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Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/05/00
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Leftist think tank
    #645387 - 05/26/02 02:12 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, so I was just wondering if any republicans, rightists support the growing of plants scheduled under u.s. law. I don't think they do. anyways, alot of people posting here, are very rightist, but yet, hang out at a website dedicating to cultivating mushrooms. So I just wanted to ask you all, why do you hang out here?, and do you hang out at another form, dedicating to rightisim, which I could come hang out, and bother you with leftist views?, just wondering....

P.s. they point is that I would love to see this forum as a leftist think tank, yet we all fail to argue against rightism. I guess us leftists (if any) are all very stupid, uneducated, and obseesed with trivial concepts such as peace, and the cultivation of scheduled substances, it's almost too simple. I mean, I see a president elect supporting the legalization of hemp, world peace, a more charitable and free america, yet alot of people don't support this president of party (Nader of the green party, greenparty.org, you can go to the website for a complete and knowledgabe, unlacking platform, of what the green party represents), they support democrats and republicans alike, who year after year are proved to be corrupt! But, they still belive that politicians are independent from parties, so they trust every knew republican or democrat to come along. So what I am saying is, what democrat or republican politicians support parts of the green party platform? I don't think any, so why do people hang here and advertise, (maybe falsely, without meaning, but yet advertising) republican, democrat, and rightist views. Why can't we all open up to the inner peaceful, charitable green party merit, that we all have inherinted from God. It was'nt long ago, that people roamed the earth, gathering food from naturally occuring trees, fruit trees 50 feet high, and all the other vegatables of the earth without violence, why cannot we have a leftist think tank, in this political forum, without false or "true" arguments supporting politicians who do not support the freedom of growing plants. living without taxation, international aid directly from the U.s. government, etc.

To people not living in the U.s. with the freedom to vote and support green, I apoligize, I hope you have green party organizers flock to your country soon.

Peace


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Registered: 05/21/01
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #645443 - 05/26/02 04:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"Yeah, so I was just wondering if any republicans, rightists support the growing of plants scheduled under u.s. law. I don't think they do."

I support the full legalization of Marijuana for medicinal and recreational use and the marketing and taxation of it as tobacoo is currently...it would create/save billions. Mushrooms should be legalized as well but not publicly marketed perhaps. Hard drugs...take them out. I see no use for Herion,Crack, Cocaine, PCP, ...etc. other than killing people. On most every other subject I am VERY conservative...so you thought wrong. I dispise pablem puking liberals ... ...not for their views...but for their seemingly total lack of common sense or ability to rationalize things. I also dislike their boneheaded unmoving views about subjects even when proven wrong. I call liberals Fence Posts...because it's much like arguing with one...a pointless endeavor.

Drugs..growing your own pot..mushrooms..whatever is only one issue of many that have to be taken into consideration. To be "liberal" or support a political party based ONLY upon their support of legalizing drug use is foolish. Would you vote a communist into office if his stance on drugs was lenient? (No I'm not saying the Green party is communist.) I see many posters that seem to have an attitude like this around here. Drugs aren't the only thing in life kids..get educated...get some common sense.


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #645531 - 05/26/02 06:59 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ah, the old false dichotomy, left versus right. The leftists want to control (mostly) your purse strings and have the government pay for the consequences of your bad decisions (as long as the bad decisions are on the leftists approved list). The rightist want to control (mostly) your behavior in the name of morality, while allowing you relatively free reign in the economic sphere (as long as the economic endeavors are on the rightists approved list). Simple minded people accept this as a given and think that all political philosophies fit somewhere within the "left-right spectrum." Both operate on the underlying assumption that they know what is best for the individual and how to control his behavior. Both believe that they occupy the moral high ground and the powers they desire over the individual will only be used for good. Both are arrogant and conceited in their assumptions.

I've got better dichotomies for you, how about liberty vs. coercion? Or how about freedom vs. state control? Or individuality vs. forced conformity?

Some people reject the initiation of force as a means of acheiving political or social goals, not rightist nor leftists, they are lovers of freedom and peacful existence between their fellow humans. They believe in the dignity of the individual. Once you sanction force against one person to achieve your goals (no matter how noble), you are sanctioning force against all members of society. All people are now potential means to your ends and government becomes an instrument of plunder and violence to be used by any and all who have influence over it.

