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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
    #9374296 -

axl said:
Ok.  I suppose there may be a certain combination of definitions that an atheist can rely on when saying "I practice a disbelief in the existence of a deity."

I guess I just don't believe in Atheism.
I'm going to go with the combination of definitions that means Atheists really do believe in God.

    athe·ism
1archaic : ungodliness , wickedness2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity


Wickedness? You need to get more recent (circa this century) definitions.

Atheism isn't "practicing" disbelief, atheists don't need to practice what we believe - we simply know it's the truth and don't need constant reassurance.

Besides, I know deep, deep down in the abyss of your soul, that you know a god doesn't exist.


--------------------
Creator of The Ethnoring

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
    #9374310 -

We're changing language as we go, so start defining things how you want them! I've already started a few slangs myself.

As for the OP, I think you really don't understand the concept of believing if to you mustering up the concept of god is believing in his existance.


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Let's get the fuck out of here.

Edited by Bernackums (12/05/08 07:29 PM)

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
    #9374325 -

axl said:
I just think that by using the word "God" in a sentence means that you acknowledge its existence.


This reminds of the equally flawed "ontological argument" for the existence of God: essentially, that his existence is implied by the fact that one can imagine such an entity.

I can't speak for others, but I myself am an atheist, and I can assure you that I absolutely do not believe in the existence of God.  It's often said that "there are no atheists in foxholes," but even in the most stressful and frightening situations of my life, I have never so much as entertained the idea of God or prayer.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
    #9374518 -

Quote:
They say we only use 10% of our brains.


That's a myth. Just look it up on google and you'll see. We use all of our brain, just not all at once. Different parts are the brain are used for different tasks. As for the percentage of "brain power" specific tasks use, no one really knows. But, we do know that if you used 100% of your brain at once you would have a massive seizure.

Quote:
Our brains can't even comprehend the possibility of something with no beginning.  Just like we can understand some things that mushrooms can't (maybe), there have to be just as many things out there that we don't understand.  The answer is God.


We can't possibly understand it and yet we can confidently know the answer to it? How does that make sense?

Quote:
God is the interaction between us all ... I haven't seen anything in religious beliefs that says heaven can't be here on Earth.


I don't see what this has to do with the concept of God. It seems more like you're trying to apply supernatural concepts onto the realities of human interaction while at the same time not providing any rationale reason for why it must be supernatural in nature. It sounds wishy-washy to me.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: iamconfused]
    #9375008 -

Yes.  I am wishy washy - isn't that the nature of philosophical discussions?  If I was certain about all my statements, I would not have posted this thread.

I am applying supernatural concepts into human interactions.

But don't take my quote out of the context.  The answer is God, and God is the unknown...meaning God is our answer to the unknown, meaning there is a lot we don't know.

Maybe I am just retarded and it is just my brain that can't comprehend a beginning.  Where did the big bang come from?  And where did that come from and how big is space.  These seem like they should be elementary concepts that we still don't know; and I guess if we already use all our brains (and thanks for clarifying that because it has erroneously formed many of my opinions), then we don't have as much hope as I thought we did.

ALso, my definitions are from the current Webster's Dictionary.  Wickedness was only one definition.  I am not endorsing it.

Edited by axl (12/05/08 09:24 PM)

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
    #9375090 -

I think this is a good thought ^_^

My uncle says that there's no such thing as empty space, and argues that the perceived "empty space" between all of the sub-atomic particles is where "God" is =P


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People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. --Albert Einstein

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
    #9375111 -

axl said:
Ok...it is a circular argument, but God is a mental concept that can't be denied, and I think that atheists especially recognize the power that we have in our minds.


Exactly. "In our Minds." There's a difference between the concept of God in your mind, and the belief that there is actually a huge invisible being, separate from ourselves, in the sky =P


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People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. --Albert Einstein

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: Ratci]
    #9375253 -

I suspect that the usage of "God" as a metaphor for the ultimate nature of reality, transcendence, the universe, etc. mostly occurs among those who are intelligent enough to have rejected scriptural literalism but have not yet completely overcome their religious programming.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9376106 -

Well, that is probably true about the religious programming.  It is hard for me to think of any society that has not been formed through religious programming though.

When I sit in church, standing up and kneeling down, and reciting crazy stuff, I think we are like pigeons.
Pigeons do all those crazy dances because they are superstitious and think that whatever they were doing previously was the reason they had been fed the last time.  So if they were bobbing their heads, or turning around, they will keep doing those things.
Church rituals seem very similar.
The church rituals I agree may be far fetched.  One thing they do is bring people together.
I think God has gotten a bad rap from all the people who have difficult notions of God and have fought over it and excused their actions with it.
Even the bible instructs you that real prayer isn't asking God to give you something - the biblical notion of God will never give you something that you ask for - you pray to do the right thing yourself.  The best example I can think of is from this book I read - the guy was trying to blow up this bridge, and he knew he would most likely be shot.  He did not pray to God to save his life, but prayed that he would have the fortitude to do the right thing.
Most religions are just trying to get it right like everyone else is.  I've traveled most of the earth as a sailor, and it seems like most different cultures just want what is best for everyone.

