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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3184371 - 09/27/04 12:33 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

yet again, what does "we have lost our connection to nature and just because we are out among trees,woods,etc this doesnt mean we are back in touch with nature and our tribal/primitive self or have suddenly reconnected to nature. " have to do with the jonestown massacre?


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Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3184375 - 09/27/04 12:35 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

hey heu, lay down a booklist. I was trying to make a string with cedar fiber the other day with no information, and it didn't work too well. I wanna learn to make strings and ropes from whatever, some simple bow stuff would be sweet, especially if I could make a weapon lethal enough for grouse and quail, the shelter thing I got down, so yeah.. what books do I need to get?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3184385 - 09/27/04 12:36 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

he did lay down a booklist actually, although only after i pointed out that none of the stuff he was talking about could be done without learning from someone who already knows


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Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3184391 - 09/27/04 12:39 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I got those I wonder if there are more.


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
Two Spirited

Registered: 08/12/04
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3184401 - 09/27/04 12:41 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

He is saying when we lose touch with nature we lose touch with the sacredness of life.When we do this we take killing for granted and as a meaningless thing.Today we kill over a few dollars.Our tribal ancestors would kill only if absolutely neccessary.Such as defense food etc.(Cannibals/headhunters excluded though these peopl;e never ever took like as petty like we do today.He also is saying that when we lose touch with nature we become misguided severely.


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Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3184411 - 09/27/04 12:43 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

that i can agree with thank you for clearing it up.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3184438 - 09/27/04 12:51 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

"The Traditional Bowyer's Bible" I  II and III is all you need for archery related stuff.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search...9930539-7303827

for survival read "Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search...9930539-7303827

That should keep you busy. I take squirrels and rabbits with my bow frequently.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3184445 - 09/27/04 12:54 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

i mean for survival in my native canada, up in the whiteshell, i dont need any books of any kind. I simply need a rifle, some bullets and a car. The deer all congregate by the roads for safety from wolves. SImply go out at night, freeze em in the headlights and shoot em in the head. You could bag a whole herd of deer in one night, which would feed you for a lifetime. Fish can be caught by throwing a lure of the shore. Its ridiculous really, the edible biomass their is just crazy.

But no one cares about that.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3184452 - 09/27/04 12:57 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

"i mean for survival in my native canada, up in the whiteshell, i dont need any books of any kind. I simply need a rifle, some bullets and a car. The deer all congregate by the roads for safety from wolves. SImply go out at night, freeze em in the headlights and shoot em in the head."

That is not "post-apocalyptic" survival. It is poaching.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3184453 - 09/27/04 12:57 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Our tribal ancestors would kill only if absolutely neccessary.
Not true. The waorani people, an amazonian tribe that resisted outsiders until the 1960s (basically by butchering anybody who tried to contact them) killed eachother for no reason at all. They were a tiny population with a huge territorry, they had food, they had everything they needed, but they liked stabbing eachother with spears. In the seventies an anthropologist had been living with them for a number of years collecting data. Over the past 5 generations 54% of the men and %40 of the women had died from a fellow tribesman's spear, and 20% had been killed by outsiders or had run away from all the butchery to the outside world. In the seven years the anthropologist lived among them, only 3 tribespeople had died of old age. But later somebody let it slip that one of those three had actually been stabbed and thrown into the river because he was deemed to old.

When two of these people meet eachother in the woods, they try and trace their relations back to see whether or not they're related or if they're related to somebody who killed their brother or whatever. Basically it's a race to see whether or not they have to kill eachother, the first one to find out gets the advantage by way of "first stabbing."

The funny thing is the missionaries among them in the seventies have finally helped stop the endless cycle. People who should be trying to murder eachother are united by "church services" and the violence has been replaced with a greater appreciation of the value of life.

So please shut up with your idiotic generalizations and read something PLEASE. The book I got the above info from is Wade Davis's One River. It's awesome, you'll love it, and you'll DEFINETLY learn something.


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
Two Spirited

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 612
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3184482 - 09/27/04 01:06 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I cannot possibly research and speak about ALL known tribes and besides it would be a huge waste of my time so I must generalize.They killed to defend territory this certainly is not pointless.These same waorani had their land raped for oila nd their rivers polluted.I am familar with the waorani.Oil companies tricked them lied to them and stole their land.In return they got a small amount of refined and processed food and some tribes got some metal sheets.They didnt want the metal.They accepted the food and came to prefer it over their own.This disrupted their local life.

