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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Thoughts on Atheism, and Nolabelism
    #1544825 - 05/13/03 12:47 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Before I begin, it's important for me to clarify that I am neither an atheist, nor a religious person.

For me, atheism was a stage in my life, kind of like a "phase". I'm sure that for some, it is a title that sticks for quite some time, however, I only called myself an atheist for a period of about 5 or 6 years.

Atheism was an expression of my rejection of religion, and the notion that the universe, including all life on earth was created by an all-powerful, all-knowing "god" that had rules for us to follow if we were to join him in his kingdom of heaven. It was a way for me to proudly proclaim, "I am not religious, I don't accept your god(s), and I won't live my life according to any institution's rulebook."

After this very necessary proclamation during my personal journy of self-discovery, I started to feel empty. I had accepted that I didn't "believe" in the notion of god as it was presented to me by various religions, but I still had many questions as to the origin of life on this planet, human consciousness, and the creation of the universe. I still didn't know who I was, how I got here, or where exactly I was going.

Since the option of using religion to fill in the answers to my questions had been eliminated, I suddenly found that I was completely lost. There were groups of people who were churchgoers, who I saw as being led by somebody along a path that led to various illusions. Places of bliss that didn't actually exist, but were being collectively imagined. Pictures were being painted by a shepherd, which would be put on display for the sheep, and thus an artificial reality construct was being perpetuated. Since I could not take part in this, I had nothing but my own uninfluenced imagination to ponder the meaning of life..... And sometime during this period was when I discovered that I no longer needed to call myself an atheist anymore. NOT because I had become religious or started "believing" in god, but because I had discovered something else, which existed inside myself, inside all life and everything in all of the cosmos.

This was something that could not be defined using science or language of any sort. It was something that couldn't be measured. It was simply an omnipresent, continuously-evolving force which flowed through the entire universe, and all life contained in it. It was growth itself. Pure energy, pure light, pure consciousness... a collective consciousness of which we are all a part. THIS is what the concept of god became to me. It was not god as described by Judeo-Christian religions, and it was not really "god" at all. To this day I don't use the word "god" to describe this force because of the multitude of interpretations of that word.

To me, being an atheist means to not subscribe to THIS particular notion of "god". I think that people who call themselves atheists are perhaps going through a phase of religious rejection, and through searching within themselves and within nature, they can find something which cannot even be described as god, for a simple 3 letter word cannot adequately describe a force which flows through all life throughout the universe. However, it is this force which made me feel that calling myself an atheist was a little bit too limiting. I find that when somebody believes in god, atheists dismiss them immediately, just as when somebody says they are an atheist, people who understand (not believe in) a higher power can sometimes dismiss them as being spiritually closed.

I'm just throwing out thoughts here, but I am suggesting that atheists should consider abandonning the title of "atheist" which they give themselves because it lumps them into a category of robotic, soulless, mechanical human beings. I know many people who call themselves atheists who are in fact very spiritually in tune... they just don't know it because their adopted "atheist" title actually tells them that they are not spiritual in the slightest sense, and that to be spiritually in-tune means to believe in a sort of "god".

A problem I always have is that religious people are always trying to tell me that I am atheist, and atheists are always trying to tell me that I am religious. I AM NEITHER, and I am suggesting that NEITHER label is necessary for ANYONE. Both religious people and atheists alike are trying to define who they are, and in communicating this to other people, we try to use a word to represent what we believe. Atheist, Christian, Catholic, Hindu, Jew, Muslim, Agnostic... All these words do is cause wide-scale misunderstandings. People's definitions of each of these titles vary so greatly, especially today, that they are actually blending together, and the words themselves are losing their value and credibility.

I have also noticed a growing number of people such as myself who choose not to define their beliefs... simply because we have none. The thing that atheists and religious people have in common is that they both HAVE "beliefs". Either "believe" in god or "believe" there is no god. Religious people will say they KNOW there is a god, and atheists will say that they KNOW there isn't. Now, this will make me sound like an agnostic to some... Agnosticism, to me, is silly, because the idea behind that title is that the existence of god cannot be proven or disproven. Well with all respect to agnostics... NO SHIT! The notion of god, the higher power, the great spirit, the force or whatever you call it, cannot be proven. It simply has to be felt and understood.

I always say that you have to KNOW something before you BELIEVE in it. So many people get that backwards. They try to believe before they know, and their blind faith produces a constructed reality which a person then fools themselves into KNOWING... this is not true knowledge. True knowledge is arrived at through a process of observation, experimentation, and most enigmatic of all: INTUITION, which cannot be confused with faith. Intuition is a tool we are all equipped with... a sixth sense which can literally "detect" truth, if you learn how to use it properly. Faith is a feeling based on hope... and no amount of hope can make true something which is not intuitively understood.