"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
-- Robert A. Heinlein


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #645546 - 05/26/02 07:11 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Let me guess Great Cthulta, you smoke pot, and believe in Violence, you do shrooms, yet belive in Violence. That's all I'm asking, because this is a main republican stance, and a democrat party stance, (if you supported these candidates, and their so called secret, unspoken hope for legalization). When you say conservative, I think anti abortion, pro Christian controlled government, the regulation of only "some" plants, I mean what the fuck. Are you saying you would think to have mushrooms, marijuana legalized, then keep other plants illegal? I think people have the right to put whatever they want in their body. I even belive in the right to suicide, however not the right of murder. And yes, if their were three politicians running for government, two normal parties, and one communist with an open stance on drug legalization, international charity, and peace, I would vote for him. However a drug legalization stance, without the second two platforms, would be stupid. I would vote for a politician for these three things. I think you don't even care about the second two things, because no conservatives really care about these ideals, and definitely not the first one.

P.s, if I am wrong and conservatism means something else besides a fervent biblical preach on anti abortion, isolationism, self government greed, and religious favoring, then tell me.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #645553 - 05/26/02 07:18 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I think leftists and rightist mean something else, a little simpler, you may be right, but the main dogma associated, is that leftists wish to see great change, have no self attachment to the current government, (that can be called anti-government, or anti-authoritarium), and the rightist belive the government is right in whatever it does, these people are obsessed with serving the government without any inclination of distrust. They will persecute/lynch leftists for their view, and the leftists sometimes may respond with violent measures themselves. I am not suggesting that leftists are peaceful. Although I am, and a leftist, That is my theory on leftism, rightism. YOu can add on if you wish. I don't quite understand your first argument, that could be said of rightists as well, that was just a low blow to leftists, I mean if that can be said about both philosophies, then it is'nt just a leftist philosophy, which means it is'nt a good descriptive theory about leftism.

liberty vs coercian, check liberty
freedom vs. state control, undecided (freedom has too much dogma in this day)
individualtity vs. state conformity, check individuality, (how this is regulated by polticians I don't know)






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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #645630 - 05/26/02 08:39 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"Let me guess Great Cthulta, you smoke pot, and believe in Violence, you do shrooms, yet belive in Violence. That's all I'm asking, because this is a main republican stance, and a democrat party stance, (if you supported these candidates, and their so called secret, unspoken hope for legalization). "

Ok here goes the "mean old republican" bit..lol. Where does this come from? The wish to have a military that can defend us in times of need? Just WHAT is wrong with that? Reagan brought the Cold War to an end with our military buildup without firing a shot. What's wrong being prepared for the inevitable? ...and violence and wars in the world ARE inevitable in the future whether we are prepared or not...whether you like it or not. Peace is fine. I like peace. Not everyone in the world is satisfied with peace though now or in the forseeable future. I'd like to believe we will be prepared for any eventuality. Also for your information I am a member of neither party republican or democrat. I am a conservative independant. There is good and bad in every political party. I've voted for conservative Democrats(few as they are) and shrugged off liberal minded Republicans. I make up my own mind.

"When you say conservative, I think anti abortion, pro Christian controlled government, the regulation of only "some" plants, I mean what the fuck. Are you saying you would think to have mushrooms, marijuana legalized, then keep other plants illegal? I think people have the right to put whatever they want in their body. I even belive in the right to suicide, however not the right of murder. "

When I hear conservative I think of someone that has common sense...someone that's down to earth..two feet on the ground. You don't have to be a christian fundamentalist to be conservative minded. What other plants are you referring to when you ask "Are you saying you would think to have mushrooms, marijuana legalized, then keep other plants illegal? " ? I'd keep HARD drugs such as herion, PCP, Meth,Crack, Cocaine illegal yes. Those drugs do nothing but destroy lives. MJ, shrooms,and a few others are not hard drugs and should never have been scheduled. MJ mainly. I liken MJ as to having a beer or strong drink without the motor control lose and tendacy for violence.

"I think people have the right to put whatever they want in their body. I even belive in the right to suicide, however not the right of murder."

