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astral projection? *DELETED*
    #6730825 -

Post deleted by trip2night

Reason for deletion: ...


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Re: astral projection? [Re: trip2night]
    #6730828 -

Lucid dreams are trippy! :tongue:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: astral projection? *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #6730834 -

Post deleted by trip2night

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Re: astral projection? [Re: trip2night]
    #6730851 -

It was almost certainly a lucid dream.

Although many people have claimed to astral project, it has never been the case that astral projection could be confirmed in a controlled, scientific study where some object is placed in the next room or on the roof and the 'projector' was able to identify what it was.

I've had these dreams myself, but when I thought back carefully the next day, I realized that there were inconsistencies and discrepancies suggesting dream, not projection.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: astral projection? *DELETED* [Re: Diploid]
    #6730908 -

Post deleted by trip2night

Reason for deletion: ...


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Re: astral projection? [Re: trip2night]
    #6730956 -

So what you are saying is you do not believe in obes

I'm saying that OBEs have never been confirmed even though people have been claiming to have OBEs for centuries, and scientists have been trying to confirm them for decades.

If there was something to them, someone would have been able to conclusively demonstrate it by telling a researcher what test object is in the next room. What's found during these tests is that the person who claims OBEs can never identify the object.

It's a simple test that anyone who REALLY DOES astral project should be able to pass, but no one ever has.

This doesn't disprove OBEs, but it sure makes a reasonable person doubt them, as I do.

And if not then what is astral projection for you?

The Out Of Body Experience has a medically described, confirmable, and repeatable neurological origin; in other words, it's all in your head and the feeling that you're 'astral traveling' is all imagination.

There is a region in the brain called the Angular Gyrus (AG). It's located in the parietal lobe (top-back) of the brain near where the sense of balance is processed. The AG is larger in hominids than in other primates. It's involved in language processing and particularly in the comprehension of metaphors.

The relationship to OBEs was first found while treating a woman for epilepsy in the 1990s. To localize the source of the patient's seizures, doctors at the University Hospitals of Geneva and Lausanne in Switzerland implanted electrodes in the patient's brain. With the patient awake and her skull opened, they probed her brain with the electrodes to map the pathology and try to cure her.

When they probed inside her AG, she reported sensations including "sinking into the bed", "falling from a height", "seeing myself lying in bed from above", "floating", and all the other sensations people who claim OBEs report.

It's believed that electrical stimulation of the AG causes these sensations because it disrupts the ability of the brain to process and integrate the sense of touch and the signals from the semi-circular structures in the inner ear used for balance.

It's important to realize that this effect was repeatable and has since been confirmed in other people. A full blown OBE can be deliberately induced by simply stimulating a person's AG, but whether the OBE occurs naturally or is medically induced, it remains the case that no one can describe the test object in the next room.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: astral projection? [Re: trip2night]
    #6730976 -

I agree with Diploid to an extent. Astral projection and lucid dreams are the same. Astral projection is just a type of lucid dream. The methods for inducing them are the same even. Does that mean that real information...either factually based or symbolic...is not gathered during the experience? No. They are...as all lucid dreams are...valid sources of information. BUT that information has to be interpreted appropriately to use it.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: astral projection? *DELETED* [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6730995 -

Post deleted by trip2night

Reason for deletion: ...


Edited by trip2night (03/31/07 07:56 AM)

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Re: astral projection? [Re: trip2night]
    #6731111 -

And here is the other side of the medal:
A documentary about secret services and military using remote viewing/viewers:
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=7371160296945984442&q=secret

I don't know why the 'viewers' don't went to Randi with that :shrug:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: astral projection? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6731146 -

I don't know why the 'viewers' don't went to Randi with that

Because after decades of trying and much money spent, the military found that there was nothing to it.

This is why North Korea was able to develop nuclear weapons while the U.S. paid them them huge sums of money under a treaty in which they agreed no to do that.

It wasn't until they admitted they were reneging on the treaty that the U.S. stopped sending them money, and it wasn't until they blew up an actual bomb that the U.S. became certain they had.

As for the "Stargate Project" and similar projects funded by the CIA, one result found that the test subjects scored 5%-15% above chance. This was a significant finding... until it was discovered that a flaw in the experimental protocol had slewed the results by including subtle clues in the data given the judging subjects. Clues like reference to "yesterday's target" and the date the test took place, and so on.

Again, these were subtle clues, but enough to invalidate the results without anyone being overtly aware that they were being influenced by them. When the tests were run again with the clues removed, the 5%-15% above chance findings disappeared, and the experimental result was null.

This only goes to show how easily even well-meaning and diligent researchers can accidentally fool themselves when an experimental protocol is improperly designed.

The CIA realized they'd given it a good try, but there was nothing there to discover. They canceled the last of the funding shortly after.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: astral projection? [Re: Diploid]
    #6731171 -

Hehe, the Koreans surely used anti-remote psychics, or found out other ways to shield their activities :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: astral projection? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6731188 -

Sneaky those Koreans! :evil:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: astral projection? *DELETED* [Re: trip2night]
    #6731285 -

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: astral projection? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6731298 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Astral projection and lucid dreams are the same. Astral projection is just a type of lucid dream. The methods for inducing them are the same even. Does that mean that real information...either factually based or symbolic...is not gathered during the experience? No. They are...as all lucid dreams are...valid sources of information.


:thumbup:

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Re: astral projection? *DELETED* [Re: soulcircus]
    #6731301 -

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: astral projection? [Re: soulcircus]
    #6731327 -

soulcircus said:
iv had lucid dreams where iv thought, hmm, i might have to live here now im too conscious to go back to my body lol


Yeah, that happens to me too. I found a technique to abort a lucid dream though: sit down on the ground crosslegged, and try to meditate. I've tried it a few times now and it always makes me wake up.

Also, I recommend taking 3mg of melatonin before bed for an easy way to induce lucid dreams.

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Re: astral projection? [Re: Diploid]
    #6731342 -

Quote:
The CIA realized they'd given it a good try, but there was nothing there to discover. They canceled the last of the funding shortly after.


Or they found out how to do it by their own to work well, and founded an even more secret project :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: astral projection? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6731347 -

Many other organizations, including several universities, have conducted similar experiments. No one has found anything at all.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: astral projection? [Re: trip2night]
    #6732295 -

Lucid dreaming is pretty trippy, but I wouldn't really call lucid dreaming and OBEs the same thing. From what I understand of it lucid dreaming is simply being aware that you are in a dream state. OBEs on the other hand are when your astral form leaves your physical body.

In my opinion OBEs exist, and if you do find you are able to leave your body just remember to be careful. In some cases people have not been able to get back to their body. This could be brought on by their body being moved from where it was left, once this happens it's almost impossible to find your body again.

I have never had an OBE, so all this information I'm relaying is from people who I know who claim to be able to leave their body. So I'm not sure of the reliability of this information.


--------------------
Listen to the trees and they will tell you the gypsy's story...

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Re: astral projection? [Re: Diploid]
    #6732342 -

Hehe, yes you are right on this of course.
There is no public accessible 'scientific' proof available, yet.
I only hope that further researches stay in public, and don't go into the secret military underground again...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (03/31/07 05:47 PM)

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