Home | Community | Message Board


Reliable Spores
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Inner Eye
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?!
    #3095768 - 09/05/04 07:12 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Feeling like something is watching you

Talking to yourself and imaginary beings or people. "Praying."

Feeling like you have a special purpose

Feeling like inanimate objects have special purposes

Certain things appearing as signs, or that they are talking to them, or are symbolic to some higher cause.

Beliving you are going to die for doing something "bad"

Feeling like you are dirty for doing something, and that you will suffer for eternity if you do not talk to yourself or to this "god"....

I have nothing against beliving in God, but you can sort of draw some paralels to Neurosis or Schizofrenic behaviour. Just forget about all the religious history and stuff, and just watch the person behave and you can actually start to see some matches.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelovelight
float

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 368
Loc: yellow submarine
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3095794 - 09/05/04 07:26 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well i think you are closer to the truth than you realise. See

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...t=1#Post3094344

This post is about religious belief being a physical function of humankind. Scientists say its likely most people with Temporal Lobe epilepsy have a heightened sense of spirituality etc. but few are very severe and have strong mystical experiences.

A friend of mine used to say that there are plenty of Jesus Christs running around still today, it's just that now we can diognose them.

I don't know though, you can never really know what a person experiences or sees so you can never really judge its validity.


--------------------
Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: lovelight]
    #3095830 - 09/05/04 07:38 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

maybe not, but the similarities are eerie. Scary how often genius and insane cross boundaries


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelovelight
float

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 368
Loc: yellow submarine
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: jux]
    #3095877 - 09/05/04 07:52 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah that's true too! Look at the reputation artists have.
Like what's the first thing you think of when someone mentions Van Gough?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: lovelight]
    #3095914 - 09/05/04 08:09 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Sunflowers. After that, the ear of course. The Dutch are crazy, take my word for it.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelovelight
float

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 368
Loc: yellow submarine
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3095949 - 09/05/04 08:23 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

hahaha  :nut:


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3095987 - 09/05/04 08:36 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe schizophrenia is just a form of belief in God?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3096036 - 09/05/04 08:59 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think so, especially when accounts of the God experience are very similiar.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMAGnum
veteran

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Zahid]
    #3096073 - 09/05/04 09:14 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

When I saw God it was amazing. I understand that God is more than what Christians commonly think of it. This belief makes me a heretic of sorts, but I like herecy, it's freedom.


--------------------
Agent 727
7


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3097119 - 09/06/04 01:20 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Pretty funny, Northernsoul.  I never thought of it that way.  hehe.

:grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3100648 - 09/06/04 10:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry about the error of your theory, but I 'walk with GOD' and I am preeminently sane. In fact, as a state licensed, and Nationallly Board Certified Clinical Mental Health Counselor, my assessment will be recognized next July in Florida as an authority to 'Baker Act' an individual, which means, to have an individual involuntarily hospitalized for observation, if I deem them dangerous to self or others. Scary? No, not if you trust my sanity.

I can say that I "believe in GOD," and I can wax mystical and gnostic and say that "I Know GOD," but I do not cross the line and say "I Am GOD." THAT is an ego that is being flooded with Archetypal unconscious contents, and which one has identified one's ego with the Archetypal Self - the GOD Archetype. It is delusions of grandeur, paranoia, psychosis. The book 'The Three Christs of Ypsilanti' is about three such psychotics with Christ delusions, all put together in a state hospital. They begin to expand their delusions competatively: 'Well, I'm also the Holy Spirit.' 'Oh yeah, well I'm GOD the Father!' Very entertaining, but very very different from the genuine mystics and prophets who ARE aware of of GOD in varying degrees. Perhaps you should read the 19th century classic 'Cosmic Consciousness' by R.M. Bucke to get a better understanding.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3100716 - 09/06/04 10:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

How is it egotistical to say "I am God"? If God is infinite, then there can't be anything that isn't God, or is separate or outside of God.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: silversoul7]
    #3100791 - 09/06/04 10:56 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

This reminds me of a story told through al-Junayd about Hussein ibn Mansur al Hallaj. The story was about al-Hallaj when he said, "I am Allah (God)" and the notorious Pharoah who also said "I am Allah". Junayd said that there was a difference between what Hallaj had proclaimed and what the Pharoah proclaimed. Junayd said that when the Pharoah said "I am Allah" there was no absent of the self to be filled with Allah, the mind did not become silent because the Pharoah was arrogant and unaware how to empy himself. Junayd said, "The Pharoah was lying," a young Murid asked him, "But how can the colorful seeker (Hallaj) say the same thing as the Pharoah?" Junayd replied, "When Hallaj said he was Allah, there was no self awareness in Hallaj, there was only awareness of Allah. Hallaj had emptied himself of his identity which allowed Allah to take that place." It was here, that Hallaj had said, "I am God" (he would later be executed for saying 'I am the Truth' in a more public setting).

