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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
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Evidence of UFO's V2
    #2358036 - 02/20/04 05:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, once again, I return to annoy you.

One reason commonly repeated for disbelief in UFO's visiting our planet is that 'Our sky's are being watched by astronomers every night, all over the world'.

I would like to point out that, in fact, the most qualified observers of the sky are seeing craft or lights that they themselves state are certainly not any known astronomical event.  Astronauts and astronomers are the most likely to be biased against alien/UFO phenomena yet many of them have had their minds changed when confronted with it.

My first peice of evidence is:
http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/Astronomers.htm

This is a huge list of astronomers that have sighted UFO's with name/source information and descriptions.

In fact, the very same astronomer that discovered PLUTO has seen several UFO's and stated it was possible that they were extra-terrestrial although could not decide either way.  He also stated that the UFO phenomena has been given a bad name thanks to the wave of hoaxed pictures.  Suddenly a different picture emerges.

I expect many astronomers are worried about reporting anomalies because it could discredit their proffesional representation.

http://www.debshome.com/Astronomer_sightings_L.html

Is a source for above info.

One of the most spectacular video footages of a UFO encounter was taken by cameras on board the Discovery space shuttle on 15 September, 1991. The video sequence was picked up live by a number of amateurs who were directly monitoring the transmissions. The material has been shown in news broadcasts and circulated amongst UFO researchers worldwide.

Have a look for yourself and explain to me how this peice of space debris/meteorite/plasma ball performed a 90 degree turn at unimaginable speeds and shoots out of the Earths atmosphere into space.  It appears to be avoiding a beam of light fired from Earth.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1074.htm

This came from NASA so no silly excuses like they faked it please.  Despite the huge wave of hoaxed photo's their will be some that are real.  Why aren't their more pictures? They are trying to avoid attention not get it!  If they wanted to appear in the world media they would!

And then of course we have the astronauts.  Ever wondered why our space program has almost stopped?  The reason, in my mind, is the amount of astronauts reporting that they were being watched or followed by UFO's.  Funnily enough NASA cut off each of these incidents as they happened.  Radio error or where they trying to hide something from the thousands of astronomers listening/recording their signals from space.

Their is an excellent recording from Niel Armstrong seeing UFO's on the moon.

http://www.ufodigest.com/nasa/

On May 11, 1962 NASA pilot Joseph Walker said that one of his tasks was to detect UFOs during his X-15 flights. He had filmed five or six UFOs during his record breaking fifty-mile-high flight in April, 1962. It was the second time he had filmed UFOs in flight. During a lecture at the Second National Conference on the Peaceful Uses of Space Research in Seattle, Washigton he said:

"I don't feel like speculating about them. All I know is what appeared on the film which was developed after the flight." - Joseph Walker

To date none of those films has been released to the public for viewing.

Why would so many highly trained astronauts think that they saw UFO's if they wern't there.  Why does NASA have a policy of secrecy with UFO's and its astronauts.  Why won't they realease other UFO footage that they have picked up, if they themselves don't beleive it to be real.

One last peice of evidence, an active attempt to disclose what the officials have seen to the media and ignorant world.

www.disclosureproject.org

I can't wait to see Swami's excuses for all this.

The evidence is amounting and I will make it my mission to break this mass ignorance.

I don't want to be Fox Mulder.  I do want general public to realise that there is so much evidence pointing towards their existance that it is becoming absurd not to believe. :shocked:


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2358107 - 02/20/04 06:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I can't lean towards neither side right now, although my logic would dictate that there is probably some terrestrial explination for the phenomena. But i hate when the media and goverment make eyewitnesses seem like crazy cooks. It's just so ovious that it's societies intent to make belivers seem crazy. When infact, like you stated, there is an outstanding amount of evidance. They make it seem as if it only lunatic rednecks from the country who fabricate these stories. When we all know that if UFO's would be visible anywhere, it would be out in the country since it's not infected by light polution. Also about 2 years ago A ufo was videotaped broad daylight in a heavy populated city in Mexico. Dozens and dozens of eye witnesses. ALso in cities in Europe. Ofcourse when something of this is actually lucky enough to make it into the media it's never given much coverage.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2358190 - 02/20/04 07:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

DOnt you agree that it demonstrates and infantile and very human mind that feels the need to catagorise and describe to us what something is when there is no factual evidence of its existence let alone its VERY NATURE>
When did someone say 'wow a disk in the sky' or 'wow a strange light at night' = conclusion = 'they must be aliens from another planet that want to study our biology.
Its to simplistic to expect that the truth of these phenonema fits into a very simple and un imaginative linear model of the physical world - which quantum physics has basically destroyed.
i have seen a few ufos out in the desert but i dont claim to understand anything about them. I believe their existence, but as a true person of interlect i realise that there is no real way that i could understand anything about them from visual glimpses alone.


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OfflineThe_Visionaire
Torch

Registered: 02/16/04
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2358392 - 02/20/04 09:55 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with you danoEoboy. This phenomena is impossible to explain in usual terms if people would really take the time to study it. I`m sure there is no ONE evidence that could convince a sceptic. You have to collect pieces of puzzle from all areas; documented, radar-plotted and video-taped. You will also have to consider that millions of people have encountered UFO phenomena. Do you really think all these are delusions? (The real delusions are the absurd "scientific" explanations some sceptics come up with). Then you would have to put these pieces of puzzle together, and do not sit and wait for a pice of puzzle to fall into your lap, seek and ye shall find.


I do not agree with the way bluemeanie reasons. It seems to me that your approach to this is somewhat unscientific. If we have a phenomena that is not explainable by any contemporary scientific model or known technology (i.e. the extreme accelerations of UFOs measured by radars) we have to make some theories about what we are dealing with. Such a theory, and the only one that has the power to explain the wide range of phenomena we are dealing with here, is that we are dealing with extraterrestial intelligence. Whether these intelligent objects are 3-dimensional by nature or a cross-section of some hyperdimensional intelligence penetrating our own plane is an open question. Perhaps both.

It is indeed possible that alien civilizations may be able to trancend space-time in some way, thereby allowing faster-than-light travel.

The crop circles are another phenomena which probably relates to UFO technology. Yea, I know some of them are fake, but the real ones are impossible to explain in a satisfactory way. The area of the crop-circle is found to be radioactive, the crops are strangely fire-damaged by the root, and the way the crops are laid cannot be explained by usual trampling techniques (actually the late mathematician Gerald Hawkins, developed a new mathematical theorem based on the problem of how the crops could be laid in such a way.

Eyewitnesses reports that they have seen strange lights above the crop-circles area. There is also an incident captured on tape where we see a ball of light sweeping in the air over the acre while the crops flatten out forming the crop-circle (have no referance, saw it on a discovery documentary).

And by the way; there is two way in which to be fooled:
Either you believe that something is true and it turns out to be false, or you refuse to believe in something and it turns out to be the truth.

"You have to be awake, alert for truth." (David Bohm)


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There are no differences between men and gods,
one blends softly causal into the other.
-Frank Herbert, Dune.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: The_Visionaire]
    #2358815 - 02/20/04 11:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

or when the beings in the ufo come out, and communicate with you, and tell you where they are from, and why they are there.. call me unscientific but I tend to believe them.

Earth is a very interesting place right now. There's a transformation going on but at the same time we are living in a pool of ignorance. They don't make themselves known on a global level because we can't handle it right now. We would go crazy and start killing people and try to kill them. So they have to introduce themselves slowly, over time.. to get us used to their presence. Imagine you have interstellar capabilities and you find a lesser developed civilization... would you just land and say hey... no..especially not if in your history you have tried that many times and it led to disaster... and especially not if you are living in another dimension of space and time and a different reality.

