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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1854282 - 08/27/03 11:25 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Here is the Seuss diet... easy to follow and it works wonders:

1) Eat whatever you want. Don't pay attention to calories, etc. If you want some cake or ice cream, go for it. Try to eat healthy, but don't kill yourself trying to avoid certain foods.

2) Eat all the time. Do not wait between meals, or only eat three square meals a day. Instead snack all the time. Healthy snacks are better.

3) Do not eat very much at any one time. This is very important. You want to eat all the time, but never very much at any one time. No eating huge meals until you are stuffed or you ruin the diet. You must eat small portions... even if it means leaving food on your plate. It is much better to eat four six-inch subs spaced out over the day than to eat all four in one sitting and nothing until dinner.

4) Exercise helps, but isn't required. Jumping rope for just a few minutes about 20 minutes before you eat is a great start.

5) Give yourself time to see results. This is a long term change in habits sort of diet, not a rollercoaster I fit into the dress today sort of diet.


The history of the above. I am thinner than most match sticks, but I have had housemates that were on the larger end of the scale. One of them asked me how I stay so thin when I am always eating. I had never really thought about it, so we started to pay attention to when and how much I ate. Based on our observations we came up with the above diet. I only have two samples (people that have tried it), but both were positive. The first one lost around 30 pounds total, at a rate of about five pounds a month. The second lost around 50 pounds total at the same rate. Both kept the weight off, didn't do massive exercise, didn't count calories, etc.

The key seems to be not eating large meals, rather lots and lots of little snacks spread out though the day. A handul of crackers here, a bite of fruit there.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1889025 - 09/06/03 07:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I myself weigh over 250lbs.

My father and two of his siblings weigh over 250lbs.

My grandmother weighed over 250lbs.

My grannies mother weighed over 250lbs.

The mother of my grannies mother was taken by her parents to the public floggings and the brandings on the town square when she was a kid and she was over 250lbs too.

Genetic lack of willpower? I don't think so. The human race started agriculture about 6.000 years ago. Until then (say 50.000-100.000 years straight)our ancestors ate mostly fats and protein. After agriculture kicked in the carb count went up, way up. The last 100 years or so the carbohydrate intake exploded, as did the cardiovascular diseases and diabetes.

It is a fact that every country that adopts a high-sugar, high-starch diet (western lifestyle) the cardiovascular and diabetic problems multiply in correlation with the rise in carbohydrate intake.

When you eat carbs your body produces insulin to process it. Let's say you eat a bigass plate of french fries... It contains say 400 kcal of carbohydrates, some 300 kcal of fats and some protein.
You get an energy boost off of the carbs for like 2-4 hours and a slow burn is supplied by the fats until say 4-8 hours after eating it.

Not so with over 9 out of 10 (truely) obese people. They eat the 700kcal meal. Due to the carbohydrates the bloodsugar rises, just like in any body. But then it happens: Insulin overproduction occurs.
BAM! You eat and instead of going up your bloodsugar goes DOWN because Insulin overproduction pulls it out of the bloodstream. Where does it go? Well: some 20 grams of FAT are made out of those 100 grams of starches, and this is not burned but tucked away in your fatty tissues.

So a (truely) obese person eats the 700 kcal meal. What is the net result? Instead of burning those 700 calories a whopping 180 + 300 = 480 calories go to the fat reserve, 220 calories are actually USED and within an hour or so you are hungry again because you ATE 700 kcal but only GOT TO USE some 220 of them.

The hunger that strikes the truely obese within 1/2-1 1/2 hours is every bit as real as anybody's hunger because he ATE a full plate of fries but his body only lets him USE 1/3 of it and used the rest to distort his body.

The body of a truely obese person is every bit as disfigured as that of somebody with a half-sized arm: It is genetics dysmorphing the template of a healthy body. It is just more common. If somebody was born without eyes it would be rude to joke: "Hahah! cant see me can you? you stupid no-eyes!!" but because obesity is more common it is considered to liken their bodies and eating habits to that of pigs, to torment them with claiming they have no willpower etc. etc. just like they do to the disfigured in countries were leprosy is common.

Show a 6 year old kid a picture of an obese kid and ask what he thinks that kid is like. I promise you're in for one of the worst shocks of your life! Every prejudice is already laid into them.