I have gone on quite a bit here so I must close... I apologize if I've rambled a bit. On a closing note, I have a call to all atheists...

I was once one of THEM. I then became one of YOU. Now I have become something which transcends any religious or nonreligious denomination. Take a look at what you call yourself, and how many interpretations of that word exist. Now, think of how much better off you will be without allowing a mere word to misrepresent who you really are.

You are not really an atheist. You are not really religious. You are a unique individual, with your own personal connection to the universal force, and this connection can not be represented by any single word.

Consider converting to No-labelism :smile:


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


Edited by Amnesiac (05/13/03 12:54 PM)


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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Thoughts on Atheism, and Nolabelism [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1544865 - 05/13/03 01:12 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

I AM NEITHER, and I am suggesting that NEITHER label is necessary for ANYONE.
-----------------

This post was SUPER !

You really hit the nail on the head with that quote !!!

It is the LABELS that are the problems !!!!


For Example:

Instead of labelling "GOD" [ or any other name for that matter ] which usually equates to BOSS  which tends to lead to RETALIATION and PROBLEMS and SUFFERING, etc... 

Why not accept the term  FRIEND instead...  which then, includes, FRIENDSHIP which encompasses TRUST,  TOGETHERNESS,  FAMILY [ I'd be inclined to say that we are all a part of the same family ]...


THEN, the "RULES" as they have been outlined are no longer rules, but rather SUGGESTIONS...

Silly analogy....  A parent who suggests to a child not to touch a HOT ELEMENT on a stove.. cause then they'll get burned....  The child, can definately have trust in the parent...  What is suggested... is TRUE.



You stated: "I always say that you have to KNOW something before you BELIEVE in it."

If a great friend of yours, whom you trusted, was to tell you not to do something because the outcome would be tragic for YOU,  would you listen?....  Or would you do it anyways? ....Because you needed to know and to see for yourself.... [ Consider that such a decision would lead to serious regret ]


...  Perhaps the use of concepts and symbolism is an attempt to get past the labels...

I'll agree with the label of SPIRITUALISM though.....  Because to me, it is all about the spirit of FRIENDSHIP !

:grin:





 


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



Edited by Deiymiyan (05/13/03 01:23 PM)


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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Thoughts on Atheism, and Nolabelism [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1544903 - 05/13/03 01:27 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Great additions Deiymiyan! I love your boss/friend example, I have considered the exact same thing before. A "boss" indicates somebody who has power and control over you. Somebody who you must obey without questioning. If this "boss" were considered a "friend", then the work environment would be more based on co-operation, rather than a workplace dictatorship.

Anyways, I'd love to add more to this right now, but I have to go work in a dusty warehouse for 8 hours or else my BOSS will be really pissed!

:smile:


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Thoughts on Atheism, and Nolabelism [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1545197 - 05/13/03 03:06 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

i used to call myself an atheist too, in the same sence, i don't follow 'there' rules ect.
and one day i just kinda started to think about all different kinds of religions and faiths,
and decided that i really do believe there is something more, i just dont' know what.
and i still think that, i feel anything is possible, so i dont' just narrow it down to one beliefe.

and i agree, that boss/friend example was great


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Thoughts on Atheism, and Nolabelism [Re: soylent_green]
    #1546564 - 05/13/03 10:53 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

I bet a lot of people open this thread, see how long the first message is, and then hit the back button... hehehe


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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InvisiblePhoshaman
L.A, L.A., BigCity of Dreams.
Male
Registered: 06/02/99
Posts: 1,521
Loc: Downtown L.A.
Re: Thoughts on Atheism, and Nolabelism [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1546933 - 05/14/03 01:27 AM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Beautiful post...

I was curious as to what your age was when you labeled yourself as an 'atheist?'

And again at what age you found yourself.

Oh, by the way, if I was to make myself a convert to 'No-labelism,' I would be attaching a label to me. ;-)

If I were asked to label you though, I would most likely consider you an agnostic.

Nice to meet you.



--------------------


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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Thoughts on Atheism, and Nolabelism [Re: Phoshaman]
    #1547001 - 05/14/03 01:58 AM (14 years, 13 days ago)

PHOSHAMAN:

I was about 12 years old when I began referring to myself as an atheist, and about 18 when I began to think of myself as something else.

About converting to no-labelism, I realize the irony that no-labelism is itself a label :smile: It is just a joke :tongue:

Label me an agnostic if you must, but I reject that title :smile:
Being agnostic would mean that I believe that acquiring the truth about the existence of a higher power would be impossible, and that is not the case. It is very possible if one uses the right methods of "truth detecting". With this it is possible to actually feel and "see" the collective consciousness or great spirit. If you are into shamanism then the concept of "seeing" should have significant meaning to you. I don't know if you are just using that name or if you are actually into shamanism, but it's another "way" that I am interested in.

And it's nice to meet you too :smile:


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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