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Offlinenice1
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Proof
    #11185135 - 10/05/09 07:28 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Proof for us humans is just repeatability. Although science shows that repeatability is not necessary finite truth, its just the best and most logical obtainable answer. Its a statistic basically. IE Its most likely that a wall is solid as if I throw a ball at it 10,000 times it will bounce back every single time. However, quantum mechanics proves that actually the wall is not solid and statistically there is a chance that the ball will go through the wall. The chance is just so small and unlikely that it will probably never be observed.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Proof [Re: nice1]
    #11185356 - 10/05/09 09:20 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

so?

Or are you just displaying your vast knowledge of quantum mechanics?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinenice1
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Re: Proof [Re: Icelander]
    #11185386 - 10/05/09 09:37 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

No I'm not showing off.  My knowledge of QM is only basic.

I'm asking if I'm wrong?  If I've missed something?

Whenever I'm debating it often comes back to this truth problem.  The original post is my philosophy about truth. 

Its something I constantly have to explain in debate as most people I debate with seem to think that there is empirical truth, that some things are 100% true.

I don't think 100% true is possible.  No man should be 100% certain of anything.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Proof [Re: nice1]
    #11185393 - 10/05/09 09:39 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

I agree. Only a liar or a fool is 100% certain of anything. Science won't do that. So we go with our best guess and make do.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Proof [Re: Icelander]
    #11186079 - 10/05/09 12:38 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Only a liar or a fool is 100% certain of anything.




Are you sure those are the only options?


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Proof [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11186090 - 10/05/09 12:40 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Only a liar or a fool is 100% certain of anything.




Are you sure those are the only options?




I guess what he is saying is that he is either a liar or a fool.

I'm going with fool, but then again I could be lying..


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Proof [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11186180 - 10/05/09 12:59 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Then you read funny as I have never claimed to know what the truth was or if my truth was true.

So maybe there is someone who knows everything 100%

I'm willing to correct my position if they step  forward.

So I'll amend my statement and say that I'm convinced that only a liar or a fool is 100% sure they know absolultely what the truth is.

As as to the question if I am ever foolish that must be obvious. I'm certain that I'm often wrong also. I like to admit it because it takes the pressure off.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Proof [Re: Icelander]
    #11186224 - 10/05/09 01:10 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

As soon as you take something as proof or Truth, you are automatically closing off any or all other possibilities.  Its hard to admit, but i really don't know anything at all.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Proof [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11186235 - 10/05/09 01:12 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

It may be hard but it's honest and I personally admire it. (because it seems so rare at times)

I can honestly say I don't have a real friend who thinks otherwise.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Proof [Re: Icelander]
    #11186256 - 10/05/09 01:17 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

admire what?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Proof [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11186265 - 10/05/09 01:18 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

read it


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Proof [Re: Icelander]
    #11186274 - 10/05/09 01:20 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

I was taught this from philosophy classes i have taken in my life.  And it has been verified by my psychedelic experiences.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Proof [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11186278 - 10/05/09 01:20 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

I did but I don't want to assume and misinterpret you..

what I was thinking is that you admitting admiring we don't know anything.  But in an earlier quote from you you were  100% certain  there were only two choices in a persons reasoning.


Quote:

cyb3rtr0n said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Only a liar or a fool is 100% certain of anything.




Are you sure those are the only options?




I guess what he is saying is that he is either a liar or a fool.

I'm going with fool, but then again I could be lying..




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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Proof [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11186287 - 10/05/09 01:22 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

I already corrected that error in that thread. You may go back and read it.

It was a mistake on my part. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/05/09 01:23 PM)


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Proof [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11186312 - 10/05/09 01:28 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
As soon as you take something as proof or Truth, you are automatically closing off any or all other possibilities.  Its hard to admit, but i really don't know anything at all.




What about math?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Proof [Re: learningtofly]
    #11186328 - 10/05/09 01:30 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Theres no way to know if you are sane or strapped in some psycho ward believing in something called math that doesn't exist. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Proof [Re: learningtofly]
    #11186338 - 10/05/09 01:31 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Math is a language.  Language is not proof of anything.  Therefor math is not proof of anything.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Proof [Re: Icelander]
    #11186340 - 10/05/09 01:32 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Well math doesn't exist in the way that a tree exists but we have created math. And since we are the creators of math we make up all the rules for it, and therefore we know that math can be true in the sense that we have defined its boundaries.

Ex. 2 + 2 = 4. This is a true statement and in no way can it equal anything else


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Proof [Re: Icelander]
    #11186352 - 10/05/09 01:34 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I already corrected that error in that thread. You may go back and read it.

It was a mistake on my part. :shrug:




so you gave a third option YOU; and this makes it true now?

now that you are convinced that there is only  YOU, Liars, and fools.


what does it take to be you? can i be you?


Quote:

Icelander said:

So I'll amend my statement and say that I'm convinced that only a liar or a fool is 100% sure they know absolultely what the truth is.






does absolute truth have anxieties?


Edited by cyb3rtr0n (10/05/09 01:35 PM)


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Proof [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11186355 - 10/05/09 01:35 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

what are anxieties?


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