And in the mean time over 95% of obese people remain obese for the major part of their lives. And anorexics starve themselves to death because they are right in noticing being considered fat is a major social disdadvantage.

Well: scratch those carbs and replace them with fats and proteins you might ironically say. This is precisely what the low-carbohydrate diet is based on. You eat MORE fat (meat, fish, eggs, fowl, mayonnaise, butter etc.), as much as you like in fact. Your appetite drops multifold and you lose weight like you were on a starvation diet.

And all the while you're well-fed and your blood cholesterol is DOWN as well as your triglycerides. So you eat alot of hard, saturated fats and unsaturated oils and yet you lose weight, are never hungry and are in better health then you were before!

The most well-known of these diets is the Dr. Atkins Diet. www.atkinscenter.com Currently long-term studies of these kinds of diets are in progress. Perhaps in 10 years or so it will be the diet reccomended to the obese instead of (more) starvation, because until now there are no indications that it is anything but healthier than the calorie-restricted diet.

I have never reached my old weight again.


.


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Anonymous

Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Asante]
    #1889237 - 09/06/03 08:59 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

the atkins diet is crap. to understand the atkins diet, you need to understand the three potential sources of energy in the human diet. these are carbohydrates, fats, and protein.

CARBS- all of that beef that dr. atkins has with carbs... much of it is well-founded. the problem is that he hasn't made any distinction between the radically different classes of carbs, those being on the wide spectrum between carbs with a high glycemic index and those with a low glycemic index.

the glycemic index is a measurement of how quickly certain carbohydrate foods raise ones blood suger. you've heard the terms "simple carb" and "complex carb" before... carbs with a high glycemic index are your simple carbs. they are the ones sending your blood sugar and insulin levels on a crazy rollercoaster. they are your refined flour, sugars, and starches.

foods with a low glycemic index are a very valuable source of energy. they're the best fuel for your body to run on. vegetables, and many fruits contain low-glycemic index carbs. these foods are very good for you not just for the vitamins and minerals they contain, but for the quality carbohydrate. low-glycemic index carbs are the single best source of energy for your body. they 'burn' smoothly and cleanly.

the atkins diet does not make any distinctions between the wide spectrum of carbs (that's just as far as i know... if it simply calls for a reduction in classic *carbohydrate foods* [read: simple carbs: refined flour, sugar, starches] then that's good).

FATS- fats are not a terrible energy source, but they tend to get packed away instead of burned. they are a little harder for your body to use as fuel.

there are 3 classes of fats. polyunsaturated, monounsaturated, and saturated. all fats are a blend of the three. polyunsaturated fats are carcinogenic, and saturated fats clog your arteries. the only healthy kind of fat is monounsaturated. it's abundant in fish oil, olive oil, and canola oil. a certain amount of fat is needed in the diet, but it definitely should not be used as a major source of energy.

PROTEIN- we're all aware that protein is used for building tissues in the body. when the body doesn't have enough carbs or fat to burn, it can also turn to protein as a last resort for energy.

protein is not a clean-burning fuel. unlike fats and carbs, it contains nitrogen, which is troublesome to eliminate from the body. it must be filtered out by the liver and kidneys, then flushed out in urine. eating alot of protein and not enough carbs is hard on your liver and kidneys and causes you to lose water.

the atkins diet exploits protein as a fuel source, which is terribly unhealthy. much of the weight lost by people on the atkins diet is water from excessive urination, and it's also nasty on the kidneys and liver.

TO SUM IT ALL UP- avoid high-glycemic index carb foods, but get plenty low-index ones. eat a little fat, and make it primarily monounsaturated fat. don't go overboard on protein. the only thing your body should be doing with it is using it to build tissue.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: ]
    #1890232 - 09/07/03 04:00 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Actually the Dr. Atkins diet takes glycemic index in account, as well as sugars that do not trigger an insulin response (like sugar alcohols)

Simple carb/complex carb is also taken into account.

