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Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650611 - 05/29/02 05:05 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Name me ONE country that has in the past that functioned efficiently without some type of government...some type of laws or legal system. Maybe your trying to talk about American Indians...or another PRIMITIVE culture/society. I'm afraid even these had tribal laws

Funny, your original post stated,
I'm afraid you MUST have a government. You MUST have some laws. Society cannot function properly without government(.)

You did not state "country", you stated "society." No where did you state whether or not the society has to avoid conforming with your opinion of what constitutes "PRIMITIVE." There have been (and may still be) some societies without governments that functioned perfectly well until governments came and destroyed them. Such societies do/did not have an organization that had a monopoly on the use of force, that means no government. They do/did however have, strong societal norms and methods for maintaining peace within their ranks. To have a country requires a government, so to give of an example of a country without a government would not be possible.

Evolve some common sense

Perhaps I should evolve the ability to read minds because you lack the common sense to state what you mean. It really makes no sense to insult others when they properly comprehend your words as written and you did not write what you really meant to say.

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Offlinemrfreedom
journeyman
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Registered: 11/21/01
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650624 - 05/29/02 05:13 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

My thinking is NOT flawed. My arguments are well supported and fundamentaly logical. I resent your assertion that I want drugs legal for the purpose of using cocaine. I was clean and sober for 9 years, 4 months and 6 days; at that point I started experimenting with shrooms. I also smoke a little weed, it helps with the nausea of large shroom doses. My relationship with other drugs is a moot point. I don't use any other drugs. Well, I did have a beer while watching the super bowl this year, but no other drugs than that which I have stated.

Yes, recreational drugs are just that; for recreation. Surely, even you can admit that alcohol, is addictive (not as addictive as heroin or NICOTINE) and long term use leads to bad/criminal behavior. Try to make a distinction between the lives torn apart by alcohol, and the lives torn apart by another drug, and you will see that the main difference is in the price and availability. This is because some drugs are illegal. I don't suggest that drugs don't harm the individual that uses them; they do/can. What I do suggest is that the crimes that you speak of would dissapear overnight if drugs were legalized.

You are not excercising any rationality in your argument. I have, on three occasions, pointed out that their is a difference between an act, murder, that causes harm to another and an act, shooting heroin, that causes harm to an individual.

You say that your despise big brother government, yet you insist that it is ok to tell people what to do with their lives and bodys. How can you reconcile these to stances? Either you believe in individual liberty and the pursuit of happiness(even if that happiness is just to "feel good" for a few hours) or you believe in legislating how a person should live.

I think that an 18 year old commiting suicide is tragic. After counseling, perhaps pharmacutical drug therapy and the support of his family, maybe he won't do it. But WHY should it be illegal? On what basis to you think we should interfer further? Your answer can ONLY be to PROTECT HIM FROM HIMSELF.

For me, since you asked, and I have a living will to this effect, noone turns off the machines, the doctors may consider ANY surgery that may help if I am unable to make that decision for myself; in short, until I am stiff and cold, I will fight to take another breath.

Don't call me stupid, don't dis-respect me concerning aspects of my life that are
1. irrelevant to the argument at hand
2. none of your business
3. simply rude in any setting.
I think that I have been respectful of your person, while, addmitedly disagreeing with your stance. I demand the same courtesy from you.

Oh yeah, animal suicides?
LEMMINGS.

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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #650633 - 05/29/02 05:17 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

You have made an excellent post Mrfreedom but I have to inform you that Lemmings do not commit suicide...that is just a myth.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #650809 - 05/29/02 07:38 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

"You did not state "country", you stated "society." No where did you state whether or not the society has to avoid conforming with your opinion of what constitutes "PRIMITIVE." There have been (and may still be) some societies without governments that functioned perfectly well until governments came and destroyed them. "

Name a few.


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

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Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650932 - 05/29/02 09:16 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

A few examples of societies without a government (an organization which exercises a monopoly on the use of force):
1) Iceland from about 930 to1262.
2) The Iroquois; the Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas, Cayugas, Senecas and the Tuscaroras.
3) The Hurons.
4) The Kapuaka of New Guinea.
5) The Tupi-Guarani of South America.

