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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit
    #3106920 - 09/08/04 03:52 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I have seen the site that supposedly "proves" that there are objects
attached to the underbelly of the plane that crashed into one of the
World Trade Center towers on 9-11. It is surmised that these
tanks were some kind of explosive device that was put on in order
to make a big explosion that would be spectacular. The reasons
I don't believe this are:

1. The one video they chose to use as a reference is grainy and
shitty. Why didn't they do the same photo analysis on other
videos of the impact(there are many such videos from all kinds of
angles)?

2. I have seen many different video recordings of the
impact. The ones that I remember are as follows: one that was from a
helicopter that was hovering somewhat near the tower, one that was
from a building that was near the tower, and one that was from the
street as a person pointed their video camera up. Each one of these
videos gave a very clear and unobstructed view of the airplane. If
there were tanks attached to that plane, I(and millions of other
people) would have seen them.

3. If some diabolical agency was involved in staging 9-11 and they
put tanks on the plane to make a spectacular explosion, how could
such an advanced agency(who has managed to fool the entire world
as to what really happened) have put large, noticeable, and
suspicious things on the plane? Isn't that a very plain and stupid
mistake that people would notice?


This theory is garbage and nothing more. I have yet to see a 9-11
conspiracy theory site that withstood common sense.


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3106935 - 09/08/04 03:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Denial is not just a river in Africa.


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Offlineekomstop
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Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 1,880
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3106959 - 09/08/04 04:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:1. The one video they chose to use as a reference is grainy and
shitty. Why didn't they do the same photo analysis on other
videos of the impact(there are many such videos from all kinds of
angles)?




Maybe the other angles are even more grainy and shitty, or don't show the full bottom of the plane as well..?

Quote:

2. I have seen many different video recordings of the
impact. The ones that I remember are as follows: one that was from a
helicopter that was hovering somewhat near the tower, one that was
from a building that was near the tower, and one that was from the
street as a person pointed their video camera up. Each one of these
videos gave a very clear and unobstructed view of the airplane. If
there were tanks attached to that plane, I(and millions of other
people) would have seen them.




How would you then explain the "flash" that was observed to have occured in both the WTF plane crashes from multiple angles?

Quote:

3. Isn't that a very plain and stupid mistake that people would notice?




Apparently so


Is this what you read?

http://www.amics21.com/911/flight175/

"The digital analysis done by a Spanish university came to the conclusion that what we see here was no mere play of shadows as the plane banks into the South Tower, but physical objects."


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit [Re: Zahid]
    #3106969 - 09/08/04 04:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)


Denial is not just a river in Africa.

Yes....denial is quite extensive in many groups of people.
Like for example when the Saudi royal family claims that Zionists
are fomenting violence in the kingdom when it is obviously
Muslim extremists who are committing the violence.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: ekomstop]
    #3106990 - 09/08/04 04:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)


The one video they chose to use as a reference is grainy and
shitty. Why didn't they do the same photo analysis on other
videos of the impact(there are many such videos from all kinds of
angles)?


Maybe the other angles are even more grainy and shitty?

No they aren't. I explicitly remember seeing these videos multiple
times and they were very clear. Think of all of the videos of the
impact that were shot that day. How many people had their video
cameras trained on the twin towers? How many people were very close
to the scene and saw the plane come in? Don't you think somebody
on the ground or reviewing the multitudes of videos would have
noticed something? Instead we have one grainy and shitty photo
that has been examined by God knows who. Where are the multitudes
of witnesses and experts? The public would have heard about this.
A story like this would have spread like wildfire.


How would you then explain the "flash" that was observed to have
occured in both the WTF plane crashes?


Jet Fuel possibly?


3. Isn't that a very plain and stupid mistake that people would
notice?


Apparently so

And yet we have only one site(that is blatantly biased to the Left...
did you see all of the "stop the war" icons?) that has been able
to find this "irrefutable evidence".