"..polyunsaturated fats are carcinogenic, and saturated fats clog your arteries." Wel that's simply put! It is healthy to have all three in the diet, but in their right proportions. In the right proportions the polys are indeed very healthy. Saturated fats clog up your arteries? My, my, my! Most all fats that enter the body are converted to palmitin and stearin (the rock-hard fats they make candles of) as the hard fats are the primary fuels of the fat reserve.
As for clogging up your arteries: They do no such thing!

High triglycerides in the blood (high fat content) cause seperation of fats. The triglyceride x LDL x HDL cholesterols are the holy grail of predicting cardiovascular disease and the general clogging of arteries. high lipids are basically the equivalent of oversupplying with a fuel: akin to pumping gas into your car and letting it overflow. With the dr. Atkins diet you use up your lipids faster than you eat them: Yes you eat MORE fats but your body almost exclusively runs on them, and the net result is your blood lipids are MUCH LOWER than before you started.

Indeed the atkins diet causes some weight loss due to losing a few liters of water. But losing twenty, fifty, a hundred pounds of water?

The low-carbohydrate diet seems in fact so healthy that if the long-term results match those of the 5 years of study done thus far the American Heart Association wil recommend it as the primary diet for obesity. Studies up until now show nothing but a health advantage over either being (very) obese or losing weight the starvation way.


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OfflineClover
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Asante]
    #1946478 - 09/24/03 01:26 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The key to any healthy approach to eating is balance. Too much or too little of any food perpetuates an unhealthy eating pattern. While the food pyramid is not the end-all, be-all of food intake resources and guides, it certainly demostrates balance in consumption.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1946514 - 09/24/03 01:38 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)



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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1946533 - 09/24/03 01:47 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

To get back to the original question raised for a moment, of course there is a ton of pressure (no pun intended) on overweight people from society. Now if you've seen my picture on Adamist's recent Pub picture thread, you can probably tell I'm relatively skinny. When you get down to it, it's mostly genetics. And when it's not, how are we to tell? In short ( no slight towards short people) we just can't judge. But.. having said that there is no accounting for taste, and people are attracted to different body types for reasons that go beyond morality.









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Offlinewhole9
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1946821 - 09/24/03 03:52 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

more cushin for the pushin! =] lol jk. but in all seriousness its none of our business. :\ thats just the way I feel. if you feel like you personally need to change then thats fine, but dont make others change just becuase you want to change. or somthing like that..


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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: whole9]
    #1946935 - 09/24/03 05:15 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

fast people are such whiners. some sappy people consider it a disease. theres absolutly no excuse for it the only person to blame is the lard cake. so if it is a fatal disease. i dont see anorexics whining that societys pressuring them to gain weight.

fat people are fucking disgusting. i mean really i cant think of many thing more disgusting and ive seen a woman with mushrooms growing on her feet.  its very important to be in good physical shape and thats why everyone hates fattys. at least theyll probably die very young so we'll never haf to look at them again. :smile:

oh and im talking about chronicly obese people. theres nothing wrong with a little bit of extra weight cuz it gives you extra strength for crushing skulls and what not.


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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1946939 - 09/24/03 05:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

heh i was a bit to harsh. but i really think very fat people shhould sort themselves out. ill try to justify it a bit!

the way people live. in the cirty and shit. you can get by without being fit. im one of those people like the dudes above. i eat like as fucking pig and never gain any weight. buut im very active. i like running through the woods, jumping around, fighting. we may not need it but its damn good to be strong. feels good being able to pick up heavy shi t you know?

i got a dim view of humans an i look a t us in evolutionary terms. i mean if a cave man or some one in ages past was so fat he couldnt run hed get hit over the head and eaten. our sole two reasons for existing are to fight each other and have sex with as many women as possible. obese dudes are horrible at both of those things.

and that my friends is why i hate fat people so much.
VOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: whole9]
    #1946965 - 09/24/03 06:18 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whole9 said:
more cushin for the pushin! =] lol jk. but in all seriousness its none of our business. :\ thats just the way I feel. if you feel like you personally need to change then thats fine, but dont make others change just becuase you want to change. or somthing like that.. 




I don't personally need to change. I don't have much fat on me at all, although my stomach and ass are just a bit bigger than they need to be. I didn't say anything about wanting to make others change or that they should. That isn't what this is about.