It is self evident that the development of societies predates the creation of government. Is that concept so hard to accept?

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Offlinemrfreedom
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #650942 - 05/29/02 09:21 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, I admit it, I just popped of with lemmings from the top of my head. Very bad thing to do. Lemming suicide is a myth. I was unable to find an animal that commits suicide without exigent circumstances. One such being a termite. They can and do explode their bodys in battle. There was also reference to beaching whales, but seemed inconclusive. But, like I said that is in consideration of their circumstances.

" Lemming suicide is fiction. Contrary to popular belief, lemmings do not periodically hurl themselves off of cliffs and into the sea. Cyclical explosions in population do occasionally induce lemmings to attempt to migrate to areas of lesser population density. When such a migration occurs, some lemmings die by falling over cliffs or drowning in lakes or rivers. These deaths are not deliberate "suicide" attempts, however, but accidental deaths resulting from the lemmings' venturing into unfamiliar territories and being crowded and pushed over dangerous ledges. In fact, when the competition for food, space, or mates becomes too intense, lemmings are much more likely to kill each other than to kill themselves. "

On the other hand, I aslo wasn't able to find an animal that could, or would discuss politics or philosophy. Nor was I able to find another animal that could build a car, or an airplane or a complex philosophical argument. I fail to see the relevance, of bringing animals into the argument of suicide. If discussing animals were relevant then I think a strong case could be made for murder; I just had a hamburger.

GC. I don't have a problem with your views, you are entitled to have them, whatever they are. But, I see the views you expressed as the ultimate expression of the evil that surrounds the laws concerning drugs and the WOD's in particular. This is NOT a personal attack on you, I don't know you. You and I could probably share a spliff over a campfire and discuss the full nature of our political system without ever raising our voices. What this is, fairly, is an attack on those like you.

Those persons with some capacity for rational thought. Those without religious rationalizations for their belief systems. I can forgive a religous knothead for their silliness, irrational thought processes and even their immoral meddeling in my personal life. But what do I do with people like you?

You and people like you are rational, you admit that weed being illegal is foolish and detrimental to life in the US. But, people like you are an impossible conflict. When you support legalization of a certain drug but not others, you admit on one hand that the WOD's is foolish, that it punishes people, NOT for what they do to others, but what they do to themselves. Yet, you insist that you have to be the one to decide WHAT it is that I may or may not do with or to my body. You don't want to see people hurt themselves, while an admirable trait, it begs the question; who decides for me, how I will live or die?(again, I am just writing this in the first person; I don't mean JUST you but the mind set shared by others as well)

This, wholly natural concern for our fellow man, is a trait that I share, believe it or not. What you and others like you suggest, is, that while you support individual liberty, you don't respect me enough to allow me to live as I see fit; in whatever capacity that may be. I don't fear the religous person, I could, once upon a time, just tell them that I don't believe the way they do and that would be that. I would be left alone to account for my "sins". But, you and others like you, know better, you know that there is a component of independence that is required to live a fullfiling life.

People that share this system of invasive politics are purponents of big brother government. Surely you can see this. You tell me that you loath big brother government but support the attack of, otherwise peacful people, because they like a drug that you don't. By this insistance, you are FORCING them to live by YOUR standards, and when you do it by legislation then you ARE supporting big brother government.

The slippery slope arguments you give are just examples of the nature of your fallacy. The example I am refering to is the one about the 18 year old that commits suicide because his girlfriend left him. This is a "slippery slope argument", towit, that one would let others engage in this action to their deteriment leads necessarily to ending the rights of ALL who would engage in this action.

By the use of the slippery slope arguement are ALL personal freedoms curtailed. Not because the masses engage in rational recreational drug use, nor because extremely ill people choose to end their lives with some measure of dignity, but because the minute few act irresponsibly and that is what this argument boils down to. Your mind set, thoughts, beliefs, call them what you will, allows you, in your arguments, to remove from ALL adults the reason, right and RESPONSIBILITY, that goes along with liberty.

