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The philosophy behind extremist Islam
    #7223525 -

I don't get it...I mean, I get it at the start, in that their children are brainwashed to kill as a martyr under the name of Allah, and I can forgive them for that, in a way, they know no different...but still, is it just because I am human that I feel much more anger and resentment towards the treatment of this religion than I do other religions?

Please, don't go into the history of the religions to prove a point that one is worse than others...I am talking about the present day representation of the major religions, in which it seems pretty obvious that extremist Islam is the most violent and intolerant.

Why is it that I catch myself so often thinking so negatively towards Islam (extremists)? It's not just that the media panders to this, I am able to sift through the media sensationalism, I have done my own research on my own terms, and I consistently find many more examples of how horrible Islam has been in recent years comparatively to others.

I want someone to help me turn the other cheek here, because as it is, as I am going to put it bluntly, I just don't trust most Muslims.

I hope this can be kept civil, as I feel that I have presented this in the most honest and open way I felt possible, and I hope people can appreciate that. I WANT to be convinced.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7223541 -

I want someone to help me turn the other cheek here,

I can help.:ass:

Or as they say in the ads. Just do it!


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7223548 -

I don't trust most of them either because of their religion.
I also don't really trust many other people if they follow a religion.

You should probably be weary of anyone that follows a (organized) religion.


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Sometimes when I read threads visions of men sword fighting with their genitalia run through my head. - sadspacemonkey

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7223552 -

i don't think Nike can help me here...this goes much deeper than just accepting something on blind faith. I feel something terrible building up amongst the world against Muslims, I don't want to see the religion of Islam harmed as a whole, but for Pete's sake, when these terrorist attacks occur, where are the non-confrontational/moderate Muslims at to disavow what the extremists are doing?!

I just don't see it, and that scares me.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: DistortedEyes]
    #7223558 -

DistortedEyes said:
I don't trust most of them either because of their religion.
I also don't really trust many other people if they follow a religion.

You should probably be weary of anyone that follows a (organized) religion.


dammit, you make fantastic points  :smile:

i guess i can just have varying levels of distrust...?


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7223615 -

yes I'd say there are varying levels of distrust, i distrust Muslims more than Christians for example, i think so anyway, when i think about it I'm not sure which i trust less since i feel strongly about how ridiculous both their religious concepts are.

Christians do fucked up things but they are not really terrorists so i might distrust Muslims more, though you could call Christians terrorists too if you consider all the stuff they say about going to hell and suffering forever, wouldn't that terrorize children?

I think we have good reason to not trust Muslims, they have people in their religion killing people and if this was wrong to them then why don't we see lots of Muslims say they don't condone the behaviour of the terrorist Muslims?


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Sometimes when I read threads visions of men sword fighting with their genitalia run through my head. - sadspacemonkey

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: DistortedEyes]
    #7223633 -

DistortedEyes said:
I think we have good reason to not trust Muslims, they have people in their religion killing people and if this was wrong to them then why don't we see lots of Muslims say they don't condone the behaviour of the terrorist Muslims?


yes, that is the point that i keep getting caught up on. i almost feel like the whole division between moderate and extremist muslims doesn't exist, merely one group just hasn't broken out of their shell yet...

i mean, doesn't Islam instruct that you follow it the whole way or not at all? how do any Muslims consider themselves true believers if they don't take the Koran literally? same goes for christians or any other dogmatically text-based religions.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7223649 -

damn, religions are fucked up but i think we have a really dangerous one on our hands now, because it may be true that they are all the same and haven't broken out of their shells.

I see no point in living life, if all you do is follow a book on how to be/live.


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Sometimes when I read threads visions of men sword fighting with their genitalia run through my head. - sadspacemonkey

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: DistortedEyes]
    #7223657 -

DistortedEyes said:
damn, religions are fucked up but i think we have a really dangerous one on our hands now, because it may be true that they are all the same and haven't broken out of their shells.

