The problem with you all is your attitude. By no means i was trying to insult or even to make a detour in this discussion. If you feel absolutely comfortable about you religious beliefs please continue just don't spank the blind guy ok ? Or is that your are told to do ?
If i thought you were puppets i had a reason, read the whole stuff again and give me one single reason to a come with such an attitude towards me, name calling ? Obscene ? WTF ?!?! Forgive me if I say what I think and explain it plain.
Besides, if your religious beliefs makes you all behave the same way, that's not my fault, you should reconsider your position as being religious robots, drones of your higher illusion. I even supported Zahid for gods "or whatever" sake.....
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Edited by MAIA (04/05/03 12:41 PM)
Could you please cite a reference for this?
This is common knowledge among most Muslims. The Muslims endured the violence from the Meccans, and instead of fighting back, Muhammad had his early followers cross the Red Sea to seek refuge in the Christian Kingdom of Abyssinia. While Muhammad had to do this slowly and over a long period of time, it was the only way to be discreet. When the Meccans found out, they sent two ambassadors to the Abyssinian king to petition that the king should return the Muslims to Mecca as criminals. The king eventually allowed the Muslims to stay, ruling that Islam was more similiar to Christianity than Idol worship. The actual first armed struggle that took place was when the Meccan army made its first military strike against the Muslims. At this point, the Prophet had a revelation commanding the Muslims to defend themselves.
I don't buy drugs. I don't know what to suggest. There is a drive-thru liquor store not far from where I live owned by Muslims. My wife and I have vaccillated back and forth on buying anything from them since 9/11. We had established a prety good rapport with them prior to 9/11, sharing places to buy tahini and recipes and stuff.
We have always wondered if some of that money went to Al-Queda. I think more importantly to me is whether you would continue to give money to the group if you knew it went to Al-Queda. Would you?
Don't you think it's a little naive to generalize anything Islamic as a 'possible financer of terrorism'? Islam is nearly the size of Christianity. It's big, and the actual number of Muslims who are terrorists is very small - the problem is, is that they make alot of noise because of their style of self sacrifice which shocks the rest of the world. To me, those Muslims selling alcohol seemed very American and right at home in the land of the free. :-) They were harmless Muslim immigrants living the dream, not some al-Qaeda charity disguised as a Liquor store - but you, seem to be overly paranoid of Islam which is something I find hard to tolerate.
So after your neighbor country was attacked in the most vicious way possible in its history, then you decided to join a group somewhat alighed with the ones who attacked it?
That would be like me joining them after they bombed Montreal or Toronto. I cannot understand that.
24 Canadians died in the September 11th attacks. It was terrorists who carried out the hijackings, not the religion of Islam. The terror attacks intrigued me about the religion of Islam, and when I read further, I learned about its true roots and I found myself in humility before it.
I share a similar history. My 'conversion' to the Jesus movement was predicated on "experience". But after I learned a few critical thinking skills I was able to extricate myself from delusion.
You're free to do as you will. :-)
You and Markos both claim some kind of "gnosis" to be the foundation for what each of you claim to be Truth. And yet one must be right and the other wrong. The fundamental rule of logic is the Law of Non-contradiction. It cannot be violated.
Have you ever considered the possibility that we are both right?
Does it concern you at all that you might be in error? Or do you mindlessly follow a faith built upon experience without checking it out to see if it adheres to reason? These issues are serious ones that require serious thought.
It does not concern me because my intentions are not evil in any way. I have a relationship with God that is purely innocent and humble. God does not ordain a series of fundamental rules and semantics in order to have a relationship with Him. Whether you call your faith a relationship with Jesus Christ, or a relationship with Allah, it is all the same to the One God. Al-Ghayb/gnosis is an experience of the one and only God.
And lastly, I too, am interested in the surahs that declare apostates are not to be killed if they are not under the military section you referred to. Could you post them?
"Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clear from error.'' 2:256
Indeed, it's been an interesting dialogue. :-)