So let's raise hospital costs and drug related death rates from all these young fools that would get hooked on things like herion...crack..etc..etc..? It would be far worse to legalize these "hard" drugs than MJ. Can you not see this? Do you not think use would go up for "hard" drugs if they were legalized alongside MJ? I am all for personal freedom and privacy, but I don't want some GD crackhead or herion addict breaking into my home looking for dope money.
Some things are better ILLEGAL sorry. About suicide..I believe when someone is in enough pain for so long and has no hope of recovering..they should be let go if they wish it. As for some 18 year old in good health putting a gun to his head..he is MURDERING himself. Which is one thing we agree on ...people shouldn't be allowed to murder.

"And yes, if their were three politicians running for government, two normal parties, and one communist with an open stance on drug legalization, international charity, and peace, I would vote for him. However a drug legalization stance, without the second two platforms, would be stupid. I would vote for a politician for these three things. I think you don't even care about the second two things, because no conservatives really care about these ideals, and definitely not the first one. "

I just thank God that people that think like you aren't a majority..lol . I believe in peace. I also believe in being prepared for war however. War will happen as I said whether you like it or not..whether you WANT it or not. International charity? Hmm I thought we were already the world's welfare fund..lol


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #646068 - 05/26/02 01:10 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

One thing about international charity, is that we provided maybe millions, unless it is a country war torn from us conducting war there, then we provide millions. But for important international charity projects, like wells, desalitinzation plants, (fresh drinking water), power projects, etc, are only loaned half heartedly through the World Bank at extreme rates, or the better option, borrowing from Swiss banks, both options suck! But that is the position these countries are in. We could just provide these services as charity, that is good international policy, it would eliminate terrorims. We sp[end about an 100 billion dollars on internal charity every year, which is more then international aid most years. So how are we being charitable?

Studies have shown in Amsterdam that the legalization of all drugs, has decreased the amount of drug users of hard drugs.

Lastly you can't go kill people in the name of peace, it is'nt peaceful, I suggest you rethink your philosophy, just on that sentence.


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #646916 - 05/26/02 11:20 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I am all for personal freedom and privacy, but I don't want some GD crackhead or herion addict breaking into my home looking for dope money.
please, think


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Registered: 05/21/01
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #646967 - 05/27/02 12:45 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Well personally I don't think we should be the world's charity. Why should we? Maybe some other countries should be charitable to us. Providing international charity would NOT eliminate terrorism. The terrorist would eat our food, drink from our wells we dug for them, and still try to kill us. Terrorist are UNSTABLE CRAZY individuals they are not normal guys like you and me...perhaps this is what YOU see, but it is not the case. These assholes(terrorists) are EVIL. You cannot quell terrorism with charity. You can only do that by doing what the terrorist's want...over and over and over and over and over again. It's not a cycle I want to see us get into. There is another option though...KILL them. I am in favor of this. If it's between them dying and them killing innocent men,women, and children then they are the ones that should die. Now don't try to talk to me about supression...how we deserve it.. how we've treated them...because that's plan pinko BULLSHIT.

"Studies have shown in Amsterdam that the legalization of all drugs, has decreased the amount of drug users of hard drugs. "

Where are these specific studies...I would like to see them. In any case that is Amsterdam it is not the U.S. there is no way to tell if it would apply in the United States.

"Lastly you can't go kill people in the name of peace, it is'nt peaceful, I suggest you rethink your philosophy, just on that sentence. "

I never said it was ok to kill people in the name of peace. It is ok to kill people when your defending yourself. It is ok to prevent things by force that will in the future cause war. You cannot have peace when someone else doesn't want it. Why is this so hard to comprehend. Why should we be a nation of bovines ready to be slaughtered by the first war monger to come around? I'm sorry but in the real world sometimes force is the only thing some people understand.


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: raytrace]
    #646977 - 05/27/02 12:55 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"please, think"

About what? Hmm? Perhaps you didn't understand my meaning. My meaning was I'm all for personal freedom , but when it comes to hard drugs that's where my support evaporates. I do not believe in legalizing crack...herion..etc. I believe in the long run doing so would cause 10 times more trouble than eradicating it. Perhaps your referring to if crack and such was legalized they wouldn't have a need to break into my home? ...and why not..when they spend all their hard earned money on crack they are still going to want more whether they legally buy it or illegally steal from and murder someone for it. What's going to stop them from stealing or killing to get it just because it's legal?? Perhaps you don't understand the power some of these hard drugs hold over people. I have seen it..seen friends become thieving worthless bastards over it. I KNOW what it's like. You do not want shit like crack legal(.)