I see no point in living life, if all you do is follow a book on how to be/live.


while i agree, you also have to look at it from their point of view. they are raised from infants to blindly follow this religion. and that is dangerous, but can the individuals really be blamed? i would like to think that we all have ultimate control over our choices and our personal journey, and that we should be able to tell right from wrong, but when your moral/ethical base is built from childhood on killing those who don't think they way you do...i just dunno anymore.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7223675 -

Quote:
in which it seems pretty obvious that extremist Islam is the most violent and intolerant


Some 300,000 to 600,000 dead civilians in Iraq at the hands of Christians - and that is just recently. I don't see anything obvious at all.

Islamic brain-washing / Christian brainwashing: same-same.

Homemade suicide bomb vs. multi-zillion dollar F14 jetfighter with laser-guided missiles or Warthogs with cluster bombs: same-same.

Islamic beheadings vs. shipping prisoners to countries where torture is legal: same-same.


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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7223683 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
in which it seems pretty obvious that extremist Islam is the most violent and intolerant


Some 300,000 to 600,000 dead civilians in Iraq at the hands of Christians - and that is just recently. I don't see anything obvious at all.

Islamic brain-washing / Christian brainwashing: same-same.

Homemade suicide bomb vs. multi-zillion dollar F14 jetfighter with laser-guied mnissiles or Warthogs with cluster bombs: same-same.

Isalmic beheadings vs. shipping prisoners to countries where torture is legal: same-same.


all true


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Sometimes when I read threads visions of men sword fighting with their genitalia run through my head. - sadspacemonkey

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7223687 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
in which it seems pretty obvious that extremist Islam is the most violent and intolerant


Some 300,000 to 600,000 dead civilians in Iraq at the hands of Christians - and that is just recently. I don't see anything obvious at all.

Islamic brain-washing / Christian brainwashing: same-same.

Homemade suicide bomb vs. multi-zillion dollar F14 jetfighter with laser-guied mnissiles or Warthogs with cluster bombs: same-same.

Isalmic beheadings vs. shipping prisoners to countries where torture is legal: same-same.


you jump to the conclusion that the US is christian in intention. are we over there converting? no. are we over there killing them if they don't convert? no. how do you know that some of those US troops killing Islamic fundamentalists aren't muslim themselves or buddhist or hindu?


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7223747 -

Quote:
you jump to the conclusion that the US is christian in intention


Hmmm, conclusion jumping...

Bush: I am a Christian and God told me to invade Iraq.

Largest number of war supporters in Congress at the outset: Republicans

Largest Republican constituency & monetary base: conservative Christians

Seems like basic math to me.


Quote:
are we over there converting?


Hmmm. let's see: depose their leader, set up Western style government, build bases and half a billion on an Embassy. No conversion going on there?

You say to disregard history? Why is that? Christian missionaries have been fucking up cultures for millenia. And of course, we must disregard The Crusades because you want to cherry pick which actions do and do not fit your ideas.


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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7223771 -

Quote:
Bush: I am a Christian and God told me to invade Iraq.


i could tell instantly where this was going...

Quote:
You say to disregard history? Why is that? Christian missionaries have been fucking up cultures for millenia. And of course, we must disregard The Crusades because you want to cherry pick which actions do and do not fit your ideas.


"Please, don't go into the history of the religions to prove a point that one is worse than others...I am talking about the present day representation of the major religions, in which it seems pretty obvious that extremist Islam is the most violent and intolerant."

that is what i said, and i didn't want to disregard it for the sake of omitting the information that it can present. i just wanted to focus on the present situation and my personal views towards it (extremist Islam).

you are dodging my questions here, this isn't about Christianity vs Islam, I know all about the negative sides to organized religion as a whole, trust me. Don't pull the old fashioned: well, Christianity is just as bad as Islam, so why trash on Islam? Well, because at this moment in time, I am choosing to, that's why.

if we can't stay true to what i was wanting to discuss and keep this civil, then we might as well stop here...?


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7224804 -

Islam is a bit special for three reasons:
  • Islam's holy scripture is not seen as just divinely inspired, it is supposed to be the literal word of God and therefore perfect forever and in all details. Including the gory parts.
  • Islam teaches a version of the "Golden Rule" that only extends to other muslims, not all people.
  • Islamic law prescribes the death penalty for muslims who leave Islam.
Taken together, these three things tend to exaggerate any attitude problems that might be present among followers.