For my own comment, when the Pharoah said "I am God" the Pharoah was lying because he did not disregard his own ego, instead only inflated it further more. When Hallaj said it, it was as if God himself said it through Hallaj because Hallaj the person became absent. The lie of Hallaj's ego had to become absent in order for Allah's unseen to manifest. When Allah's spirit became manifest, while Hallaj still maintained motor skills, from head to toe Hallaj was the walking spirit of Allah in a fleshly trap.

"I am God" can be an ecstatic panentheistical expression of unity with the Divine, or it can be complete and utter arrogance in the case of the Pharoah. The difference is whether the false self/ego is present or not. The unseen of God does not manifest itself to those who only acknowledge theirselves.

peace/salam/shalom


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinerdnp2035
Stranger

Registered: 03/08/04
Posts: 408
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3101213 - 09/07/04 12:20 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

This is someone's quote, "Schizophrenia is the nature of existance."
How else can it be? If any of this is real, then it comes from a source, which was at some point a single thing. The big bang split the whole into a trillion pieces. And here the bunch of us are talking about the seperation between us. But, we all come from the same stuff, and we share 99% of our genetic material that built us into thinking beings. So, if we are the same but also seperate, I think this points to the idea the schizophrenia is somehow deeply engrained into the cosmos. Know what I mean?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinesnowy
Stranger
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 8
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3101461 - 09/07/04 01:15 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

'The Power of Now'
by
Ekhart Toll (sp?)

apparently "God", spirituality, or whatever is is in YOU. Makes sense and is very entertaining. Give it a read if you haven't

The Question of God
by?
sorry, don't have the book close at hand

THis is another great book. different than the last, not so instructional. It gives some great perspectives on the matter of the existance of god through the writings and lives of Sigmund Freud and C.S Lewis; two of the Western worlds greatest thinkers on the subject. Freud a devout atheist and Lewis an athiest gone to god (at the age of 30). Deffinitely a good read

At any rate, no one knows for sure if god exists or doesn't...it's just that simple. I think that one of the most important things to consider when forming an oppinion or taking a side is the other side. I've noticed that a lot of my peer group and perhaps others tend to be very misinformed about the antithesis of their beliefs.I'm sure you've (Northernsoul) offended a lot of people by equating a belief in god with schizophrenia...but anythings possible, you could be right :-)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3101659 - 09/07/04 02:16 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I wish there was a God, or at least some kind of humane, comforting and anthropromorphic figure behind all of it. I left Christianity because I wanted to find God for real, in a way I could actually experience. All I have seen are empty grinding gears. It depresses me.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3101843 - 09/07/04 03:09 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Just believe, and you will find comfort when the great ego lesson (life) comes to an end.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Inner Eye
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: rdnp2035]
    #3105360 - 09/07/04 09:55 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Shit, some people dont even belive in Evolution. They think that all the science behind evolution was planted by someone, or fake. Go figure.

But these same people who call scientists crazy are just as crazy themselves from many perspectives. And one could be that they are crazy because they talk to thier own hand "prey"...and chant to imaginary beings....


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone




Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3105557 - 09/07/04 10:32 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The main argument against evolution is that it is biologically impossible.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Zahid]
    #3105576 - 09/07/04 10:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
The main argument against evolution is that it is biologically impossible.



Only if you are ignorant of biology.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: silversoul7]
    #3105652 - 09/07/04 10:48 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

If you say so.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMetatrad
newbie

Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 147
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Zahid]
    #3105693 - 09/07/04 10:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Does this refuting of evolution happen to involve the giraffe as an example? If so, I've heard it before.

So, what's so hard to believe about particular genetic variations/mutations of a species being better for survival, hence living long enough to procreate?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Metatrad]
    #3105769 - 09/07/04 11:11 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I couldn't really recall, but I have read some fairly well composed books (Such as 'The Evolution Deceit' by Harun Yahya) and articles that refuted Evolution using biology and science to its advantage. I am not a scientist, thought.