I think my problem was being overly idealistic in thinking that most people want what is best for everyone.  It is that desire for social benevolence that I feel is rooted in God.

Another problem may be that I can not think of any ancient civilizations that did not believe in God.  I feel like our notions are socially programmed by what our predecessors have done, and all the history I can think of revolves around God.

That's it.  I'll quit babbling.  Thank you everyone I respect your input, and have discovered many great things.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: iamconfused]
    #9377507 -

Quote:
As for the percentage of "brain power" specific tasks use, no one really knows. But, we do know that if you used 100% of your brain at once you would have a massive seizure.


I know that if my computer is running 100% of its CPU, it is not a good time to start downloading.
:hehehe:

Also I would say that some would benefit from a good disk cleanup and defrag.


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God *DELETED* [Re: axl]
    #9377602 -

Post deleted by Gr33nday43

Reason for deletion: That's a secret.


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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: Gr33nday43]
    #9384918 -

It's pretty easy to prove God exists if you can redefine "God" to mean whatever the hell you want!

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: Gr33nday43]
    #9384972 -

I probably need to work out this expression a little better, because I think you seriously misunderstood what I am trying to say.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
    #9385084 -

Before you rethink everything, let me just try to point a few more unclear points:

Quote:
Why do people fight the idea that the bible itself is a parable sent by God - God being the natural evolution of our species as we interact together.


What does this mean? If God is a state that we can evolve to, which we haven't evolved to yet (according to you), then how could God have already sent us a parable?  Is there more than one God? Or is it that our evolutionary goal is to become one with God (which is what I think you meant)?

To me, it's just funny and ridiculous to try and guess God's motives. As if we could know! We'd have as much of a chance understanding God as a hamster in a cage would have of understanding the life of his human master. Meaning, none.

Quote:
If you live right, then you are making steps toward all of us reaching the heavenly state, and vice versa for hell.


What is a heavenly state? Is that when no one is starving, everyone has a home, and there is no war or murder? Would we constantly be full of love and cheery feelings? If the heaven and hell dynamic plays out here on earth, then why do a lot of despicable people get to live in the relative heaven of an America, while someone more virtuous might be born war torn Africa and abducted by an abusive militant group at the age of 8? How does God play into this? And for that matter, why is Africa practically hell on earth?

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: iamconfused]
    #9385236 -

OK here goes -
The parable thing is an argument against religions that follow the bible strictly.  When I pitched this to a Baptist, he told me that the bible was written by the hand of God and exactly what is written in there is how it all happened.  In my view everything ever written down is subject to interpretation though.
This whole thing really is a very wishy washy argument.  Basically in a way everyone is right and everyone is wrong.  A few posts up there - redefining god to whatever you want - that is all I mean.  Everything everywhere is up to interpretation.
Personally, I really do believe that most people individually want to do the right thing.  The whole balancing act between the earth and people and animals, all that good stuff is god.
For others, it might be something different, but everyone has got to believe in something.  People have been redefining God since as far back as I know.  Most have some good things to say.
Of course, one could believe that we are in some way doomed.  I choose to think positively and let my actions follow through to results.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
    #9385296 -

Well, I look at it like this. Where has thousands of years of speculating subjectively on the nature of God brought us? Nothing. All we know is that we still know nothing. Socrates told us that 2,500 years ago, and that realization has been routinely trotted out as a big philosophical accomplishment every couple of hundred years, when all of the subjective speculation reaches the inevitable pinnacle of nonsense and has to be reset (think Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" in the 17th century, or Sartre's existentialism in the 20th century).

Meanwhile, in the last couple of hundred years, what has the separation of church and state and the scientific method brought us? A lot of good (or, at the least, a whole lot of progress, for better or worse), most would say. Making arguments for God is intellectual masturbation. It feels good but you're not accomplishing anything.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
    #9385300 -

I think you can still love your parents
but not struggle to make their terms your terms.
many of the ideas that have enslaved people are ideas that don't work.

we don't have to try and figure them out nor make the old names stick to real things that we experience to add validity to the suffering of our parents.

i.e.  existential angst and fear do not mean that daddy's god is after me.
in fact it may not have much meaning altogether on it's own.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: iamconfused]
    #9385303 -

Just because no proof has been found yet does not mean that the proof doesn't exist.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
    #9385319 -

are you arguing about the admissability of proof or opinion.
any opinion can be tried,
my point is
if it does not fit,
why keep trying?


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9385329 -

Monkey curiosity to alleviate the monotony?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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