What this is about is how unhealthy it is to remain obese. Check out that flood analogy that I mentioned above. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1947143 - 09/24/03 08:46 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Lazerouth wrote (among other things):


""fat people are such whiners. some sappy people consider it a disease. theres absolutly no excuse for it the only person to blame is the lard cake. so if it is a fatal disease. i dont see anorexics whining that societys pressuring them to gain weight.

fat people are fucking disgusting. i mean really i cant think of many thing more disgusting and ive seen a woman with mushrooms growing on her feet. its very important to be in good physical shape and thats why everyone hates fattys. at least theyll probably die very young so we'll never haf to look at them again.

i got a dim view of humans an i look a t us in evolutionary terms. i mean if a cave man or some one in ages past was so fat he couldnt run hed get hit over the head and eaten. our sole two reasons for existing are to fight each other and have sex with as many women as possible. obese dudes are horrible at both of those things.

and that my friends is why i hate fat people so much. ""



Being chronically obese and having lost my grandmother to obesity-related diseases I take high offence at this.

It is your antisocial kind, dear sir, that was culled or banished from the tribes of old. I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes shaking with anger and am filled with disgust because of your casual remarks.

Yesterday I scattered the ashes of my mother. Today I come to the Shroomery for some solace and find some antisocial asshole like you calling me and half of my family WHINERS,LARDCAKES, FUCKING DISGUSTING and that you delight in seeing al of us dying very young.

You, kind sir, never have seriously dealt with real people because if you did you would not have gotten away with points of view like you have.

It is modern society and the seeming independence of others that allows opinions like yours to breed and multiply and that cultivates highly disagreeable web personas with exploding-head avatars who think they can crap all over whole societal groups wishing them a quick death and such.

What you have spewed is not an opinion, it is hatred solidified in binary code to be read by hundreds of people, many of whom are themselves chronically obese and some of whom will indeed die before their time.

I do not know the person behind the exploding head avatar but the hateful persona called lazerouth would not be allowed to exist in the tribes of old because they seriously undermine group cohesion, which is a life or death issue in hunter-gatherer tribes.

as for your statement: ""our sole two reasons for existing are to fight each other and have sex with as many women as possible."" I am wondering what the fuck you are doing in Spir & Phil.

Your remarks regarding chronically obese people may seem general to you, but they in fact are highly personal insults to each and every person suffering from this affliction.


I feel very, very hurt by your words and they have cast a shadow over this already horrible day. I am deeply disgusted by your statements and seeming point of view. This is not a flame, this is my way of expressing that your hatered of me (due to my physical shape) is hereby met with a deep loathing from me to you (because of your spiritual/philosophical stance) and that your desire to see me die young (I will die young as a matter of fact because of a purely genetic malformation of my coronary arteries totally unrelated to obesity) hereby is met by the same sentiments. In fact, I'd like an MPEG of yours because it might make an avatar that is equally funny as the one you display.

Thanks a lot for gunning down my last shred of hope for this day and for plunging me back into the hellhole I just managed to crawl out of. You cannot possibly imagine what hurt you have caused me and all this because you're grabbing the internet opportunity of anonimity to take a dump on troubled people who have never done anything wrong towards you.


THANK YOU FOR MAKING ME FEEL LIKE SHIT.
THANK YOU FOR COMPLETELY RUINING THIS DAY FOR ME.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COWARDLY ANONYMOUS ATTACK ON ME AND MY LOVED ONES.



(Mod: please don't delete this post. I was not protected against his vicious attack by moderation so please do not protect him from the consequences of his actions. I won't regret these words.)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Asante]
    #1947162 - 09/24/03 09:03 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
THANK YOU FOR MAKING ME FEEL LIKE SHIT.
THANK YOU FOR COMPLETELY RUINING THIS DAY FOR ME.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COWARDLY ANONYMOUS ATTACK ON ME AND MY LOVED ONES.




How can anyone or anything make you feel like shit? Yeah, what he said wasn't in the best of taste. But what he said, some anonymous guy on an Internet forum, has completely ruined your day? If it seriously has, you are too dependant on outside conditions shaping your inner state of mind... I mean, I feel terrible for your loss and everything, but what some guy in some forum that wasn't even directed at you should not ruin your day.