They just want us to embrace humanity, embrace each other.. before we can embrace another civilization. They are trying to wake us up, so to speak, slowly... and steadily.. the proven method.

but what do I know... I'm just another "crazy believer".


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2358843 - 02/20/04 12:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Where is the photo of you with your arm around a Grey?



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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2358849 - 02/20/04 12:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

heh... I was counting the seconds until you replied to me and not the topic of this thread...you were late.. 9 minutes :mad:

greys are 4th dimensional beings, not 3 dimensional sculptures like that picture
and there we no cameras around when they were probing my mind, sorry


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OfflineAtomisk
all forms areself awareness

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 164
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2358851 - 02/20/04 12:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

can these aliens visiting earth be seen? what do they look like? or can they only be seen mentally?
edit:i believe theres other intelligent life out there, but im not completely convinced there coming to earth.


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


Edited by Atomisk (02/20/04 12:14 PM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Atomisk]
    #2358881 - 02/20/04 12:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

ok I'll answer your questions fully and openly because my back is like a duck and I'm used to the sarcastic answers that will follow.


the aliens visiting earth can be seen, but not with the physical eyes. The third eye would be the one, and they would appear as fast vibrating energy bodies. The beings visiting earth are in 4th density or above... meaning they vibrate at a much faster rate then we perceive. 4th density is quasi-physical... still in the physical realm, but much less dense then something in the 3rd density (the one we live in). 5th density beings and above are purely spiritual energy (non-physical)

What do they look like? Well considering there are about 60+ different races visiting or living on Earth currently, it varies. The most common form would be human.. humanoid figures are the most common form for intelligent life to take in this galaxy. Some races would look identical to the average human, except being 4th dimensional, and spiritually evolved, they may appear taller and more luminous. Then there is your genetically altered human, which is what the zetas or greys look like... the stereotypical alien image. There is also reptilian races, catlike races, dolphinlike races.. and some very strange looking things that we would not even recognize as intelligent life (for example, plasma or silicon-based life forms as opposed to carbon-based) The universe is diverse. It all depends what species became the dominant intelligent life first on their planet, humanoid is the most common.

When we see their ships, it's on purpose. The ships and occupants are already in the 4th density, which is invisible to our physical, 3rd density eyes. In order for us to see their craft, they have to initiate a process where they downshift or slow down the vibration of the craft so that it is visible to our naked eye.


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OfflineThe_Visionaire
Torch

Registered: 02/16/04
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Atomisk]
    #2358894 - 02/20/04 12:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

UFOs is mainly a external phenomena. There are reports of close encounters with 3D beings as well. I recall an incident in russia where a UFO landed containing some giant beings (looking like men). This was witnessed by approximately 100 eyewitnesses, including russian military.

The greys are not 3D beings as far as I know, and I do not like them or trust them. Most of the reports where the greys appear involves involuntary forced actions. It`s almost as if they feed on strong emotions. See www.cassiopaea.org for some dirt on these beings. A close friend of mine had an encounter with two greys one of them streching the arm into her stomach, doing god knows what. Never asking, just making themselves comfortable!


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There are no differences between men and gods,
one blends softly causal into the other.
-Frank Herbert, Dune.


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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2358896 - 02/20/04 12:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You're right.

I've witnessed a craft close-up and most people I've told have had strange reactions, society has created a stigma which feuled by fear leaves most with disbelief, until they see it with their own eyes that is.


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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2358911 - 02/20/04 12:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Agreed, I accept this as fact but I love to try and look deeper. The evidence that these craft are actually E.T is more flimsy than the evidence for UFO's but still my own research indicates it is. Pictures are noted in many different ancient cultures of bulbous headed beings seemingly emerging from UFO'S. The amount of abduction reports I believe cannot all be hoaxes/hallucination,dream.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: The_Visionaire]
    #2358916 - 02/20/04 12:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The "greys" come in two forms... there are the benevolent zetas, who look the same, and there are the malevolent greys. They are both 4D. The 'greys' feed on fear, they take tissue samples, blood, eggs and semen, in order to create hybrid human/greys because their genetics are failing... they have messed with genetic engineering for so long that they do not even closely resemble who they were to begin with. My first experience with otherworldy beings was with some negative greys. However, contact is never forced, though it may seem that way. There are rules they must abide by.. and one is that contact must be initiated by the human... they have to be invited. After that though, they are there and ready to prey on your fear as they do what they do.

But the greys gave a bad reputation to their loving cousins, the zetas. They are benevolent and are here to help us heal.


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OfflineAtomisk
all forms areself awareness

Registered: 02/09/04
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2358932 - 02/20/04 12:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

when you communicate with these beings, whats it about?


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: The_Visionaire]
    #2358934 - 02/20/04 12:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm glad theres somebody here who understands my logic.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Atomisk]
    #2358993 - 02/20/04 01:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I communicate with only one group now.. we have been working together for a long time. They are generally helping me to learn things and how to heal my energy system and how to teach people to do it for themselves. They call it lightwork.. spiritual healing..cleansing the chakra system and the ka and ba...

prior communications with beings with less....pure intentions... have led to tons of information on earth changes.. probably intended to strike fear. The greys in particular, had a lot to say about cataclysms.

but the beings I am in league with now are more spiritually pure.. their main goal when working with me is to assist my evolution process... as that is their goal when working with others. they communicate with me things of a spiritual nature.. earth changes...but positive ones.. in the near future.. about how to find balance in thought and action.. all sorts of stuff. But it is mostly internal healing (repressed emotions, fears, etc) cleansing, and preparation.


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OfflineCrazyJulio
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Registered: 01/29/04
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2359312 - 02/20/04 02:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

! Shroomism, that's awesome. I've heard ALL of that same info before from someone I know, it's incredibly awakening to hear a complete stranger talk about exactly the same stuff, too.


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OfflineAtomisk
all forms areself awareness

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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2359336 - 02/20/04 02:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

preparation?


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


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OfflineSquatting_Otter
Freedom Code

Registered: 02/13/04
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: CrazyJulio]
    #2359409 - 02/20/04 03:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

wow 2 people read the same books!


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Atomisk]
    #2359415 - 02/20/04 03:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

preparation of mind, body and soul for the shift in densities.. which we should all be preparing for, and for first contact, and the many aspects that go along with. I suppose I should explain more in depth, but no time right now.. later.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Atomisk]
    #2359458 - 02/20/04 03:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

...H.

Helps ease the pain of the probing...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAtomisk
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2359525 - 02/20/04 03:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i believe you really believe your in contact with these beings, and thats cool, you seem like a nice guy shroomism, so please dont take this as a knock, try to see it from my shoes, ive never had any such experiences, so you see, its hard for me to imagine something that seems so far out to me...its something i'd have to experience to truely believe...like i said, im not in any way knocking your beliefs, i think they are quite interesting and im intrigued. so, please continue when you have the time to do so.


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2359718 - 02/20/04 04:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i've always thought of the "sighted" UFO's (you know, the crash landing ones, or the ones that get too close to us so we can video tape them) were just drunken teenage idiot aliens who thought it'd be cool to get real close to earth. just a theory ive had, i guess.

anyway, i did see some super natural stuff happening in the sky once. big light flash covering the whole sky at once (at 11pm in the dead middle of nowhere), and then a trail of light immediately forming after this and remaining in the sky for around the same duration that a plane's smoke trail lasts. no camera, though. my friend saw the exact same thing i did (he was with me).


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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey


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OfflinePoopShooter
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2359943 - 02/20/04 04:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hey, Shroomism, I'm wondering how you "invite" these aliens to visit? Do you just think it, or use a form of meditation or do you go outside and just yell real loud? This is all very interesting to me, as I also have had some close encounters (or atleast think I have).


