Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 |  [ show all ]
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1038433 -

hehe... swami, you just can't win.  People get upset at what you say, and people get upset at what you don't say.  :smile:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1038445 -

just my opinion, but i think faith from religion is just a basic reassurance. People are attracted to the religion that appeals to them the most, and that makes them the happiest. Nothing wrong with that. Some faith is in the name of learning tho. Some people take it on themselves to discover the meaning of life, and that is faith of sorts. The kinda faith that you can place higher in one thing than an another is just holding on to dear life on the closest most comfortable thing you can find


--------------------
"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Seuss]
    #1038452 -

My very existence is upsetting - LOL! I am the Buddah come to push buttons to test where people are at.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1040458 -


In reply to:
Everything is a game... and a joke.
Though I may be the only one forever laughing.



nah, i'll be by your side laughing.. (at you) hehe

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1040502 -

I merely pointed out that he was a self-admitted ketamine junkie.

Utter bullshit. He was no such thing.

Read the interview with Lilly in Dreams and realities. Lilly doubts addiction as a concept and says "When i wanted to take K i took it, when i didn't i stopped".

"self-admitted ketamine junkie" - where do you get this shit from?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1040510 -

Utter bullshit. He was no such thing.

i seem to detect a GR8 deal of hostility and anger in your post(s)

Lilly doubts addiction as a concept

sounds like denial to me......just my opinion as i actually enjoyed reading Lilly's books.....

Lilly doubts addiction as a concept

revisited....try explaining that notion to a person who's just been shot of stabbed for a few dollars by a someone who's "not addicted' because addiction is only a "concept"

imo, that's like saying rape is only a concept......


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


Edited by FreakQlibrium (11/10/02 06:34 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1040516 -

Alex thinks that merely saying "Utter Bullshit!" somehow makes it so. This is the extent of his debating capabilities. When one has no argument, anger is the only answer.

He would have us believe that MAINLINING A SUBSTANCE CONSIDERED TO PHARMACOLOGICALLY ADDICTIVE EVERY DAY FOR MONTHS is not problematic, and is a generally accepted practice of a healthy, well-adjusted individual.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1040579 -

>Lilly doubts addiction as a concept and says "When i wanted to take K i took it, when i didn't i stopped".

As any sort of "proof" that he wasn't addicted, that statement means next to nothing. I don't buy into the concept of addiction in the way it's used a lot of the time these days, but there are some things ... One of the characteristics of "addiction," or any sort of dependance, is that it changes behaviour. The most obvious psychological way that this takes place is through reinforcement: Someone takes a drug for whatever reason--to experience something profound, for example. The user then has a profound experience because he has taken the drug, which happens to be exactly what he wanted, and knowing that the experience is "rewarding" and available, his future tendancies are altered and he is more likely to use it again. If it's a negative experience and he therefore doesn't repeat it, behaviour reinforcement has also taken place.

If the experience is percieved as really enjoyable, useful, or rewarding -as definately seems to be the case with Lilly- one is quite likely to either repeat it or experience a strong desire to repeat it. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when one starts heavily using a drug, it usually isn't a indication of a "good" thing. 

Anyway, considering that his behaviour was unavoidably changed by the psychological effects of the Ketamine (not to mention the physiological, which I have no clue about), his aforementioned statement can only back that he liked what he was doing. If a lab-rat could talk, it would most likely tell you that it was indulging in the test drug because it liked it, even as it consumed the rat's life.
On the other hand, if it told you that it was using the drug not because it wanted to, but because it kept having seizures without it, the rat would be physically addicted, the other aspect of addiction that I do put some stock in. I'm not sure how or if physical addiction applies to Ketamine.

Sorry about all this. I really enjoy thinking about this stuff sometimes, and I get going on a topic like this; I might not even be offering anything significant to the rest of you. :grin:
On top of that, I'm probably a message board junkie. lol


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Swami]
    #1040591 -

This is the extent of his debating capabilities. When one has no argument, anger is the only answer.

