Home | Community | Message Board

Avalon Magic Plants
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineTelepylus
Babyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: god proof [Re: dorkus]
    #5727894 - 06/08/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Why spend so much energy arguing whether to call it Energy, Reality, Self, Big Mind, Brahman, Dog or God?

:grin:

It seems like a neverending story to me. :wink:

(eta; She is a girl and she is 5.)





Last time I checked, She came to Light the Lamp for EveryOne.


--------------------

Law of Love

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: god proof [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #5727938 - 06/08/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You can't reason your way to eternity. It's already here, right now.

I see the fundamental problem not so much a question of wether or not GOD exists, but wether or not people are willing to surrender the external definiton of who they are, anchored by their ego, as their true essence. Instead of trying to rationalize proof of "God" or a lack thereof, I think most people in this society would greatly benefit from quietting their internal dialogue instead.

It's happening every moment. Soak it up, stop grasping at it. Focus your intention on what you're manifesting with all your thoughts and actions, instead of feeding a model or intellectual construct with that energy. Those things are just maps and in the words of R.A.Wilson: The map is not the territory.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: god proof [Re: Basilides]
    #5727957 - 06/08/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
The Holy One and the Great Love are my favorite nicknames for "God"




Where can the Holy One be found?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5727963 - 06/08/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Cleave a piece of wood, lift a rock


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: god proof [Re: Basilides]
    #5727976 - 06/08/06 07:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Ok I've just done both, and I didn't see anyone. What am I doing wrong?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEvan_1107
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 129
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5727990 - 06/08/06 07:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

God/Supreme force/consciousness exists outside of time and space! When you learn how to transcend time and space you will start getting answers.

Religions praise perfectionalism and because trying to be perfect/find perfect place under religion, failure becomes inevitably and often. Fear of failure then leads to unrelenting anxiety, only fleetingly relieve by occasional feelings of accomplishment and success.

But the thing is every failure leads to self-anger/hatred for being weak and to anger and rage towards "THOSE" we think make us feel that way. But because parents and cultures and society demand that we suppress these feelings as being socially unaccpetable. Furthermore, so painful are they that the mind goes till further and represses them, and thus prevents them from ever rising into awareness.

The repression leads to depression, which is a feeling of hopelessness, helplessness and weakness. This is occasionally relieve by anger, which is welcomed for its feeling of power and strength. Over the long term depression can cause changes in the brains chemistry. Then regardless of later achievements and successes, deep down there is still a feeling of worthlessness often there for the remainder of ones life. Even drugs or therapy may not relieve this feeling.

However since repression/expression is a polar pair, what is repressed must be expressed. The mind does this in a way that concels what is repressed. Self hatred is converted into the hatred of the controllers. This is where the ego is at it's most supreme and thinks "I will get them before they get me" Or the self hatred is converted into illness thereby earning ones own grief and sadness of others which then is converted into turning back to religion, who actually got them to the state they were in, in the first place.

Sort of see the cycle do you? The last thing I want to do is offend anyone, but that is what religions do to people.

People are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe. Some choose to put blind faith into what they believe instead of actually asking questions and seeking.
There is no problem with that at all if the person is happy.

When you realise that objective reality (observed by another) is exactly the same as subjective reality (observed in your head) since all external observers are only images in your mind. Objective reality becomes nothing but an appearance or image in your mind, just as subjective reality.

The world in your mind is the only world that you can perceive directly. All bodies and other objects in this world are nothing but images in your mind.

Therefore when you realise they both the same then there is no need for conflict. Everyone needs to go on their own journey for the truth, those who are happy finding the truth by putting blind faith and not seeking the answers themselves then that is ok too. THERE is not right or wrong answer!

You see Time and Space is an illusion. All concepts that we have are branched off from those two main concepts.

Space makes us feel separate, and in turn makes us feel like an individual. Hence the ego is born (false self) and more concepts are born from fear/desire and what the ego wants. When you realise the feelings you are feeling aren't yours and that all these feelings are born from the ego, you start to wonder, I shouldn't be feeling this because the ego is only an image in your mind. Then you are able to disidentify with your ego, so you are free!

The first law of the ego, is there there is ALWAYS someone to blame. There is no “THEY”. “They” is what you have made up in your head. Since the ego is nothing but a concept, other concepts can appear to be threats to it including some concepts about the ego itself. Some of these conflict with the ego's self-esteem, such as concepts of being wrong, weak, defective, unattractive or guilty. The ego reacts to any of these threats by attacking, and thereby tends to see other seeming individuals or made up entity's as guilty, enemies or victimizers.

