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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
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starfire_xes said: Im anything that doesn't get get (R) or (D) put beside it. i mean, those idiots spent the last forty or fifty years running the country into the ground. And they got the majority of people thinking that since government is so shitty and bad, we need more of it to fix things.  
Actually, the people who most ran the country into the ground are the ones who said things like "government IS the problem."
Can you give us a list of those people? Also how is the government NOT the problem? Who do you think racked up 20 Trillion dollars in debt, blue collar workers?

Well the quote is from Reagan, who slashed the tax rates on rich people and contributed significantly to the national debt, so you can start there.
Yeah, Reagan was who came to mind when you said this for me too.
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burgerbrain said: I see you couldn't answer any of my questions.
Are you trolling? Seriously he directly answered your question and you continue to quibble over the definition of socialism with people way more informed than you about the subject.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover


Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Can you give us a list of those people? Also how is the government NOT the problem? Who do you think racked up 20 Trillion dollars in debt, blue collar workers?
He said "Reagan" .. Guess he answered the questions! LOL
You must be a troll.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: Can you give us a list of those people? Also how is the government NOT the problem? Who do you think racked up 20 Trillion dollars in debt, blue collar workers?
He said "Reagan" .. Guess he answered the questions! LOL
You must be a troll.
He did answer the question. Hence me asking if you were trolling. It was an honest question.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 46 minutes, 16 seconds
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two things ignorant people hate:
nuance grey area
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Two things liberals hate:
Logic Results
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 46 minutes, 16 seconds
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Im sure you can back that up with a list of conservative nations with more logic and better results than the US, which is already particularly conservative by international standards.
Right?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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The United States, became rich through capitalism, indebted by socialism, once we began incorporating more socialist programs, we began incurring debt...
NO president, since the fifties has actually lowered the debt, that's a fact...
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 46 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The United States, became rich through capitalism, indebted by socialism, once we began incorporating more socialist programs, we began incurring debt...
NO president, since the fifties has actually lowered the debt, that's a fact...
So every president after the 50s was a socialist?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Presidents don't set the budget. Will you please call Pat Sajack and buy not a vowel but a clue
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The United States, became rich through capitalism, indebted by socialism, once we began incorporating more socialist programs, we began incurring debt...
NO president, since the fifties has actually lowered the debt, that's a fact...
So every president after the 50s was a socialist?
That's not what I said, are you trying to straw man?
It is clear when the United States started accruing debt, with the advent of unsustainable socialist programs, just like every other country... And it's been snowballing ever since...
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 46 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Presidents don't set the budget. Will you please call Pat Sajack and buy not a vowel but a clue
The other dude put it on the presidents, trust me i know better.
But wait, whats the graph in your sig implying?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 46 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The United States, became rich through capitalism, indebted by socialism, once we began incorporating more socialist programs, we began incurring debt...
NO president, since the fifties has actually lowered the debt, that's a fact...
So every president after the 50s was a socialist?
That's not what I said, are you trying to straw man?
It is clear when the United States started accruing debt, with the advent of unsustainable socialist programs, just like every other country... And it's been snowballing ever since...
If socialist programs are unsustainable debt accruers, explain how nations with more socialist programs have less debt than us.
Youre only looking at one side of the equation, costs, and ignoring revenue. Taxes across the board have dropped and dropped since the 50s as well, yet thats strangely absent from your premise.
For example: In 1952, corporate taxes accounted for 33% of all federal tax revenue. Today, corporate taxes account for 9%.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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>That's not what I said, are you trying to straw man?
Of course he is. Presidents sign bills, or they can veto them. They also have other ways of getting what they want.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 46 minutes, 16 seconds
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I dont know how Stonehenge thinks he knows what im trying to do when he has me on ignore
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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1) Let's see how far this thread can go before we can come up with someone OUTSIDE of government who increased our debt and fucked things up.
2) If someone OUTSIDE of government fucked things up and
a) Violated a law, lets see how the government held them accountable... or why the government let them get away with it... or
b) Violated no law, did the government put laws into place that corrected the issue, and did they work?..
c) If laws were put into place and the same shit happened what did the government do to fix it...
I think we will see that the people that are responsible for the state of the US are (whom?)
3) Do any of you think that after 50 years of expanding government and government power we are better off?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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3) the liberals will blame the conservatives, they always do, personally I blame both parties but libs just don't see it that way, they think their side is infallible and if we just put the right people in charge, spend even more, things will get better...
look at the horrible state that detroit is in, run by ONLY liberals for the last 50 years and they still blame someone else for their own failures...
it really is such a childish mentality...
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: 3) the liberals will blame the conservatives, they always do, personally I blame both parties but libs just don't see it that way, they think their side is infallible and if we just put the right people in charge, spend even more, things will get better...
look at the horrible state that detroit is in, run by ONLY liberals for the last 50 years and they still blame someone else for their own failures...
it really is such a childish mentality...
That's true, and many of the more extreme moonbats will deny the obvious. Since obumble is a lib dem and did all those rotten things, they say he is a conservative. In their simple minds, lib = good and conservative = bad no matter the facts. When things go wrong all they know how to do is look for a conservative to blame.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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worked has picked the fuck up but just wanted to pop in and lol at the complete misunderstanding of the political spectrum, neo-conservative base ideas and the absolute skewed american conservative/liberal meta.
American gov't consist of two pro-business parties.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 46 minutes, 16 seconds
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: 1) Let's see how far this thread can go before we can come up with someone OUTSIDE of government who increased our debt and fucked things up.
2) If someone OUTSIDE of government fucked things up and
a) Violated a law, lets see how the government held them accountable... or why the government let them get away with it... or
b) Violated no law, did the government put laws into place that corrected the issue, and did they work?..
c) If laws were put into place and the same shit happened what did the government do to fix it...
I think we will see that the people that are responsible for the state of the US are (whom?)
3) Do any of you think that after 50 years of expanding government and government power we are better off?
1. So now youre backtracking on your admission that corporate influence is corrupting government?
2. a, b, c: if corporations are bribing government to get their way, something tells me part of getting their way means making sure no laws are created to prevent them from getting their way.
3. "expanding government" is such a meaningless term. Just because thr debt has gone up doesnt mean government power has expanded. Tax rates have fallen, industries deregulated, etc.
This is my biggest beef with you man. You readily accept that big business and the super rich have bent our government to their will, but still cant get over the intellectual hump of "big government ruins everything."
Ive used this analogy before, but lets say corporations are the mob and the police are thr government. The mob has so much money and power that theyve turned most of the department into crooked cops. Shrinking the government to fix our corporation caused problems is like defunding the police department to get rid of the mob.
Government is our only tool to fix the problems that we Americans face. We cant throw that tool in the trash. Theres a reason the Kochs are spending $1 billion this election cycle, and its because throwing a wrench in our democratic gears is the only way they get to keep the game going.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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no i haven't accepted that they have bent the government to their will. I accept that they do what the government lets them do.
who controls who is in the government?
By the way, its much easier to control a small government at the state level...that is where the people's real power is held.
""Everyone's repesentative and senators are bad.......' (except mine)
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