Please answer this question:

Why in the hell would an agency put large, obtrusive, and easily
spotted tanks on the plane? Keep in mind thousands of people were
watching in New York. Millions of people were watching on their
TV's. Hundreds of people were recording from all kinds of angles.
Why in the fuck would this agency make such a blatant mistake and
put MULTIPLE HUGE tanks on the side of the plane?

Seeing a plane crash into a tower is spectacular enough for me.
I don't care if it blew up in a huge fireball or it just went in
and there was no fireball at all. Seeing that plane go into the
building would be enough to rattle any person. Why would an agency
take such a big risk in putting huge tanks on the side of the plane???
They would be spotted. People would start to ask questions.


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3107005 - 09/08/04 04:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Muslims want to over throw the Saudi royal family, but we cannot because of the presence of troops there from the country that finances the Zionists.


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Offlineekomstop
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Registered: 03/31/01
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Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3107016 - 09/08/04 04:41 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Maybe the other angles are even more grainy and shitty?

No they aren't. I explicitly remember seeing these videos multiple
times and they were very clear. Think of all of the videos of the
impact that were shot that day. How many people had their video
cameras trained on the twin towers? How many people were very close
to the scene and saw the plane come in? Don't you think somebody
on the ground or reviewing the multitudes of videos would have
noticed something? Instead we have one grainy and shitty photo
that has been examined by God knows who. Where are the multitudes
of witnesses and experts? The public would have heard about this.
A story like this would have spread like wildfire.




I agree you raise a good point, but I don't think it is a reason to completely rule out the possibility

Quote:


How would you then explain the "flash" that was observed to have
occured in both the WTF plane crashes?


Jet Fuel possibly?




I'd think they would have considered many posibilites such as this already.. if you want to see an actual video I know some links have been posted & I also have a few hosted on soulseek if your that interested

Quote:


3. Isn't that a very plain and stupid mistake that people would
notice?


Apparently so

And yet we have only one site(that is blatantly biased to the Left...
did you see all of the "stop the war" icons?) that has been able
to find this "irrefutable evidence".




I'm pretty sure there is more than one site on this matter..

Quote:

Why in the hell would an agency put large, obtrusive, and easily
spotted tanks on the plane? Keep in mind thousands of people were
watching in New York. Millions of people were watching on their
TV's. Hundreds of people were recording from all kinds of angles.
Why in the fuck would this agency make such a blatant mistake and
put MULTIPLE HUGE tanks on the side of the plane?




No idea..maybe they hoped no one would notice

Quote:

Seeing a plane crash into a tower is spectacular enough for me.
I don't care if it blew up in a huge fireball or it just went in
and there was no fireball at all. Seeing that plane go into the
building would be enough to rattle any person. Why would an agency
take such a big risk in putting huge tanks on the side of the plane???
They would be spotted. People would start to ask questions.




well if the planes didn't blow up in a dramatic fasion then how would they possibly get away with taking down the buildings?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit [Re: Zahid]
    #3107031 - 09/08/04 04:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)


Muslims want to over throw the Saudi royal family, but we cannot
because of the presence of troops there from the country that
finances the Zionists.

I don't think the U.S. should be friends with or support the Saudi
royal family. However, what would happen if the Saudi Royal family
fell? There is a good chance that the fundamentalists(even more
fundamentalist that the Saudi Royal family) would take over. What
would happen if the U.S. pulled out of Iraq? Would the
fundamentalists take over? Would Iran annex part of Iraq and gain
more oil wealth which they will use to speed up their nuclear bomb
dreams? Yes, the regimes in the Middle East are despotic and
disgusting, but what will happen if the terrorist fundamentalists
overthrow them and take control? Will they wage all out war against
the West? Will the Middle East become even more of shithole than it
already is?

Oh...another thing that people seem to be rountinely denying...
the real threat of Islamic extremism. What percentage of terrorist
attacks(intentionally killing innocent women and children) are
perpetrated by Muslim extremists? 80%? 90%?

Muslim extremists are real, they are numerous, they are active, and
they are murderous. To assert anything else is denial.