I don't think you see this, that you replace my libertys with your belief system. Further, that you think it is ok to do this and that you do so with a slippery slope argument. This is the very thing that makes you and those that think like you so dangerous. It is with this, "I'll let you be free but only with certain things; and I get to pick those things" that allowed religous groups their unprecedented ability to enact laws limiting personal freedoms on the basis of sin and not on harm to others. I find this non-religous mind set that you and many others share MORE dangerous than even Jerry Falwell.

At least I can argue with Jerrry that because I don't share his belief in the bible that I have a right to live as I see fit. I can't argue this with you, you reject my beliefs not on a religous basis, but on the basis that, YOU KNOW BETTER THAN ME, HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE.


I do share your concern of my fellow man. I didn't learn CPR so I could use it on myself. I just find your arguments bandied about in the political forum and the media every day. What one CANNOT argue from a religous point, one may argue from a point of protecting the individual. This is wrong, it has gone way to far and, admittedly, I find no way to "fall back from the precepice". There are laws in place to allow medical use of marijuana but the people that believe like you, politicians mostly, who are afraid to come right out and say "it's a sin", will GLADLY say that they are only doing it because they love me. And then they throw my ass in prison for a decade, not because I hurt someone, but because I grew a plant in my closet.

I allow that no matter what my arguments to the contrary, that I will never,ever change your mind on any of these issues. I don't agree to disagree, that is giving up, and, since I am still breathing I can't give up.
I will however, leave this particular topic. I see no point in further debate at this time, and I feel that the original topic has gotten lost in our little tit for tat debate.

However,I reserve the right to engage in other topics, though substantialy outnumbered I will continue in my quest for freedom, for me and others like me.


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Posts: 311
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #650973 - 05/29/02 09:35 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

"My thinking is NOT flawed. My arguments are well supported and fundamentaly logical. I resent your assertion that I want drugs legal for the purpose of using cocaine. I was clean and sober for 9 years, 4 months and 6 days; at that point I started experimenting with shrooms. I also smoke a little weed, it helps with the nausea of large shroom doses. My relationship with other drugs is a moot point. I don't use any other drugs. Well, I did have a beer while watching the super bowl this year, but no other drugs than that which I have stated."

You made it appear you were an ongoing coke addict with the assertion you made "was/am an addict" directly after saying you starting shooting coke at 16. I do not consider people that smoke MJ or eat mushrooms "addicts". These drugs are not physically addictive. You do not get hardcore physical withdrawl symptoms from these drugs.

"Yes, recreational drugs are just that; for recreation. Surely, even you can admit that alcohol, is addictive (not as addictive as heroin or NICOTINE) and long term use leads to bad/criminal behavior. Try to make a distinction between the lives torn apart by alcohol, and the lives torn apart by another drug, and you will see that the main difference is in the price and availability. "

Yes alcohol is addictive..but as you said yourself it's nothing like some hardcore drugs like herion. Alcohol can be used responsibly without getting it's hooks into you. Those that abuse it are the ones that end up destroying their lives. I don't subscribe to the theory herion,coke,crack,PCP, etc. can be used responsibly in any way..except use by the medical field. The difference is the drug not price and availability. Herion and crack are stronger than any alcoholic bevarage. They grab you and say "want me MORE" .

"What I do suggest is that the crimes that you speak of would dissapear overnight if drugs were legalized."

I don't subscribe to this THEORY.

"You are not excercising any rationality in your argument. I have, on three occasions, pointed out that their is a difference between an act, murder, that causes harm to another and an act, shooting heroin, that causes harm to an individual."

I've tried to explain in much of this thread what my meaning is on this. Those that use hard drugs are causing harm to themselves as individuals aye. These hard drugs however can cause highly erratic behavior. These hard drugs can take over someones life to the point they care for nothing else and if their supply runs out ..they run out of money...out of options..what are they going to do when their pet monkeys start pounding on their backs? Whatever it takes I suppose..which might include breaking laws..robbing people...whatever. So now this addict is causing others harm by his hard drug use.