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #646985 - 05/27/02 01:03 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

yeah,, your right man, I don't know what i was thinking.


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Offlinemrfreedom
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #648235 - 05/27/02 05:35 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think a leftist think tank would be a good idea. I don't think a rightist think tank would be a good idea. I think legalizing drugs would be a good thing. I think suicide is a good thing. I think giving money to other countrys is a bad thing. I think a communist politician would not get but one vote, and that from his mom.

Instead of arguing against anybody, which I hate to do, I will just support MY position(s).
If drugs are legal, ALL DRUGS, there will be a surgance of use, similar to what happend in the days when alcohol was illegal. After, the surgance, the use will die off. The mass drug addiction will never show, because repsonsible adults will use and then stop; just like repsponsible adults have a couple of drinks and then stop. I am not worried about those that do become addicted, considering that the price will drop significantly, addicts will be able to get what they need cheap.
I am not worried about hospital bills from addicts. The taxes raised by the new legal drugs will be used to offset the cost in public hospitals. Overdoses will also be reduced, the addicts will now know what and of what quality drugs they get.

Suicide, I like it; it solves problems unequivocally. If suicide were legal, then perhaps, people wouldn't hide it when they had thoughts of suicide. Certainly, if one is dying, or has an affliction that is incurable then suicide could be an avenue to ending the pain. Of course, if doctors could use HEROIN then they could end the patience pain without killing them. I see no reason to limit a persons control of their lives to the extent that we (the government) tells them just how long they have to live.

Of course, the argument exists, of limited government for the good of the public.
But, that is an immoral stance, if you believe in individual freedom, then there is no way to reconcile the stance of involving government in personal choices. Whether that choice what kind of drug to use or when to end my life.
To protect a person from themselves must, necessarily mean, invading the most personal parts of their lives. An intrusion that most would find repugnant, but those same people are MORE than happy to vote for someone to do it for them.


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #648943 - 05/28/02 04:54 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

nice & clear

except the "I think giving money to other countrys is a bad thing"

can you explain this any further, please


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #649019 - 05/28/02 06:33 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

****leftist think tank***

WOW that's an oxymoron if i've ever seen one

I'm not a right slanted person i tend to lean the libertarian way, however leftests don't support MJ laws any more than republicrates do. Can you name how many pro pot laws the leftists have made in lets say the last 30 years? That's right, just the same as the spinless ones on the right.

****I guess us leftists (if any) are all very stupid, uneducated, and obseesed with trivial concepts such as peace, and the cultivation of scheduled substances, it's almost too simple****

you said it not me

****Nader of the green party, greenparty.org****

The reason people don't support him is because he's a nutjob that would make a terrible president. I do like the idea of legalized MJ but outside of that Nadar has nothing to offer. He's a socialist with an agenda hid in the shadows of MJ legalization.

****Why can't we all open up to the inner peaceful, charitable green party merit***

see above explanation


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #649170 - 05/28/02 08:44 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"I don't think a leftist think tank would be a good idea. I don't think a rightist think tank would be a good idea. I think legalizing drugs would be a good thing. I think suicide is a good thing. I think giving money to other countrys is a bad thing. I think a communist politician would not get but one vote, and that from his mom."

I agree with most everything there. Except legalizing ALL drugs for public recreational consumption and suicide being a good thing.

"If drugs are legal, ALL DRUGS, there will be a surgance of use, similar to what happend in the days when alcohol was illegal. After, the surgance, the use will die off. The mass drug addiction will never show, because repsonsible adults will use and then stop; just like repsponsible adults have a couple of drinks and then stop. "

I hope you know what you say here is your THEORY of what would happen. There is no way to tell if it would actually be the case. So you would legalize Crack and smack for public consumption and hope that the users of these substances would be "responsible adults" and just drop them like a snap? Have you ever tried either of these substances? It takes an incredibly strong will power to come off an addiction to either as well as causing physical withdrawl symptoms.
I do not share your THEORY about hard drug legalization.