I don't trust your religion(or any religion). I am far less
politically correct than a lot of my fellow Americans. I am not
going to kiss ass to Islam just because it is "misunderstood"
and a "minority" religion in America. Too many of its adherents are
murderers, supportive of murderers, or bent on spreading their
ideology to the rest of the world by force or by subversion. You
can rail against American interventionist policy, and you will have
some good points. But, I will rail against this worldwide "jihadist"
movement.

Whereever Islam is the main force in society, there is no
democracy, there is no freedom, there is no economic stability, there
is no progress, and there is no justice. If you want to live in a
society like that...go ahead and move to one. As for me, I am happy
where I am.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3107092 - 09/08/04 05:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think the U.S. should be friends with or support the Saudi
royal family. However, what would happen if the Saudi Royal family
fell? There is a good chance that the fundamentalists(even more
fundamentalist that the Saudi Royal family) would take over. What
would happen if the U.S. pulled out of Iraq? Would the
fundamentalists take over?Would Iran annex part of Iraq and gain
more oil wealth which they will use to speed up their nuclear bomb
dreams? Yes, the regimes in the Middle East are despotic and
disgusting, but what will happen if the terrorist fundamentalists
overthrow them and take control? Will they wage all out war against
the West? Will the Middle East become even more of shithole than it
already is?


If the U.S. were to pull out, the Iraqi mujahideen would take control of the country and establish Shariah and justice through the land - the Iraqis would finally run their own affairs, not a puppet government of the United States. Iran would not invade, as the same insurgents who are currently fighting the American invaders would also be fighting the Iranian invaders if they tried to take the country.

Oh...another thing that people seem to be rountinely denying...
the real threat of Islamic extremism. What percentage of terrorist
attacks(intentionally killing innocent women and children) are
perpetrated by Muslim extremists? 80%? 90%?


These attacks are done out of desperation, which is why they always include suicide. When was the last you ever heard of a noble mujahid launching an RPG at a target of innocent people? The people who carry out attacks against civilians are desperate and are prepared to take their own lives in the process while the noble mujahid will not kill himself, but will become martyred if the enemy attacks and kills him.

Muslim extremists are real, they are numerous, they are active, and
they are murderous. To assert anything else is denial.


'Muslim extremist' is a term that doesn't catch ears of many Muslims because the enemy considers even the most noble of mujahideen fighters 'terrorists'. America and Russia considers Shameel Basayev a 'Muslim extremist' a 'terrorst' or as Lou Dobbs referred to him once, 'Radical Islamist terrorist'. As Muslims we consider Brother Shameel Basayev a noble freedom fighter for the Chechen people.

I don't trust your religion(or any religion). I am far less
politically correct than a lot of my fellow Americans. I am not
going to kiss ass to Islam just because it is "misunderstood"
and a "minority" religion in America. Too many of its adherents are
murderers, supportive of murderers, or bent on spreading their
ideology to the rest of the world by force or by subversion. You
can rail against American interventionist policy, and you will have
some good points. But, I will rail against this worldwide "jihadist"
movement.


And as such, we don't trust the kufr. Many Muslims are less politically correct than some other fellow Muslims and are not afraid to proclaim that there are enemy forces working against Islam and Muslims. We do not believe that American military interests in Iraq and Afghanistan are 'misundertood' - it is simply invasion and occupation, like Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and pious Muslims will continue to give their blood for the sake of Allah for their Muslim brothers and sisters until the American satans leave the Muslim lands. Too many people who rally behind the military efforts of these fasaadi governments are ignorant of what these governments are doing to Muslims. As long as this ignorance persists among the kufr, they are obstacles in the Muslim struggle for justice and freedom.

Whereever Islam is the main force in society, there is no
democracy, there is no freedom, there is no economic stability, there
is no progress, and there is no justice. If you want to live in a
society like that...go ahead and move to one. As for me, I am happy
where I am.