I am however an Evolutionist and a Creationist - I believe evolution was instrumented by God, and only in the last few 10,000 years the interesting result of this gradual growth has reached its viewing point.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OnlineOOISI
Suburbanaut
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 1,898
Loc: SA
Last seen: 2 minutes, 1 second
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Zahid]
    #3107246 - 09/08/04 07:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

first of all, just say insane instead of "schizo"
and second of all beleiving in god a form of scizophrenia ask yourself is beleif in insanity or "schizophrenia" a form of paranoia?

also maybe not beleiving in god is a sign of weakness, insecurity maybe?
let me elborate, the thought of a "higher entity causing us, being our mentor, something we cant understand, we choose not to accept it maybe cause we fear maybe cause were insecure, who knows.
Im probably schizo cause i beleive in GOD.

p.s. zahid im not replying to you but northern soul


--------------------
Subaeruginosa Guide


Edited by OOISI (09/08/04 07:38 AM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 5 months, 30 days
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: OOISI]
    #3107274 - 09/08/04 08:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

> first of all, just say insane instead of "schizo" and second of all beleiving in god a form of scizophrenia

Back up a bit more... what is the definition of insane? How do doctors define what is insane and what is not. Once you understand the definitions, you will see that the original question no longer makes sense.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAsanteA
low dose - high adventure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 74,353
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3107323 - 09/08/04 09:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Now let's not shout "schizophrenia" before we establish for the readers  what Schizophrenia is. 


Quote:

DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA for SCHIZOPHRENIA (American Definition)
.
Diagnostic Criteria
.
.
Characteristic symptoms: Two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):
delusions
hallucinations
disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition
Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.
.
Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).
Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal or residual symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g., odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).
.
Schizoaffective and Mood Disorder exclusion: Schizoaffective Disorder and Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features have been ruled out because either (1) no Major Depressive, Manic, or Mixed Episodes have occurred concurrently with the active-phase symptoms; or (2) if mood episodes have occurred during active-phase symptoms, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the active and residual periods.
.
Substance/general medical condition exclusion: The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.
.
Relationship to a Pervasive Developmental Disorder: If there is a history of Autistic Disorder or another Pervasive Developmental Disorder, the additional diagnosis of Schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations are also present for at least a month (or less if successfully treated).


---------------------------------------------------------------------
.
Diagnostic Criteria of Schizophrenia Subtypes
Paranoid Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:
.
Preoccupation with one or more delusions or frequent auditory hallucinations.
None of the following is prominent: disorganized speech, disorganized or catatonic behavior, or flat or inappropriate affect.
..Catatonic Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the clinical picture is dominated by at least two of the following:
.
motoric immobility as evidenced by catalepsy (including waxy flexibility) or stupor
excessive motor activity (that is apparently purposeless and not influenced by external stimuli)
extreme negativism (an apparently motiveless resistance to all instructions or maintenance of a rigid posture against attempts to be moved) or mutism
peculiarities of voluntary movement as evidenced by posturing (voluntary assumption of inappropriate or bizarre postures), stereotyped movements, prominent mannerisms, or prominent grimacing
echolalia or echopraxia
..Disorganized Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:
.
All of the following are prominent:
disorganized speech
disorganized behavior
flat or inappropriate affect
The criteria are not met for Catatonic Type.
.
..Undifferentiated Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which symptoms that meet Criterion A are present, but the criteria are not met for the Paranoid, Disorganized, or Catatonic Type.
.
Residual Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:
.
Absence of prominent delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech, and grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior.
There is continuing evidence of the disturbance, as indicated by the presence of negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A for Schizophrenia, present in an attenuated form (e.g., odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Differential Diagnosis
Psychotic Disorder Due to a General Medical Condition, delirium, or dementia; Substance-Induced Psychotic Disorder; Substance-Induced Delirium; Substance-Induced Persisting Dementia; Substance-Related Disorders; Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features; Schizoaffective Disorder; Depressive Disorder Not Otherwise Specified; Bipolar Disorder Not Otherwise Specified; Mood Disorder With Catatonic Features; Schizophreniform Disorder; Brief Psychotic Disorder; Delusional Disorder; Psychotic Disorder Not Otherwise Specified; Pervasive Developmental Disorders (e.g., Autistic Disorder); childhood presentations combining disorganized speech (from a Communication Disorder) and disorganized behavior (from Attention-Deficit/ Hyperactivity Disorder); Schizotypal Personality Disorder; Schizoid Personality Disorder; Paranoid Personality Disorder.





