drugs, but only the ones YOU believe are good, or can be used "responsibly". "

I'm not squirming or wiggling. Your are correct. I believe some drugs are all around bad for recreational use. I think most with common sense see this as well.

"How is that different from the current WOD? The US government has decided that caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol are good, and can be used responsibly. To that list YOU would be willing to add some hallucinogens and marijuana. "

It is different as I see clearly that some drugs are NOT as bad as claimed. Some drugs currently illegal like Marijuana for example. The U.S. government hasn't decided caffiene,alcohol, and nicotine are good. They have just decided they are not SO bad as to be outlawed. In the case of nicotine they are actively saying it is VERY bad yet it is still legal.

"Your reasons for leaving opiates, amphetamines, PCP and cocaine criminalized substances seem to be twofold:

1) You claim that people under the influence of these drugs MAY harm others.

2) You claim that these drugs are injurious to the user."

3 They cannot be realistically be used responsibly for recreational purposes.

"The vast majority of the harm that those addicted to cocaine and opiates inflict on others comes not from some psychotic rage produced by the drug itself (junkies, for example, are about the most non-violent people you will ever meet), but by the need to come up with enough money to BUY the stuff in the first place. Wealthy junkies are not a danger to the populace at large."

How many wealthy junkies do you know?

"If these drugs were decriminalized, why do you think they would be any more expensive than cigarettes, coffee, or alcohol? Coca bushes and opium poppies are no more difficult to grow than coffee bushes. If I need my caffeine fix, I don't mug someone to get the money necessary to buy a cappucino."

Many people commonly STEAL cigarretes and alcohol.

"PCP and amphetamines do tend to make a higher percentage of users more aggressive than opiates or cocaine, but so what? I have seen WAY more bar brawls take place than fights between tweakers."

That's because alcohol is LEGAL and easily accessed.

"In the eyes of the law, assaulting someone because you were drunk is no excuse. Neither would assaulting someone because you were "speeding". I fail to see the problem."

Why should we increase the number of violent outbreaks due to legalizing drugs that cause them? The state may claim it's the person's responsibility for the actions they take under the influence, but that's only to keep them in check..and hopefully keep them from abusing substances. This doesn't change the fact that it's a drug they've taken voluntarily that's influencing them to act that way.

"As for 2), how can you say that the user is injuring himself more by being addicted to cocaine or opiates than to nicotine or alcohol?"

Because he/she IS. Do you believe cocaine and herion are not as damaging as alcohol or nicotine? Alcohol is only damaging if it's ABUSED and not used responsibly. Nicotine is only damaging in lethal doses. It's not the nicotine in a cigaretted that kills you. It's the tar and Carbon Monoxide. Cocaine and herion are directly damaging to your health mental and physical if used for extended periods.

"How is someone who gets stoned on beer or marijuana or mushrooms acting any more "responsibly" than someone who gets stoned on smack or coke? The idea in each case is to get wasted, no? If the act of getting stoned on bud is not to be considered irresponsible, how can the act of getting stoned on coke be?"

You keep spouting these things..but it's the same just a different angle. Smoking a bud is not like smoking crack because MJ doesn't grab you and make you rob,cheat,steal to get more if you run out of money. It doesn't hook you physically and take over your life to the point the drug is all that matters. It CANNOT be used responsibly recreationally by responsible adults. I use crack as an example ...because you would be legalizing crack along with everything else if you had your way wouldn't you?

"Agreed. There are such laws already, i.e. "driving under the influence"."

Yeah...and laws like "you can't smoke crack and do smack" as well.

"The point is, there are laws against causing harm already, regardless of the motive behind the harm. Does every thief who steals a TV do so to sell it and buy drugs? Nope. Some do so because they would rather steal a TV than buy one. The legal penalty is identical regardless of the motive behind the theft. "

Yes the penalties are the same but why not stop the source of some of things that persuade people to do such things...sometimes agains't their true will?

"As for your stance on suicide... that is completely indefensible rationally no matter what arguments you make. Whose life is it, anyway? It's MY life. If I choose to terminate it prematurely, for WHATEVER reason, delusional or not, that is no one's business but my own. No one has the right to FORCE me to remain alive. "

No one has the POWER to force you to remain alive you are insane and do not wish it, but we can discourage it by making laws agains't killing yourself...so that it is known to be a bad thing and not something socially acceptable. As I said earlier above if someone REALLY wants to kill themselves they are going to do it(.)