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Invisiblewinelover
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: PoopShooter]
    #2360037 - 02/20/04 05:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

H D Ballard ....wrote a sci fi story in 1967 about aliens comming to earth and selling magic mushroom kits to the younger generation with the intention of making contact through the telepathic plane.
this was how I met the lurker at the threashhold via amazonian strain, I believe this being to have been not of this world. the same evening a ufo was sighted by hundreds of people in the town hovering in the sky above.
I was told that if I wanted to make further contact it would be instigated by the taking of the amazonian .
At the time it scared the shit out of me but 1977 was a long time ago and now I have the strenght to hold on ,may the force be with me and the sword of truth.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: The_Visionaire]
    #2362016 - 02/21/04 01:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

But what your actually suggesting has no scientific testable basis - your conclusions and hypothesis that these objects are automatically from 'outer space' has no basis in factual evidence.
UFOs as objects exist as I myself have seen strange and unexplainable objects on three seperate occassions, once with a group of six astronomers - and i believe some people have contact with what THEY BELIEVE or are TOLD are beings from other planets. They may even see 'star maps' BettyHill abduction) or strange writing (zeta reticuli abduction scenarios) but this doesnt automatically prove the mundane reality that they are all space men.
But that is where the scientific leaves this equasion.
You cannot use science to explain anything else about this phenonema until there is evidence that indicates your contention is even slightly on the right path.
The slim archaeological evidence that suggests contact with intelligences with strange physical appearances provides no context for these pictures that automatically says : YES THEY HAVE TO BE FROM OUTSPACE BECAUSE OUR BRAINS CANT COMPREHEND ANYTHING MORE DEFYING TO OUR CURRENT SIMPLISTIC VIEW OF PHYSICS !!!'
To say that you dont like the greys is quite ludicrious. It assumes that you have experience with material creatures from Zeta Reticula or whereever and that they are sinister. The truth is that your basing this one the american crap youve read about the greys. And reading views by Witley Streiber and many abduction experiencers the truth is far more disturbing - that the grey organic description is only one of many shapes and appearances that the intelligence use during one contact experience. The catagorisation into different 'races' is a human attempt to fit this unexplainable phenonema into a simplistic mind view that people want to believe in - a crutch like religion.
The real reason many of you and the UFO community at large are so eager to label these objects and intelligences as from 'outer space' is as John Keel suggests in his fantastic book 'The Mothmen Prophercies '(nothing like the film!!!) - because it supports your own world views - it makes you feel good inside that even the unexplainable will actually conform to their rather unimaginative view of reality.
Because no one can prove otherwise, they accept that this basic and unimaginitive theory is reality and even try to describe the many different 'races' of aliens - which all seem to conform to the same homonid shape that humans happened to evolve into, and all with two arms and two legs. You might have the zeta reticulan greys, the orion greys, the reptileans from draco, or the nordic pleadeians - seriously its primary school theory - even George Lucas could have provided a more indepth explaination.
I used to be quite into UFOs and spent countless hours researching this topic and was even lucky enough to see a black triangle, an orange disk with yellow lights and a red blob that changed 180 degrees at speeds far beyond the explanation of current human physics.
If these craft act in ways that defy our physical understanding of reality, why is it so hard to believe or be open to the possiblity that the intelligence behind these phenonema also do??? Because the knowledge that you cannot in any way explain this phenonema scares you.
It is just as likely that these objects arent even physical in nature - that they represent a breach between our time/space and a timeless and ever-existant other of McKenna type fame.
They could be us in the far distant future in time machines who tell us they are aliens so we dont realise our own futures.
They could be the dead who have manifested themselves in material form for a short period for some unknown task.
In the past they were elves and pixies because it fit with the belief system - them as aliens has just molded the phenonema into a new world view.
ANYWAY PLEASE READ JOHN KEEL"S BOOK - its an eye opener!


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Edited by Zen Peddler (02/21/04 02:03 AM)


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OfflineThe_Visionaire
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2362858 - 02/21/04 09:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

What is evidence? These UFOs are nothing we can confine to our laboratories or do repeatable examinations upon. But through earlier mentioned documentation we can make a somewhat clearer picture of the phenomena.

That extraterrestial intelligence is involved seems to me to be an interesting hypothesis. You mention some others, and I am familiar and have thought about those as well.

I belive we have to separate the "hard" material UFO sightings, appearing on radar and sighted by pilots (and often witnessed by large groups) from mental UFO phenomena (i.e. alien abduction stories), happening often as a person is about to sleep or waking up (in the Grey hours).

Among the "hard" UFOs we have the more etherical balls of light and other bright luminous phenomena, and we have the more steel-draped material craftlike vessels.

You speculate that some of the UFO phenomena can be of an unphysical character, or from a spirit realm (for me there is nothing that is unphysical; it depends on how you define physics.. But I understand what you mean). In my previous post I also implied that this could indeed be the case, as a higher-dimensional phenomena intersecting our plane of existence. Yes, I labeled this hyperdimensional phenomena extraterrestial, although such a word seems to loose its meaning while operating within higher dimensions.

I think the etherical UFOs is the best candidates for such an explanation.

As for the space-craft UFOs this seems unlikely to me as they are apparently 3-dimensional constructions. There is of course speculations if these UFOs are US military experimental crafts. This seems very unlikely to me, as such a technology would be lightyears ahead the technology of main-stram science. This is a strong indication of extra-terrestial activity.

As for the mental UFO phenomena I agree that we should not be hasty to characterize these as extra-terrestial of origin. Another possible explanation is that they are a meme planted by some Grand Sorcerers within the US government, for wathever purpose (haha, this is how far the psi program has developed, speculations allowed! Please, I do no hold this as very likely, I just can't exclude it either. Do not label me among the paranoid conspiracy bunch). Before the 1970s there were no reports of the greys, and then it suddenly exploded. Others speculate that the greys are 4dimensional probes or robots used by other races. And we have of course explanations along the path shroomism is suggesting.

The reason I said that I do not like the Greys is because they, whatever they are, intrude upon individuals (Shroomism says they must be invited, but I do not quite buy that). Many people have had negative experiences with them, so I do not understand how you can label my feelings of dis-like of such a phenomena as ludicrous.

You imply that these alien phenomena could also be the ancient belief in elves and goblins that now have gotten a different reality-frame to operate within. But this is not an argument against aliens. That would have been the same as imlying that the belief that lightning is caused by electrical discharges is somewhat dubiously, as they in the past believed (in norse mythology) that it was the thundergod Thor striking his hammer. Yes, there is a phenomena that people have experienced up through the ages, but our worldview becomes increasingly advanced, and the actual facts of thing becomes clearer.

As for the Orions, the lizards, the cats and other creatures, I am of somewhat the same opinon as yourself. Why would someone call themselves the Orions? Orion is a constellation, from our 2D perspective the stars in the constellation may seem like they are close, but the luminousity of the stars vary and they are really quite apart. Such a name seems a bit Lucas to me as well.

And why would we have a variety of aliens that are exactly like earthly life? It seems unlikely. But maybe shroomism is not that far away either, if we take Rupert Shaldrakes theories of a formative morphogenetic field into consideration. This field is perhaps non-lokal or have a wide range, making life in our corner of the galaxy to be quite similar.

But then again I am also open to the idea that it is we who clothe these beings.