If you, the reader, have read this carefully and basically read the story of your life & hardships or feel worried this might pertain to you by all means I urge you to get a psychologic evaluation to see if you not qualify for medical treatment.
If people are caught by psychological screening with only latent, residual psychosis or they are identified between psychoses usually a low, minimally unpleasant or even pleasant dosage of specific pharms may prevent future episodes from occurring at all.

I myself am on low-dose haldol (2mg = 100mg chlorpromazine as to psychotic efficiency) because i basically am excitement, being a chronic maniac (most of the time I am lightly manic, let's call it "euphoric derangement" :grin:)
For me after years with & without it causes no real side-effects but it rather it helps me to have conversations without coming across like a  crazed squirrel on crack.

But the bottom line is that religion is compared with mental illness. Medically an illness is "something biological/pychological that strays from the average norm in a way that is percieved as detrimental by the affected and/or those around them".
Since the USSR (like the USSA today) repressed people by abusing this principle (Politicopath :shocked:Capitalist Personality Disorder :shocked:) you should apply common sense and get apolitical with definitions.
I could declare somebody's red nose (or homosexuality) as adverse to my happiness but thats just bullshit political reasoning.

So let's look at your list from another side:



Feeling like something is watching you ---> or benevolently watching OVER you in perfect love and perfect trust.

Talking to yourself and imaginary beings or people. "Praying." ---> reinforcing your beliefs in the Greater Good and that you can be better then you are and that there is hope by externalizing thought processes.

Feeling like you have a special purpose ---> striving to achieve a goal you think will make the world a better place

Feeling like inanimate objects have special purposes ---> recognising and perhaps enhancing the value of objects, increasing your appreciation of the Any & All

Certain things appearing as signs, or that they are talking to them, or are symbolic to some higher cause. ---> LSD

Beliving you are going to die for doing something "bad" ---> dogma very specific to some religions but not others.

Feeling like you are dirty for doing something, and that you will suffer for eternity if you do not talk to yourself or to this "god"... ---> dogma very specific to some religions but not others.


Basically it is a double-edged sword: you can reinforce the good or the bad in people with Religion.

I hate to say it but basically Religion, like LSD, is a neutral entity: it can be detrimental or uplifting, deliberate or unintentional.

Visonaries in a way could be argued to be schizophrenic, but because they derive and yield benefit rather then detrimental chaos it is not a mental illness even though the core symptoms may overlap.

Have you ever had such vivid hallucinations that they completely replaced concensus reality, with voices speaking, past and future merging wit flights of fancy, being fully delivered into the maw of an insane logic where fantasy and reality are the same, a delirium followed by near-complete amnesia?
And would you voluntarily yield to this madness?

Yes. It is called Dreaming and we do it most nights of our life. We -all- are visionaries at heart. The alarmclock makes you arise briefly from your fullblown delirium.
You slap the "snooze" button.
You're out, and you're gone.
When it buzzes again, nine minutes later earthtime, you have spent hours of Dreamtime riding a wild pineapple, hunting and shooting your own oats & raisins for your early morning muesli in fullblown Delirium. Now that is HEALTHY.

If you get an overlap of waking consiousness into dreams it is called "lucid dreaming".

If your "dream machine" starts to run by itself in daytime the result is chaos, and from that chaos you either emerge victorious (Visionary) or you crumble, and the latter is called a psychotic break.

New neurobiological data I've seen shows there is an overlap in mechanism in Dreams, Delirium and Psychosis and thus I believe that the core nature of psychosis is a disturbance in the brain's ability to regulate waking and dreaming conscious brainstates.
Sane by day/Psychotic by night :evil: is the norm.


So bottom line is that Religion can either add to or alleviate mental illness to some extent.
Its not important whether we are dealing with the GOD Hardware Co. or with GOD.exe its important that the 75% of people on this good Earth who are religious constitute the norm and by that norm atheism is the deviation.

Is atheism a form of spiritual dementia? :evil:
F*ck no! Its just ATHEISM.exe like we have RELIGION.exe and i hope we'll find out whether the Universe Server is owned or just exists. :heart:


--------------------
CDC  COVID  SELF-CHECKER  :syringe:  COVID  MAIN  THREAD  #2
Get 1 month's supplies in case of illness or calamity and help loved ones.
Strengthen your friendship ties - and exchange more favors and advice !