These waorani stopped defending their territory and now many have been forced to move while many others are now ill from poisoning b/c of having to drink oil polluted waters.Some of theri land has been destroyed and most rivers polluted so nothing can live in it or drink from it.


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Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3184522 - 09/27/04 01:20 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

yes, the story of the waorani is a tragic one, but that's not the debate, so pop another ritalin and go over what we're talking about:

Your generalization that stone-age people only kill for "good reasons." I've negated this statement with my example of the waorani. End of story. Tribal people do the same things we do, but the scale is heavily minimalized by their size (hard to commit genocide with a team of 10 dudes) and their technology (Hard to level hiroshima dropping a rock on it). This gives the impression that technological sophistication has a direct correlation to a sense of morality/ethics, but this is an illusion.

They're humans just like us, please drop the ego and stop insisting otherwise when the evidence is overwhelmingly against you.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3184525 - 09/27/04 01:20 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

When two of these people meet eachother in the woods, they try and trace their relations back to see whether or not they're related or if they're related to somebody who killed their brother or whatever. Basically it's a race to see whether or not they have to kill eachother, the first one to find out gets the advantage by way of "first stabbing."

Sounds like East L.A.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3184531 - 09/27/04 01:22 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

"That is not "post-apocalyptic" survival. It is poaching."

Lol... if their was an apocolypse, the legislation and laws that make that form of hunting poaching would no longer exist. And i would be surviving by hunting and eating the deer. Therefore in every sense of the word that would be post apocalypic survival (surviving after society is gone)

And i never said i do this, nor would do it, unless i needed to (such as in a post apocolyptic survival)


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Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3184541 - 09/27/04 01:25 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

In an apocalyptic situation, I'd go somewhere with a lake and mountains, like where I grew up, cause a bunch of landslides by diverting creeks so that all the roads are destroyed, and then I'd get 50 people together, make a big war canoe, and then we'd rule the lake with an iron fist. It would be awesome.


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OfflineUnenlightenedOne
Two Spirited

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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3184558 - 09/27/04 01:31 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Waorani arent a stone age culture firstly but thats besides the point.Defending of territory is a good reason.Killing 5 people for an x-box isnt.Im not saying technology has any correlation to morality.

I will not simply agree with you because you tell me I should.lol

I am expressing my opinions.


--------------------
Do not desire to reach a high level.Rather work without thought of reward to iron out flaws and impurities in one's self for the sake of one's self.When one has done this one needs not to desire anymore. http://www.lifeforceonlinestore.com/yc/


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3184572 - 09/27/04 01:36 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

...so pop another ritalin and go over what we're talking about:

*snrrffttt* Please warn me ahead of time. Now I must clean the beer from my computer screen.  :shocked:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: UnenlightenedOne]
    #3184594 - 09/27/04 01:45 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

.Defending of territory is a good reason
They killed a little for that, but for that they killed outsiders. They did not fight eachother for territory. In the 50s and 60s they had 15 square miles for every man, woman, and child. That's fucking huge. Get yer shit straight (ie accept mine).

I am expressing my opinions.
But my information hasn't been considered by your opinion. My information negates your generalization about how tribal stone-age people don't commit sensless acts of violence. Simple.

Waorani arent a stone age culture firstly
Not currently, no, but a lot of the information in my post was about the 60s and 70s. At that point they didn't even make their own stone tools. They found axeheads in the forest every now and then that were made hundreds of years previously by a different culture (I guess they win on the recycling front). They saw the axeheads as gifts from gods, so I guess that means that until recently, they were in an age previous to the stone. Weird eh?

Anyway, if I wasn't a teched-out stoner .. you're lucky I'm not a waorani, I'd probably stab you with sharpened fire-hardened stick by now.. those sick bastards.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Swami]
    #3184604 - 09/27/04 01:47 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Swami, if you paid the bills by selling pharmaceuticals on the rave circuit out of the trunk of your car.. you'd be way cooler.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Are tribal stone-age shamanistic societies fucked or wha [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3184650 - 09/27/04 01:54 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

How do you think I manage to be on here all the time without "working"? Oops! I better delete this...


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