"You say that your despise big brother government, yet you insist that it is ok to tell people what to do with their lives and bodys. How can you reconcile these to stances? Either you believe in individual liberty and the pursuit of happiness(even if that happiness is just to "feel good" for a few hours) or you believe in legislating how a person should live."

If someone pursues happiness at my expense or other innocent people's expense then yes there should be laws to prevent it. Even if it's something(hard drugs) that may start out with it only causing themselves harm then turn into them causing harm to others to aquire their artificial happiness.

"I think that an 18 year old commiting suicide is tragic. After counseling, perhaps pharmacutical drug therapy and the support of his family, maybe he won't do it. But WHY should it be illegal? On what basis to you think we should interfer further? Your answer can ONLY be to PROTECT HIM FROM HIMSELF."

Ok..."After counseling, perhaps pharmacutical drug therapy" so you admit here that this person would be MENTALLY ILL and should seek "pharmacutical drug therapy" and "counseling" who else but someone ill would seek such treatment. Do we not protect ourselves from mentally ill people? Do we not attempt to cure them? We certainly don't let them go about attacking and murdering people. So...WHY NOT protect them from themselves..why not keep them from murdering themselves? They are mentally ill in the first place. Contemplating suicide is not normal rational thought. Even those that may actually need to be let go if they wish would not NORMALLY want to die if not for their severe physical pain and anguish or being on their last legs anyway.

"For me, since you asked, and I have a living will to this effect, noone turns off the machines, the doctors may consider ANY surgery that may help if I am unable to make that decision for myself; in short, until I am stiff and cold, I will fight to take another breath."

That's good to know. I can look forward to destroying your arguments for a long time to come .

"Don't call me stupid, don't dis-respect me concerning aspects of my life that are
1. irrelevant to the argument at hand
2. none of your business
3. simply rude in any setting.
I think that I have been respectful of your person, while, addmitedly disagreeing with your stance. I demand the same courtesy from you."

Ok...yeah...yeah..I was out of line calling your logic stupid. Is it still ok if I call you a Pablem Puking Fence Post?
About delving into your life..I had/have no interest in your personal life. Your the one that brought it into the picture. I admittedly mistook what you said, but if you go back and reread how you posted it you'll see how easy it was to come to my mistaken conclusion about your (old) coke habit.
Do you think I'm rude ? I've seen ruder on this board...lol.

"Oh yeah, animal suicides?
LEMMINGS. "

Already answered above by the other fellow.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #651017 - 05/29/02 09:53 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

We don't live in primitive times. Primitive culture has not much place in this day and age. Your saying these tribes and peoples had no laws to govern them? NONE? I quote 5.b. entry for Government in the Webster Dictonary ... "b : the complex of political institutions, laws, and customs through which the function of governing is carried out" . An Indian Cheif(Main Entry: 1chief
Pronunciation: 'chEf 1 : accorded highest rank or office) constitutes a position in a governing body..even if the Cheif is the only governing body. I'm sure most if not all of the tribes/peoples you named had local tribal LAWS to govern them ..the does and don'ts to your own people..or else you get punished. A basic law would be that of murdering your own people without cause. That would be a law of almost any peoples in any time. This is government...primitive government but it IS government.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651025 - 05/29/02 09:56 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I doubt you have ever even met a heroin addict, or visited the city of Baltimore Great Cthultu, I used to deal with these guys on a day to day basis. they have no education, one of them will argue until he beats you up, that you cannot support one drug use over another, even marijuana, if you were to smoke marijuana with this person, he would immediately reprimand you for not doing heroin, if you tried to explain of the business aspect, that I don't support the makers, he would get lost in my logic, the fact is that, drug illegaliation does not exist to encourage all drug use, it encourages the act of responsible drug use. Safer drugs would become more popular, because they have a choice, a choice not dependant on money, most of the time in Balitimore you could find a 20 rock, or heroin pill in 5 minutes compared to looking all night for weed, also crack and heroin are cheaper then weed. this directly shows that people do the drugs which are cheapest. If Balitimore was flooded with dirt cheap shrooms, mescaline pills, and lsd, kind nugs, then crack and heroin would be pushed out of the picture. But as you can see, no mafia oriented families do business with these substances like this. So my final point is that all drugs should be illegalized, better, safer drugs, should have the chance to "capitilize" in this free market. Eventually the best drugs will survive as useful. If heroin were to survive, then maybe we would all realize that the drug is fine. Maybe people would start to use opium instead of heroin. Alot of middle eastern cooks alwasy cook with opium, to the extent that maybe they don't even smoke it. Opium is much safer on the body then heroin. Now, another point is that we should still keep the police active on drug research, make sure that they continue to research what new legal drugs are on the market, and when a new unsafe drug appears, educate poeple about it truthfully, if people have the right to suicide, they have the right to use any drug on the market. Education without bias, always serves to educate.