"You may try to persuade me that I am making a mistake, true. But that's as far as it goes. As soon as you attempt to restrain me forcibly, YOU are in the wrong. This presumes, of course, that my manner of suicide doesn't involve harming others. If I decide to strap a bomb to myself and trigger it in the midst of a schoolyard you have every right to stop me."

Should we not restrain a crazy man that's going to kill himself then? Because a physically healthy individual that's going to kill himself is NOT sane.




--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #654942 - 05/31/02 04:33 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Primitive reptiles because they eat meat? Is it a requirement of the Green Party to be a bovine grazing animal with bad gas? I'm sure not all of you are bovines.
Eating meat has NOTHING to do with how someone thinks or what beliefs they carry. Nor does eating vegatables.

I believe your Green Party will wither and die. You can't have a party that's main stance and promotion is JUST legalization of Hemp and have it succede. Everything else the Green Party stands for is just environmentalist socialist pablem.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #655054 - 05/31/02 05:44 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Great_Cthulhu writes:

I believe some drugs are all around bad for recreational use. I think most with common sense see this as well.

Then I have no common sense. Different drugs have different effects. Different people have different ideas of which effect suits them more. For example, many people hate the loss of control they experience on an LSD trip, but love the energetic euphoria they attain from a line of coke. IN YOUR OPINION, a psychedelic loss of control is superior to an energetic euphoria.

3 They cannot be realistically be used responsibly for recreational purposes.

Of course they can. By the way, I have yet to see from you your idea of exactly what "responsible" means, or, for that matter, "recreational".

How many wealthy junkies do you know?

I know more than a few well-to-do people who are addicted to opiates. I know one in particular who has been a junkie for over two decades. Apart from his chronic constipation, which doesn't affect ME in the least, he is as normal as most other people I know.

Many people commonly STEAL cigarretes and alcohol.

If you mean hijacking truckloads of either, agreed. These same people also hijack truckloads of VCRs and washing machines. How many people mug old ladies in order to buy a pack of smokes?

Why should we increase the number of violent outbreaks due to legalizing drugs that cause them?

Ah... the prior restraint argument. "Some people, sometimes, in some situations, may become violent under the influence of some drugs, therefore these drugs must be made illegal." Please differentiate between that statement and "Some people, sometimes, in some situations, may become violent after viewing pornography and rape someone, therefore pornography must be made illegal." Or "Some people, sometimes, in some situations, may become violent after reading a Tom Clancy novel or watching a Rambo film or viewing a news report of a postal worker who shot up a MacDonald's, therefore movies or books or news reports detailing violent acts should be made illegal."

This doesn't change the fact that it's a drug they've taken voluntarily that's influencing them to act that way.

If that is their reaction to a given drug, then they have the responsibility to take that drug in the privacy of their homes rather than in public. There are already laws against drinking in public places, or being intoxicated in public.

Do you believe cocaine and herion are not as damaging as alcohol or nicotine?

I do. And I am not alone in that. The limited medical information we have from the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries when both cocaine and opiates were freely available in over the counter patent medicines supports my belief.

Alcohol is only damaging if it's ABUSED and not used responsibly.

The same is true of opiates, amphetamines, and cocaine.

Nicotine is only damaging in lethal doses.

Not true. It damages the body in sub-lethal doses as well. Decreased lung capacity, hardening of arteries, loss of elasticity in connective tissue, and a host of others.

It's not the nicotine in a cigaretted that kills you. It's the tar and Carbon Monoxide.

Not true. Nicotine is in itself a carcinogen. Tobacco chewers may not get lung cancer to the same degree that smokers do, but they get throat and mouth cancer.

Cocaine and herion are directly damaging to your health mental and physical if used for extended periods.

No more so than alcohol and less so than nicotine. But all of that is irrelevant. A high fat diet is damaging to your health, too. What is relevant is not whether you are shortening your life expectancy by taking drugs, but whether you are violating another's rights. Clearly, you are not.

Smoking a bud is not like smoking crack because MJ doesn't grab you and make you rob,cheat,steal to get more if you run out of money.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. You just said that people steal alcohol and cigarettes. Are you saying that people don't steal marijuana?

It doesn't hook you physically and take over your life to the point the drug is all that matters.

For what it's worth, I and many of my friends used to buy coke maybe twice a year. We'd buy some smack maybe once every two years, smoke opium maybe four or five times a year. When we didn't have the money, we did without. Most of the time, even if we DID have the money, we did without. But we ALWAYS had hash or weed on hand. ALWAYS. From what I have read on this message board, there are MANY members who can say the same thing. What does that tell you?

It CANNOT be used responsibly recreationally by responsible adults.

Nonsense. I just showed you it could.