Muslims have the right to Muslim self rule. Until the kufr acknowledges that, Muslims will fight the kufr soldiers and puppet governments of the kufr who are preventing our freedom and killing our people. Allah said that {The Kufr will plan against the Muslims for all time, but Allah plans too; and Allah Most Merciful is the best of planners.} Frankly, we do not care if people distrust Islam - hate it, or view it as the enemy and the 'root' of terrorism. We are currently fighting for the lives and blood of our brothers and sisters in a world where there are few non-Muslims who are comfortable with Islam and the Truth of Islam. The Prophet said that there will arrive a day when everyone in the world would be against Islam. He said that even the other children of Allah, the Christians and the Jews would be against the Muslims. The Prophet proclaimed that the brotherhood of believers in Islam and their current state of righteousness would determine the 'countenance' of the world. Today Muslims are being punished, which is why were are being oppressed - which is why the once great Ummah has been divided into oppressive mini-states. And this is why Muslims make Da'wah and jihad for the sake of Allah, the ensure the security of further generations. Those who make jihad for the sake of Allah are the most righteous of men, and those who are killed in the way of Allah receive the highest reward from their Lord. Of course atheists and unbelievers are going to be against us, they have no faith in their hearts. They do not believe in Allah, and they do not believe in the reward of Allah. That is perfectly fine, people are free to believe what they want. But when the unbelievers attack the Ummah, impose fasaad on the Muslims, we will fight the enemy until victor or martyrdom is delt to the mujahideen.

Please understand the Muslims position on this, and take a look at the flash video that capture the noble, brave spirit of the Mujahideen:

http://www.geocities.com/as_saff/Jihaad.swf


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit [Re: Zahid]
    #3107575 - 09/08/04 11:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
I don't think the U.S. should be friends with or support the Saudi
royal family. However, what would happen if the Saudi Royal family
fell? There is a good chance that the fundamentalists(even more
fundamentalist that the Saudi Royal family) would take over. What
would happen if the U.S. pulled out of Iraq? Would the
fundamentalists take over?Would Iran annex part of Iraq and gain
more oil wealth which they will use to speed up their nuclear bomb
dreams? Yes, the regimes in the Middle East are despotic and
disgusting, but what will happen if the terrorist fundamentalists
overthrow them and take control? Will they wage all out war against
the West? Will the Middle East become even more of shithole than it
already is?


If the U.S. were to pull out, the Iraqi mujahideen would take control of the country and establish Shariah and justice through the land - the Iraqis would finally run their own affairs, not a puppet government of the United States. Iran would not invade, as the same insurgents who are currently fighting the American invaders would also be fighting the Iranian invaders if they tried to take the country.

"establish shariah and justice" These are two incompatible concepts. Shariah may well be the most fascist doctrine ever. Half the population as chattel. Oh, there's justice for you. But they prefer being property. Sure they do.
"Iraqis would finally run their own affairs" Saddam Hussein was an Iraqi. Up until a few months ago he ran Iraq.
"Iran would not invade" Why not? Oh that's right, the mullahs from Iran would already be running the country by proxy.


Oh...another thing that people seem to be rountinely denying...
the real threat of Islamic extremism. What percentage of terrorist
attacks(intentionally killing innocent women and children) are
perpetrated by Muslim extremists? 80%? 90%?


These attacks are done out of desperation, which is why they always include suicide. When was the last you ever heard of a noble mujahid launching an RPG at a target of innocent people? The people who carry out attacks against civilians are desperate and are prepared to take their own lives in the process while the noble mujahid will not kill himself, but will become martyred if the enemy attacks and kills him.

A "noble" mujahid would not launch an RPG at innocent people. Implication; an "ignoble" mujahid would. You are defining nobility on the basis of whether the mujahid would fire on innocents. Who decides who is innocent? Oh wait, it's the mujahid.

Muslim extremists are real, they are numerous, they are active, and
they are murderous. To assert anything else is denial.


'Muslim extremist' is a term that doesn't catch ears of many Muslims because the enemy considers even the most noble of mujahideen fighters 'terrorists'. America and Russia considers Shameel Basayev a 'Muslim extremist' a 'terrorst' or as Lou Dobbs referred to him once, 'Radical Islamist terrorist'. As Muslims we consider Brother Shameel Basayev a noble freedom fighter for the Chechen people.