--------------------
There are no differences between men and gods,
one blends softly causal into the other.
-Frank Herbert, Dune.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: The_Visionaire]
    #2362975 - 02/21/04 10:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

bluemeanie... some people speculate that the greys from zeta reticuli, is a parallel Earth reality in the future. It's one of our possible realities. It's a long story, but basically they destroyed the atmosphere with war and technology, had to live underground for many generations, while underground modified their dna and evolved to suit dark cramp places, when they finally emerged from the underground they found their planet had changed star systems, which led them on a quest for knowledge and they later discovered it had slipped into a wormhole or some crap.

poopshooter... contacting these beings is not hard.. it is processing and remembering the experiences that is. It can be said with certainty, that everyone on Earth right now, has had contact with one of these beings in some form or another. Many people don't consider their 'contacts' to be valid reality, so they dismiss it. These beings do not function on our level of reality, that is, they do not have a "beta" mindwave. Alpha, theta, and delta, is what they live in. There is no such thing as an ego based reality for them. Also, they communicate telepathically, since mind-to-mind communication has long been deemed the universal language, with the least possibility for misinterpretation. Telepathy occurs in the subconscious mind, as that is where all memories and archetypes are stored. Therefore we may not necessarily be consciously aware of a telepathic conversation, if we are not in tune with our subconscious.

These beings are a subtle energy. They are in no rush to land with the mothership and be known publically worldwide. They understand that first contact is a gradual process... it has been done many times before in the past. For you see, when a civilization reaches a certain point in its development, it becomes inevitable that they will encounter otherworldly beings.. they like to make themselves known right around that time, so that they can give us some advice and tips and help us into a new era of communication and brotherhood. Developing contact with these beings is a very personal process for everyone... everyone must first battle their own inner demons and face archetypes and all sorts of things. In fact they have provided a list of very important things to do that will help to assimilate and remember contact. Some may seem simple and obvious, but they are all very important. If everyone did this the world would be a better place.

1. Acknowledge Inevitability
This is usually easy. acknowledge the reality and inevitability of an open relationship with beings not of your realm. This isn't a conscious thing, it's deeply emotional. It's not a hope, but a certainty...

2. Personal Truth vs. Disinformation
This is pretty much a no-brainer. UFOs and UFO related subjects.. there are a lot of opinions, and a lot of disinformation. However, the only opinion that matters is the one you hold. So first start on the intellectual level and go through and throw out all those opinions and ideas you think are bullshit. Get to the root of what you believe. Then do your emotional homework.. ask yourself if there's anything you fear about ET contact...the most common fear is that the human will lose his or her ego...this deep fear cannot be accessed by conscious mind, as that is ruled by ego, so you need to dig deep. Find your own truths and your own secret fears about this contact phenomenon.

3. Embrace Humanity
This one is pretty obvious. How do you embrace open contact with an ET species... when we can't even embrace each other? How do you accept an equal and open relationship with a zeta or 'orion' or pleiadian, if you cannot do so with a black, white, or gay? Contact is unable to occur on its fullest level until humanity embraces itself. On every level..conscious and unconscious. This doesn't mean go out and embrace a serial killer, just examine the unconscious part of you that refuses to embrace people that you fear. Go within. Who do you fear in your own society? Pick them out and look at what they represent to you as an individual. This is a very powerful step. Just examining these things will bring certain things to light and your reality begins to change.

4. Interspecies Communication
This is an easy one. There are many alient species on Earth, all of which have a certain type of sentience, not the same as ours, but still sentience nonetheless. Learn to communicate with these different species, but don't communicate according to your rules of communication... reach out into their world...and find a common ground where you two can merge realities. If you try to communicate by your rules, you will be disapointed. Reach out into their realm, and make new rules with them. This is like SETI blasting radio waves into space and searching for alien transmissions, expecting aliens to communicate according to OUR rules of communication. That is the exact same as sending smoke signals to NASA and expecting a return communication... it's not going to happen. We have to find a common ground. Radio waves are so primitive anyway.

A common ground for alien contact is through dreams. The ETs can access that reality easily, they are not communicating according to their rules, but not according to our rules either. It is a good starting point.

5. Confront your fears
Humans fear things. I'm not talking about fear of death or snakes or small spaces..those are rational, conscious fears. I am talking about fears of which the conscious mind is unaware....fears that are buried in the unconscious, and the ego protects us from knowing about these fears.
Intellect cannot help you find these fears, as again, intellect represent conscious mind (ego), and therefore cannot communicate what the unconscious is fearing. So to work on these deep, dark, inner fears..we must work on other levels. Each of us can find our own tools..some example are rebirthing, regression, or anything that uses archetypes,like dreamwork or certain native american rituals. Do whatever you can to unlock the unconscious and face your fears. It may get hairy, but you will feel much better in the end. The unconscious mind is like opening pandora's box..you never know whats going to come flying out.. much of the scary stuff comes out before it balances itself out.

6. Integrate self and decompartmentalize
Change your perception. When you talk to people, talk to their whole body as a total unit, and not just their head. Become whole and not a bunch of parts. This is more a process of self-discovery then anything.

7. Reclaim your power
Stop fighting each other. Stop being a victim. This is a culmination of these seven steps... and should come naturally. Reclaim your power as a sovereign being.


Follow the above steps and you will be well on your way to remembering the contact that has been there all along.



friends I have said that humanoid is the most common form of intelligent life, which it is, but that does not mean it is the only form. There are certain alien species that if you saw and did not have a good sense of self, would completely lose it. This is why it is necessary to do these things and lose judgement. This is also why humanoids are the active visiting races..they dont want to freak us out too bad. I mentioned plasma and silicon based races.. now just imagine that for a second... intelligent, sentient life can come in many strange forms. It just so happens that human is very common, just because two arms, two legs, two eyes, carbon and water based life form is very efficient for experiencing intelligent and spiritual life. It's track tested.



Also with the greys. I stand by what I said that all contact must be invited. This deals with the compartmentalization issue.... many times a person will agree to a contact on the subconscious level, which is where the telepathy and communication occurs.... but on the conscious level, they may be afraid of it, and be saying NO NO NO. Well the greys don't hear conscious mind, they only hear subconscious and unconscious. So because of that person's compartmentalized consciousness, one part may be saying one thing, while consciously, they are thinking they are saying no. And during the encounter, they will be telling themselves (consciously) that it is an abduction, and they did not agree to it...when really... they agreed completely. It can be very tricky, which is why it is very important to analyze these things within youself. No one is a victim.


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OfflineAtomisk
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2363053 - 02/21/04 11:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

could you try to describe the plasma and silicon based beings, please?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Atomisk]
    #2363134 - 02/21/04 11:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

not sufficiently, no. a silicon-based life form would be completely different from life as we know it. the closest I could come would be to tell you to imagine an intelligent formless green blob or an amoebae..although silicon based life could take on many forms.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Atomisk]
    #2363408 - 02/21/04 01:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Atomisk said:
i believe you really believe your in contact with these beings, and thats cool, you seem like a nice guy shroomism, so please dont take this as a knock, try to see it from my shoes, ive never had any such experiences, so you see, its hard for me to imagine something that seems so far out to me...its something i'd have to experience to truely believe...like i said, im not in any way knocking your beliefs, i think they are quite interesting and im intrigued.  so, please continue when you have the time to do so.




You and me are in the same level in this topic. Im open to the concept but it would be impossible to fully embrace something that i havent experienced. I have been tought not to belive everything i read and sometimes i don't even belive what i experience myself. However i enjoy Shroomisms "alien" post very much because i am familiar with everything he speaks of and know that this is a world wide movement, not just Shroomism. Especially belivers in the Plaedians and Annunaki alien races wich have been in contact with Humanity since the beggining. The Plaedian belivers can point out the Galaxy wich they live on and everything. It's all very intresting stuff and it ties with religion and human history. However at this point i take everything as a possibilty and not fact. But thats just how i take everything i learn. It helps me keep my sanity.  :smile:


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OfflineThe_Visionaire
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2363592 - 02/21/04 02:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Have you seen the material on www.cassiopaea.org ? Especially the section "The Wave" related to the ascendancy to 4th density. They channel someone that calls themselves the Cassiopaeans. Would you label it disinformation or does it reflect your own view on things?

