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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Drug Use in Modern Society
    #2716056 - 05/22/04 10:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I was originally going to say "Post industrial" soceity rather than western, but tobacco is pre-industrial i guess. And i don't really know what the hell i'm really talking about anyways.. but here:

Indian cultures and various tribal cultures around the world used drugs. Mushrooms and plants mostly. Whether they smoked it, ate it, made a tea, etc..

But these drugs had a purpose. Maybe it was spiritual, maybe it had some medicinal value (or at least they thought it did).

But from what i read, drug abuse in itself has only been a staple of modern or western society. Using drugs merely to get fucked up, using them merely to escape the world, using them as a crutch for emotional problems, or a symbolism for childish rebellion. One great big "fuck you system.. ".

Indians smoked tobacco throughout their entire history, without managing to do to it what western society did. They never added extra nicotine or other chemicals. They weren't smoking 20 cigarretes a day...

What is it about this society, that has been distorted, what has been lost, that these substances no longer have a purpose. Where one side (authority) claims they are awful for society, and the other side ( users) abuse them or merely use them without some form of truly meaningful purpose (well when compared to yester eras).

I know many today still use substances to enhance spirituality, but i find they are far and few. There's also alot of copycats who say they do but dont. but that's a whole 'nother topic.

Only a modern post industrial society would design a drug such as crack. No spiritual culture would ever find a purpose of any kind in a drug like that, nor a positive use for it.

So what is it about this society that focuses on abuse, addiction, doing it without a truer purpose so to speak? Is it affects of stress the modern world places on people?

Is it the want for easy entertainment? is it our need for escapsim? Why has religion gotten away from heightened states of awareness using plants, fungi, etc.. as a catalyst?


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2716095 - 05/22/04 10:25 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

$


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: CleverName]
    #2716164 - 05/22/04 10:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

^
i'll agree to a degree. But what drives the illegal drug industry is supply and demand. Demand is the source of it. And money is flowing out of the pockets on that end, not in. So what makes that end want that?

I'll even say the same for those who grow or mushroom hunt. Why do we merely get "fucked up" rather than using it as a catalyst for something "higher" so to speak...


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2716171 - 05/22/04 10:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Drug abuse happens when you introduce a new drug to a culture which does not have a cultural context in which to use it. The Native Americans did not have much(if any) nicotine addiction because they had a cultural context in which to use tobacco, and thus treated the plant with respect. Europeans had been using alcohol for thousands of years, and thus had a high tolerance for it, and alcoholism was(and still is) rather low amongst them. When these two cultures came in contact, they were exposed to each other's drugs, and today many whites are addicted to cigarettes while alcoholism is rampant among Native Americans. You'll find similar patterns with many cultures. The Spanish were first introduced to cocaine when they found the Inca chewing on coca leaves, allowing them to work strenuously for long periods of time without getting tired. It's all about cultural context.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: silversoul7]
    #2716230 - 05/22/04 10:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

controll.

take sugar and caffine for example. and FLOURIDE


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


Edited by BleaK (05/22/04 10:43 PM)


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2716657 - 05/22/04 11:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Partially because nowadays, people have a spiritual void to fill. Others before us had a purpose in life, and entheogens made them see their purpose from a higher perspective.

Nowadays, anything to dump into that big spot in the middle of our chest where it feels like something's missing works fine. Though it is not only us... it has happened before, throughout time. The Chinese had a severe opium problem for some of the same reasons. It's a fundamental flaw with society, and so we replace the more spiritual drugs like LSD and mushrooms with meth and crack and, most abundantly, alcohol. Nowadays it's going to be much easier to go out and find some pills, or some H, or some alcohol especially, instead of some mushrooms, or some mescaline, or LSD. Drugs form to their society, and in a society where we want to forget and rebel, alcohol fits perfectly, along with other spiritually harmful drugs


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinegotmagog
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2717522 - 05/23/04 06:56 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, good points here, I agree with most of them.

If one lives a meaningless life even he does not like, and can't help it, he may get heroine or alcohol, and feel temporarily good and forget the misery, he won't enjoy mushrooms, because they may show him the awful truth and scare him, and it takes courage and strength to face problems and analyze them.

It is so much easier to get drunk and have some "fun" breaking things and being stupid, or shoot heroine and lie down enjoying the high, than to try to be spiritual with hallucingens and follow a ritual or technique.

Another bad thing with this is that the drugs, which in my opinion have a potential for good for society, like mushrooms, weed, and other nonaddicting stuff, get a bad name from "evil" stuff like meth, crack and heroine. People usually are ignorant not to make subtle differences (or at least those with power are), so they see a crack addict and decide all drug users are bad, war against all of them.


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2717570 - 05/23/04 08:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with what your saying. Drugs are a HUGE part of our culture (probably even all cultures for that matter) whether people care to see it like this or not..Western society is a sugar, caffeine, tobacco, fast food and alcohol consuming kind of culture. The main reason obviously being, to maintain control. The government wants to keep the population at bay, so they outlaw certain drug preferences (starting with those awfuly threatening mentally boundary dissolving substances..) while convinently suggesting certain addictive forms of what they deem appropriate are socially acceptable, so the majority of the population will continue to go about their lives, mindlessly going to work everyday, happily paying their taxes, without ever seeing a reason to stop and ask themselves if what they are doing with their lives actually makes sense.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: ekomstop]
    #2718752 - 05/23/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

".Western society is a sugar, caffeine, tobacco, fast food and alcohol consuming kind of culture. The main reason obviously being, to maintain control."

obviously! because we all know the government controls all bussiness and marketing. Its not like...tobbacco and caffiene or alcohol are enjoyable drugs that make peoples lives better, therefor being a natural part of our society!