I question whether all Chechen people feel the same way about this. Although a great many would prefer not to be under the yoke of the Russians, I suspect there is also a huge group, who are just as much Chechens, would rather not be under the yoke of the Islamo-fascists either. You Islamo-fascists may see basayev as a noble freedom fighter (internal inconsistency alert....he has directed the murder of innocents thus he is IGNOBLE) but I'm not sure every Chechnyan would be willing to trade one yoke for another. What protection would a Christian have in your wonderful paradise, eh?

I don't trust your religion(or any religion). I am far less
politically correct than a lot of my fellow Americans. I am not
going to kiss ass to Islam just because it is "misunderstood"
and a "minority" religion in America. Too many of its adherents are
murderers, supportive of murderers, or bent on spreading their
ideology to the rest of the world by force or by subversion. You
can rail against American interventionist policy, and you will have
some good points. But, I will rail against this worldwide "jihadist"
movement.


And as such, we don't trust the kufr. Many Muslims are less politically correct than some other fellow Muslims and are not afraid to proclaim that there are enemy forces working against Islam and Muslims. We do not believe that American military interests in Iraq and Afghanistan are 'misundertood' - it is simply invasion and occupation, like Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and pious Muslims will continue to give their blood for the sake of Allah for their Muslim brothers and sisters until the American satans leave the Muslim lands. Too many people who rally behind the military efforts of these fasaadi governments are ignorant of what these governments are doing to Muslims. As long as this ignorance persists among the kufr, they are obstacles in the Muslim struggle for justice and freedom.

It is utterly ignorant and disingenuous to equate the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan with our actions there and in Iraq. In Iraq in 1990 we were begged to rescue at least two Muslim nations, BY THOSE NATIONS, from a secular, albeit nominally Islamic, invader. The wahabbi nuts would have been summarily dispatched by Hussein the minute he took over. HE DOESN'T SHARE WELL. Afghanistan declared war when they refused to turn over the criminals. Do you think the Taliban rule was the "will of the Afghan people"? I don't. I think they were just the latest in a long series of temporary despots who have ruled, occasionally, there. And stop blaming the West for your despots. If you had any fucking balls at all you would kick them out in spite of our, if I must say, rather tepid support. Disorganized bunch of whining camel humpers who couldn't get enough agreement on how to screw in a lightbulb. Your plight is your own fault as a people.

Whereever Islam is the main force in society, there is no
democracy, there is no freedom, there is no economic stability, there
is no progress, and there is no justice. If you want to live in a
society like that...go ahead and move to one. As for me, I am happy
where I am.


Muslims have the right to Muslim self rule. Until the kufr acknowledges that, Muslims will fight the kufr soldiers and puppet governments of the kufr who are preventing our freedom and killing our people. Allah said that {The Kufr will plan against the Muslims for all time, but Allah plans too; and Allah Most Merciful is the best of planners.} Frankly, we do not care if people distrust Islam - hate it, or view it as the enemy and the 'root' of terrorism. We are currently fighting for the lives and blood of our brothers and sisters in a world where there are few non-Muslims who are comfortable with Islam and the Truth of Islam. The Prophet said that there will arrive a day when everyone in the world would be against Islam. He said that even the other children of Allah, the Christians and the Jews would be against the Muslims. The Prophet proclaimed that the brotherhood of believers in Islam and their current state of righteousness would determine the 'countenance' of the world. Today Muslims are being punished, which is why were are being oppressed - which is why the once great Ummah has been divided into oppressive mini-states. And this is why Muslims make Da'wah and jihad for the sake of Allah, the ensure the security of further generations. Those who make jihad for the sake of Allah are the most righteous of men, and those who are killed in the way of Allah receive the highest reward from their Lord. Of course atheists and unbelievers are going to be against us, they have no faith in their hearts. They do not believe in Allah, and they do not believe in the reward of Allah. That is perfectly fine, people are free to believe what they want. But when the unbelievers attack the Ummah, impose fasaad on the Muslims, we will fight the enemy until victor or martyrdom is delt to the mujahideen.