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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651028 - 05/29/02 09:58 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

If i was to come meet your "click" and introduce myself, would one person most likely talk to me more then another person. I might as well claim this person is powerful, your tribe leader, and ask to impose laws on your click through this person, fuck websters!

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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Registered: 05/21/01
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #651072 - 05/29/02 10:24 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I've not known a herion addict persay, but I've known crackheads ,methheads, and pill junkies. The pill junkies aren't bad...when they have their pet monkey tamed. Crackheads turn into the shit of the earth even if they are/were a friend. Methheads the same.
If you want safer drugs to become more popular legalize them...MJ..mushrooms..cactus, but don't legalize bullshit like crack. Hard drug use may very well drop in usage so why legalize them and increase the consumer market for it? Just to say you can go buy a rock at the corner market if you want?

"Eventually the best drugs will survive as useful. If heroin were to survive, then maybe we would all realize that the drug is fine. Maybe people would start to use opium instead of heroin."

Herion is NOT fine. Herion is liquid heaven. Liquid heaven is a hard thing to kick even after a first try. It's just too bad this liquid heaven carries a heavy toll.

"Now, another point is that we should still keep the police active on drug research, make sure that they continue to research what new legal drugs are on the market, and when a new unsafe drug appears, educate poeple about it truthfully, if people have the right to suicide, they have the right to use any drug on the market. Education without bias, always serves to educate. "



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Posts: 311
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #651074 - 05/29/02 10:25 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

"If i was to come meet your "click" and introduce myself, would one person most likely talk to me more then another person. I might as well claim this person is powerful, your tribe leader, and ask to impose laws on your click through this person, fuck websters! "



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651076 - 05/29/02 10:28 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

yeah right man, heroin is'nt that great, I've done every single differnt heroin strain that is in Baltimore, My own personal training to become a cop, but yeah, I kicked the habit immediately, I hated the drug, you can feel how it fucks your dopamine receptors immediately. People do heroin, because it's cheap, and in doing it, helps promote their sales, period.

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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: mrfreedom]
    #651180 - 05/29/02 11:19 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not going to get into a long response to your last post...more because I'm tired and need some more "meat slow down amino acids" in my stomach.
You basically think that I believe I know better than you how to run your own life. If your willing to become a crack(or other hard drug) addict then yes I'd say I would know better on that aspect of your life. The former was hypothetical. It doesn't take religion to realize some things are just all around bad and that if you legalize them you have more trouble than it's worth. Doesn't take religion to realize murder is bad and should be illegal does it? Nor does it take religion for me to know that things like crack are bad. Bad things shouldn't be legal. They shouldn't be encouraged.

And yes I am totally evil. My whole argument in this thread has been B.S. I could care less about you humans..other than keeping most of you alive until I can get each and every last human on this planet drive them insane, torture them slowly, or just use them as tiny playthings for a time before eating them. That means no abortion...no suicide..and no hard drugs for you to O.D. on and kill each other over. There must be plenty of fresh flesh for the Old Ones when they return.
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil? http://www.cthulhu.org/



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
enthusiast

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Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #651193 - 05/29/02 11:21 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

"I hated the drug, you can feel how it fucks your dopamine receptors immediately. People do heroin, because it's cheap, and in doing it, helps promote their sales, period. "

What you had wasn't true or good heroin then or your brain chemistry is already fried beyond normal .