"I am not worried about those that do become addicted, considering that the price will drop significantly, addicts will be able to get what they need cheap. "

It won't be cheap enough when they lose they're jobs, families, homes,...and perhaps their very lives to the drug they become slave too. I've seen people spend their entire paycheck on crack and coke...yet STILL want more.

"I am not worried about hospital bills from addicts. The taxes raised by the new legal drugs will be used to offset the cost in public hospitals. Overdoses will also be reduced, the addicts will now know what and of what quality drugs they get."

Umm...why legalize them in the first place if you have to pay it out for medical support for addicts. Waste.
Overdoes would not be reduced because #1: You have far more users. #2: Most hard drug addicts will always get to the "just a little more" point..especially with Herion regardless if it's legal or illegal.

"Suicide, I like it; it solves problems unequivocally. If suicide were legal, then perhaps, people wouldn't hide it when they had thoughts of suicide. Certainly, if one is dying, or has an affliction that is incurable then suicide could be an avenue to ending the pain. Of course, if doctors could use HEROIN then they could end the patience pain without killing them. "

If someone wants to kill themself...REALLY wants it. Then there is nothing that can be done even with suicide illegal they will do it. I think a law legalizing suicide might actually encourage those thinking of it to think of it even more "it's legal now...maybe it isn't so bad" but it IS bad. Bad for their families and bad for them...they are murdering themselves. Anyone in their right sane mind would not support someone killing themself if they were not in extreme physical pain and near death with no hope of recovery. What if Thor the current adminstrator of the Shroomery were to express a real desire to kill himself for something simple..stupid.. like perhaps his girlfriend broke up with him..or anyone else here that's well known and liked. Would the members of this board tell him it's his choice, just stand by and watch passively, or would they try to talk him out of it? It boggles the mind why ANYONE would favor legalizing suicide except in EXTREME medical cases. It's plain idiotic..or just evil lol. The government isn't telling you how long you can live. You could die tommorrow of natural causes..or an accident..a mugging. The government is telling you to not unnaturally end your life because you are MENTALLY ILL. What SANE person wants to kill themselves?
To point out I never said anything about not legalizing some hard drugs for medical use...though I can't see much medical use for cocaine...besides a local anesthesia for dentists lol.

"Of course, the argument exists, of limited government for the good of the public.
But, that is an immoral stance, if you believe in individual freedom, then there is no way to reconcile the stance of involving government in personal choices. Whether that choice what kind of drug to use or when to end my life.
To protect a person from themselves must, necessarily mean, invading the most personal parts of their lives. An intrusion that most would find repugnant, but those same people are MORE than happy to vote for someone to do it for them. "

Oh to hell with it let's just let it ride..start an Anarchy. No laws..you can't tell someone when not to steal..when not to murder...when not to rape...when to murder themselves. Screw it you can't tell people what to do at all without invading their personal lives so why have any laws at all? Amusing view you have. I'm afraid you MUST have a government. You MUST have some laws. Society cannot function properly without government(.)




--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #649199 - 05/28/02 09:09 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Society cannot function properly without government

This simply isn't true. The agents of the state would like us to believe that the government and society are one in the same but many societies throughout history have functioned quite well without a government. I do realize that most contemporary societies are very much controlled by governments but societies predate governments. I recommend that you read "Society Against The State" by Pierrre Clastres.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #649235 - 05/28/02 09:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Last year I shared some of these well known views with democrats and republican currently holding office. One famous one Barbara Mikulski polititely spammed me with her views for about a week straight. (she is the leader of the ONDCP) I think she was taking her job too seriously, However a nobody democrat, explained to me, that these types of illegalization laws are out of the hands of freedom of vote, rather they are in the hands of the United Nations, completely out of our power.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #649296 - 05/28/02 10:09 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I hope you don't hold the majority thought of the people, just becuase, I could never act like you do, if I acted like you did towards some of the people who I have met, they would have probraly commited crime against me, or violence, just because they are not mindful.