Yeah...and laws like "you can't smoke crack and do smack" as well.

Lame. The two statements are not related, and you know it. There is an enormous conceptual difference between getting stoned and watching TV on the couch and getting stoned and operating a two ton vehicle at high speeds on a public thoroughfare. The law recognizes the distinction. So do you.

Yes the penalties are the same but why not stop the source of some of things that persuade people to do such things...sometimes agains't their true will?

Prior restraint. Asked and answered above.

Should we not restrain a crazy man that's going to kill himself then?

For a moment? Perhaps. That could conceivably be be argued either way. Permanently? Nope.

Because a physically healthy individual that's going to kill himself is NOT sane.

Bullshit. Physically healthy people are still capable of suffering emotional anguish... grief or shame, for example. That doesn't make them insane. It is the utmost arrogance to presume that YOU should decide that an individual must keep living. That is clearly the choice of the individual. As a matter of fact, it is SO obviously the choice of the individual that if you can justify THAT violation of his rights, you can justify ANY violation of his rights, and there is no point even having a legal system at all.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #655367 - 05/31/02 08:20 AM (21 years, 9 months ago)

It's not my part, it's the party I support.

Also, like they say, red meat cause a temper. Just look at Bush!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #655838 - 05/31/02 12:33 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

I share a house with a ill-tempered vegan. I eat plenty of meat, and I am very hard to anger. You are operating under a false assumption.

Hitler was a vegetarian. Jonas Saulk ate meat. Diet is irrelevant.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: wingnutx]
    #655853 - 05/31/02 12:45 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

that reminds me of this ill tempered vegan I once knew....

I saw him at this std clinic with a girl
and then I went to this concert a few weeks later.
Me and his ex girlfriend were dancing
and then he came and jumped me from behind
and then his ex girlfriend left, all crying, like I knew he still loved me

Yeah, so you maybe be right. but still Bush is one ill tempered revenge inciting want to be practicing Baptist mother fucker. He in no way should associate himself with going to church, until he admits that violence is not the only way.

I think it may be the cheese, a peaceful breaking point, that vegans don't eat.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,283
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #656317 - 05/31/02 05:13 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

If Bush truly thought that violence was the only way, then the middle east would be one vast glass parking lot by now. The US has been amazingly restrained.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Phred]
    #657654 - 06/01/02 03:04 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

"Then I have no common sense. Different drugs have different effects. Different people have different ideas of which effect suits them more. For example, many people hate the loss of control they experience on an LSD trip, but love the energetic euphoria they attain from a line of coke. IN YOUR OPINION, a psychedelic loss of control is superior to an energetic euphoria."

I never said anything criticizing the affects of any drugs...besides perhaps PCP which can make users pyschotic. It's not the physical pleasure achieved from any of them that's the problem.

"Of course they can. By the way, I have yet to see from you your idea of exactly what "responsible" means, or, for that matter, "recreational"."

Of course they can be used responsibly? You include something like crack in this do you? Give me a hypothetical situation where crack cocaine can be used responsibly. Here is my definition of responsibly..."
1 : the quality or state of being responsible : as a : moral, legal, or mental accountability b : RELIABILITY, TRUSTWORTHINESS"
Here is my definition of Recreation...
": refreshment of strength and spirits after work; also : a means of refreshment or diversion : HOBBY"
Straight out of the dictonary. I do not apply my own definitions.

"I know more than a few well-to-do people who are addicted to opiates. I know one in particular who has been a junkie for over two decades. Apart from his chronic constipation, which doesn't affect ME in the least, he is as normal as most other people I know."

Do you think all the masses could handle opiate addiction as good as your friend? What do you think your friend would be like if he was suddenly without his beloved opiates? What would his pet King Kong do to him? Anyway I'm not so concerned with opium as I am with Herion in particular. H is synthetically made from the M in opium. Herion is not natural. I don't have a problem with most (natural) drugs.

"If you mean hijacking truckloads of either, agreed. These same people also hijack truckloads of VCRs and washing machines. How many people mug old ladies in order to buy a pack of smokes?"

No I mean someone walking into a store and stealing alcohol and tobacco. It happens every day.