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Rhizoid]
    #7225297 -

> Islam's holy scripture is not seen as just divinely inspired, it is supposed to be the literal word of God

I have heard many, many Christians describe the Bible as the literal word of God.

> Islam teaches a version of the "Golden Rule" that only extends to other muslims, not all people

In Christianity, only those that have been baptised and have accepted Jesus into their hearts are saved from ultimate damnation while other people are not.

> Islamic law prescribes the death penalty for muslims who leave Islam

Ok, you got me on this one. (I suppose I could go way out there and claim that the burning of witches and the like relate Christianity to this, but I wont, as it is a flimsy argument at best...)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: DistortedEyes]
    #7225394 -

DistortedEyes said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
in which it seems pretty obvious that extremist Islam is the most violent and intolerant


Some 300,000 to 600,000 dead civilians in Iraq at the hands of Christians - and that is just recently. I don't see anything obvious at all.

Islamic brain-washing / Christian brainwashing: same-same.

Homemade suicide bomb vs. multi-zillion dollar F14 jetfighter with laser-guied mnissiles or Warthogs with cluster bombs: same-same.

Isalmic beheadings vs. shipping prisoners to countries where torture is legal: same-same.


all true


For once I actually completely agree with you Swami. :thumbup:


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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Syle]
    #7225997 -

Contemplate the following view:

1) You have been repeatedly attacked by a militarily superior force. The sons and daughters of your people have been slaughtered, often not even in honorable battle but by fire from the sky.

2) Western society is a plague, a blight consuming the earth. It brings hollow materialism, capitalist slavery, and cultural annihilation. Yes, freedom of speech is wonderful, but look what we have chosen to utter: McDonalds, strip mines and bombs. YOUR WAY OF LIFE IS BEING DESTROYED.

3) The invading force is not just the Western governments, but the people. Because they continue their behavior of consumption and destruction, then justify this through ignorance of their government's activity. They let the government/corporate conglomerates do the dirty work that enables their avarice; they are thus complicit.

I am NOT saying I endorse this view or the actions of extremists. I am NOT saying that one side or the other has some moral superiority. I AM saying, it would be more enlightening to spend a day understanding this world view than to spend a day poking holes in it.

:peace::heart:

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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: FollowTheMusic]
    #7226167 -

Quote:
I AM saying, it would be more enlightening to spend a day understanding this world view than to spend a day poking holes in it.



Amen.

The day of 9/11 I was as saddened and as horrified as most Americans, but I seemed to be alone in my sentiment of asking, "What would drive these men to do such a desperate act?" instead of "Why are these men so evil?"

Understanding will solve more problems than any bloodletting ever will.


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Re: The philosophy behind extremist Islam [Re: Seuss]
    #7226192 -

Seuss said:
I have heard many, many Christians describe the Bible as the literal word of God.


I thought this thread wasn't about Christianity, but I'll bite anyway: how many leaders of mainstream Christian churches claim that for example the Old Testament or the Pauline Epistles are the literal word of God? I bet they are a very small minority. In Islam, it is the standard creed that the Quran is the literal word of God. I'll get back to how this affects followers with attitude problems.

Quote:
In Christianity, only those that have been baptised and have accepted Jesus into their hearts are saved from ultimate damnation while other people are not.


Yes, but that is supposed to happen in the so-called afterlife. The golden rule affects how people behave against each other, in the world of the living.

Quote:
Ok, you got me on this one. (I suppose I could go way out there and claim that the burning of witches and the like relate Christianity to this, but I wont, as it is a flimsy argument at best...)


The problem is that Islam has a long tradition of conflating apostasy from religion with treason against the state. This is not an issue with any other major religion today.

My point is that the three things I mentioned make it harder for strict islamic societies to adopt to new circumstances, compared to most other types of societies in the modern world. The built-in dogma that the Quran is the literal (and final) word of God, makes it extra difficult for e.g. islamic law to evolve away from its barbaric roots. The absence of the golden rule reduces solidarity with non-muslims. The death penalty for apostasy stifles cross-breeding of ideas: if people avoid provoking or dismissing islamic dogmas because they fear for their lives, intellectual development grinds to a halt.

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