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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Belief revisited...
    #1027014 - 11/06/02 05:39 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

For once I would LOVE to get an actual STRAIGHT answer which seems impossible. If there is no direct evidence for your pet belief, i.e. it requires faith, whether it be a particular religion or mystical thoughts; then why would you choose A over B?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027022 - 11/06/02 05:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Deaf and dumb and blind and born to follow.

Sums up a large portion of humanity..


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027028 - 11/06/02 05:44 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Why choose chocolate over vanilla?
Personal preferance?
Past experience?
A combination of the two?

I choose the most logical, based on my experiences and perception of reality. If something comes along that offers a different perspective, with good reasoning behind it, I will change my belief accordingly. In other words, show me that there is no God, and I will stop believing in God.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Shroomism]
    #1027032 - 11/06/02 05:47 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

How can we erase your memory of a delusion?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1027036 - 11/06/02 05:49 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Prove to me I imagined it all.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Shroomism]
    #1027043 - 11/06/02 05:52 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What is real and what is a delusion is in the eye of the beholder.


.......just like the defination of real.  :tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Murex]
    #1027054 - 11/06/02 05:58 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Shroomism: Prove to me I imagined it all.

How'd I get stuck with the burden of proof here?
Whatever... Murex answers better...

Murex: What is real and what is a delusion is in the eye of the beholder.

Right... but a rock I throw at you is going to hurt just like it will if you threw it at me (if you're as good of a pitcher as I am... hehehe). So, if we have ANY common ground, there is a way of determining "what is real and what is a delusion". Now we just argue about that way.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Shroomism]
    #1027060 - 11/06/02 05:59 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Why choose chocolate over vanilla?

I may have phrased my question poorly. Let's try again. If I cannot confirm that that are zero chakras, seven chakras, or infinite chakras, why should one choose to believe in any amount?

If I cannot confirm that either Mohammed or Jesus was divine (not merely a great philosopher / teacher) why should I choose either as an entity to pray to?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1027066 - 11/06/02 06:02 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Right... but a rock I throw at you is going to hurt just like it will if you threw it at me...

Changing from "hit" to "throw" is not sufficient. I still get a royalty for the Swami ROTBOTHC.


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (11/06/02 06:10 AM)


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027080 - 11/06/02 06:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Sclorch, is that Swami's Avatar behind yours? I swear it is. I can see something after your avatar moves to the left.



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleRevelation

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Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1027122 - 11/06/02 07:18 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Right... but a rock I throw at you is going to hurt just like it will if you threw it at me

Yes. But, maybe if you threw it at a buddhist monk (or something) who was deep in meditation, he would perhaps not feel any pain? The rock would still have been thrown though, I guess.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027171 - 11/06/02 07:53 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Is seeing believing?

Or

Is believing seeing?


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027177 - 11/06/02 07:58 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I believe in degrees i.e ufos exist 60%.


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1027178 - 11/06/02 07:59 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

not the bloody rock again! :grin: 


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027179 - 11/06/02 08:00 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

what you mean you are a 2000 year old buddhist monk who first came up with that? woooaaaahhh man far out!


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineMetasyn
one

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 236
Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027313 - 11/06/02 09:43 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I see it as a question of living happily. There is no way of knowing for sure how many chakras there are if any at all, but believing in it gives me a lot of joy and pleasure. When I meditate I feel my chakras open up and it is quite a wonderful feeling. Maybe its an artifact of my delusion, but who cares? This search for absolute truth and veracity isn't going to arrive at happiness, only more futile searching. So I say embrace concepts that make you feel good and alive, for that's what living is all about. For you such a concept might be rationalism, and that's fine. To each his own. But let each person chose their own beliefs.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Metasyn]
    #1027413 - 11/06/02 10:45 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

So I say embrace concepts that make you feel good and alive...
The religion that I was raised in, Catholicism, makes people feel guilty yet millions follow it.

But let each person chose their own beliefs.
Sounds good in theory, but other's beliefs frequently affect my life adversely. Other than an occasional rant here, my beliefs have no negative effects on others.

Maybe its an artifact of my delusion, but who cares?
I do else I would not have started this post. Delusional beliefs can be incredibly harmful. Please don't make me whip out my laundry list yet again. The beliefs of Nevada voters, tell me that I will continue to risk prison for using MJ. The beliefs of US war hawks tell me that my tax dollars will be used to kill other people. Wonderful!

I meditated for 12 years and never once discovered or felt a chakra, never saw a blue light entering my head, never left my body nor touched the cosmic. Either I am incredibly dense or I refuse to delude myself into experiencing something that I read about in an Eastern mysticism book.

I will take a painful truth over a warm and fuzzy delusion any day.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027491 - 11/06/02 11:13 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe if you dont expect to see them you wont. Perhaps,You have to participate in reality and suspend those hard and fast beliefs every now and again. IMHO

Out of interest, what benefits did you gain from 12 years meditation?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027653 - 11/06/02 12:13 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The nature of belief is that is is just that *belief* it can't be proven. You won't believe something unless you want to or for some reason need to. Some beliefs are incredibly destructive. Ie: jehovahs witness- i have family involved in this religion and they are incredibly fearful, weak and judgemental. I never see them. It's torn the family apart, yet they follow and they believe... why? They need to. It is a support system. They are too afraid to question, to afraid to seek a kinder path.

On the other hand some beliefs are incredibly healing. Some beliefs give one a sense of hope, belonging, wellbeing, and direction. The main goal of my lifetime is to follow a path that will promote love, acceptance, beauty.... to hold beliefs that allow myself and those around me to grow as infinitly as we so chose. If I accomplish this, I accomplish all.

I care little of the discrepancies of details and the differences of words used to explain perception.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1027843 - 11/06/02 01:25 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Rather than choose A or B I try to accept both A and B and live somewhere (A+B)/2.

Actually, after a bit of pondering, I accept both A and B, but try living somewhere !(A U B)... U=union, !=not



--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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