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 MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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 Re: western society disables evolution  [Re: Icelander]
#6178807 - 10/17/06 02:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with technology. It's how people choose to use or misuse it.
Very few people actually create technology. The rest are just sheepishly using it according to the dictates of the programmers.
Like the kid who buys a fast car and thinks he's especially special because he can push his foot down hard on the gas pedal. Did he design that car? He certainly wants credit. He couldn't survive a week alone in nature most likely. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (10/17/06 02:12 PM)
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 IamHungry
Stranger
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Posts: 220
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
#6181703 - 10/18/06 09:16 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:We tend not to consider this for ourselves. We like to think we are the goal.
And that's the problem. Many people in the West don't believe evolution even occurs. Somehow, everything in the world is exactly the same as when our grandparents were our age. 
Maybe the problem is that our technological evolution is proceeding way too fast. There is much profit to be had in the technological evolution of mankind, while the spiritual side of (Christian right-wingers, or the stereotypical idiots who for some reason make the important decisions in this society) Westerners believe that the natural world is not a process at all. Talib Kweli illustrates it perfectly when he says "We commute to computers; spirits stay mute while your ego spreads rumors."
Apparently human beings are perfect and there is no work to be done to protect and preserve that which allowed us to survive. The only thing that is important is that time=money.
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Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...
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absinthe_tek
Ex-cultivator
Registered: 10/11/06
Posts: 27
Loc: USA
Last seen: 17 years, 28 days
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Not all genetic variation helps, especially if it is a debilitating trait. For instance, thousands of years ago myopic people would not last long as hunters and usually a human with that sporadic trait would not pass it on, or any of his traits for that matter. Now we can just wear glasses to correct it and actually would not absolutely need to. There are other traits that are obviously not beneficial. Nuerofibromatosis? Proteus syndrome? Its a long stretch to try an imagine the elephant mans genetic make-up as somehow beneficial.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: IamHungry]
#6181892 - 10/18/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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You could be right. Good post.
We commute to computers; spirits stay mute while your ego spreads rumors." Great quote. I immediately thought of the Shroomery.  Although it really applys to commerce on computer.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (10/18/06 10:10 AM)
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: secretmachine]
#6184285 - 10/18/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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To come to this point in history, natural selection has been at play for billions of years. It seems in the short term that the human race is making itself weaker, letting all the impaired, disabled and useless survive, devoting precious resources to helping them live out their feeble lives. But this is all in the short-term.
Now, humanity is at a turning point, where we can influence our own genetics and our own bodies. We can make ourselves better than the flaws and chaotic mutations of nature through our ability to alter genetics and combine the power of technology and computers with the human body.
Transhumanism will play an increasingly important role in the 21st century. Evolution via natural selection has taken us this far- now it is up to us to explore the territory that random mutations never could've reached.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: absinthe_tek]
#6184427 - 10/18/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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The genotypes that are ultimately not fit to survive still don't, but the standard of fitness has been considerably lowered. Bad eye-sight may have prevented you from passing on your genes to future generations in the past, but the environment no longer demands this of us. I think the primary fallacy of the "Western society prevents evolution" theory is that it compares our current genetic makeup to the environment of thousands of years ago. What matters is whether or not a gene can perpetuate itself in the present environment.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: 
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Genetic variation doesn't hinder the evolution of a population, it aids it.
Agreed.
Look at how some "physically disabled" people have helped to evolve our society.
Stephen Hawking comes to mind as the most recent. Didn't we have a president that had polio? According to secretmachine these people should have been killed at birth or left to fend off wild animals on their own.
Our Physical evolution has slowed down. There are still some minor physical evolution to go thru. (the loss of all body hair is already happening)
We are gearing up for a huge intellectual and spiritual evolution next.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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slaphappy
Its just me
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: niteowl]
#6185208 - 10/19/06 06:10 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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But its a possibility that we'll fuck it up before that by brainwashing our children for 12 years, subject them to addictive poisons of the civilization, have them believe that they are forced to sustain their addiction in order to have a normal life, making them miss out on the whole spiritual movement in order to sit inside watching survivor, and then this universe starts an inevitable spiral down towards annihilation with our ignorant numb and dumb selves still on it.