For example, you meet a friend's cousin who has become homeless, your cousin tells him to come visit you, he comes inside, you only know he is your cousin, but you get to know the guy, you find out he is homeless, you would just kick the guy out your house, even after he knew where you lived. Probraly he might come back to rob you.

Another example, America's food supply is quite large and overproduced, Aghanistan experienses a drought, but because of the trade embargo, a u.n. special team is sent in to enforce the border better, now, our newspapers did advertise this drought, however a charity for the afghanistan victims was'nt even in the paper, so did our government solve the problem the way you did? They did, and see what happens, they did'nt solve it until, it was to their benefit, when they could become powerful off it, at least sell the food, or loan it to them. Now I wish I was rich, but the fact is that I was half starving upon reading this paper walking through a store, eating food while browsing the isles, and munching on the free samples, so I really could'nt do anything. But our government had the money, and food to help these people regardless of the government there. Just two different views on handling the situation. One is the way I would do, hopefully the party I have to vote it, but it did'nt happen, and the only groups you can hold responsible are the ones in office, which happen to be all republicans, democrats, so why don't we replace both of these political parties, with new bigger parties, that way we can be sure we stopped the problem of incompetance in the government. Otherwise we all be killing our cousin's friends's when they come to rob food from you at night. I would'nt feel right after doing that.



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Offlinemrfreedom
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #649584 - 05/28/02 01:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"giving money to other countrys"
I won't waste your time or bandwidth explaining why government intrusion is immoral. I have already explained it, THOROUGHLY, in another post; just do a search on "tyranny of the majority.
As to the drug issue, I do know what will happen, we did this illegal drug thing before, it was called prohibition. It failed, miserably. What we have learned in the meantime is, that "one cannot legislate the apetites of men" and that EDUCATION is the best tool for reducing drug harm.
Why is it that noone can consider the real issue of drug legalization? I'll tell you why. Because you want me to live by YOUR rules. My taking drugs does you no harm, my stealing from you does; why can't people see that there is a distinct difference between these two actions?
Yes, for your information I started "shooting" cocaine when I was 16. I was/ am a drug addict, I don't see the relevance to the argument though. I worked, finished high school and joined the navy, all under the influence of cocaine.

Of course you don't share my theory of drug legalization, you want me to live by your standards and beliefs. You don't believe in individual liberty. You believe in the "big brother" theory of government.

It is this stance that keeps you from seeing suicide as a MORAL, PERSONAL choice. Should a person seek help when they have thoughts of suicide? OF COURSE. Should a person consider the effect on those that love them? YES.
Should a person, having an sought help, having sought reasurance from their family, be prevented from suicide? NO. It is up to each individual to determine, for themselves, what constitutes quality life. It is not my choice to make; even after all that I have gone through in my life, suicide was never a serious consideration.
There are lots of "sane" people that wish to end their lives all the time. Most because of debilitating disease.

You can't tell people what to do, unless what they are doing could result in direct harm to you or your property. To say that someones drug addiction causes you harm is not valid unless that particular person is stealing from you or in some other way constitutes a DIRECT harm to your libety's.

I believe in laws that keep me safe from stupid people. Like murder being illegal, this is a good thing, however, suicide is not murder; murder is murder.
I don't believe in ANY law that purports to protect ME from MYSELF. If I want to die, or use drugs then I should be educated on the consequences of BOTH. I should be encouraged to seek phsychological help but I should not be held at the end of a gun and told to LIVE THIS WAY or I will go to prison. SHould I be held at the end of a gun and told DON'T HARM OTHERS? HELL YESS. And I'll hold the gun myself.


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #650247 - 05/28/02 10:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"This simply isn't true. The agents of the state would like us to believe that the government and society are one in the same but many societies throughout history have functioned quite well without a government. I do realize that most contemporary societies are very much controlled by governments but societies predate governments. I recommend that you read "Society Against The State" by Pierrre Clastres."

Yeah really? Name me ONE country that has in the past that functioned efficiently without some type of government...some type of laws or legal system. Maybe your trying to talk about American Indians...or another PRIMITIVE culture/society. I'm afraid even these had tribal laws. Without laws you get people just doing whatever the hell they want with no consequences for their actions..no not everyone but you get those that do. You get this even with laws but at least there is punishment for these fools with a legal system.
Evolve some common sense.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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