OMNICYCLIC YOU  SUPPORT TICKETS  STORE  SPONSORS/VENDORS  AMANI

personal Ethereum gifts w/o strings attached are very welcome at:
0x9e107aC7656A4b2Fc295Ef5157f06B8E313D7aFa    Ethereum?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFecalDildo
Fat LadiesBingo.
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 9,645
Loc: Ass Flavour Pie Factory.
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: silversoul7]
    #3131143 - 09/13/04 09:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

funny you mention this because i see no difference between so called psychotic episodes and religious beliefs.. but you see i dont believe in schizophrenia. schizophrenia is mearly a label psychiatrists give someone who falls under specific diagnositc criteria. Western psychology has such a limited understanding of psychotic individuals that we lock them away and label them as dangers. I consider psychosis as a gift.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3131207 - 09/13/04 09:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I can say that I "believe in GOD," and I can wax mystical and gnostic and say that "I Know GOD," but I do not cross the line and say "I Am GOD."




Quote:

How is it egotistical to say "I am God"? If God is infinite, then there can't be anything that isn't God, or is separate or outside of God.




--------------When you don't have anything to say, what's better than say nothing at all eh? Markos... I doubt the gnostic part. I also think that you are one of many people who were taught in school how to make their minds to have a tendency to schizophrenia...that is..undoubtedly believe in the existence of god and be so sure that you know you're right. ------------------


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Shroomerious]
    #3131723 - 09/13/04 10:59 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, well, given your accusatory and apparently paranoid tone, I still come out as having more psychological equipoise in this thread than you do. After all, how can 'you' doubt 'my' tag as "Gnostic?" That is doubting an identity that belongs to 'me,' not you. I live my live as a Gnostic, NOT as an Agnostic, which essentially affirms that I Know GOD in some capacity. This is not special, but it seems special to you, which is what you are objecting to. You think that I am making an extravagant claim, which I am not. I simply have a conscious relationship with GOD - I am conscious of the Presence of GOD in my moment-to-moment life (some moments more than others of course). Schizophrenic I am not.

Perhaps I should add that I am qualified to diagnose and treat mental illnesses psychotherapeutically, and have so with schizophrenic individuals in both individual and group modalities as far back as 1985.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/14/04 07:36 AM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAsanteA
low dose - high adventure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 74,353
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 5 hours, 56 minutes
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Asante]
    #3133151 - 09/14/04 05:42 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Will everybody please remember "schizophrenic" is a cluster of medical conditions with rather precise diagnostic criteria?

If anyone means "crazy" just say "crazy".
You don't say "I have a fibrous neocortical tumor" when you mean to say "I got a headache".
Fullblown schizophrenia is a tragic disease in the same social stigma-ballpark as leprosy and it has devastated the happiness af many families.

Since one in ten has an uncle or aunt, parent or have got schizophrenia themselves lets not throw that word around like a water-balloon in a kids game.


--------------------
CDC  COVID  SELF-CHECKER  :syringe:  COVID  MAIN  THREAD  #2
Get 1 month's supplies in case of illness or calamity and help loved ones.
Strengthen your friendship ties - and exchange more favors and advice !

OMNICYCLIC YOU  SUPPORT TICKETS  STORE  SPONSORS/VENDORS  AMANI

personal Ethereum gifts w/o strings attached are very welcome at:
0x9e107aC7656A4b2Fc295Ef5157f06B8E313D7aFa    Ethereum?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,876
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 18 days
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Asante]
    #3133280 - 09/14/04 07:26 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

How come you end up at a mental house if you have a invisible non-existant friend unless you call it God?


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3133513 - 09/14/04 10:50 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yes, well, given your accusatory and apparently paranoid tone, I still come out as having more psychological equipoise in this thread than you do. After all, how can 'you' doubt 'my' tag as "Gnostic?" That is doubting an identity that belongs to 'me,' not you. I live my live as a Gnostic, NOT as an Agnostic, which essentially affirms that I Know GOD in some capacity. This is not special, but it seems special to you, which is what you are objecting to. You think that I am making an extravagant claim, which I am not. I simply have a conscious relationship with GOD - I am conscious of the Presence of GOD in my moment-to-moment life (some moments more than others of course). Schizophrenic I am not.

Perhaps I should add that I am qualified to diagnose and treat mental illnesses psychotherapeutically, and have so with schizophrenic individuals in both individual and group modalities as far back as 1985.