They seem to imply that we are under negative influence from 4th density reptilians (cough.. this is quite weird to me. But a friend of mine is a "supporter" of this cassiopaean view).

I`m just gathering information. Presently I am at Spokesman's level when evaluing these things; everything is possibility but nothing facts. Well, I see higher dimensional reality as fact (sort of), Spokesman probably see the beer in his hand as a fact :tongue:, and you probably see the aliens you frequently communicate with as a fact.

Just expanding consciousness...


--------------------
There are no differences between men and gods,
one blends softly causal into the other.
-Frank Herbert, Dune.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2363651 - 02/21/04 02:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Great thread danoEoboy!

Those who don't believe in extra terrestrials are trying too hard not to believe in them.




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OfflineAtomisk
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2363977 - 02/21/04 03:31 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

what are some good books and web-sites that cover this whole alien conspiracy thing?


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2364023 - 02/21/04 03:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

a silicon-based life form would be completely different from life as we know it. the closest I could come would be to tell you to imagine an intelligent formless green blob or an amoebae..

Think of the Horta (a silicon-based amorphous blob) from a 1969 Star Trek episode. Guess those screenwriters are pretty advanced dudes...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2364033 - 02/21/04 03:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Ah, the notorious Adamski photo hoax using fishing line and Hoover vacuum cleaner parts. What intelligent being wouldn't be convinced?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2364061 - 02/21/04 03:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That picture may or may not be faked, but I know one thing. Dano has some good evidence in his first post in this thread.

With all due respect, how do you justify writing off all extraterrestrial sightings in the face of such evidence? You're just believing what the government wants you to believe. You didn't believe them when it came to "Operation Iraqi Liberation", so why do you believe them now in the face of such evidence of UFO's?




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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2364073 - 02/21/04 04:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Great thread danoEoboy!

Those who don't believe in extra terrestrials are trying too hard not to believe in them.



I believe extraterrestrials exist, but I think they're chilling on their own planets.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: The_Visionaire]
    #2364307 - 02/21/04 05:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The Visonaire, i was going through that link you gave us and i found the first chapter of The Wave very interesting.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave_i.htm

At first i was reading with a great deal of skepticism as I'm not a firm believer in the credibility of hypnosis as a recalling memory technique. But halfway through the second transmission section, the events that were being described kept reminding me of references in the Christian Bible. Everything from the garden of Eden to Jesus to the book of Revelations. Especially the rapture.

I recommend everyone interested reads this entire first chapter, even if your in it for a sci-fi thrill, a chuckle, or your truly a believer. It's long so i haven't finished it. Im on the part about the Nephilim living planet-less in the constellation of Orion. Aw going to be searching this subject on Google and Books for the next couple of days. This has defenetly caught my attention.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Atomisk]
    #2365242 - 02/21/04 09:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A good book is 'Close encounters of the 4th kind' by CDB.Bryan.

I'm not sure if I buy into this 4th density stuff, I mean who exactly decided all this stuff was correct?

At the moment I know E.T's real, but I don't think I can speculate as far to say he's living in the 4th density and feeding from our fear!

But, I respect everyones ideas and views, cheers guys! :smile:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2365458 - 02/21/04 10:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:

Think of the Horta (a silicon-based amorphous blob) from a 1969 Star Trek episode. Guess those screenwriters are pretty advanced dudes...




They could have known a thing or two..


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2370794 - 02/23/04 06:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Vision. Thank you for the rational outlook. I suppose sceptics would say that your and my own outlook is quite irrational, but sceptics quite affectively ignore away anything that does automaically manifest purely in the physical realms.
I think the important point is that conclusions when you consider the extreme otherworldness of these experiences, and the fact that many experiences are completely bizarre - where time seems slower or faster, beings seem subtle as if not really organic, etc suggests that these phenonema arent consistantly held to the same physical laws that we 'think' ours is held by.
Abduction by Whatever guy - J.Mack?, Bud hopkins' book, Mothman Prophercies and Communion are all written about highly irrational material by highly rational minds. And they all profoundly express above all else, the other aspects of the strangeness of the phenonema - he lights in the sky and craft are played down compared to the weird environments and otherness of the experiences oftime, reality, their own appearance which canbe different to the physical world, and various other factors.
I just think it is too simple minded to have an open mind that ufos exist but then a closed mind that they have to be aliens from another dimension with agendas that we can relate to and similar appearances, when at the end of the day there could be all sorts of bizzare realities behind this.
I think John Keel said the words that changed my outlook - in two chapters he demonstrates that the phenonema changes its nature to SUIT the outlook of the experiencer.
There was a house featured in the book where one person had all udo related experiences, contact with aliens through his tv and all, the next person in the house had all ghost experiences and poltergeists, the third only bigfoot sittings and activity - it molded to what the could accept the easiest.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2370889 - 02/23/04 07:48 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

With all due respect, how do you justify writing off all extraterrestrial sightings in the face of such evidence? You're just believing what the government wants you to believe.

maybe YOU'RE just believing what the government wants you to believe :wink:




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Offlinescarywindow
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2371171 - 02/23/04 11:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

hmmm. www.cassiopaea.org - the wave series.
this really IS an interesting read... I'm on chapter four right now.
I've heard most of this stuff before, and while I believe a LOT of it, I've never been for believing in channelings. Something about this one though... These people are trained physicists and scientists... and that really makes the difference here. Not because that makes them right or better than anyone else who claims to channel, but because they still hold a certian cynicism that they are even getting correct information (yet they seem to be pretty convinced). I implore everyone to check this out. It will certainly make you think at the very least.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2371631 - 02/23/04 01:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That picture may or may not be faked, but I know one thing. Dano has some good evidence in his first post in this thread.
It is faked and has been proven. The other "evidence" is along the same lines.

With all due respect, how do you justify writing off all extraterrestrial sightings in the face of such evidence?
What evidence do you have that a light in the sky is extra-terrestrial. Give me the best evidence now.

You're just believing what the government wants you to believe.
(See thread on "Poor Debating Technique".)

You didn't believe them when it came to "Operation Iraqi Liberation", so why do you believe them now in the face of such evidence of UFO's?
The government has not spoken to me on this issue. Perhaps in my next high-level cabinet meeting it will come up.


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OfflineThe_Visionaire
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: scarywindow]
    #2371712 - 02/23/04 01:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, they do not take the channeled information for granted, but researches the subjects through other means as well. It is quite a substansial work that Laura Knight has done here, culminating in her book Ancient Science. The scope is weird to the limits of crazyness, and there are some concepts I just can`t buy (or can I...?).

It is not the coming wave that troubles me, more of the lizzie conspiracy thing. I`ll just have to read more.
The service to self contra service to others rhymes with some yogic text I have read.


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Offlinescarywindow
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: The_Visionaire]
    #2371823 - 02/23/04 02:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The_Visionaire said:

It is not the coming wave that troubles me, more of the lizzie conspiracy thing. I`ll just have to read more.
The service to self contra service to others rhymes with some yogic text I have read.




I wouldn't worry about it too much. I mean, be aware and everything, but don't be frightened. It's all in the grand scheme of things. We'll be okay. The more knowledge that we possess, the better equipped we are against these sorts of beings. We choose our own reality. It's either live in fear and allow ourselves to be ensnared, or just say "NO! I want better than this!" and do the necessary research of your existing knowledge, and THEN seek out more knowledge just like Ms. Knight has.

I am a firm believer in the Wave. I really do believe that humanity here on Earth (which currently resides in 3rd density) needs to be tuning itself to get ready for this oncoming shift (to the 4th). Part of that tuning is simply SEARCHING for knowledge... and I don't just mean on some web page. Look inside. Look outside. It's all there. It's all here.

