Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

MushroomMan Mycology
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9879941 -

To me Hume was merely pointing out that we can't coherently state that a necessary connection between one event and the next exists inherent in the events themselves, as all we see in lieu of cause and effect is a constant conjunction of various spatiotemporally contiguous things.  However, this is not to say that cause and effect do not exist whatsoever; Kant tries to argue that this necessary connection is a a result of synthetic a priori cognition that is then used as a framework with which to categorize our perceptions.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9880000 -



--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9880022 -

FOR THE LAST TIME THIS IS NOT MY ARGUMENT FOLKS "The universe exists because we are observing it."  That is the title of the thread, from a quote in the video.

This is my argument:

"According to quantum mechanics with out an observer there would just be this expanding super position of possibilities with nothing definite ever actually happening."

Observer = Anything that can cause a wave function to collapse.  It does this by reducing to a single one of the states after interaction with the external world.  Something can only be in a single state when an observer measures it.

Super position = The principle of superposition states that if the world can be in any configuration, any possible arrangement of particles or fields, and if the world could also be in another configuration, then the world can also be in a state which is a superposition of the two, where the amount of each configuration that is in the superposition is specified by a complex number.  For example, if a particle can be in position A and position B, it can also be in a state where it is an amount "3i/5" in position A and an amount "4/5" in position B.

Function Wave Collapse = The process by which a wave function, initially in a superposition of different eigenstates, appears to reduce to a single one of the states after interaction with the external world.

This is my argument.  Okay people.  Going to get a bite to eat....


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: deCypher]
    #9880039 -

Yeah, it sounds like we're saying similar things.  I'm not trying to argue that cause and effect don't exist, only that we can't truthfully say "x caused effect y"  because there is no x or y in reality, like Heraclitus said, everything is constantly changing.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Lion]
    #9880058 -

That truly clarifies things.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9880088 -

"According to quantum mechanics with out an observer there would just be this expanding super position of possibilities with nothing definite ever actually happening."

Don't take this as me being an ass, I seriously would like clarification of your argument you state there.  One more question:

Does the "superposition of possibilities" exist in reality, or in calculations of reality's properties?

Edited by xFrockx (02/27/09 07:39 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9880148 -

Quote:
This is quantum mechanics folks, anyone ever read up on it?  I feel like im the only one


:rolleyes:  What books have you read about quantum physics?  Plenty of people here know alot about quantum.  Im at a recruitment weekend for research in quantum optics right now.  What your saying is a combination of 80 year old common scientific knowledge (wave function collapse), so most of us have heard of it before.  What more are you implying?  Humans need not exist to collapse wave functions, they can do that on their own by interacting with each other and have been since long before we existed.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9880155 -

Quote:
Does the "superposition of possibilities" exist in reality, or in calculations of reality's properties?


It exists in reality as much as anything else exists in reality.  (It exists in reality)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: DieCommie]
    #9880182 -

So where is it?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9880184 -

Quote:
FOR THE LAST TIME THIS IS NOT MY ARGUMENT FOLKS "The universe exists because we are observing it."  That is the title of the thread, from a quote in the video.

This is my argument:

"According to quantum mechanics with out an observer there would just be this expanding super position of possibilities with nothing definite ever actually happening."



So CognitiveShift did NOT title the thread.

And Cognitive Shift WAS the QM pioneer who came up with the observer phenomenon.

Very interesting... :strokebeard:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9880223 -

xFrockx said:
So where is it?


All around you.  (after all, all possible states includes all possible positions)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: DieCommie]
    #9880279 -

If they are possibilities then why doesn't that mean they haven't happened yet?  If they haven't happened yet then how could they be around me?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9880319 -

I wrote out a paragraph explaining observation of wave functions and the like, but then I relied your not interested in learning it.


It funny how threads like this always appear in the spirituality forum and not the science forum.  I wonder why that is?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: DieCommie]
    #9880335 -

Qubit said:
I wrote out a paragraph explaining observation of wave functions and the like, but then I relied your not interested in learning it.


:sad:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: deCypher]
    #9880366 -

deCypher said:
Qubit said:
I wrote out a paragraph explaining observation of wave functions and the like, but then I relied your not interested in learning it.


:sad:


:sad: :sad:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: DieCommie]
    #9880369 -

What?  I don't know why you thought that.  I just would like to know how you think it is true that possibilities really exist.  I can't understand how you are making sense of that.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: deCypher]
    #9880373 -

He is very reliant! :yesnod:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9880474 -

lolz, usually I proof read my posts excessively too.

xFrockx:  I got the thought your posts were combative, trying to disprove quantum theory with philosophical logic.  If thats not the case, then I apologize.  Im honestly not exactly sure what your asking now that you have rephrased it.  I have the bad habit of turning spiritual/philosophy topics here into science ones; I cant really debate or discuss from a philosophical perspective very well I guess.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: DieCommie]
    #9880507 -

Oh, ill try to explain myself then.

I consider reality to be everything that is.  With this idea, I cannot reconcile the idea that possibilities are real.  Possibilities, for me, are things that have not happened, but could happen.  Because they have not happened, they do not exist in reality.  I cannot rule out that they could happen, but when they do, they are no longer possibilities, they are reality. 

Does that sound ok to you?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9880565 -

Yea, it sounds ok I suppose (the language is a little loose for the discussion I think; again I am shifting the discussion away from philosophy lol).  I hate to be so hackneyed but consider the double slit experiment.  The particles has the possibility to go through either slit with equal probability, and if observed it does go though one of the slits.  But if not observed it goes through both slits at once, because it had a probability of going through either slit.  In that sense the possibilities are 'real'.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* can you prove the existence of absolute, objective morality?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Anonymous 23,314 157 12/21/04 06:31 AM
by deafpanda
* *cough* EXISTENCE *hack*
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )		 buttonion 22,728 173 03/19/04 12:03 AM
by Frog
* Can't think of a good title, just read this damnit
( 1 2 all )		 Jared 4,395 22 09/20/01 05:19 PM
by Jared
* I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )		 Anonymous 13,411 109 02/13/04 11:28 PM
by SpecialEd
* Explaining why life after death exists
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 dumlovesyou 7,981 92 04/05/03 12:36 PM
by buttonion
* Finally! Proof of Gods Existence!!
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 Mad_Buhdda_Abuser 8,271 87 03/03/10 04:27 PM
by Evolution
* Implications of the Big Bang Origin and Fate of the Universe
( 1 2 3 all )		 Source 7,009 41 09/07/04 11:01 PM
by gettinjiggywithit
* Movement does not exist!
( 1 2 all )		 raytrace 3,149 22 05/13/02 02:14 AM
by raytrace

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,452 topic views. 0 members, 33 guests and 50 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.