"Ah... the prior restraint argument. "

No. I'm not telling you what to watch..or what fiction books to read. Normal sane people have no problem with these things and interpreting them just for what they are...entertainment. Books and films do not alter your body chemistry. They do not alter your perception. Though they may influence your views your free will is there and not unnaturally altered. Once you've taken enough crack or smack(sometimes takes only one time) the drug is in control not you. Sure your fine and dandy just as long as your pet monkey is happy...if he gets angry though your in for it. Your going to do what he asks or suffer the consequences(WD) and I'm not talking the jittering quick to anger jaunce from quiting cigarettes. WD's from these drugs are PURE HELL. Just ask an addict. Few can handle and use these drugs responsibly without getting a pet monkey,Gorilla,King Kong on their back. Are they still using smack or crack responsibly when it's not them talking it's the drug DEMANDING them "TAKE ME! TAKE ME OR ELSE!"? Therefor they are ILLEGAL and should stay that way to discourage widespread use. Call it prior restrain if you wish, but do not compare hard drugs to films and books.

"If that is their reaction to a given drug, then they have the responsibility to take that drug in the privacy of their homes rather than in public. There are already laws against drinking in public places, or being intoxicated in public."

Already answered above.

"I do. And I am not alone in that. The limited medical information we have from the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries when both cocaine and opiates were freely available in over the counter patent medicines supports my belief. "

No it doesn't. These things were usually sold as folk remedies..as cure alls. All they did was disguise any symptoms and addict the user which happened to usually be house wives mainly because they couldn't socially drink in public without being scandalous back then.
Show me a crack/smack addict that's in top physical form. Shall we compare the number of nicotine O.D.'s to smack and coke? Compare the number of those in coma's due to O.D. ? Truth is that an addict with a big gorilla on his back will probably just stop giving a shit about their health. I've personally seen it happen to a former friend on crack. He went from 160# to around 90# in about 2 month's time These drugs are NOT less or equally damaging as alcohol and nicotine. They are far more damaging sometimes in the shortrun for things like crack/cocaine and long run for things like herion. I'd point out some studys but I don't feel like looking for them and I don't think it would do any good for you anyway:D . Besides the majority of people know these things are more damaging anyway and would admit it even when asking for legalization. It's only the uneducated,the junkie, or the idiot philosopher that think otherwise.

" "Alcohol is only damaging if it's ABUSED and not used responsibly."
The same is true of opiates, amphetamines, and cocaine."

Already answered above.

" "Nicotine is only damaging in lethal doses."

Not true. It damages the body in sub-lethal doses as well. Decreased lung capacity, hardening of arteries, loss of elasticity in connective tissue, and a host of others."

You are correct. I was tired when posting and not thinking totally straight...I do know these things. Maybe I didn't have enough "meat slow down amino acids" in me at the time.

" "It's not the nicotine in a cigaretted that kills you. It's the tar and Carbon Monoxide."

Not true. Nicotine is in itself a carcinogen. Tobacco chewers may not get lung cancer to the same degree that smokers do, but they get throat and mouth cancer."

You are correct again. I was partially correct in my partly delirious state however. Carbon monoxide and tar are major contributers as well as nicotine in regards lung damage from smoking.

"No more so than alcohol and less so than nicotine. But all of that is irrelevant. A high fat diet is damaging to your health, too. What is relevant is not whether you are shortening your life expectancy by taking drugs, but whether you are violating another's rights. Clearly, you are not."

Answered above.
Here's what's relevant...shortening your life, possibly causing others harm directly/indirectly, and becoming a worthless noncontributing shitty stain on soiciety.

"Wait a minute, wait a minute. You just said that people steal alcohol and cigarettes. Are you saying that people don't steal marijuana?"

People will always steal. Always there will be thieves. Your missing the point. Marijuana doesn't cause pet monkeys or make you psychotic.

"For what it's worth, I and many of my friends used to buy coke maybe twice a year. We'd buy some smack maybe once every two years, smoke opium maybe four or five times a year. When we didn't have the money, we did without. Most of the time, even if we DID have the money, we did without. But we ALWAYS had hash or weed on hand. ALWAYS. From what I have read on this message board, there are MANY members who can say the same thing. What does that tell you?"

It tells me you were lucky enough to not get a more permanent pet monkey.

""It CANNOT be used responsibly recreationally by responsible adults."

Nonsense. I just showed you it could."

Nonsense all you did was show me your idiot philosophy. I was refering to crack in particular with that statement you took out of context. I ask again for you to give me a hypothetical responsible use for crack.

"Lame. The two statements are not related, and you know it. There is an enormous conceptual difference between getting stoned and watching TV on the couch and getting stoned and operating a two ton vehicle at high speeds on a public thoroughfare. The law recognizes the distinction. So do you."

Why did we create the driving under the influence law? Can't we trust people to act responsibly and not do it?
How can I trust you not to become an addict. How can I trust your monkey once you do? Pet monkeys have no conscience when they are not satiated.
I do recognize the difference between driving under the influence and doing certain hard drugs. I was making the point... They are both illegal. They are both (bad) things to do.. I know not just because my government has told me "you can't do that" . Nor do I know because a religion has told me so. I know because of clear facts not lies,laws, or propaganda.