We can all do that, right?...

Oh, and very sorry for going way off topic.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: scarywindow]
    #2371922 - 02/23/04 02:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

*Swami looks inside*

*Swami looks outside*

*Swami notes nothing extraordinary and scratches head*


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2371929 - 02/23/04 02:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Swami said:

Think of the Horta (a silicon-based amorphous blob) from a 1969 Star Trek episode. Guess those screenwriters are pretty advanced dudes...


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They could have known a thing or two..

About writing fiction.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2373045 - 02/23/04 07:31 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Still nothing but mockery Swami.

You have some excellent new angles on the topic blue meanie. I especially like the idea of the 'external forces' creating whatever is acceptable to that person!

Visionaire I like your outlook and have the same theories about physical/unphysical. The catagorization of dimesions/densities really isn't possible until science can quantify a seperation.

Great debating!


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2373119 - 02/23/04 07:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

All sightings by everyone from the begining of time of aliens are false? If even one is true, then aliens exist. Am I right?

Were people who painted UFO's hundreds of years ago just seeing birds or government aircraft? How about this one from 1710...


Or this one from the 1400's.....



Or this one, also from the 1400's......



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2373127 - 02/23/04 07:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:





Hey... is that a tugboat?


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2373174 - 02/23/04 08:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Learyfan, good one, i seen those before and i was just about to search for them. As for the wave it's a cool theory that coinsides with the book of revelations very well but i suggest you search the words "Laura Knight" and "fraud" together on google before you come to any solid conclusions.


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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2373312 - 02/23/04 09:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
but i suggest you search the words "Laura Knight" and "fraud" together on google before you come to any solid conclusions.




I did exactly that, and there is nothing that really makes me doubt her sincerety. I'm not saying that I follow this woman... not by any means. I just find that a lot of what the Cassiopaeans are saying to be relevant. Hell, maybe it IS a fraud, but it made me think A LOT. I'm still more convinced that this lady is sincere.
They have no solid proof to the contrary.


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Anonymous

Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2373341 - 02/23/04 09:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I've been researching and reading the Cassiopaea material for 2 years now and while I don't believe Laura or her work is a fraud (and there are some extremely dedicated people out there with web sites trying to make her look bad), I do believe all the attention has gone to her head. The Cassiopaea web site used to have a lot of insightful info, including all the channelings. Now all the site contains is Laura's extremely cynical and paranoid articles, which do little or nothing to help humanity prepare for the Transition in any way. The Wave series is all that remains of the old Cass site and I wouldn't spend much time on that site besides reading that. The channelings have conveniently disappeared from the web site also except for the excerpts included in the articles, and no new channelings have been released for more than a year. How is this in line with the mentality of service-to-others? [/rant]


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: ]
    #2373563 - 02/23/04 10:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well this is what i found when i searched and while it could be an intent to destroy her credibility, people should be careful when puting any kind of faith in one persons belief. All i am saying is that you should do extensive research on the person who's literature you are starting to belive.

"That Laura Knight Jadczyk, her husband Ark Jadczyk, and other members of the Perseus Foundation did in fact commit serious fraud with the fake house raffle scam, the so-called Raffle of the Millennium, should be obvious to anyone who takes the time to look at the very basic details:


o They took in money, between $100,000 and $150,000 from October to January 2002 ?03, as a non-profit raffle sponsor even though Perseus Foundation is not now, and never has been, a legal 501-c-3 with the ability to grant tax write offs for donations.


o They never gave their house away, didn?t even pay off the mortgage, and as recently as this summer, 2003, were trying to sell it themselves.


o They left quickly for France, where, by Laura?s own figures in various instalments of the French Connection, they have spent over $80,000 in moving and living expenses, in addition to a $50,000 down payment on a castle.


Laura Knight Jadczyk has admitted in various round-about places that the above facts are true. The donation pages no longer mentions the Perseus Foundation or any kind of tax-exempt status, and certainly there has never been any sort of authorization letter from the IRS granting 501-c-3 status. Laura admitted that things didn?t go quite right with the house in Florida, but blamed it on the people she left in charge. And while she has never said where the money she details in her rantings comes from, there can be little doubt that it is in fact the money from the raffle scam"

http://www.cassiopaea.net/


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OfflineAtomisk
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2373634 - 02/23/04 11:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

plus, her vagina smells bad :lipsrsealed:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: The_Visionaire]
    #2373968 - 02/24/04 12:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

What is evidence? These UFOs are nothing we can confine to our laboratories...

Once again the tired "laboratory" excuse displaying the poster's ignorance on scientific study and methodology.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Sclorch]
    #2373992 - 02/24/04 12:46 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No, neither a tugboat nor a UFO. It is the symbolic crown of a king coming down from heaven to coronate the young Christ.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2374007 - 02/24/04 12:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Still nothing but mockery Swami.

Still nothing but tired old hoaxed photos and a bunch of sci fi speculation. Show something substantial and you will get a substantial reply.


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OfflineAtomisk
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2374810 - 02/24/04 07:01 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

do you think the video with the light shooting at the ufo is fake, too? b/c if not, that one is strange.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2375057 - 02/24/04 09:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
No, neither a tugboat nor a UFO. It is the symbolic crown of a king coming down from heaven to coronate the young Christ.




A crown!! lol, aw man thats a good one Bush- i mean Swami.  :crazy2:


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2375180 - 02/24/04 10:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Still nothing but mockery Swami.

Still nothing but tired old hoaxed photos and a bunch of sci fi speculation. Show something substantial and you will get a substantial reply.




What about the PAINTINGS ABOVE where is your evidence that they are FAKE? What about NASA where is your evidence that the footage they released is FAKE? How can you disprove the millions of people from every age and culture that have seen these things? What has made millions of people, many of whom, are extremely accredited officials (I.E Major Gordon Cooper) lie?

Have'nt you noticed Swami that you are still using MOCKERY, an emotion, to try and sway peoples opinions. You are showing your self up now with you lack of judgement.

How can I say that? Because the rest of us have input evidence not employed PLAYGROUND TACTICS.

Look at Blue Meanie he doesn't follow my initial view but he has provided some theories and evidence to back up what he is saying.

After 3 monstrous posts on the UFO subject, you are yet to input anything.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2375184 - 02/24/04 10:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

LMFAO  :grin:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2375193 - 02/24/04 10:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hmmm, let's see: a thin gold band encrusted with jewels, I wonder what that might possibly be?


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2375202 - 02/24/04 10:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yeah thats a pretty thin gold band encrusted with some pretty jewels huh, or it can also be a bowl of cereal. I'm going against Swami and saying it's a bowl of cereal damn it!!!  :rolleyes:


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OfflineAtomisk
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Shroomism]
    #2375295 - 02/24/04 11:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Alien Pics

the connection between ETs and Christ are obvious, there is one from the east in there too. you think christ may have been half alien...after all, Mary was supposidly impregnated by a being of light.

shroomism, you've done probably years of research on this, wgat is your theory of the christ/alien/religious/mankind connection? maybe we are just one big experiement...


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2375573 - 02/25/04 09:48 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Hmmm, let's see: a thin gold band encrusted with jewels, I wonder what that might possibly be?




Are we looking at 2 different picture?

In the one I see the solid object in the middle is a dull grey, not gold.  Nor is it thin or a band or encrusted with jewels :alert:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2375586 - 02/25/04 10:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
Are we looking at 2 different picture?

In the one I see the solid object in the middle is a dull grey, not gold.  Nor is it thin or a band or encrusted with jewels :alert:




Now now let's all respect Swami's active imagination................
Im not saying its a UFO but i think this artist could draw a way better crown if that is what he intended, but hey thats just me.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2378145 - 02/26/04 06:03 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
Have'nt you noticed Swami that you are still using MOCKERY, an emotion, to try and sway peoples opinions.  You are showing your self up now with you lack of judgement.




