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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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The implications of the non-existence of time..
    #9569670 -

What if time didn't exist? If there is only now, there can be no time between cause and effect, making them appear to happen simultanously... so how can we tell them apart?

For example... how do you determine weather thoughts trigger chemical reactions, or chemical reactions trigger thoughts? If cause and effect happen simultanously because there is only now, there is no way to determine which one happened first, there is no way to determine weather chemical reactions are the cause or the effect of the thoughts!

So what's your take on it. Are thoughts the cause of everything, or the effect of everything?

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9569734 -

Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once, and a thought is a chemical reaction.


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If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

Edited by Newfound_wonder (01/08/09 09:16 AM)

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #9569759 -

A thought is an electrical impulse caused by a chemical reaction... or is it the electrical impulse which causes the chemical reactions? How can you know if time doesn't exist to keep everything from happening all at once?

If we would assume time doesn't exist, just for the sake of this argument, wouldn't you agree, that it is impossible to determine which is the cause and which is the effect?

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9569872 -

Diaboleros said:
A thought is an electrical impulse caused by a chemical reaction... or is it the electrical impulse which causes the chemical reactions? How can you know if time doesn't exist to keep everything from happening all at once?

If we would assume time doesn't exist, just for the sake of this argument, wouldn't you agree, that it is impossible to determine which is the cause and which is the effect?


an impulse, whether you look at the electrical aspect or chemical aspect is just a signal.
a thought, or memory, or sensation will be always be a constellation of such signals in a relevant pattern.
what it relates to is the signal sources (sense organs, and memory of sensations) and previous patterns that have been associated with this pattern or similar ones.

as for cause and effect, both aspects are involved in different inseparable ways, but memory will be electical (the interference pattern) first and sensory will be physical world then chemical then electrical as a pattern is formed (with chemical support systems).

by the way I was unable to download your memory book since they want a name and email which is not available in my case


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #9569898 -

Newfound_wonder said:
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once


Everything is happening all at once.

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9569910 -

time does not exist.  and I'm cool with that.


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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9569955 -

I'm not sure it makes sense to say that time doesn't exist when our perception of it is so constant.  Certainly Einstein showed how time is relative, and quantum mechanics suggests that it can work backwards as well as forwards, but this isn't the same as saying that it doesn't exist.  Indeed, another thing Einstein demonstrated is that space and time are inextricably linked.


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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Silversoul]
    #9569970 -

Silversoul said:
I'm not sure it makes sense to say that time doesn't exist when our perception of it is so constant. 


Though one could argue that this is the result of social conditioning/consensus reality.

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9570003 -

Time is a word.  Time is like a science.  We make machines that work progressively better at keeping time accurately (according to our perception of the concept of time anyway).  I still have days that feel longer than some others, and who is to say that they weren't?  A clock?  Nah, the clock is just as imperfect as we are.  If all humans died off there would be no "time," only the thing that we measure it from.  The thing we measure time from is all I really care about.

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9570008 -

redgreenvines said:
by the way I was unable to download your memory book since they want a name and email which is not available in my case


I uploaded the book in the other thread just for you :heart:

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9570013 -

xFrockx said:
The thing we measure time from is all I really care about.


Likewise.  That's an interesting way of putting it.

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9570019 -

it stars saddam said:
Silversoul said:
I'm not sure it makes sense to say that time doesn't exist when our perception of it is so constant. 


Though one could argue that this is the result of social conditioning/consensus reality.


I don't see how social conditioning is required for me to perceive that one thing happens after another.


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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9570028 -

Time is simply the progression from improbable states to probable states.  Thats it.  No human perception or social conditioning required.

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9570030 -

Quote:
xFrockx said: The thing we measure time from is all I really care about.


Spoken like a real scientist and true philosophist. Who cares about time? LOL

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9570183 -

it stars saddam said:
Silversoul said:
I'm not sure it makes sense to say that time doesn't exist when our perception of it is so constant. 


Though one could argue that this is the result of social conditioning/consensus reality.


I couldn't agree more whole-heartedly :wink:

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9571270 -

it stars saddam said:
Newfound_wonder said:
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once


Everything is happening all at once.


      Quantum entanglement:  There was an experiment with six atoms of Be. Starting the calculations at the end-point,  the experiment concluded with six atoms being in the “CAT state” (Everything happening at once) However… it only lasted few seconds and all the atoms came back to reality (Time) .


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Wave.
'And for this reason repentance (metanoia) is an elevating means. For he who feels impatience with the circunstances in which he finds himself, devises means of escape.
  Now the chief thing in purification is the will. For then both deeds and words lend a helping hand. But, when the will is absent, the whole purificatory discipline of initiation is...'

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Recondicom]
    #9581085 -

If there wasn't time then the cause and effect wouldn't be happening they would just be. "Happening" implies that time has passed for some duration.


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"The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation." -- Dr. Arroway Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 162.


Join the movement! Click here to open your eyes

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9581745 -

You are human; can you really imagine the absence of time, or the absence of space, or infinity, and so on?

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Daedramaster]
    #9582211 -

Hypothetically if Time is change and motion then:
        Imagine.
  As above so is below. I think therefore I exist.  The Universe is expanding at a faster speed.  If Time is infinite then Time existed before the beginning of the Universe.  Energy is a creation of the big bang and motion.  Dark matter is the original state.  Whether consciousness belongs to the original state or the ever changing Time wave or both is the philosophical question.  The speed of expansion… The time- space continuum.


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Wave.
'And for this reason repentance (metanoia) is an elevating means. For he who feels impatience with the circunstances in which he finds himself, devises means of escape.
  Now the chief thing in purification is the will. For then both deeds and words lend a helping hand. But, when the will is absent, the whole purificatory discipline of initiation is...'

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Re: The implications of the non-existence of time.. [Re: Recondicom]
    #9582581 -

I wasn't interested in discussing weather time existed or not, but I was interested in discussing the implications of the non-existance of time. What if time didn't exist? What would be the consequences?

IMO, time doesn't exist. It's nothing but a concept of the human mind to better understand reality. Everything happens all at once, there is only NOW. The future doesn't exist and will be created from the now. And the past doesn't exist anymore, and was nothing but a previous version of the now. Try to measure now, and you will always end up with an infinite small amount of time, which is the proof that time doesn't exist.

The earth isn't flat. Time doesn't exist. Google it. There's plenty of better explanations than mine out there.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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