You see the ego always sees itself as the victim, never as the victimizer, and thus is able to justify virtually any action in defence of itself. The ego finds it very easy to ally itself with other "Concepts" because it finds strength in concepts. Since the concept of "I" requires the concept of it's polar opposite the non-"I" the "I" see's everything being into divided pairs. The concept of right necessarily requires the concept of wrong, good requires evil, God requires Satan, guilty requires innocence, light requires darkness, health requires illness, rich requires poor, knowledge requires ignorance etc. All these are merely concepts that are formed by drawing conceptual boundaries between the opposites in an inseparable pair of concepts. These boundaries are purely arbitrary and can be moved as the occasion demands. THERE IS NO GOOD/EVIL GOD/SATAN they are all concepts stemmed from the ego and made up in your mind!!!!

The ego does not exist. It is nothing but a presumption--the presumption that if thinking experiencing, or doing occurs there must be an entity that thinks experiences, or does. It is the identification of nonlocal consciousness with a thought in the mind. As a result of this identification, the experience of freedom that is really a property of the quantum self becomes limited and is falsely attributed to the ego, resulting in the assumption that the "I" entity has free will instead of being a completely conditioned product of repeated experiences.

The faith of violent clashes between religions have ended in executions massacres and wars for many many centries.
What is weird is religions often preach love without knowing what love is. Many fundamentailists interpret their god's love for them to be inseparable from its hatred for others. So they often create enemies on whom to displace their feelings of self-hatred, self fear, and self anger. Their (unrecognised) self hatred can be so unbearable that they try to compensate by believing that they are god's favoured few, and in the name of this god, endeavor to eliminate a competing religion by trying to convert, demonise or kill its adherents. Their fear of another religion or reaching can be even greater than their fear of death.

So in religion, mankind creates gods in its own images, and each religion then justifies its actions by claiming it speaks for its god. The more vengeful and punitive is the god, the more vengeful and punnitive are the people who believe in it. There for many adherents to Christianity are described as god fearing, and not god loving.

In the end, to be truely free it is about disidentifying with your ego.

Edited by Evan_1107 (06/08/06 07:15 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5727999 - 06/08/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

What did you see?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: god proof [Re: Evan_1107]
    #5728030 - 06/08/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

God/Supreme force/consciousness exists outside of time and space!

First, how can something (in this case, consciousness) which arises from the coming together of various causes and conditions within space-time be transcendent of space-time (and don't say "it just is")? Second, how can you (also within space-time), know this?

You see Time and Space is an illusion.

Why not take this to the next step and recognize that reality is illusionary/like a dream/unsubstantial. It lacks any inherent existence indepedent from any causes or conditions. Reality is empty!

And yes, I agree that most organized religion is a sham and a means of control.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: god proof [Re: Basilides]
    #5728033 - 06/08/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Some wood shavings and some dirt.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5728041 - 06/08/06 07:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That's odd. Keep trying, I guess.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5728052 - 06/08/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Some wood shavings and some dirt.




And oh how beautiful it was, wasn't it?

What you see in front of you is the clear light of the void. It is all the same.

Reality is nothing. Expectation is everything.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: god proof [Re: Basilides]
    #5728054 - 06/08/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

:lol:

I thought you were going to reply saying that the dirt and the wood shavings were the Holy One, I just didn't recognize them!

To which I would have replied that if the Holy One is one, without a second, if It is nondual, then why bother saying that the Holy One is One or all that other jargon? It just becomes a tautology: "God is everything" = "Everything is everything".


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5728058 - 06/08/06 07:31 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
:lol:

I thought you were going to reply saying that the dirt and the wood shavings were the Holy One, I just didn't recognize them!

To which I would have replied that if the Holy One is one, without a second, if It is nondual, then why bother saying that the Holy One is One or all that other jargon? It just becomes a tautology: "God is everything" = "Everything is everything".




Ops.  :grin:

Can you say Fractal?

Edited by dr_mandelbrot (06/08/06 07:33 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5728072 - 06/08/06 07:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

90% of this forum is semantical jibberish


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTelepylus
Babyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5728082 - 06/08/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:



Where can the Holy One be found?




The Holy One is brought into clear view and found by every and all consciousness centers that are Whole.

Becoming Whole is a matter of Wholesomeness.

Maintaining Wholesomeness is a matter of observing what is TRUE.
To begin with, an opinionate egotistical mind cannot differentiate between True & False.

Jesus said, "the only way to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven is if you become as little children."
This Innocence is Wholesomeness, or Holiness.

So the answer-
Where can the Holy One be found?