Mockery is an emotion?  :grin: The cause of mockery *might* be as a result OF emotions, but mockery isn't an emotion. hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2378332 - 02/26/04 08:13 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Nor is it thin or a band or encrusted with jewels.

Neither can I see the warp nacells and venturi ports spewing spent anti-matter, nor any aliens waving, but that doesn't seem to have any effect on your fantasy.  :lol:


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Anonymous

Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2378339 - 02/26/04 08:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2378351 - 02/26/04 08:49 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

All sightings by everyone from the begining of time of aliens are false?
I notice that some posters keep switching back & forth between UFOs and aliens as if they are interchangable; which they are not.

Were people who painted UFO's hundreds of years ago just seeing birds or government aircraft? How about this one from 1710...
Without knowing the cultural context and the mind of the artist, it is impossible to say what these objects were supposed to be.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2378471 - 02/26/04 09:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Nor is it thin or a band or encrusted with jewels.

Neither can I see the warp nacells and venturi ports spewing spent anti-matter, nor any aliens waving, but that doesn't seem to have any effect on your fantasy.  :lol:




EXCUSE ME, MR. Mockery but please point out exactly where I stated that this thing was a alien craft?

As I have passed no judgement on what it is, other than it is obviously not a crown, you cannot claim I have a fantasy.

Hey guys if you think the above picture is not a crown then your having a fantasy!  Gee you really know your stuff Swami...

Well spotted technicality FWG.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2378488 - 02/26/04 09:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm going against Swami and saying it's a bowl of cereal damn it!!!

Yeah, but what KIND of cereal? Please be specific. Could be what I thought were jewels were the "raspberry red, lemon yellow and orange-orange" of Trix, but then again, Post cereals weren't around then, so....


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2378492 - 02/26/04 10:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Or one can read how people believed in Angles, Gods and extraterrestrial beings who decended from heaven in this little book called the Bible, and maybe consider that the countless art, literature, photographs and video that depict these visitors might have had some manifestation in real life and didn't just pop into these artists heads because they felt like putting a tilting black flying "crown" in the background. Or balls of light across the sky. Or the Sumerians (first recordable religion) were all on drugs and imagined these Annunaki and their helpers. Still bothers me how they were able to accurately map out our solar system and its 9 planets. And the fact that the Earth is the 7th planet counting from the outskirts of the Solar System in (as a spaceship would see it coming in) maybe doesn't have anything to do with the holiness of the number 7. Still, maybe a little research and consideration wouldn't hurt, instead of prematurely shutting down all evidence thrown at you. But thats just my crazy ol' idea, you know me. :stoned:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2378513 - 02/26/04 10:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

...and maybe consider that the countless art... that depict these visitors might have had some manifestation in real life and didn't just pop into these artists heads

Check out this classic painting. Hieronymus Bosch Garden Of Earthly Delights

Tell me if it must be real because it is on canvas and several hundred years old. Imagination is not a modern invention.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2378632 - 02/26/04 10:48 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That is not a painting of a real place based on real people and even if it was, it would be irrelevant. Your going to tell me that just because their are Science-Fiction movies out there, it means that their aren't movies based on real life?? Just because artist paint paintings of hell, heaven or monsters that means that these UFO's in paintings had no influence by real time events?? No consideration of what influenced these at all uh? Hmm.. I truly belive you are an intellectual person Swami, but as a great scientist once said "Intelligence is nothing without imagination"


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2378689 - 02/26/04 11:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

swami, this is getting silly
theres about 15 pictures there that show flying objects that look uncannily like modern ufos, and even if that one picture COULD be construed as a crown (its pretty ambiguous) there are lots of others there on which you didnt comment at all
a painting is just a painting it can be fictional
but why were there so many paintings of ufos?
thats the question here
im sorry man but your being evasive, and mocking things instead of participating in a genuine discussion
which is not cool

for myself i think that with the sheer number of photos, accounts, paintings etc depicting ufo related stuff, i conclude that there must be something we dont understand yet. i dont think that 'its a hoax, these people are lieing or stupiud, natural phenomenon etc' satisfies the question, but i think all this stuff about high vibration greys and blues form zeta reticuli is even less substantial

i unno i never saw extra terrestrail intellegences except for on mushrooms


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2378726 - 02/26/04 11:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Swami, I don't want to start getting into ego games here. I'll admit that I shouldn't have said "you're just believing what the government wants you to believe" as a debating tactic. I was just frustrated. But as a couple of people have said, you use a lot of mockery in your debating to make other people's stance look ridiculous. So let's put all of that behind us.

Let me ask you once again about this painting from the 1700's....


That's some pretty solid evidence of a UFO sighting. How about this one from the 1400's....



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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2379282 - 02/26/04 01:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If you doubt that our goverment could hide such truths read a book like "Above Black" by Dan Sherman (there's a free sample e-book on his site) and learn about the effective "Onion Effect" and the "Black Missions". Even if the man was insane (wich if you read past the first few shockers and read the entire thing you'll probably be convinced he's not), The method he describes in detail is very effective.


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Edited by Spokesman (02/26/04 01:23 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2379763 - 02/26/04 03:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A quick question for you proponents. And answer honestly WITHOUT looking it up! Pilot Kenneth Arnold, spotted the objects in the 1940s from which the modern term 'flying saucers" was derived.

What was the shape of the objects he observed?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Spokesman]
    #2379771 - 02/26/04 03:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Your going to tell me that just because their are Science-Fiction movies out there, it means that their aren't movies based on real life?

I propose nothing of the sort. I already stated that without knowledge of the artist's intent and the cultural reference, one cannot tell when he is painting photo-realistically or symbolically.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2379791 - 02/26/04 03:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Let me ask you once again about this painting from the 1700's....

I have no idea other than it is apparently some "supernatural" light source. There is nothing that is indicative of E.T. inhabitants or origin.

As the artists was not there when Christ was born, the painting MUST be interpretive and not photo-realistic, no?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2379796 - 02/26/04 03:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

theres about 15 pictures there that show flying objects that look uncannily like modern ufos

See my question on "modern UFOs". I have no idea what UFOs look like as all I have ever seen were hoaxed photos.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2379908 - 02/26/04 04:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know what shape the craft that Arnold saw.

As far as the painting of Jesus and the flying saucer go, it's not that i'm saying they guy saw the scene of Jesus on the cross with the flying saucer flying by. My question is: what in the world inspired him to draw that, and what inspires all of these people to draw the same basic images?




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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2379948 - 02/26/04 04:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Regarding the picture: they look like sombreros. Perhaps the aliens were Mexicans.

My question is: what in the world inspired him to draw that, and what inspires all of these people to draw the same basic images?

Kenneth Arnold spotted V-winged shaped craft that "skipped like saucers". As the hoaxsters apparently had reading comprehension problems, almost all of the photos from that date forward were "saucer-shaped" BECAUSE of the description.

Also worthy of note: there were no alien visitations from Greys in the '50s (they had yet to be depicted in popular culture). Almost all were tall, quite humanoid, Nordic-looking blonde men and women. Don't hear of those any more.


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2380016 - 02/26/04 04:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I guess we just see thing differently then guy.





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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2380932 - 02/26/04 09:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah someone's flying a kite on that one, lol.
It's not an intellectual discussion once you realize that the person is predetermined to shut down all evidence and ideas with comments and questions so irrelevant to the topic that one wonders what was the topic to begin with. Anyway i think we all realized that if someone has shut a subject out of their spectrum of reality as bad as Swami does it's useless to try and convince them of any other possibility. And a true skeptic is born, unfortunetly i wish he could back up his theories a little better than saying UFO's are crowns and that all sightings after Arnold's are a hoax. But no one could have convinced Hitler that he was wrong right??

