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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7325388 -

Was the sarchasm too wide for you to span?  :wink:

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Veritas]
    #7325399 -

It would take a 'leap of faith' to bridge that chasm.


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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7325404 -

Guess you're SOL, then.  :lol:

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: whattheheck]
    #7325423 -

whattheheck said:
Your post was hard to understand. I'm a hater? And I acknowledged that you do feel that way, and I respect that. Truly. I don't see how any man can judge another, and I believe that they in fact cannot. So I don't even try. Besides, who cares? All I hope for out of ANYONE is that they learn to love themselves and others in a true manner. For some reason, most of mainstream Christianity got this wrong somewhere.

Sorry if I offended you or came off hating. Not my gig.

Love conquers all.

Peace


and certainly HATE many of the things I used to enjoy.

To quote from your post.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: kimikiri]
    #7325443 -

think the point I was trying to convey is that we are all sinners

Who's we white man?

I am not a sinner at all. That's you and your religions negative label that is used to turn loving humans into guilty suffering sheep.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Diploid]
    #7325559 -

Yes, I do know the "true" way. For me. And shouldn't we all know what path we are on at any given time? Again, every day I learn more about the path for ME and those that are brought into my life. From the girl at Taco Bell to my children, I do believe there is a way for me to treat THEM, and not vice versa. And the path I'm talking about is love. So yeah I guess you could say that I know MY path, and that is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control.

And of course this sounds like a bible thumping, but come on, those values were around before somebody wrote them down in a certain order for the "bible" a few thousand years ago, so we can't just throw out the idea that walking that path is crap because for most of our known time, people have used "the bible, the church, ect" to hurt others.

So I guess what I'm asking is, IF a person was dedicated to growing in these areas, seeking out where their courage to be truly decent failed them and trying again, and ALL of the rest of the religious stuff besides personal praying, getting together with others who share the same beliefs and were living the same life, and of course doing our best to love and give to our family, friends, neighbors and communities, I honestly must ask where the problem with that lies?

Even Christ rebuked them that all of their religious traditions had become more important than the God they claimed to worship, or the people they were called to love.

Again, please accept that I accept you and the path that you walk. How do I know what road you've walked or what you've been through? And even if I did, that wouldn't give me access to the true contents of your soul, and I wouldn't want it to. I have enough issues with me. And the only way I can make the world better, is to focus on the war in ME.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: whattheheck]
    #7325610 -

Yes, I do know the "true" way. For me.

I would never ague that point. But that's not what you said:

Quote:
For some reason, most of mainstream Christianity got this wrong somewhere.


I read that as you thinking you know better than the Christians because they went wrong and presumably you did not.

I honestly must ask where the problem with that lies?

The problem lies in the same place it does with ALL faith in the not-evidenced when it thinks it's flavor of faith is better than any other.

Suicide bombers think they're doing God own work when they blow themselves up in a crowd of kids.

The pope thinks he's following God's instructions when he tells millions of starving people in the third world to have more children because that's God's command.

And you think you're doing God's work when you thump your bible.

Again, all of you base your ideas on faith in something that is not in evidence. Good for you if that's what floats your boat, but don't try to pass it off as if your way is right and "Christianity got this wrong somewhere".


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Diploid]
    #7325637 -

Not so much. The anger of the Christian God and his feelings about "sin" have been horribly lied about and for some reason accepted by a masochistic public who from all angles I can see must WANT a God to be mad at them.

I don't blame ANYONE for being pissed or even hating the God that gets portrayed out of most churches. But that God does not, and has never existed. But I do meet a LOT of Christians who seem to want Him to. I think a lot of them LOVE the idea of them being good to go and want to see gays, people on welfare, Muslims, illegal aliens, whatever, "get theirs".

So don't worry, I have ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH, NO problems with your beliefs. I have problems with THEIRS. What am I supposed to do, hold you to a standard that you don't believe in? Maybe for the others, but it sounds evil AND foolish to me.

It says that to the pure man everything is pure. We can only be accountable for what we understand. Or else we have to conclude that God created billions of people who were dead meat from day one because they "never called on the name of Jesus" or "prayed to be forgiven for their sins". I doubt it.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Icelander]
    #7325696 -

Nice catch. Thanks, I was at the end of the day and I could tell I wansn't getting the point. I do not hate where I've been and what I've done as it pertains to me. It's the pain that I caused others, especially those who love me that I am saddened by if I focus on it too long, but I am forgiving myself. I've hurt myself too, a lot, yet that was my choice. I am truly sorry for the others.

