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western society disables evolution
    #6178455 -

well i have been learning about evolution in school, and it has really got me thinking about our society, and how much it totally disregards evolution. For example, in nature the killing of creatures with weak genes by predators and disease leaves the creatures with good genes to breed. Western medicine, and religeon say everyone must breed, and survive, regardless of the weakness of their genes. OK, so this sounds all fluffy and nice.. but look at the long run. In the long run there will be too many people, and any random genes... how will we evolve as a species in this current system, if anyone can breed? well we can look at what our society has come to with this system. I will leave it with a quote (paraphrased) "peple take losing a child so hard because it is the ultimate failure in a culture that has effectively reversed nature" --the bipolar guy from six feet under.


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A civilization based on authority-and-submission is a civilization without the means of self-correction. Effective communication flows only one way: from master-group to servile-group. Any cyberneticist knows that such a one-way communication channel lacks feedback and cannot behave "intelligently."

the principle of authority" was the "eminently theological, metaphysical and political idea that the masses, always incapable of governing themselves, must submit at all times to the benevolent yoke of a wisdom and a justice, which in one way or another, is imposed from above."
"no one should be entrusted with power, inasmuch as anyone invested with authority must . . . became an oppressor and exploiter of society."

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: secretmachine]
    #6178487 -

It is true that the establishment of human society tends to moot the influence of evolution on our species, and indeed that many "save the planet" campaigns similarly attempt to save species that are unable to adapt and therefore prone to dying, this is not merely a symptom of Western civilization. Indeed, Eastern cultures, too, practice medicine and attempt to improve the lifestyles of the people living in their countries. Communist nations like China attempt to provide equal living conditions for all humans, regardless of disability or impairment.

Human evolution has largely stopped in a macro-scale as we achieved the ability to alter our environments to suit us, rather than adapting ourselves to the environment. While animals will, through the process of natural selection, adapt to climate changes by, for example, developing fur coats to survive winters, humans instead build fires or invent heaters.

This is not necessarily a bad thing - it simply means that the next step of human evolution is likely to be a technological or spiritual evolution, rather than a physiological one.


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"Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr
"The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178557 -

Good point.

Though I worry about the dumbing down of western culture (if that's actually happening) Hard to have a evolution of spirit in mass under those conditions.

Who knows? We shall wait and see. At my age I most likely won't see anything. :grin:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #6178579 -

"We shall wait and see."

That's the trick to it, I think, is waiting. Evolution is not a process that can be forced. Attempting to force the process leads to failure. Instead, evolution must simply be allowed to happen. Or not to happen, as the case may be. But it cannot be forced.

We must just wait and see.


--------------------
"Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr
"The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #6178621 -

The least educated people in the world are having the most kids. This would lead one to believe that humanity would be de-evolving. However, the social-economic-political elite are increasingly gaining strength as the power they hold becomes a more sought after and therefore more valuable commodity. Is the so called evolution of mankind then in the hands of the masses and popular opinion or the manipulation of the elite? Good points made by all so far.


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"We know where they (Weapons of Mass Destruction) are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

-Donald Rumsfeld

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178631 -

I was talking evolution of mankind with Veritas last night and she pointed out evolution does whatever is possible until it isn't.

In other words at some point for every species it goes extinct. :grin:

We tend not to consider this for ourselves. We like to think we are the goal. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/17/06 01:26 PM)

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #6178645 -

Why should we consider it for ourselves? It's worked just fine in the past without the need for the subject to consider it.

And, less morbidly, we also have a unique (relative to this planet) capacity to potentially change that.


--------------------
"Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr
"The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178676 -

Maybe because when we think we are unstoppable we don't have to consider the consequences of our actions. Maybe?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #6178683 -

Perhaps. I think such would be fallacious, but there's nothing to say that we're not all behaving fallaciously, as a collective. Humanity certainly needs to come together in order to truly fluorish. However, should that happen, should the "grand spiritual awakening" occur, I think there will be very little, if anything, that we cannot accomplish or achieve.


--------------------
"Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr
"The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178694 -

thats a great point para, i didnt think of that, indeed we do evolve still, just in an opposite way.. necessity is the mother of all invention.