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

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Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651196 - 05/29/02 11:22 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Tribes or groups can have religious laws, moral taboos and social customs which they use to govern their behavior, that does not mean that they have a government. If someone murders my child and my neighbors and I decide to punish the person for going against the biblical law of "Thou Shall Not Kill" by hanging the culprit, are we then a government? If there is no governing organization or individual (dictatorship) then there is no government.

I was citing specific examples and you are talking in generalities about societies of which you have little apparent knowledge. You are free to do research on the societies I have listed and then make critiques. Until you do, you are addressing the issue from a position of ignorance. A couple of good books to start with are "Society Against The State" (Essays in Political Anthropology) by Pierre Clastres or "The Machinery of Freedom" by David Friedman.

Peace.

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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Leftist think tank [Re: ]
    #651262 - 05/29/02 11:50 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

"Tribes or groups can have religious laws, moral taboos and social customs which they use to govern their behavior, that does not mean that they have a government. If someone murders my child and my neighbors and I decide to punish the person for going against the biblical law of "Thou Shall Not Kill" by hanging the culprit, are we then a government? If there is no governing organization or individual (dictatorship) then there is no government."

Here you go again. "Government : 5.b : the complex of political institutions, laws, and customs through which the function of governing is carried out" . Laws and customs apparently constitute part of what a government is according to our own definition of the word. It doesn't matter if they are religous laws. If religious laws dictate to a society then it's more of a religious government. All societys have rules and laws to govern themselves. They may not all have political partys persay but they have all had some form of governing their members.

" was citing specific examples and you are talking in generalities about societies of which you have little apparent knowledge. You are free to do research on the societies I have listed and then make critiques. Until you do, you are addressing the issue from a position of ignorance. "

It's so very easy to claim someones ignorance rather than argue legitimately. I am not ignorant of history and ancient cultures. You claim my ignorance because my views do not coincide with yours on the subject.
Eat dung and die, BUT FIRST vote for the greater evil http://www.cthulhu.org/ .




--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?

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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: nugsarenice]
    #651278 - 05/29/02 12:03 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

The powerful DNC strongly opposes MJ legalization, as does the RNC and the NRCC. It's not an issue of democrats versus republicans or left versus right. It's an issue of personal freedom which both the left and right strongly oppose.

The green party is so left it's rediculous. They are basically socialists and they don't even bother to deny it. Look at Nader's platform, it's socialist.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Offlinemrfreedom
journeyman
Male
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 80
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651311 - 05/29/02 12:18 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

I see that you have never met an addict; that would explain your cofusion to what I posted ie. "I was/am addicted to cocain".
The act of admitting an addiction is that one is addicted for the rest of one's life.
I was an addict when I used and I continue to be an addict even if I don't use.
If I ever use cocaine or any amphetamine, ever again, I will probably die; no, I will die. That is the essence of being an addict. Once an addict ALWAYS an addict.

Thanks for admitting to knowing how to live my life better than me. Thanks for making laws to allow you to intrude on my personal life. I appreciate it, especialy since my parents gave up on raising me when I was 30. It's nice to know that there are so many people willing to stand up and tell me how to live. Now, where's my allowance, I hear the crack truck coming down the street.

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Anonymous

Re: Leftist think tank [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #651385 - 05/29/02 12:49 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

So according to you, a tribal society with no complex of political institutions and laws, where there is no coercion and no organized body (or individual) to enforce codes, just voluntary compliance does indeed have a government?

Yes, I see how that fits the defintion "Government : 5.b : the complex of political institutions, laws, and customs through which the function of governing is carried out" (I noticed you picked definition 5. b. I guess the other more commonly used definitions were even further removed from your personal definition).

So, just so I understand where you're coming from, any and all forms of deciding how one should act is a government even if it is totally voluntary, involves no coercion and there is no organized body (or individual) to enforce codes... Wow, even a two people living alone on a desert island not claimed by any political entity, with only their own morals handed down from their upbringing in their society are living under a government.

Anarchy could never exist (even for a brief moment) under your definition because all societies are actually governments.

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