So it's not really the actions so much as the inner hatred, the painful and sick struggle that produced those actions.

I do hate murder, rape, molestation, ANYTHING involving children, and things of that nature. But the rest? Who am I to judge at this point?


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

Edited by whattheheck (08/23/07 02:49 PM)

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: whattheheck]
    #7325702 -

NO problems with your beliefs. I have problems with THEIRS

Right. Once again, because YOUR beliefs are genuine and their beliefs are lacking.

Except that they say the same thing about you, and we're back where we started. :shrug:

It's this "my God is better than your God" that creates suicide bombers, wars, oppression, moronic drug laws, and all the rest.

Your religious elitism is as bad as any other and it's a direct result of faith.

If we all dropped the bullshit of faith and believed only things with objective reality, all the faith-caused misery in the world would vanish. Instead of wasting resources making weapons to combat 'those heathens' we might have cured cancer and solved hunger by now.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Diploid]
    #7325745 -

I disagree with you. I think what is happening here is that I do not believe that my eternal personal beliefs should be projected into the public arena. I don't walk around asking what any religion can do for the world, but what can love do to and for me that I may better serve the world, and in the end, myself. I approach it backwards. Trust me, I get hit harder in Christian circles, for the most part, than I do in the Shroomery.

And please do NOT lump me in with a group of people who use their "faith" to justify ANY type of pain, anywhere or at any time.

But you are right. If the whole "faith" thing was gone, so would the suicide bombers. But so would many truly great advances in humanity.

It's not faith, hope and love that is the problem. It's fear, hate, and guilt that drives this crap. But carrying that banner openly won't get you into "paradise" with your 50 virgins, and it won't get you elected. But the truth is evident.

I'll ask you this though. Say I AM a bit blind. If through my pursuit of developing the 9 characteristics has by all accounts helped me to truly change, is that a bad thing? Aren't we all looking through a fuzzy looking glass?

With respect...


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Diploid]
    #7325764 -

You don't find that claiming to have the Christian God of love living in you, to claim that you have been forgiven your "sins" (their words) and accepting that our rule is to love others as yourself, and then hating other races, gays, ect. You don't see where a fellow Christian should have problems with their beliefs, as a Christian? Why shouldn't I? See it's backwards. I look at nobody outside the Church, I am told not to. Not because we're not allowed to, but because we can't. Any why would anyone want to is my question.

And sadly, the blanket comment of we would all be better off without our faith is clearly not true. In my case and in many others whom I personally know.

What we could do without is the aggressive and perverted "triumphalism" fundamental "faith" that dominates.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: whattheheck]
    #7325833 -

You don't see where a fellow Christian should have problems with their beliefs, as a Christian? Why shouldn't I?

If you believe what you say you believe, why do you care what others who disagree with you believe?

You're as bad as a militant Muslim. You're not happy until everyone agrees with you.

Say I AM a bit blind. If through my pursuit of developing the 9 characteristics

You silly. There are only 7 characteristics, 15 on Thursdays. Clearly you're not on the right path. :rofl:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: whattheheck]
    #7326089 -

Quote:
But so would many truly great advances in humanity.



Such as? What great advances have we made that are based upon religious faith?

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Veritas]
    #7326141 -

Crucification?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Veritas]
    #7326295 -

Inquisitions?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Diploid]
    #7326348 -

Let's not forget stained-glass windows!  :grin:

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Veritas]
    #7326385 -

Alter boys.:ass:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Icelander]
    #7326829 -

I always thought you were a closet priest.


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Re: Faith... In a world that makes no sense... [Re: Veritas]
    #7327576 -

Because I am a CHRISTIAN, and it's what I am TOLD to do. Do you have no respect for those who follow their path? If you're on the Chicago Bulls, you are SUPPOSED to care what other Chicago Bulls do. But the other teams? Why would you even consider what they do?

I raise my children the way I want, and I disagree with what many people do, but I respect their choices, as long as they are not openly hurting the child. How else is there to do it??

You're argument and accusations of who and what I am are off. I could care LESS what anyone besides my wife, my children, and my God think.

And I mean that.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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