Please understand the Muslims position on this, and take a look at the flash video that capture the noble, brave spirit of the Mujahideen:

"Muslims have the right to self rule." Let's see there are, what, a few dozen countries ruled by your despicable junta with populations of, I don't know, somewhat less than a billion people (there may be more than a billion Muslims but they don't all live in Muslim countries). It looks to me like you have ample opportunity to self rule. Or do you think that because YOU and a few of your ilk live in Canada, that nation should adopt shariah fascism as it's law. You have enough of the worlds nations and an incredible gift of a disproportionate amount of it's oil resources. MOVE PILGRIM. You do not have the right to impose your bullshit idea of justice on ANYBODY WHO DOESN'"T WANT IT.

And now this is the best of all. "We are currently fighting...." Yes, grasshopper you have shown your hairy red ass with this one and it has a stench of collaborator, at least, your many protestations to the lefties here to the contrary. Go to Iran and stay there, you will be very happy in your devotion, but keep your fascist shit out of my hemisphere.


http://www.geocities.com/as_saff/Jihaad.swf




--------------------


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3108532 - 09/08/04 04:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

while the In Plane Site theory is pretty weak and shitty,
your debunking of it is somehow more porous.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: afoaf]
    #3108778 - 09/08/04 05:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)


while the In Plane Site theory is pretty weak and shitty,
your debunking of it is somehow more porous.

It's porous that none of the other videos showed the "tanks", none of
the eyewitnesses saw the tanks, and none of the millions watching on
TV saw the tanks? Is it porous that I question how LARGE tanks
(according to that website they took up a large part of the side of
the plane) could be missed by everyone, except some Lefty-ish
conspiracy theory web site?


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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is shit [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3108844 - 09/08/04 05:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

"establish shariah and justice" These are two incompatible concepts. Shariah may well be the most fascist doctrine ever. Half the population as chattel. Oh, there's justice for you. But they prefer being property. Sure they do.




See, this is the problem Muslims have with the West - people tell us that our way of life, that our culture of Islam is wrong - yet these people who are are critical or down right hateful of Islam don't know a single thing about Shariah.

Quote:

"Iraqis would finally run their own affairs" Saddam Hussein was an Iraqi. Up until a few months ago he ran Iraq.
"Iran would not invade" Why not? Oh that's right, the mullahs from Iran would already be running the country by proxy.




Do you know what Prime Minister Allawi is? He's an American puppet. He's a modern day President Nur M. Taraki; the puppet leader that was established in Afghanistan when the Soviet Union invaded in 1979. If pure Shariah was was established in Iraq, the Khilafah would not have anything to do with the Iranians and their Ayatollah Shi'ite theocracy which is contrary to Islamic Law.

Quote:

A "noble" mujahid would not launch an RPG at innocent people. Implication; an "ignoble" mujahid would. You are defining nobility on the basis of whether the mujahid would fire on innocents. Who decides who is innocent? Oh wait, it's the mujahid.




The Qur'an and hadith determines who is innocent - and it also says that not every Muslim who claims to be fighting for Allah will truly be fighting for Allah; they would be fighting for Shaitan. There is the noble mujahid, and then there is the desperate terrorist who is unable to justify his acts to himself, so he justifies it to his religion by forsaking it fanatically. Look at the videos I posted in 'real mujahideen' - these are noble men, may Allah reward them. A terrorist does not do that, a terrorist doesn't fight the enemy army one Hind fighter copter or tank at a time. A terrorist is impatient and suicidal, a terrorist straps a bomb to himself, takes innocent people hostage and makes wide angle demands like a complete withdrawal of Russian troops or some other demand that will obviously not be met by the enemy. The real mujahid prays between battles. He does not 'pray one last time' and storms into a public building with bombs strapped to him. These are not real mujahids. These are terrorists.

Quote:

I question whether all Chechen people feel the same way about this. Although a great many would prefer not to be under the yoke of the Russians, I suspect there is also a huge group, who are just as much Chechens, would rather not be under the yoke of the Islamo-fascists either. You Islamo-fascists may see basayev as a noble freedom fighter (internal inconsistency alert....he has directed the murder of innocents thus he is IGNOBLE) but I'm not sure every Chechnyan would be willing to trade one yoke for another. What protection would a Christian have in your wonderful paradise, eh?