example: when me and a friend go grab a coffee and have a discussion, we are actually being covertly controlled by the government! its not as if coffee is a great conversational stimulant....ehhhhhhhhh???????

okay, I'll stop with the obscene sarcasm. However, I do believe your theory has more holes in it than albert hall.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: Positronius]
    #2718769 - 05/23/04 04:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
".Western society is a sugar, caffeine, tobacco, fast food and alcohol consuming kind of culture. The main reason obviously being, to maintain control."

obviously! because we all know the government controls all bussiness and marketing. Its not like...tobbacco and caffiene or alcohol are enjoyable drugs that make peoples lives better, therefor being a natural part of our society!

example: when me and a friend go grab a coffee and have a discussion, we are actually being covertly controlled by the government! its not as if coffee is a great conversational stimulant....ehhhhhhhhh???????

okay, I'll stop with the obscene sarcasm. However, I do believe your theory has more holes in it than albert hall.




why do u drink coffee?


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: BleaK]
    #2718774 - 05/23/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Because I enjoy the stimulus it provides, and I love the taste, also...it has a certain ritualistic quality.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: Positronius]
    #2718929 - 05/23/04 05:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
Because I enjoy the stimulus it provides, and I love the taste, also...it has a certain ritualistic quality.




mmmm stimulus, dare u to go a week without it.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinepsikooz
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: BleaK]
    #2718954 - 05/23/04 05:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The "drugs" that our legal and widely used are drugs that support the current system. Caffeine gives people energy so they can wake up at 5 am commute to there job and do a decent job. Alchohol is for when you get home and are all pissed off, so you have a couple beers and all the anger is washed away. Untill the next day when you wake up drink your coffee goto work and so on.

Tobacco is abused in the same way, it stimulates people so they preform there function, whateever it might be.

That is why hallucingens arent legal, they show people whats going on and allow them to think outside of there everyday routine. If they were legal, people would stop giving into the system and there would be a revolution, just like there was in the 60's, untill the government banned LSD and all other hallucinogens.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: psikooz]
    #2718981 - 05/23/04 05:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)


That is why hallucingens arent legal, they show people whats going on and allow them to think outside of there everyday routine. If they were legal, people would stop giving into the system and there would be a revolution, just like there was in the 60's, untill the government banned LSD and all other hallucinogens.



---riiiiight. I dont really qualify a bunch of hippies getting stoned as a "revoultion", but thats just me. And the fact that it changed nothing supports my belief. Cultural movement? yes. Revolution....no.

A real revolution requires hard work, logical thought, a deep understanding of politics and economics. Which is something that the average acid-head isnt (and wasnt) up to.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: Positronius]
    #2719001 - 05/23/04 05:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:

That is why hallucingens arent legal, they show people whats going on and allow them to think outside of there everyday routine. If they were legal, people would stop giving into the system and there would be a revolution, just like there was in the 60's, untill the government banned LSD and all other hallucinogens.



---riiiiight. I dont really qualify a bunch of hippies getting stoned as a "revoultion", but thats just me. And the fact that it changed nothing supports my belief. Cultural movement? yes. Revolution....no.

A real revolution requires hard work, logical thought, a deep understanding of politics and economics. Which is something that the average acid-head isnt (and wasnt) up to.




bullshit, a revolution is a change. that requires no intelligence.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: BleaK]
    #2719016 - 05/23/04 05:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

bullshit, a revolution is a change. that requires no intelligence.

-examples? what are we talking about? I thought we were talking about political and cultural upheavel. I guess I was wrong, okay, I'll play your game, lets talk about non-existant pseudo-revolutionary fantasies.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinepsikooz
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: Positronius]
    #2719673 - 05/23/04 08:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

A revolution only takes a handfull of intelligent people to be the leaders, people just have to follow.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2719892 - 05/23/04 09:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

About our currently culturally accepted drugs; just because some white-collar coffee-zombie uses caffeine to stay focused and productive while doing numbingly boring work doesn't necessarily mean that caffeine is an individuality-suppressing substance. I'm a bit of a teaist and I've found a good cup of real tea can be an immensely positive, thought-provoking and calming thing. It's more when substances are consumed with no thought or ritual or anything that they can be consumed to an extent that they become detrimental to the individual. Go and shove a cheeseburger into your face and your missing the spiritual aspect of food that you'd get with preparing and cooking your own meal. Same with sucking down a cuppa joe on your way to work to force your mind into wakefulness when it would much rather be dozing. The context in which the substances are consumed has more of an effect than the drugs themselves, perhaps. I'm sure there are ignorant and mind-dulling ways to consume psychedelics. Alright, they do lend themselves to self-exploration more than coffee, sure, it's hard to argue against that. But just because some substances like alcohol and caffeine get misused doesn't necessarily make them 'bad' in and of themselves.


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Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: Panoramix]
    #2720382 - 05/23/04 10:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

" I'm sure there are ignorant and mind-dulling ways to consume psychedelics. Alright, they do lend themselves to self-exploration more than coffee, sure, it's hard to argue against that. But just because some substances like alcohol and caffeine get misused doesn't necessarily make them 'bad' in and of themselves."

I believe that psychedelics are just as wisely "misused" if by used you mean...to experience something that could be considered "spiritual. But...I also think riding on the bus drinking a coffee could be just as "spiritual" as eating mushrooms in a forest.

"A revolution only takes a handfull of intelligent people to be the leaders, people just have to follow."

yes, a handfull of intelligent people with a deep understanding of politics and economics.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Drug Use in Modern Society [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2720868 - 05/24/04 12:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

On another note, too many hallucingeons/psychedelics would allow people to be just as easily controlled....there's a balance. Psychedelics can also be used for sheer escapism as well ya know...


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