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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22242476 - 09/15/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Obviously there's a lot here that for someone who isn't left thinking (leaning, imagining, whining whatever floats your boat) is fundamentally corrupt. It's not intended for you. I'm not seeking to debate the fundamental ideas of leftism but more so discuss this article and shame culture within the left.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22242510 - 09/15/15 05:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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What a load of hooie! cisgender means normal apparently so why not say normal instead of making up some new horse manure word?
It seems to be some sort of strategy to make normal white guys feel bad about the fact they succeeded despite getting no govt handouts like all the "special" people get. Hard work and sacrifice is sneered at while airing complaints is encouraged.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22242657 - 09/15/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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airclay said: This thread is obv not for you but thaaanks for kicking off the childish remarks. I guess someone had to do it first.
Actually, that was the first childish remark.
Explain how the first response wasn't childish and then please follow up w my remark was?
Where I'm standing first remark did not read anything but instead merely went out of the way to insult my vocabulary and and topic of discussion in general without any constructive input.
Because his comment was directed at the linked site and their stupidity, where-as yours was directed at him.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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capitalism isn't oppressive, its the most honest, fair, free way to have an economy, fuck, liberals is dumb...
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22242708 - 09/15/15 06:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: Obviously there's a lot here that for someone who isn't left thinking (leaning, imagining, whining whatever floats your boat) is fundamentally corrupt. It's not intended for you. I'm not seeking to debate the fundamental ideas of leftism but more so discuss this article and shame culture within the left.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: What a load of hooie! cisgender means normal apparently so why not say normal instead of making up some new horse manure word?
It seems to be some sort of strategy to make normal white guys feel bad about the fact they succeeded despite getting no govt handouts like all the "special" people get. Hard work and sacrifice is sneered at while airing complaints is encouraged.
The topic is actually on the idea of why that seems to be true within anarchist circles tho and to stop it as to include white cis-males and stop the ipso facto blaming of them as individuals.
Also again you show your ignorance this time on the topic of gender studies. however you did inspire me to read into it the history and critique of the term and I found this to be fair.
Quote:
Women's and Gender Studies scholar Mimi Marinucci writes that some consider the "cisgender–transgender" binary to be just as dangerous or self-defeating as the masculine–feminine gender binary, because it lumps people who identify as lesbian, gay, or bisexual (LGB) arbitrarily and over-simplistically with heteronormative class of people as opposed to with transgender people. Characterizing LGB individuals together with heterosexual, non-trans people may problematically suggest that LGB individuals, unlike transgender individuals, "experience no mismatch between their own gender identity and gender expression and cultural expectations regarding gender identity and expression"
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: capitalism isn't oppressive, its the most honest, fair, free way to have an economy
Capitalism is not about creating a strong middle class. Empirical evidence shows the purer the capitalism, the less the working class are worth.
Country/Territory Net median wealth per adult 1. Australia $219,505.00 2. Luxembourg $182,768.00 3. Belgium $148,141.00 4. France $141,850.00 5. Italy $138,653.00 6. United Kingdom $111,524.00 7. Japan $110,294.00 8. Iceland $104,733.00 9. Switzerland $95,916.00 10. Finland $95,095.00 11. Norway $92,859.00 12. Canada $90,252.00 13. Netherlands $83,631.00 14. New Zealand $76,607.00 15. Ireland $75,573.00 16. Spain $63,306.00 17. Denmark $57,675.00 18. Austria $57,450.00 19. Greece $53,937.00 20. Sweden $52,677.00 21. Germany $49,370.00 22. Slovenia $44,932.00 23. United States $44,911.00 24. Portugal $38,846.00 25. Israel $38,164.00
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: fuck, liberals is dumb...
The irony...
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/15/15 10:17 PM)
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Hey, can someone print out a copy of the first rant so i have something to wipe my ass with?
They key defect in this horseshit that is supposed to pass as meaningful intellectualism is that someone else's feelings or state of being are not my responsibility.
That is, I am responsible for what I feel and do, no one 'makes' me have feelings. What other people say or do does't make me bad or good nor does it instill opportunity on me.
what i got i earned myself. If someone else wants a degree in engineering and a six figure salary, they can go work in a factory for five years at night and live 5 miserable years with no sleep while they do their college work in the daytime, and eat peanut butter sandwiches seven days a week and have no fucking life. Like I did. If they want tuition paid for, they can go clean tables at the university cafeteria like a lot of people that had no money did--so they could get an education and improve their lives.