Actually, even if you were to watch Western documentaries on the Chechen conflict, like PBS's 'Greetings from Grozny' you'll even find there that nearly all Chechens hate the Russian occupation, and they want the Russians out and Islamic independence for themselves. Nearly all Chechens are Muslims who prefer Islamic Law (contrary to popular western belief, Muslims don't hate their religion) over the bloody occupation of the Russians. Once again you are displaying basic ignorance of Shariah. Muslims have been using Shariah since the time of the Prophet up until 1924. For centuries it has worked for us, and now westerners are telling us, "Sorry, you can't do that anymore!" when they don't even know the basic difference between jihad and ijtihad.  :rolleyes:

Quote:

It is utterly ignorant and disingenuous to equate the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan with our actions there and in Iraq. In Iraq in 1990 we were begged to rescue at least two Muslim nations, BY THOSE NATIONS, from a secular, albeit nominally Islamic, invader. The wahabbi nuts would have been summarily dispatched by Hussein the minute he took over. HE DOESN'T SHARE WELL. Afghanistan declared war when they refused to turn over the criminals. Do you think the Taliban rule was the "will of the Afghan people"? I don't. I think they were just the latest in a long series of temporary despots who have ruled, occasionally, there. And stop blaming the West for your despots. If you had any fucking balls at all you would kick them out in spite of our, if I must say, rather tepid support. Disorganized bunch of whining camel humpers who couldn't get enough agreement on how to screw in a lightbulb. Your plight is your own fault as a people.




First, Saddam would hardly be considered a Muslim. He's one of those 'finds God in prison' types - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. He drinks, has fornicated and raped countless women (which is punished by death) and to stop the religious moralists from causing unrest in his country, Saddam would place giant pictures of himself on a prayer rug in the Dua prayer position all over Baghdad. Under Shariah, Saddam would be executed. Under Shariah, Muslims would give Saddam a final moment to make his peace with Allah before a swing blade would behead the criminal. You also do not know the history of the Talibaan movement, and its brief post-9/11 history. In 1996 the country was so torn by tribal war, much of the country basically let the Taliban take over the country. The only armed opposition to the Taliban was the Northern Alliance - foreign fighters from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, etc. - not even Afghans, but fighters with known ties to Russia who Muslims already see as an enemy for their crimes against Muslims in Chechnya. When the Taliban marched into Kabul, Mullah Mohammed Omar became something as a folk hero among the Afghans because he captured a serial child rapist who was working with the Northern Alliance. Mullah Omar tried him in an Islamic court, four witnesses testified, and a Shariah advisor who was judge sentenced him to hanging. Mullah Omar himself then publically hung the animal from a tank. Most westerners can't even name a single Saddam-esque 'atrocity' of Mullah Omar other than 'Uh, he is the commander of the Taliban?' if they're even smart enough differentiate between Taliban fighters and Al Qaeda fighters. Above all that, the war in Afghanistan is another example of unprovoked aggression from the United States. Not only was the Taliban one of the first governments to offer sympathy for the 9/11 attacks, their position afterwards is not as black and white as people people. The Taliban agreed they would hand over Bin Laden only if evidence was provided that his network was behind the attack - if evidence was provided, Bin Laden would be tried in an Islamic Court so that the world's image of Islam would be less tarnished by the 9/11 attack. Instead, the U.S. went in anyway.

Quote:

"Muslims have the right to self rule." Let's see there are, what, a few dozen countries ruled by your despicable junta with populations of, I don't know, somewhat less than a billion people (there may be more than a billion Muslims but they don't all live in Muslim countries). It looks to me like you have ample opportunity to self rule. Or do you think that because YOU and a few of your ilk live in Canada, that nation should adopt shariah fascism as it's law. You have enough of the worlds nations and an incredible gift of a disproportionate amount of it's oil resources. MOVE PILGRIM. You do not have the right to impose your bullshit idea of justice on ANYBODY WHO DOESN'"T WANT IT.