The Holy One is found in all things that are Wholesome & Right and Beautiful with Goodness.

It's just a matter of perspective.
Is it so awful hard to try to believe in the Power of Honest Goodness & Righteousness?
Try it for awhile, and see what happens.
I gaurantee you'll get hooked on it.
The Truth hurts at first like a sharp needle, but the dope an all-healing medicine.

It isn't your job to be perfect, or to study the bible or whatever.
Your job is simply to TRY to be Honest & Good.
And we all know that if you just TRY, you will succeed over time.

Of course honesty is going to involve trial and tribulation.
It is constantly on trial, as it's position demands it be, to arrive at Justice between the Liar and the Enemy of the Liar.


--------------------

Law of Love

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEvan_1107
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 129
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: god proof [Re: Telepylus]
    #5728102 - 06/08/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Would absolutely love you guys to read the SSUN Project I have posted in the Philosophy and Spirituality secton if you haven't already and give your opinions on it.:)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5725854/an/0/page/0

Time and space are only concepts devised by man. There is no scientific reason, why the future can't determine the past, rather than the past determine the future. Past, Present, And future are all happening at the same time. It is our emotions and memories that make it seem like time is real.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTelepylus
Babyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: god proof [Re: Evan_1107]
    #5728547 - 06/08/06 09:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i wasn't gonna say anything about the SSUN project
but since you've come all this way to ask opinions i'll give you mine

i've read the thread and i'm not impressed with it
it's a pale imitation of a model already put into place called
PST Mutual Dream Network

and i say this in all honesty, after considering the vast amounts of words needed to explain practically nothing but a vague general idea which that is already totally elementary to even the most amature initiate.

The statement "time and space are only concepts devised by man"
this is not altogether true.
it's a statement coming from a mind of a person who almost has a grasp on things(probably by listening to other people, or reading books),but not totally(because if you had actually traveled time you'd know that the statement you'd made is not altogether true, and you would've said it differently.)

the SSUN project is a nice idea
and i do hope that it brings together some friends and lasting bonds into some sort of sharing of loving wisdom,

but it's nothing new, there are thousands of identical models already floating around out there, built by good intentions usually.
only very rarely do they ever lift off the ground.
good luck with your project, and i hope you find it fulfilling.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEvan_1107
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 129
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: god proof [Re: Telepylus]
    #5728675 - 06/08/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Thankyou Telepylus for your honest feedback. It was however only the introduction and workshop 1, that has been presented. I will post up the 2nd Workshop for you to read now if you wouldn't mind, as I am interested if you direct me to any other links out there with this same information. I myself are only learning. From the concepts of time and space what are the concepts before they are devised?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: god proof [Re: Telepylus]
    #5728996 - 06/08/06 11:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The Holy One is found in all things that are Wholesome & Right and Beautiful with Goodness.

It's just a matter of perspective.
Is it so awful hard to try to believe in the Power of Honest Goodness & Righteousness?


What about things that are unwholesome and bad and ugly?

Different men have different views, "good"/"bad", "wholesome"/"unwholesome" are entirely subjective. And if you say that the Holy One is one but not the other, then it would be One of the Holy, not the Holy One.

It is by creating universal codes of "right" and "wrong" that the moralistic influence of the church has really impacted society, and IMO, it's been for the worse.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: god proof [Re: dblaney]
    #5729333 - 06/09/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Man, what happened to you in the last few weeks?  :confused:

You seem to have undergone a massive philosophical shift. The Jesus quote has been replaced by Rotton's founder :tongue:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* God Cannot Exist
( 1 2 all )
jim_dewit 5,365 39 08/22/02 06:29 PM
by Xlea321
* Finally! Proof of Gods Existence!!
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Mad_Buhdda_Abuser 8,001 87 03/03/10 04:27 PM
by Evolution
* if you believe in god
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
2Experimental 5,348 80 08/03/04 06:56 PM
by HerbanShaman
* Science's Quest for God
( 1 2 3 4 all )
trendalM 4,195 61 09/13/03 05:57 PM
by domite
* God Exists
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Zahid 11,637 113 03/18/03 03:57 PM
by falcon
* it seems therefore, that God does not exist. whiterastahippie 1,788 12 11/11/11 02:01 AM
by thefloodbehind
* WHO IS GOD???
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Shroomerious 4,703 75 04/13/06 03:12 PM
by blaze2
* Dose God exist? Take a look around.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Bavet 6,996 68 02/06/03 10:46 AM
by Strumpling

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
8,554 topic views. 0 members, 5 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 15 queries.