It isn't a debate. You made up "self-admitted" to make a point. It is a complete lie that exists only in your head. You are completly wrong and lying about it to boot. What is there to debate?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1040592 -

i seem to detect a GR8 deal of hostility and anger in your post(s)

No anger. Just passion for truth.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1040605 -

No anger. Just passion for truth.

Passion being defined as emotion in this case? i have persoanly never met anyone who could reason clearly when in any kind of emotional state.....perhaps your are an exception to this, i don't know :smirk: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1040610 -

The truth is the truth regardless of emotion.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1040614 -

It isn't a debate.

Hey, we finally agree; shouting and emotionalism is not debate.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1040618 -

The truth is the truth regardless of emotion.

the "truth" in this case being what Alex..... your own set of beliefs?*

*sounded a bit harsher than i had intended, yet the question itself still stands......


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


Edited by FreakQlibrium (11/10/02 09:21 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1041171 -

I am of ther particular belief that there is common basis of understanding in communications like these discussions, and that is emotion.
When you feel something you "know" it.
When more than one person "know" the same thing, it can be considered a truth.
Not the truth, but one of as many truths as there are people to believe them.

Edited by dee_N_ae (11/10/02 02:53 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1041183 -

I am of ther particular belief that there is common basis of understanding in communication and that is emotion.

Good post Dee, however the type of  EMOTION  that i was refering to specifically was the type that obfuscates(learned a new word today :wink: ) one's understanding and communicative abilities....ie: hostility, anger etc.....even if that particular emotion is cloaked under the guise of "having a passion for the truth"  :grin: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1041191 -

Ahh, I see. Good point  :grin:   

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1042166 -

the "truth" in this case being what Alex..... your own set of beliefs?*

No, the truth being John Lilly isn't a "self-admitted ketamine junkie". He has never said any such thing. Swami got excitable as usual and lied to try and make a point.

If Swami can provide any evidence that Lilly was a "self-admitted ketamine junkie" it would be a debate. Until then it is simply Swami lying and me telling the truth.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1042570 -

No, the truth being John Lilly isn't a "self-admitted ketamine junkie".

Okay Alex, fair enough and thanks for responding :smile: However, from my own perspective the real issue would see to be that, self admitted or not, Lilly seems to have been at some point....a ketamine junkie. If what you have posted re his comments is true concerning him denying the concept of addiction....in my mind that would constitute classic denial and would tend to reinorce(imo) the  fact  that he was addicted to ketamine for a protracted period...

let me reiterate here in case you think i'm attacking the guy. i'm not, i thoroughly enjoyed his zany exploits in the sensory deprivation tank as well as his work with dolphins...... :grin: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belief revisited... [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1042589 -

In reply to:
And yet it is that sand(imo)that is the substance from which objective reality bricks are formed.....




Do you mean objective reality is made of our theories of it??


--------------------
Always Smi2le

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 |  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Disbelief revisited... Nomad 538 2 11/12/02 01:06 PM
by Adamist
* Faith vs Belief ZenGecko 1,168 8 07/02/04 03:27 PM
by Swami
* can you prove the existence of absolute, objective morality?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Anonymous 22,475 157 12/21/04 06:31 AM
by deafpanda
* Firewalking revisited
( 1 2 all )		 Swami 1,501 25 08/21/04 07:22 PM
by Mushmonkey
* Sleep paralysis revisited, or How real is real? Anonymous 1,131 7 05/08/04 02:54 PM
by Redo
* Rational vs. Irrational Beliefs
( 1 2 all )		 Swami 10,717 39 01/14/05 05:58 PM
by Alan Stone
* The Unprovable Nature of Faith and Belief
( 1 2 all )		 DoctorJ 3,058 33 08/11/03 07:13 AM
by fireworks_god
* Unproven Beliefs Silversoul 2,181 15 02/16/05 10:11 AM
by moog

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
9,988 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 17 queries.