You have the nerve to tell us 'not to push our bullshit ideas' on people who don't want it when you are replying to my comment, 'We have the right to self rule'!? Astaghfirullah! (May Allah forgive you!) Incase you forgot, Shariah has not existed since 1924 - yet everyone thinks it's 'intolerant and bad' or something like that from getting a brief, albeit ignorant glimpse at the 'Muslim world' which is ruled by dictators from Morrocco to Pakistan. Believe me, that what Muslims want - is to overthrow these apostate dogs and establish Shariah and Justice through the Muslim lands. Frankly, non Muslims have no right to impose their ideologies on us. Until the Islamic urge for Islamic rule is acknowledged, Muslims will be waging a constant struggle against those who are preventing Islamic freedom for Muslims.

Quote:

And now this is the best of all. "We are currently fighting...." Yes, grasshopper you have shown your hairy red ass with this one and it has a stench of collaborator, at least, your many protestations to the lefties here to the contrary. Go to Iran and stay there, you will be very happy in your devotion, but keep your fascist shit out of my hemisphere.




Not only are you obviously bigoted and hateful towards Muslims - you also lack the most basic knowledge about the religion, such as the difference between Shi'ite Muslims, Sunni Muslims, and even Sufi Muslims. You also have the nerve to call me a fascist, and Islam a fascist religion. Above that you also told me to 'keep your fascist shit out of my hemisphere' - where did that come from? When did the Islamic struggle against occupation turn into 'world domination'? Perhaps you are so paranoid of Islam and Muslims you believe anyone that kisses the ground 5 times a day wants to overthrow Western society and establish Shariah on a nation of 300 million non-Muslims.  :rolleyes: Get some help brother, this hate/paranoia is not normal.


--------------------


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Offlineekomstop
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Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 1,880
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3109061 - 09/08/04 06:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:

while the In Plane Site theory is pretty weak and shitty,
your debunking of it is somehow more porous.

It's porous that none of the other videos showed the "tanks", none of
the eyewitnesses saw the tanks, and none of the millions watching on
TV saw the tanks? Is it porous that I question how LARGE tanks
(according to that website they took up a large part of the side of
the plane) could be missed by everyone, except some Lefty-ish
conspiracy theory web site?




I don't think 911 in plane site was trying to propose a definite concrete 'theory' of some kind, as far as I know it's main purpose was to bring these observations and resulting new questions to the attention of the public and then basically let the chips fall where they may.

It's not like someone could have edited this thing into the videos and photographs or something for the sake of driving conspiracy nuts, the images and videos that the anomalies were originally observed from were taken directly from recorded mainstream television reports, CNN DVD's and videos and magazines that you can purchase and take a look at for yourself.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: Zahid]
    #3109395 - 09/08/04 07:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What protection would a Christian have in your wonderful paradise, eh?



You skipped that question Zahid. I'm very curious what the answer is.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: z@z.com]
    #3109428 - 09/08/04 07:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It wouldn't be any different than that of a Muslim.


--------------------


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: ekomstop]
    #3109429 - 09/08/04 07:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)


I don't think 911 in plane site was trying to propose a definite
concrete 'theory' of some kind, as far as I know it's main purpose
was to bring these observations and resulting new questions to the
attention of the public and then basically let the chips fall where
they may.


I am willing to believe anything. Anything is possible. Is it
theoretically possible that the CIA or some nefarious U.S. backed
organization pulled off 9-11...of course it is. But, I need ample
and irrefutable evidence from unbiased sources.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: Zahid]
    #3109453 - 09/08/04 07:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So if people who were not Muslims wanted to pray in public, hold religious meetings openly or discuss religion openly with others (including Muslims) there would be no problem and they would still have the protection of the law?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: z@z.com]
    #3109469 - 09/08/04 07:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There would be no problem.


--------------------


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Why the "tanks on the planes" 9--1 conspiracy theory is [Re: Zahid]
    #3109477 - 09/08/04 07:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Are there any places that actually have this form of government?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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