Quote:


It is modern society and the seeming independence of others that allows opinions like yours to breed and multiply and that cultivates highly disagreeable web personas with exploding-head avatars who think they can crap all over whole societal groups wishing them a quick death and such.
quote]

I didn't realize that having free will was so bad.. whatever he decides do with his time is his choice. Is having the freedom of will to blame for what people do with free will? Nah, don't think so... It is the person themselves that are responsible for their words and actions. You might not agree with his words, I may not agree with them, but he decided to say them and he had the choice to do so... he hasn't harmed anyone, either, if anyone took offense by his words, they are the ones who chose to take offense.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but it is the truth. I have been insulted a lot, directly, but it never ruined my day. It made me start to wonder how someone could actually get off by trying to degrade someone else, but it never degraded me because I didn't let it. So what, some guy said something bad to me. I have more important things to concern myself with. Concern yourslelf with what you want..
Peace.



--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1947191 - 09/24/03 09:24 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I realize of course that some people are genetically dispositioned to be fat but is that an excuse to eat a huge mayonnaise sandwich before you go to bed or to down eight dough-nuts between meals?
All the fat people i know eat enormous amounts of food. Of course they will be hungry as hell when they cut down on calories but the human body will adjust so lack off willpower is a big factor.

I'm thin but in great shape. I complained about being to thin and not being able to put on weight. Then i started lifting weights and force feeding myself and i added 10kilos faster then thought was possible.
Maybe i should have just complained about my genes.





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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1947296 - 09/24/03 10:42 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

errrrrm yeeaaahh riigght.

its just the internet. since when did interntet opinions matter? i don't hate anyone. is just when you have to use 2 chairs to sit down anf you have 4 chins you got a problem.

im actually a nice guy. i was s just coming back to delete it for my fat friend but i leave it now cuz your silly..

dont kill yourself okay?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1947381 - 09/24/03 11:38 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lazerouth said:
errrrrm yeeaaahh riigght.

its just the internet. since when did interntet opinions matter? i don't hate anyone. is just when you have to use 2 chairs to sit down anf you have 4 chins you got a problem.

im actually a nice guy. i was s just coming back to delete it for my fat friend but i leave it now cuz your silly..

dont kill yourself okay?




Man, there are forum rules and such, though, I wouldn't suggest crossing those lines...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1947424 - 09/24/03 11:58 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'll admit for some people like me it is EXTREMLY hard to lose weight, but the best way to start is to know that you and yourself is resposible for the problem, stop blaming it on McDonalds.

Also i think fat kids dont get made fun of enough in the U.S. Man where i grew up i got made fun of harshly everyday, why are these kids getting it so easy? No wonder America is full of fat teenagers, no ones making fun of them! Why lose weight.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Spokesman]
    #1947488 - 09/24/03 12:29 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

> No wonder America is full of fat teenagers, no ones making fun of them!

Nah, we are full of fat kids because parents have turned the job of raising their children over to the television. Most kids idea of exercise is getting up to change the game in their playstation.

> I'll admit for some people like me it is EXTREMLY hard to lose weight

Some people are not meant to be thin, or even average. I have friends that are overweight, their families are overweight, it is genetics. No matter how much exercise they do, or how little they eat, they are going to be big.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 17 days, 9 hours
Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Spokesman]
    #1947502 - 09/24/03 12:35 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Also i think fat kids dont get made fun of enough in the U.S. Man where i grew up i got made fun of harshly everyday, why are these kids getting it so easy?



There's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!

--Pink Floyd



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OfflineAsanteA
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 77,604
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1947995 - 09/24/03 02:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm..

The thought that you're actually a nice guy must be really comforting to you. I disagree on this because nice guys, even if if they're conviced they are right, tend to post a different kind of reply to the things said than what you just did.

I have had many encounters with disagreeable people. I have seen a lot of opinions on just about anything that I find questionable, especially on the internet where just about anything goes.

Your original post I reacted on was one thing, but your subsequent response and PM have quite frankly amazed me.
But I guess you think that's silly too.

This is not a matter of lacking social skills on your behalf, your response strikes me as structurally unsound.


Please steer clear of any postings and threads I write and I will do likewise. We are truely incompatible.


.


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