--------------------
---
A civilization based on authority-and-submission is a civilization without the means of self-correction. Effective communication flows only one way: from master-group to servile-group. Any cyberneticist knows that such a one-way communication channel lacks feedback and cannot behave "intelligently."

the principle of authority" was the "eminently theological, metaphysical and political idea that the masses, always incapable of governing themselves, must submit at all times to the benevolent yoke of a wisdom and a justice, which in one way or another, is imposed from above."
"no one should be entrusted with power, inasmuch as anyone invested with authority must . . . became an oppressor and exploiter of society."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178697 -

Then you are saying we would become one with the Ultimate Tao.

I am not too sure of that. Unless we are able to lose the human form and all form in this transformational process.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #6178718 -

Perhaps. I think it's difficult to predict where humanity will go - humans have this remarkable tendency to be surprising. We find ways around problems. We don't settle for "good enough."

Aren't we already part of the Ultimate Tao? Are we not part of the Universe? We are another iteration, another set within the domain of all things.


--------------------
"Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr
"The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178742 -

Yes we are remarkable for our adaptability. (Strange we are not happier for it)

In the Tao there is eternal beginning and return. Yes we are part of Tao and in this experience doomed to die along with everything we can see. That's what I'm talking about. This play may be beyond our sight and evolution just a temporary dream.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178745 -

Quite interesting as I have had a spiritual experience related to these terms. I will post that in another forum later. Basically I want to say is that those of you who know of the upcoming 2012 event, I believe that RIGHT NOW we are in a huge transisition, one of the biggest. As we move forward this will be an exciting and frightening time. I believe that instead of what many believe to be a cataclismic event coming, I believe we are in the midst of a spiritual evolution which will bring us back to the frequency of many forgotten abilities. First I should state that I have always badmouthed religions and occasionally the idea of a god so I am not a jesus freak. Many people will be left behind. All I can say is that their is no worse feeling than being left behind. It could be easily referred to as hell. It is our spirit and minds that are evolving, Strength and size are benifits of the past. So sorry all you muscle heads, you better start thinking and stop pumping. LOL. Evolution and spirituality do co-exist. No contradictions. Just misunderstandings. Sorry I have trouble getting it all out in any orderly fashion.


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It is the Time for War, and my weapon is LoVe...

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: ShamanSoul]
    #6178754 -

I've heard this all before (I grew up in the 60s and 70s). Evolution (up till now) don't work that fast dude. Another instance of humanity thinking itself outside of the natural flow and somehow special. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: western society disables evolution [Re: secretmachine]
    #6178762 -

Para, I when you say we need to "come together" in a "grand spiritual awakening" are you implying a universal moral concesus? I don't think a spiritual or religious component is neccessary for people to understand the what is right.


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"We know where they (Weapons of Mass Destruction) are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

-Donald Rumsfeld

Edited by zubdog (10/17/06 01:55 PM)

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Icelander]
    #6178768 -

Hmm. Technological evolution is markedly faster than standard evolution.

As for 2012? I look forward to another calendar year. I don't expect much more from it, unless that thing is forced, and if it is, it will not be part of the natural order of things.

Quote:
Para, I when you site we need to "come together" in a "grand spiritual awakening" are you implying a universal moral concesus? I don't think a spiritual or religious component is neccessary for people to understand the what is right.


I didn't actually say we need to do so. I said that should we do so, we could accomplish quite a bit. I don't actually believe such will happen - I am using a concept that I have seen fairly regularly here, however.


--------------------
"Reality is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it." - N. Bohr
"The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering." - Tao Te Ching, 48

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178794 -

2012, blah blah blah. If the Republicans are in power they'll still be arguing about what radio stations the troops should listen to and Terry Schiavo's feeding tube. I don't see any significant progress in 2012 unless we stop worrying about useless issues and look to the bigger problems facing the world.


--------------------


"We know where they (Weapons of Mass Destruction) are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

-Donald Rumsfeld

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: secretmachine]
    #6178796 -

Genetic variation doesn't hinder the evolution of a population, it aids it.

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Re: western society disables evolution [Re: Paramemetic]
    #6178797 -

In human evolution it seems to be the .5% that actually can rapidly evolve to some extent (emotionally/spiritually). For the rest it is the same mindset our ancestors had. This may be the way our species is built and may well always be this way until we meet our end, (backing into a mirror :grin:)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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