No one is holding anyone back or denying anyone anything in the US. WE HAVE EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY--NOT EQUALITY OF OUTCOME. If someone can't cut the mustard, that is not my fault or responsibility.
the name of this thread should be 'Leftist Stinkers'
Edited by starfire_xes (09/16/15 12:52 AM)
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: capitalism isn't oppressive, its the most honest, fair, free way to have an economy
Capitalism is not about creating a strong middle class. Empirical evidence shows the purer the capitalism, the less the working class are worth.
Country/Territory Net median wealth per adult 1. Australia $219,505.00 2. Luxembourg $182,768.00 3. Belgium $148,141.00 4. France $141,850.00 5. Italy $138,653.00 6. United Kingdom $111,524.00 7. Japan $110,294.00 8. Iceland $104,733.00 9. Switzerland $95,916.00 10. Finland $95,095.00 11. Norway $92,859.00 12. Canada $90,252.00 13. Netherlands $83,631.00 14. New Zealand $76,607.00 15. Ireland $75,573.00 16. Spain $63,306.00 17. Denmark $57,675.00 18. Austria $57,450.00 19. Greece $53,937.00 20. Sweden $52,677.00 21. Germany $49,370.00 22. Slovenia $44,932.00 23. United States $44,911.00 24. Portugal $38,846.00 25. Israel $38,164.00
Fal, where ya been man?? And what do you presume that table illustrates or proves?
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Not sure what it proves either considering that none of the countries on that list has a population remotely close to that of the United States.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Quote:
Astral Pain said: Not sure what it proves either considering that none of the countries on that list has a population remotely close to that of the United States.
I just look at japan and wonder if anyone realizes how much lower their standard of living is.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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A lot yall really should read up on the myth that is meritocracy and realize that equality is not based on how hard you had to work to get what you want but on working to provide an equal access human experience simply because every human deserves it.
But most off maybe take and second and quit playing Internet cool guy class clown and allow those that don't find this fundamentally corrupt a chance to discuss it.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22244569 - 09/16/15 06:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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in the US everyone has equal access, OK Karl?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 44 seconds
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: in the US everyone has equal access, OK Karl?
  
Didn't you just create a thread about how the system is rigged?
Now it's not because it's convenient for your "every leftist idea is communism" platform. What a joke.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22244887 - 09/16/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: Alright let me try a different approach.
This is one of the main points that addresses privilege theory and the shaming of white cis-males.
Quote:
3. By over-emphasizing individual privilege, and how to “check” it, anti-oppression politics can risk personalizing systemic oppressions and undermining attempts to collectively organize to overthrow systemically oppressive systems. The constant agonizing in some anti-oppressive spaces over how individuals can check their privilege seems to involve the implicit assumption that privilege is a matter of choice, and can be relinquished by appropriate personal action. This assumption forces us to ask: even if a privileged, university-educated, cisgender white male person, for example, can be educated or checked into behaving properly within a particular activist space, what has this dubious accomplishment done to undermine patriarchy, racism, or other oppressive systems as systems? Don‘t these oppressive systems continue to operate out in the world, ready to take over as soon as we leave a designated safe space? Aren‘t they, in some ways, baked into all of our psyches by our having grown up in a culture of patriarchy, racism, homophobia, and so forth? The authors of the Who is Oakland piece frame the problem this way: "According to the dominant discourse of white privilege white supremacy is primarily a psychological attitude which individuals can simply choose to renounce instead of an entrenched material infrastructure which reproduces race at key sites across society from racially segmented labor markets to the militarization of the border. Whiteness simply becomes one more culture, and white supremacy a psychological attitude, instead of a structural position of dominance reinforced through institutions, civilian and police violence, access to resources, and the economy. At the same time a critique of white privilege has become a kind of blanket, reflexive condemnation of any variety of confrontational, disruptive protest while bringing the focus back to reforming the behavior and beliefs of individuals. We contend that privilege politics is ultimately rooted in an idealist theory of power which maintains that the psychological attitudes of individuals are the root cause of oppression and exploitation, and that vague programs of consciousness raising will somehow transform oppressive structures." Their point about condemning confrontational direct action as being only available to the privileged (particularly able-bodied macho white males) who possess the legal,economic, and social privileges to mitigate the personal impact of these actions—an argument many in the anarchist movement have no doubt heard—is particularly distressing. It suggests that marginalized communities should only engage in non-confrontational, unprovocative actions that are inclusive of, for example, the community‘s disabled