Therefore, since im not getting any new info off this now useless thread im not going to reply anymore or even check this thread at that. Have a nice discussion guys.


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Edited by Spokesman (02/26/04 09:44 PM)


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2381343 - 02/26/04 11:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)


astronauts know.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/02/18/Neighborhoodtimes/Astronaut__We_ve_had_.shtml

Astronaut: We've had visitors

The sixth man to walk on the moon shares his unconventional views.

By WAVENEY ANN MOORE, Times Staff Writer
Published February 18, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ST. PETERSBURG -

The aliens have landed.

Thus declared Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell on Saturday to more than 200 admirers.

"A few insiders know the truth . . . and are studying the bodies that have been discovered," said Mitchell, who was the sixth man to walk on the moon.

Mitchell, who landed on the moon with Alan B. Shepard, said a "cabal" of insiders stopped briefing presidents about extraterrestrials after President Kennedy.

For those who might consider his statements farfetched, Mitchell, who has a doctorate in science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, noted that 30 years ago it was accepted that man was alone in the universe. Few people believe that now, he said.

Besides aliens, Mitchell talked about being freed of prostate cancer during a healing ceremony and his epiphany while returning from the moon.

"I had an opportunity to be a tourist," he said, going on to speak about the sensation he felt as he watched the Earth, moon and sun.

Raised as a Southern Baptist, Mitchell said his feeling of interconnectedness could not be explained by traditional religion alone. He later founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences.

On its Web site, the California organization says it conducts and sponsors "leading-edge research into the potentials and powers of consciousness" and that it explores "phenomena that do not necessarily fit conventional scientific models, while maintaining a commitment to scientific rigor."

The site also states that IONS, as it is known by members, is not a spiritual sect, political action group or single-cause institute.

Saturday afternoon, dozens of people made their way through rain to hear Mitchell and IONS president James O'Dea speak at the Heritage Holiday Inn in downtown St. Petersburg.

Lisa Raphael, a member of IONS who describes herself as a transformational holistic healer, said she was pleased to hear Mitchell's comments.

"Personally, what was most delightful to me was that he was more open than he has ever been, very direct about knowing that there are other forms of intelligent life in the universe and most probably that they have been here," said Ms. Raphael.

[Last modified February 18, 2004, 01:31:43]


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2381971 - 02/27/04 04:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Regarding the picture: they look like sombreros. Perhaps the aliens were Mexicans.

My question is: what in the world inspired him to draw that, and what inspires all of these people to draw the same basic images?

Kenneth Arnold spotted V-winged shaped craft that "skipped like saucers". As the hoaxsters apparently had reading comprehension problems, almost all of the photos from that date forward were "saucer-shaped" BECAUSE of the description.

Also worthy of note: there were no alien visitations from Greys in the '50s (they had yet to be depicted in popular culture). Almost all were tall, quite humanoid, Nordic-looking blonde men and women. Don't hear of those any more.




1. Wether or not the craft were V-shaped and media mis-interpretation is errelevant, the fact is craft were witnessed.

2. Untrue. This is just a another UFO rumor and is without any evidence, the majority of sightings, throughout time/culture are bulbous headed beings.

It is us that is altering what we see to fit our mentality. The aliens are abducting people but the people will only recall in a way that is acceptable to them.

Just like, how you alter logic until it becomes acceptable to you pre-existing pattern, Swami.

Given the nature of phenomena it is unlikely that events will be easily recalled. The 'victim' is likely to be highly traumatised. We all know that at the incident of a crime, witnesses, can report completely different races of persons or colour clothes but thats not to say the crime didn't take place, right?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Ego Death]
    #2383212 - 02/27/04 02:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The aliens are abducting people but the people will only recall in a way that is acceptable to them.

Several million people are allegedly abducted, yet none are ever noticed to be missing. Sounds like a dream and NOT a kidnapping. (Please: no Travis Walton reference.)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2383500 - 02/27/04 03:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

None of the three million abductees were noticed to have been gone?





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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Learyfan]
    #2383603 - 02/27/04 04:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

excerpt from Abduction by Aliens or Sleep Paralysis? by Susan Blackman

The Roper Poll

The claim that 3.7 million Americans have been abducted was based on a Roper Poll conducted between July and September 1991 and published in 1992. The authors were Budd Hopkins, a painter and sculptor; David Jacobs, a historian; and Ron Westrum, a sociologist (Hopkins, Jacobs, and Westrum 1992). In its introduction John Mack, professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, claimed that hundreds of thousands of American men, women, and children may have experienced UFO abductions and that many of them suffered from distress when mental health professionals tried to fit their experiences into familiar psychiatric categories. Clinicians, he said, should learn "to recognize the most common symptoms and indications in the patient or client's history that they are dealing with an abduction case" (8). These indications included seeing lights, waking up paralyzed with a sense of presence, and experiences of flying and missing time. The report was published privately and mailed to nearly one hundred thousand psychiatrists, psychologists, and other mental health professionals encouraging them to "be open to the possibility that something exists or is happening to their clients which, in our traditional Western framework, cannot or should not be" (8).
The Roper Organization provides a service for other questions to be tacked on to their own regular polls. In this case, 5,947 adults (a representative sample) were given a card listing eleven experiences and were asked to say whether each had happened to them more than twice, once or twice, or never. The experiences (and percentage of respondents reporting having had the experience at least once) included: seeing a ghost (11 percent), seeing and dreaming about UFOs (7 percent and 5 percent), and leaving the body (14 percent). Most important were the five "indicator experiences": 1) "Waking up paralyzed with a sense of a strange person or presence or something else in the room" (18 percent); 2) "Feeling that you were actually flying through the air although you didn't know why or how" (10 percent); 3) "Experiencing a period of time of an hour or more, in which you were apparently lost, but you could not remember why, or where you had been" (13 percent); 4) "Seeing unusual lights or balls of light in a room without knowing what was causing them, or where they came from" (8 percent); and 5) "Finding puzzling scars on your body and neither you nor anyone else remembering how you received them or where you got them" (8 percent).

The authors decided that "when a respondent answers `yes' to at least four of these five indicator questions, there is a strong possibility that individual is a UFO abductee." The only justification given is that Hopkins and Jacobs worked with nearly five hundred abductees over a period of seventeen years. They noticed that many of their abductees reported these experiences and jumped to the conclusion that people who have four or more of the experiences are likely to be abductees.

From there, the stunning conclusion of the Roper Poll was reached. Out of the 5,947 people interviewed, 119 (or 2 percent) had four or five of the indicators. Since the population represented by the sample was 185 million, the total number was 3.7 million -- hence the conclusion that nearly four million Americans have been abducted by aliens.

Why did they not simply ask a question like, "Have you ever been abducted by aliens?"? (Swami comment: Because that would make sense and get straight to the point while bypassing layers of assumption?!) They argue that this would not reveal the true extent of abduction experiences since many people only remember them after therapy or hypnosis.


In summation, 119 people had symptoms that Budd Hopkins assumed to be abduction and this was extroplated to be 3.7 million Americans. There were no questions or comments about family members noticing the "abducted" person to to be physically missing from some expected place (like in bed at night).


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: Swami]
    #2383791 - 02/27/04 05:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Here is a book one shouldd read. already mentioned.


Edited by mabus (02/27/04 05:42 PM)


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OfflineAtomisk
all forms areself awareness

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 164
Loc: jungle of love
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Evidence of UFO's V2 [Re: mabus]
    #2384669 - 02/27/04 09:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i've always wondered if some of the astronauts took a hallucinagen while drifting through space on the way home.


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


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