deCypher said:

I agree with most everything you stated except for wishing there was an objective meaning/purpose to our existence... I'm just fine with being able to create my own subjective meaning for my life.

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Icelander said:

Poid said:

I wish suffering weren't the norm. I wish there was some sort of objective meaning/purpose to each of our existence. I wish people weren't so cruel to each other whenever they get the chance and/or whenever it benefits them. I wish there were a such thing as "true love", and that everybody experienced it. I wish we didn't have to die.


What do you wish?

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I wish I was a river otter.

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Kickle said:

Re: Things you wish weren't true about the human condition...

I wish humans didn't wish things weren't true about the human condition.

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Why?

deff said:

it seems to me that suffering teaches two things - how to lessen/avoid/transcend further suffering and to have compassion for others who are suffering

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Sometimes people don't learn any lessons from their suffering, and actually go out of the way to attempt to make others suffer.

deff said:

though both lessons wouldn't be needed without suffering in the first place

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Well, if you didn't suffer, how would you know how to help others to not suffer?

Poid said:

Well, if you didn't suffer, how would you know how to help others to not suffer?

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deCypher said:

LOL, I took Accutane back in the day too... I've heard some people claim it can cause premature closing of the growth plates and lo and behold right around the time that I took it I reached my maximum height.  Coincidence?  I think not! 

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Quote:

Since the 1980s, scientific research has suggested a relationship between isotretinoin administration and the onset of psychological symptoms including depression, suicidal ideation, and psychosis. However, there have also been studies arguing that there is no evidence of such a link. In a study in 2006, it was demonstrated for the first time that isotretinoin administration enhances depression-related behaviors in mice. The mechanism by which this occurs was not elucidated, although altered neuronal gene regulation and changes in hippocampal neurogenesis were thought to be involved.

Several recent studies have shown a link between isotretinoin and clinical depression. Psychiatrist Dr. Doug Bremner found decreased orbifrontal cortex function on brain imaging in patients treated with Accutane (isotretinoin). Bremner's study, which utilized positron emission tomography (PET), found that patients treated with isotretinion experienced an average 21% decrease in orbifrontal-lobe brain activity. However, there were no changes in the depressive state of the patients that could be measured with the Hamilton depression scale. Bremner's findings have prompted members of the scientific community to call for more studies regarding isotretinion's links to depression and suicidal behavior.

Various case reports of depression, suicidal ideation, suicide attempt, and suicide in patients treated with isotretinoin have been reported to the U.S. FDA Adverse Events Reporting System, with 431 cases reported between 1982 and May 2001 – of these, 37 patients had committed suicide. This suicide rate is in line with national rates and does not exceed the national average.

Studies have shown that patients with acne, the population group eligible to receive isotretinoin therapy, have an increased risk of clinical depression compared with the general population. Chee Hong describes Isotretinoin-related depression as "an idiosyncratic side-effect", claiming, often anxiety can bring on acne and depression, creating more anxiety. Correspondingly, treatment of severe acne with isotretinoin has been shown to reduce anxiety and depression, for tests have shown acne to be a main depressant in most tested patients' lives.

Spontaneous suicides, or suicides where the victim exhibited no signs of clinical depression, of Accutane users have been reported. These reports signal that Accutane may be able to cause users to make extremely irrational decisions, and could explain why the FDA and pharmaceutical companies have failed to establish a causal relationship between Accutane and depression as Accutane could be causing the brain to experience something different than clinical depression. The fact that some suicides are "spontaneous" means that Chee Hong's aforementioned "idiosyncratic" theory is false in many cases of Accutane- related suicide.

Former U.S. Representative Bart Stupak believes unadvertised psychological side-effects from the drug drove his teenage son to commit suicide in 2000.

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Poid said:

Kickle said:

Re: Things you wish weren't true about the human condition...

I wish humans didn't wish things weren't true about the human condition.

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Why?

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Quote:

If we didn't wish then we'd actually be dealing with our problems.

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c0sm0nautt said:

Could we know happiness without the context and comparison of suffering?

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De_Cypher
I feel like some of us have already experienced enough suffering to provide a context for future happiness... no need to have any more. 

Cosmonaautt
I've heard from more than one source that the human experience (physical reality) is one of the hardest, scariest teachings this Universe has to offer. I think we are learning something very profound from being here.

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Alphalf

We?


Thats a dream you know.

What about the 20 000 kids that died of starvation today? What did they learn?

No seriously.

What?

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Cosmonaut

I don't have the answer to that. How could I know? Of course it is horrible, but do you really think a human being could fathom the workings of the Universe? AS individuals we are looking at these things from a limited perspective. An experience as a starving child could give an amazing perspective if we do take the experiences of this life with us. Comparatively what comes to mind is the spoiled rich kid who cannot appreciate anything.

I know my own suffering has been my greatest teacher. I couldn't imagine the shallow asshole I would be if I had coasted through life with no problems. I think this is the case for everyone. Suffering is horrible. But I think it is serving a purpose. I believe our physical bodies to be transitory vehicles for our consciousness. I believe on a higher level we choose to have this experience. Earth the school.

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Alpha
You don't have an answer to that because you assume  that suffering exists on behalf of some larger purpose in the universe with which we all share.

Instead look at all that you know and attempt to find patterns in those things with which you can attempt to understand your own life with.


For example, my theory is that suffering does not lead to some greater purpose in life and that it has no significance other than what the human chooses to do with the suffering. My theory, if applied to the phenomena we see in the world equally, can hold 100% true for everyone living here. However, when it comes to your theory, it seems as if it only holds true for people in the west who can sit around and ponder what the meaning of life is, because they aren't working in a factory to feed their families, or in the children case, starving to death without a mother, alone in a world where no one shows you any care.

My theory fits nicely with your theory and I don't need to search for answers as to why it doesn't. Yours makes you search because the phenomena we experience with our own two eyes contradicts it.

Theory creation is all about identifying patterns within all the events you wish to understand together.

If you remember this, you won't go off on some tangent and actually life becomes a l

FishOilTheKid said:

Quote:

If we didn't wish then we'd actually be dealing with our problems.

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If we have problems and we are dealing with them a desire for change is a precursor to taking action, no??

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Kickle said:

FishOilTheKid said:

Quote:

If we didn't wish then we'd actually be dealing with our problems.

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If we have problems and we are dealing with them a desire for change is a precursor to taking action, no??

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That is our current system. If we didn't wish then we would already know what problems we can change and which we cannot. No wishing required. It is just change or accept. No option of inactive desiring something else. It is either happening or it isnt possible.

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Quote:

If we didn't wish then we would already know what problems we can change and which we cannot.

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FishOilTheKid said:

Quote:

If we didn't wish then we would already know what problems we can change and which we cannot.

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If one didn't desire change would one even recognize the problem??

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