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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7856211 -

Well said my fox friend!


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"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here." - Richard Dawkins

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: wyldeman007]
    #7856347 -

Fox? Are you seeing things that aren't there? Not a good sign.


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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: wyldeman007]
    #7856870 -

wyldeman007 said:
Is being anorexic mental illness?



LOL yes it is, well at least thats what my psychology professor said, who happens to be a pyschologist/PhD from Berkeley. If you wanna disprove her go ahead.


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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7857123 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Adopting a handed-down myth is the antithesis to thinking.

What you guys are saying is that there is absolutely no reason to believe in God, but you do anyway. That, my friends, is a sign of mental illness.


Not all religious people have adopted a handed-down myth; some actually think about it...hard to believe in our country, I know.

People have every reason to believe in God, and every reason not to. Many religious people are religious because they have a reason to be, not because they are blindly accepting what someone has told them, myself included.

Also, the point I was making about the rational mind...believing in any religion is as baseless as not believing in any religion. You have no reason to believe in religion, and you have no reason not to believe in religion. That's why it's called faith. Religion, and how right it/your view is, is no more provable or evidenced than the rational mind, and how right it/your rational thought is.

"You" is used in the general sense, I'm not directing this at anybody in particular

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: tsquad]
    #7857145 -

People have every reason to believe in God

If that's so, they also have every reason to believe in the Tooth Fairy. :shrug:

The net sum of evidence supporting the existence of God is exactly the same as the evidence supporting the existence of the Tooth Fairy. Specifically: ZERO EVIDENCE.

believing in any religion is as baseless as not believing in any religion

Direct answer, please:

Is believing in the Tooth Fairy as baseless as not believing in the Tooth Fairy?

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Diploid]
    #7857195 -

Well the tooth fairy has only "been around" for about a hundred years and has no affiliation with anything other than teeth.


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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: learningtofly]
    #7857216 -

Alright. If longevity is a good metric for validity, then is believing in Santa Claus as baseless as not believing in Santa Clause? He's been around since what, about 300 A.D.?


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Diploid]
    #7857226 -

There is far more evidence for some sort of intelligence underlying reality than for santa or the tooth fairy.

Many geneticists and physicists have become theists after realizing the sheer perfection and precision of "mother nature".

Thinking that the universe and life just assembled itself blindly through trial and error is like thinking a tornado could assemble a jumbo jet by tearing through a junkyard.

Maybe on a nearly infinite timescale but not over a mere 13.7 Billion years...

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Middleman]
    #7857251 -

Quote:
Thinking that the universe and life just assembled itself blindly through trial and error is like thinking a tornado could assemble a jumbo jet by tearing through a junkyard.


Creationist parroting showing a complete misuderstanding of probability and evolutionary process.

Good job! Polly want a cracker?


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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Diploid]
    #7857254 -

"Are believing in the Tooth Fairy as baseless as not believing in the Tooth Fairy?"

No. There is evidence that says the Tooth Fairy does not exist: your parents put money under the pillow and take the tooth.


If we really want to get theoretical, though, the parent taking the tooth is just the rational interpretation of the stimulus received and processed by the brain. Essentially, again what I said before, the rational mind is baseless, and we really cannot know what is Actual. I guess what I'm saying is that saying anything with any conviction is an illusion, because we are told what to think by sensory input decoded by chemicals and such. JMO

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Middleman]
    #7857263 -

Quote:
Middleman said:Thinking that the universe and life just assembled itself blindly through trial and error is like thinking a tornado could assemble a jumbo jet by tearing through a junkyard.


It can.

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7857275 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Thinking that the universe and life just assembled itself blindly through trial and error is like thinking a tornado could assemble a jumbo jet by tearing through a junkyard.


Creationist parroting showing a complete misuderstanding of probability and evolutionary process.

Good job! Polly want a cracker?


FTR, I'm not a creationist, but it's you materialists that do not understand probability.

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Middleman]
    #7857286 -

Thinking that the universe and life just assembled itself blindly through trial and error is like thinking a tornado could assemble a jumbo jet by tearing through a junkyard.

Wow. I rarely see such absolute and complete utter ignorance of natural evolutionary processes even among Bible Belters and Tennessee public school officials.

You REALLY need to read a little man. Really!

I think the last time I saw such magnitude of ignorance was when I visited the Creation Museum web site. They use your same argument, you know. :thumbdown:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Diploid]
    #7857298 -

I was referring to astrophysics more than evolution...

Comments like "Polly want a cracker?" and "You really need to read a little man." say more about your characters than mine.

I am, and was parroting, an interventionist, not a creationist, btw.

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Middleman]
    #7857348 -

If you don't want to be treated like a parrot then don't act like one. A brain is more than a recording device.


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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: daytripper23]
    #7857351 -

Nice topic!

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Middleman]
    #7857438 -

There is far more evidence for some sort of intelligence underlying reality than for santa or the tooth fairy.

For example?


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7857698 -

Quote:
Belief without evidence is mental illness


Quote:
Belief without evidence is assumption



There I fixed that for you.


Quote:
Future respondent: Jeez, OG are you going to be all egotistical and tell us you hold no unsupported beliefs?

OG: Perhaps, I do. Point it/them out and I will examine it/them critically and dispassionately.



Produce one rocksolid fact of absolute truth. A truth which cannot be put in question by applying logic.


Chances are you cannot. As I see it, there are no absolute truths that are known to us to be 100% correct and indisputable.

So, all there is is belief, and it boils down only to which beliefs system you adhere to and how consistently and adeptly you can adhere to it.

By your definition, we are all mentally ill. I prefer to look at it that we hold assumptions.

I have freed myself from the notion that I can have absolute certainties that anything I believe in is the rocksolid absolute truth. You however seem still ensnared by the delusion of knowing the absolute truth. Free yourself, before you hurt yourself or others with this kind of radical thought.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Asante]
    #7858301 -


I have freed myself from the notion that I can have absolute certainties that anything I believe in is the rocksolid absolute truth. You however seem still ensnared by the delusion of knowing the absolute truth. Free yourself, before you hurt yourself or others with this kind of radical thought.


While I agree with you I don't think that is being said here. What is being done is applying logic and evidence and compiling a reasonable best guess. While having faith may have some positive application in certain circumstances, IMO, it's a lousy and dangerous (often to others) way to run a life.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Belief without evidence is mental illness [Re: Icelander]
    #7860044 -

Even if it's extremely unlikely that the universe just created life there is still the possibility, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, just the same as there is the possibility that "something else" created it. No matter how ridiculous or off-chance it may seem, there is still a possibility. Fuck we need a time machine to go back and figure this shit out.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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