More psychological equipoise than me? I don't think so. And by that do you mean the equipoise forced to you by childhood "innocent" lies?

You know God in some capacity? And you are so sure of it. PROVE IT. If you can't do that then don't say know, say "speculate". And untill you prove it you are not a Gnostic but a Gnostic wannabe or are having or being induced to Gnostic kinds of halucinations.

The fact that maybe you have a qualification has nothing to do with this. What makes you think that you know everything since you have a qualification? Ffs, all our life is a form of schizophrenia and if you can't get that then I'm sorry.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehalfoz
Stranger
Registered: 09/14/04
Posts: 7
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: silversoul7]
    #3135121 - 09/14/04 05:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have a strong background in biology, actually I majored in it, and the thing that still stumps me, is that it all supposedly started with the big bang, which is only a theory, right? OK. Everything is made up of protons & electrons. Just like the huge mass that exploded, it was made up of the same. Where did the first Protons/Electrons come from? Most scientists would argue from energy. But where did the energy come from? :confused:


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBlueOrb
prototype
Registered: 09/14/04
Posts: 217
Loc: The fourth dimension
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: halfoz]
    #3135158 - 09/14/04 06:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It come from nothing....that is no thing....In the absence of that which is not, that that is, is not. The some-thing came from the no- thing...


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehalfoz
Stranger
Registered: 09/14/04
Posts: 7
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3135196 - 09/14/04 06:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Good to see that YOU see where I'm coming from because SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NO-THING


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Shroomerious]
    #3135248 - 09/14/04 06:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'm sorry also...sorry for you that life seems "schizophrenic" although your usage of the term with regard to life is a wrong usage, unless you are speaking for your own possible condition.

You have no idea what the term Gnostic means either classically or in my own application. The species of Knowing that the word Gnosis means, is not Episteme, not the knowing of empirical data. One does not "prove" Gnosis to another any more than one proves Faith to another. One's entire Way and walk of life becomes testimony to the inner life that motivates one. It is not about discourse or speculation, it is about what kind of person one is - how coherently, or consistently one manifests the inner life in the outer world. I am not subject to hallucinations (visions at times during self-induced non-ordinary states) or delusions.

Knowing, as opposed to not knowing does not make one a 'know-it-all.' "Wannabe" ? How old are we now? I don't know what kind of "lies" were foisted upon YOU as a child, but I grew up in a very permissive household where I was free to do all kinds of exploration and experimentation - scientifically and socially. I have long explored my childhood through self-analysis taught to me by 8 years of professional Jungian analysis and I am pretty much free of childhood neuroses of parental cause.

As to psychological equipoise in this thread, I am not communicating angry or accusatory tones; neither am I making assumptions about your childhood for which I have absolutely no information. You are making a transference to me which I am simply not interested in taking on. I'm not certain exactly what complex you are attempting to put on me, but I'm not going to do analysis with you here.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,876
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 18 days
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: halfoz]
    #3135476 - 09/14/04 07:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

halfoz said:
Good to see that YOU see where I'm coming from because SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NO-THING



how bout: SOMETHING IS NO-THING, and No-Thing is Something?
that would explain why you got something from nothing? as the both are the result of each other? eternity is a fun subject. why did it have to start? if you got a stamp, whit a circel. and stamped a circel on a piece of paper, where would the circle start and end? and why does it have to? if it does :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeff
mysticlove
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,146
Loc: clarity Flag
Last seen: 58 minutes, 30 seconds
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Gomp]
    #3135549 - 09/14/04 07:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Nothing is a concept created by us (something).

or

Something is a concept created by us (nothing).


--------------------



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3135749 - 09/14/04 08:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I said that life as it is perceived is "schizophrenic" and you are one of those people that rush to answer stupidly, totally stupidly with the definition of the term and certainly with facts such us that you are qualified and shit. That is what I meant. Think before you answer. You are stuck in the loop that you are finally a gnosti and you are having a great time with it. I like that and it's fine by me but it is only one of the infinite possibilities of what the objective "truth", if it exists, is.


So is that it? You wanna speak with funky greek words that you are sure I have no idea what they mean? Ok. Gia na exei kapios gnosi den mporei para na exei apodeikseis. Oi apodeikseis einai ayto pou xreiazetai oxi aytes oi paparies pou mou grafeis. Oh I'm sorry if you didn't understand that but I'm sure that if I combined that with some english words it would really really seem that I know what I'm talking about. Gnosis is a pretty straight word. And it means knowledge. You can't have solid knowledge if you don't have Apodiksi, proof for it.