" "Yes the penalties are the same but why not stop the source of some of things that persuade people to do such things...sometimes agains't their true will?"

Prior restraint. Asked and answered above."

Call it what you want, but I don't buy that crap. There are hundreds of examples of this "prior restraint". According to your logic any law limiting the cause of something bad before it happens is prior restraint. Driving under the influence(stop accidents before they (might) happen). Speeding(same as previous).Obeying Traffic lights...etc..etc..etc..etc.
So sure "prior restraint" is apart of any government and necessary.

" "Should we not restrain a crazy man that's going to kill himself then?"

For a moment? Perhaps. That could conceivably be be argued either way. Permanently? Nope."

Why not permanently? Why not attempt to cure him of his mental illness regardless until he dies naturally. Your only answer could be to just get him out of the way and save money. Where is it morally acceptable to kill people for this reason?

"Because a physically healthy individual that's going to kill himself is NOT sane.

"Bullshit. Physically healthy people are still capable of suffering emotional anguish... grief or shame, for example. That doesn't make them insane. It is the utmost arrogance to presume that YOU should decide that an individual must keep living. That is clearly the choice of the individual. As a matter of fact, it is SO obviously the choice of the individual that if you can justify THAT violation of his rights, you can justify ANY violation of his rights, and there is no point even having a legal system at all."

Emotional anguish, grief, or shame. These are not emotions a sane and sound person would have to the extent they wished to kill themselves. Your argument is bullshit. I could argue agains't it with a quasi-relegious argument, but that would get no where would it? Being an atheist simplifies so much eh? You can make up your own morals...or try to. So I will ask again what animal in nature kills itself over emotional trauma? Do not deny we are not apart of nature. We may be the only truly sentient being on this planet, but man was created from the Earth and if you deny any creator being it just emphasises how apart of nature we are. It could be argued everything even artificial creations we make are apart of nature without some type of religion/belief in the supernatural. Whoops...getting off track.
Regardless of how you believe we got here suicide for emotional stress is wrong...and it is NOT in any way natural. AS I SAID BEFORE AND BEFORE THAT if someone wants to truly kill themself they will do so. They will do so in a place and situation where none may stop them or talk them down. We have these laws to DISCOURAGE physically healthy people from killing themselves when they are MENTALLY disturbed..emotionally or otherwise. To let them know it is NOT RIGHT.. it is NOT natural. I don't see what your problem is. If you want to die kill yourself. No ones going to actually charge you with commiting suicide once YOUR DEAD. It's a no brainer.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #657679 - 06/01/02 03:20 PM (21 years, 9 months ago)

Reminds me of a story from news of the weird all the talking about bovines.
A bovine fellow was found dead in his bedroom. Several Emergency response personel had to be removed from the location of death due to extreme nausia and one having to be temporarily hospitalized due to it. Apparently the man was a rather large vegetarian whose diet was composed mainly of beans and cabbage. Unfortunately for him his bedroom was small and had extremely poor ventilation...and due to his bad gas...he had actually farted himself to death in his sleep..lol. Methane poisoning. I swear this is a true story...look it up.


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

Edited by Great_Cthulhu (06/01/02 03:31 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Look out Chavez,Peru's Garcia may buck leftist wave Luddite 753 2 06/12/06 03:08 PM
by Luddite
* Leftist thinkers
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
airclay 6,593 124 09/30/15 11:50 AM
by The Ecstatic
* Leftist Chavez backs Narco-terrorists in Colombia (Declares War) bodynotdead 1,035 16 03/07/08 11:37 AM
by vonhumboldt
* Leftist Accomplices to Terror
( 1 2 3 all )
Great_Satan 5,431 54 09/14/04 02:59 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* Mojahedin and leftists executed in Iran Great_Satan 1,166 9 09/13/04 07:33 PM
by Phred
* ?Something? felled an M1A1 Abrams tank in Iraq ? but what? SquattingMarmot 1,212 19 11/01/03 08:13 PM
by monoamine
* Mexico: Leftist militants strike at Pemex oil line (corporate systems disruption 101)
( 1 2 all )
The_Red_Crayon 4,446 39 07/14/07 07:27 PM
by zorbman
* Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit
( 1 2 all )
RandalFlagg 4,968 35 09/13/04 12:45 AM
by Zahid

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
7,004 topic views. 3 members, 0 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.056 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.