and undocumented members in essence, what Common Cause Ottawa calls an implicit pacifism. In anarchist thought, which respects the right of individuals and groups to choose for themselves how to engage in struggle (diversity of tactics), this pacifism implicit in privilege politics seems hopelessly conservative. As Delio Vasquez writes in The Poor Person‘s Defense of Riots: Practical Looting, Rational Riots, and the Shortcomings of Black Liberalism (2014; originally in CounterPunch and reprinted in the zine ―Revolutionary Solidarity— A Critical Reader for Accomplices): ―We often suffer from a collective amnesia about the crucial role of law -breaking in the history of social change. Martin Luther King Jr., the paragon for pacifist protest, was arrested an impressive thirty times between 1955 and 1965. And still, the effectiveness of his militant pacifism can only be properly understood against the background of many other, much more tumultuous political conflicts—riots included—that occurred throughout the civil rights movement. Political change does not, and never has, come about through peaceful protest alone. All tactics of course play a role—and riots, the threat of violence, and violence itself are frequently the context and background that situate as well as frame the force and effectiveness of more mainstream, moderate, and agreed-on tactics. In a conversation with Coretta Scott King, Malcolm X, infamous for his anti-pacifist rhetoric and direct attacks on Martin Luther King‘s strategies, nonetheless stressed to King‘s wife his awareness of the value of a diversity of tactics: I want Dr. King to know that I didn‘t come to Selma to make his job difficult. I really did come thinking I could make it easier. If the white people realize what the alternative is, perhaps they will be more willing to hear Dr. King (http://anarchistnews.org/ content/revolutionary-solidaritycritical-reader-accomplices).
No doubt, dismantling the political, economic, and social basis of capitalism, statism, patriarchy, and the thousand other oppressions that define the modern world will require confrontational, or even (as a last resort) violent action, whether or not we all like it. The violent police responses to the anti-budget cuts, Occupy, & Black Lives Matter movements are a stark reminder of this sad reality. Checking privilege, calling out micro-aggressions, and demanding guilt, compliance, and submissiveness from relatively privileged white/male/middle class activists is simply not going to cut it.
"oppressions that define the modern world (white males) will require confrontational, or even VIOLENT ACTION" 
"Checking privilege,... demanding guilt, compliance, and submissiveness from relatively privileged WHITE/MALE...is simply not going to cut it" 
Nice racist hate speech Mr.Leftist Thinker.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: qman]
#22245012 - 09/16/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Qman I'm really worried about hour ability to read and comprehend things. For the third time now you've missed the point. The point is to stop the ipso facto blaming of the white cis-males. Your specific edited paraphrase are parts of the whole that explain we shouldn't be against any individual persons regardless off their class/race/whatever.
This thread is literally about anarchists trying to fight exactly what you're complaining about within their own communities.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
Edited by airclay (09/16/15 09:31 AM)
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22245128 - 09/16/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: Qman I'm really worried about hour ability to read and comprehend things. For the third time now you've missed the point. The point is to stop the ipso facto blaming of the white cis-males. Your specific edited paraphrase are parts of the whole that explain we shouldn't be against any individual persons regardless off their class/race/whatever.
This thread is literally about anarchists trying to fight exactly what you're complaining about within their own communities.
They're still the same people/movement that want to use a different method to vilify white males. Just because they found the first method ineffective doesn't diminish the fact that their mindset is from the same place.
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: qman]
#22245310 - 09/16/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You're still missing it. It's not a new way to vilify white males (srry your lil white feelings are so easily hurt) it's working towards understanding that individuals themselves are not to blame and not to automatically be discredited but recognizing the socio-institution of whiteness. Which really is class antagonism put in a more cultural light.
Again this is all theory that is fundamentally corrupt to right wingers. My intent is to discuss this w others that relate as to further ideas about privilege and intersectionality that doesn't put ppl of color on a pedestal and leave the rest behind.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22245324 - 09/16/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also qman, I'm a white cis-gender male.
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Leftist thinkers [Re: airclay]
#22245340 - 09/16/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: Qman I'm really worried about hour ability to read and comprehend things. For the third time now you've missed the point. The point is to stop the ipso facto blaming of the white cis-males. Your specific edited paraphrase are parts of the whole that explain we shouldn't be against any individual persons regardless off their class/race/whatever.
This thread is literally about anarchists trying to fight exactly what you're complaining about within their own communities.
Amazing, isn't it?
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