Quit your dayjob.
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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
 
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Paramemetic
Emergent
Registered: 09/19/06
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: slaphappy]
#6185386 - 10/19/06 08:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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A tad cynical, are we?
The trappings of civilziation do not hinder the progress of the species because the species does not require every mind in order to perpetuate or improve itself - progress is made by those with the desire and ability to do so; and those with said desire and ability are not often held back by the trappings of civilization.
As for people debating whether or not genetic variation helps - any and all genetic variation helps because evolutionarily speaking, mutation is the only way the species can develop new traits. As genetic variation increases, the number of potential genes increases. This allows for selection. Natural selection requires options. Undesirable traits (theoretically) work themselves out.
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"Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr
"The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
#6185408 - 10/19/06 08:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paramemetic said:
The trappings of civilziation do not hinder the progress of the species because the species does not require every mind in order to perpetuate or improve itself - progress is made by those with the desire and ability to do so; and those with said desire and ability are not often held back by the trappings of civilization.
Exactly, and I think that those who center themselves around the negative aspects of civilization and continue to focus and address it aren't dedicating themselves to developing themselves and initiating progress.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: slaphappy]
#6185427 - 10/19/06 08:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
slaphappy said:
But its a possibility that we'll fuck it up before that by brainwashing our children for 12 years, subject them to addictive poisons of the civilization, have them believe that they are forced to sustain their addiction in order to have a normal life, making them miss out on the whole spiritual movement in order to sit inside watching survivor, and then this universe starts an inevitable spiral down towards annihilation with our ignorant numb and dumb selves still on it.
Quit your dayjob.
There are no preferences in the Tao. Yet you can have a preference and try to act on it.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: fireworks_god]
#6185430 - 10/19/06 08:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Paramemetic said:
The trappings of civilziation do not hinder the progress of the species because the species does not require every mind in order to perpetuate or improve itself - progress is made by those with the desire and ability to do so; and those with said desire and ability are not often held back by the trappings of civilization.
Exactly, and I think that those who center themselves around the negative aspects of civilization and continue to focus and address it aren't dedicating themselves to developing themselves and initiating progress.
I agree with both of you.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
#6185434 - 10/19/06 08:30 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree with you on that.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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ShamanSoul
Just Strange
Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 21
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
#6207021 - 10/24/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't claim to have knowledge of the actual speed of evolution, If thats all you were disagreeing with. I speak mainly from my experiences. Science and statistics tend to disect pure ideas into little understandable pieces, that is just one way that perspective limits people to others ideas of what is. Science has many measurements and categories but it is far behind what previous cultures already have known about the universe which science is now starting to understand and allow room for new ideas beyond our current physical laws. It is the natural flow that has healed me and brought me to my understandings. Perhaps it is the scientific objective perspective that makes you disregard what I beleive.
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It is the Time for War, and my weapon is LoVe...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: ShamanSoul]
#6207056 - 10/24/06 04:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I disregard it because there is no evidence for it that I can see.
Humanity has been pretty unchanged emotionally for all of written history as far as I can tell. AND Each generation there are those who think we are on the verge of an emotional/spiritual revolution. If you check it out it never happens to the extent they had predicted if at all.
So there is just no evidence for your beliefs that might sway me. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying there is no real evidence for it. I would love to be surprised though.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soulcircus
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 1,300
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Re: western society disables evolution *DELETED* [Re: secretmachine]
#6207083 - 10/24/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by soulcircusReason for deletion: .
Edited by soulcircus (10/24/06 04:39 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: soulcircus]
#6207155 - 10/24/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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That which is presently occuring is the process of evolution.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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slaphappy
Its just me
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: fireworks_god]
#6209229 - 10/25/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think we are bright enough to consciously evolve by now. Thats the spiritual revolution, imho.
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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: slaphappy]
#6209939 - 10/25/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Being bright has not much to do with whether we spiritually evolve or not.
And I hadn't noticed any spiritual revolution in the masses.
Business as usual for the human race.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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