Home | Community | Message Board


Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites.
    #2285291 - 01/29/04 10:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They are both beliefs with a sense of certitude. Here's a quote from Eric Hoffer on the matter...

"The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not."


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Evolving]
    #2285551 - 01/29/04 11:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

True, they are both a set of beliefs that are more synonomous than they are antonyms. However, they are diametrically opposed, so they are opposite in that sense.


The theist proclaims I have a God
The atheist proclaims I have no God
SpecialEd proclaims God dammit, this beer is warm


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Evolving]
    #2285834 - 01/30/04 01:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They are both beliefs with a sense of certitude.

Not from this reader's viewpoint. My stance is one of, "I have YET seen no reason to believe." This is flexible and experiential. If shown something of purpose, divine intervention, the power of prayer, or being able to communicate with some higher power, then my stance would change.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Swami]
    #2286390 - 01/30/04 07:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: ]
    #2286699 - 01/30/04 11:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the term "opposite" really depends on the frame of reference, the "center point" and the criteria being applied. and I don't see how the title of this thread doesn't correlate to that quote. all your doing is saying that the criteria is the belief itself, while Evolving is saying the criteria is the degree of certitude, in which case he's right that atheism and theism are not opposites.

uncertainty (agnosticism) is the opposite of certainty (theism) is the opposite of certainty (atheism).

it all depends on the criteria and your frame of reference.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2286744 - 01/30/04 12:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you for clarifying that. Perhaps I should have been more 'wordy,' but I assumed the meaning would have been clear.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Evolving]
    #2287077 - 01/30/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Can I not say I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism?
Can I not say I'm an agnostic leaning towards theism?

Since agnosticism is more or less a pragmatic take on the God question, a "working absolute" forms after time (read: experience). Our window of experience is small, therefore, there is the possiblility that we are unable to reach a truthful conclusion. HOWEVER, a pragmatic approach to this quandary throws this futile possibility (of our inability of coming to a truthful conclusion) out the window. Sure, it's an assumption to think that in our lifetimes we can come to legitimate conclusions about the universe... but that's all we have and you'd be fooling yourself to think otherwise.

So where does this lead us?
I'm glad I asked that. Well, I think most here would agree that doubt is a good thing to keep around. Likewise, a set of "working absolutes" comes in handy from time to time. So I guess I'm saying is that as long as one values both doubt and a set of "working absolutes," then we're all just agnostics leaning one way or the other.

Enough of this black and white shit. Fuckers.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Evolving]
    #2287089 - 01/30/04 02:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A certain quote comes to mind:

"A disbelief in God doesn't usually result in a belief in nothing. A disbelief in God usually results in a belief in anything."

(I believe it was directed towards Athiesm)



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Evolving]
    #2287285 - 01/30/04 03:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't find no opposite between these three. They are just three different views on a certain matter.

Atheism means I don't believe there is a god.
Theism means I believe there is a god.
Agnosticism means I need proof if there is a god.

The "I don't care if there is a god" is an alternate choice, like there may be sand in your shoes...I don't care if there is sand in my shoes. The example is not bad because in my opinion the possibilities of the two examples are equal.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2287443 - 01/30/04 05:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Agnosticism means I need proof if there is a god.



Actually...
Quote:

ag?nos?ti?cism n.
1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.




--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Sclorch]
    #2287689 - 01/30/04 07:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What do you mean actually? You said the same thing with other words. Agnosticism is a Greek word derived from the word Agnosto(A-gnosto:Not-Known).


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Sclorch]
    #2287763 - 01/30/04 07:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So where does this lead us?
I'm glad I asked that.


It's fun having your own private conversation. :lol:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Sclorch]
    #2287769 - 01/30/04 07:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Can I not say I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism?
Can I not say I'm an agnostic leaning towards theism?


No, you must take a fixed position. That's the law.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2287803 - 01/30/04 08:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
What do you mean actually? You said the same thing with other words. Agnosticism is a Greek word derived from the word Agnosto(A-gnosto:Not-Known).



So you're telling me that there is no difference between someone saying "I need proof" and "there can be no proof"?

You know that doesn't make sense, right?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Sclorch]
    #2287831 - 01/30/04 08:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I believe the correct definition implies both of them. Many friends of mine are agnosticists and they share the same view.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2288107 - 01/30/04 10:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
I believe the correct definition implies both of them. Many friends of mine are agnosticists and they share the same view.



Then, sadly, many of your friends are just incorrect.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Sclorch]
    #2288195 - 01/30/04 10:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If I were you, I would first think and then talk. Think first if it really implies both of them and stop rushing into conclusions.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2288257 - 01/30/04 11:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oooo... a sore spot for you, eh?

Well, I intended no insult. I have given and used the correct definition of an agnostic. If your "agnostic" friends tell you that proof of the existence or inexistence of God is something that is attainable, then they are NOT agnostics.

But go ahead and take this the wrong way too...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Sclorch]
    #2288303 - 01/30/04 11:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Atheism and Theism are not Polar Opposites. [Re: Sclorch]
    #2288461 - 01/31/04 12:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sore spot? Ha! You made me laugh! Again! For something like that to happen, there should be respect first to the opinions of each other which untill now, I have none for you. I know very well what an agnostic(playing with words get you nowhere) is and so do my friends, I tried to explain it to you that it implies both our definitions but you don't seem to understand. Mr. Mushrooms is correct. They believe that there can be no proof. But they do not deny the possibility that it exists. If there were proof, they could believe.

I am Greek. This is a Greek word. I know what this word means. Either learn Greek or review your sources.

There is a thin line between being rude and being bald. I suggest you put your glasses on.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* There are **NO** Dualities or Polar Opposites in Emotions..... PhanTomCat 1,408 13 02/18/05 12:13 PM
by gettinjiggywithit
* Polar opposition dirtworshipper 344 0 07/26/07 02:24 PM
by dirtworshipper
* Atheism vs Agnosticism
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
SkorpivoMusterion 5,721 113 02/10/06 01:21 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Atheist poll ThorA 861 7 11/02/07 01:44 PM
by elbisivni
* I don't think true atheism can exist.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Visionary Tools 4,696 74 04/24/08 08:35 AM
by zouden
* atheists really do believe in God
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
axl 5,243 108 02/06/10 06:06 PM
by Poid
* Question For & About Atheism
( 1 2 3 4 all )
EntheogenicPeace 4,093 67 08/22/08 01:34 AM
by Limus
* Opposites SkorpivoMusterion 525 8 02/02/05 07:52 PM
by PhanTomCat

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
2,529 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.06 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.