And delusions is what I meant.


Marko, you can continue living in your little lie if it makes you happy I don't care. Oh, so in school, they didn't teach you about religion is that what you're saying? I never mentioned how your family brought you up and I don't care about the information.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Shroomerious]
    #3136065 - 09/14/04 09:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Perhaps the intention of expressing yourself such that everyone can think "that's Greek to me" makes YOU feel superior. Meanwhile, you and I are not communicating, and while it is not true that my reponse is "stupid," your response is revealing of your own disturbance. As I said, I am not here to address your 'issues,' I'm here recreationally to discuss ideas. I hope things improve for you. Adios.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeff
mysticlove
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,146
Loc: clarity Flag
Last seen: 58 minutes, 30 seconds
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3136077 - 09/14/04 09:38 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

We are all omnipotent and gnostic, we just forgot :smile:

To completely remember, one would no longer exist as an entity outside of the whole


--------------------



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3136534 - 09/14/04 11:14 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Perhaps the intention of expressing yourself such that everyone can think "that's Greek to me" makes YOU feel superior. Meanwhile, you and I are not communicating, and while it is not true that my reponse is "stupid," your response is revealing of your own disturbance. As I said, I am not here to address your 'issues,' I'm here recreationally to discuss ideas. I hope things improve for you. Adios.




I think you understood what I said very well. No I don't feel the list bit superior and the only reason that I wrote that is because you first said that you doubt I know the meaning of the word. It isn't me who feel superior. Nor do I put tags on people even myself, gnostic...Disturbance? But ofcourse I'm disturbed. You are breaking my balls because not only my first post was not commented by you but furthermore you went to start a race of who and what to prove yourself and every time I said something you always had these stupid answers like a 10 year old. And you are not here to discuss ideas you fuck because if you were you would have answered my first post and any of this would never had to happen. I am sure that the people who read all these understand. Adios amigo.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Shroomerious]
    #3137762 - 09/15/04 07:24 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo doo."


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3137856 - 09/15/04 08:44 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

That answer just confirmed everything I said. Thank you for that, you made it a lot easier.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZen Peddler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3146721 - 09/17/04 02:58 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

they alos beleive that temporal lobe epilepsy provides sufferers with an experience quite similar to what you might call a 'mystic' experience.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTheArtist
Truth Seeker


Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 41
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Northernsoul]
    #10938832 - 08/26/09 02:20 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I love the implications this thread has. The first post, I seriously love it. Seldom do you see people bring this up. I think one of the reasons for that is because so many would hate to have their quite possibly psychotic delusions of mind-easing religion challenged, by thinker-inspired and questioning thoughts like this.

Threadstarter, we're on the same page.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: TheArtist]
    #10941061 - 08/26/09 01:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting thread bump.  But there actually is a good answer to this, and that is that schizophrenics have a great deal of trouble adjusting to society and will sometimes have psychotic fits.  People who have mystical experiences, on the other hand, tend to be more well-adjusted afterward.  So whatever the legitimacy of the things they experience, it most certainly is not a pathology.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: Belief in God: A form of schizophrenia?! [Re: Silversoul]
    #10941090 - 08/26/09 02:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

People who have mystical experiences, on the other hand, tend to be more well-adjusted afterward.




And you base this upon what?


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Does God Exist? part one
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
MentalHygene 14,535 126 02/22/02 10:26 PM
by ArCh_TemPlaR
* what is god?
( 1 2 3 all )
Anonymous 3,134 59 05/06/03 03:36 AM
by World Spirit
* God Thinks Gay People Are An Abomination
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
KingOftheThing 8,467 187 09/26/04 06:25 AM
by Diploid
* God as white light?
( 1 2 all )
tekramrepus 2,575 23 10/22/03 05:08 PM
by Anonymous
* "Gods loves us".....but why?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
MOTH 5,657 111 11/21/04 10:20 PM
by ld50negative1
* if you believe in god
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
2Experimental 4,506 80 08/03/04 08:56 PM
by HerbanShaman
* Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
lucid 8,240 74 09/25/03 07:08 PM
by ska8ball
* Religion and God
( 1 2 3 all )
RandalFlagg
3,365 40 09/19/03 03:49 PM
by Clover

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
6,188 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Sporeworks
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 13 queries.