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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Society's Pressure on Fat People
    #1845199 - 08/24/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Have you ever heard an obese person claim that it is all right for them to be fat, that society puts too much pressure on someone to not be obese? That they justify being obese by the fact that society pressures them to not be overweight, and that they have a right to?

I am not saying that they don't have a right to. But why would one want to? It seems that justifying themselves like that is just covering up the fact that there is a mental weakness that prevents them from losing weight.. which just could be the reason that they are obese in the first place...

Anyways, what do you all think? Myself, I would prefer to be in the healthiest state possible, and I guess not staying fit would have to be the result of some weakness.. I mean, shouldn't we consider it our responsibility to stay in shape? Claiming that society demanding us to be perfectly fit as the problem seems to point to that person is trying to cover up a weakness, because maybe there is a reason being healthy and fit is so stressed..

How many of us here would consider us in good or great shape? I myself am not fit or cut by any means, but I am not really fat. I am going to start some sort of exercise routine so I can work off the fat that is here and build the muscles up, because the mind is only one half of the equation..
Peace.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1845222 - 08/24/03 01:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I agree, mind and body are one and the same, they affect each other constantly. I really don't think its as easy to have a healthy mind if one lacks a suitably healthy body. Peace.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: chunder]
    #1845233 - 08/24/03 01:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

chunder said:
I agree, mind and body are one and the same, they affect each other constantly. I really don't think its as easy to have a healthy mind if one lacks a suitably healthy body. Peace.




This is exactly my point. Having an unfit body can be seen as weakness, right? And doesn't having an unfit body reflect a weakness in the mind? Not having the mental strength to eat healthy and to exercise regularily will result in a reflection of that in the body, right?

Balance seems to be the name of the game..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineAmnesiac
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1845548 - 08/24/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Good post fireworks, I would have to agree with what you're suggesting. Society's 'pressure' on overweight people is not the reason why people are obese, but some obese people would like to convince everyone that that is the reason..

It is true that some people are too hard on the overweight. It starts from early childhood, when other children torment the fat kids, which pushes them into a state of feeling guilty, and can often cause them to pig out even more for comfort reasons.

But there really is no excuse at all to desire to remain obese. When fat people say that they are happy being overweight and that they don't care about changing, it's likely that part of them has given up. They are too lazy and too addicted to junk food to try a healthier approach.

Of course I have to cover myself from possible flames here... I really do not judge people by their weight. I know plenty of overweight people who are great... in fact, it seems that overweight people can have a greater tendency to be very loving. I guess their love for food can rub off on people :smile:

I personally am very UNDERWEIGHT! Whatever I do, I can't seem to put on any pounds. I'm 6'0 and usually between 140Lbs and 145. I eat and eat and eat, but it just doesn't go anywhere! I think I have a very fast metabolism, and it's bloody exhausting trying to eat enough to keep my weight up. So many North Americans would probably kill to have my problem :tongue:


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Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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Offlinedibbles
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1845701 - 08/24/03 05:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Im a fat guy, doesnt mean im not healthy in my head, i may not be able to run a few miles efficiently, if i really really wanted to lose weight i could, i just have no motivation, im not going to pass it off as an excuse because of society pressures and other bs like that, some people have certain metabolisms and some people let themselves go, either way you may or may not have to direct certain attention to physical health.and yes food, i love it :smile:


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You've succumb to an empty fate, your false prophets are gone, your life,meaningless, your heart and head broken, and we're all laughing.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: dibbles]
    #1845717 - 08/24/03 05:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I myself don't really care how other people choose to live, it doesn't bother me because I have nothing to do with it. People shouldn't be making fun or anything of fat people, either.

I am just saying that I prefer to keep healhty as possible (I usually procrastinate and sometimes lack motivation, but these are all problems I can fix). I mean, this is the body I am going to spend the rest of my life this time around in, I might as well make what I can out of it.

I mean, it is healthier for you, easier to perform certain tasks (running, etc), and etc. when you are as fit. The women seem to like it, too. hehe
Peace.



--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: dibbles]
    #1845735 - 08/24/03 05:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

True, its all about what you're honestly comfortable with. If you're overweight, and it really bothers you, makes you angsty all the time about others' judging you etc. then thats a problem to be solved, just like any other. The same could go for people who are malnourished, or any other physical "abnormality" that could manifest as a form of guilt or shame in the mind.

Of course, if the physical condition doesn't affect your happiness, then there wouldn't be any problem. I know plenty of obese people that just don't give a fuck and are happy, content individuals.

I think that if your body is unhealthy, though, that there must be some affect on the brain. Mind and body are the same, because your brain, is part of your body. The same rules apply to it as any other organ. If you don't get enough, or the right kind of, nutrition, or if you saturate your body with toxins and fats, then there will most definitely be repurcussions in the mind. Your mind is a machine that needs specific fuels to function properly. Peace.


--------------------


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1845798 - 08/24/03 05:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

This is an interesting discussion, "FG." hehe looks like you've been doing some major thinking recently :smile: I like I like!

I am DEFINITELY biased on this subject, as I've been a stickman my whole life, but here's my opinion nonetheless.

Obesity, I think in most cases, is triggered by affluenza (n. a painful, contagious, socially transimitted condition of overload, overconsumption, debt, anxiety, and waste resulting from the dogged persuit of "more"). Affluenza shows its symptoms in all of us - anybody who owns a computer most-likely suffers from this "disorder." It appears in each of us in different ways; some of us buy food, more food, and more food. Some of us buy cars...

From what I understand, only about 4% of obese people are actually suffering from some type of gland problem or something that makes it impossible for them not to be this way.

I think it can certainly be unhealthy to be overweight, but hey if a "fat" person is OK with that, then that's OK with ME! After all, being too skinny and not eating ENOUGH can be a major problem as well - just ask me :smile:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (08/24/03 05:56 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Strumpling]
    #1845819 - 08/24/03 06:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Strumpling said:
This is an interesting discussion, "FG." hehe looks like you've been doing some major thinking recently :smile: I like I like!





Hehe, just have more time to express my thoughts in some form to be shared with others of a like mind... Alas, I'm also getting older and wiser.. hehe
Peace. 


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1846875 - 08/25/03 12:16 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, I had to write a paper for a moral issues class last semester on "is the fast food industry immoral?" and in doing research I found this crazy website about advocacy for fat people. the lady who wrote the site was rabid in her attacks against thin people or "society" that was so evil. it was weird. also, she didn't want to sue fast food corporations, it seemed like she just wanted people to accept obesity as healthy.

I think that the ancient greeks had it right, the philosophers ought to be working out half the time and thinking half the time. I'm now a pretty fit guy, I run LD, do yoga, kendo, lift weights, bike, play rec sports, etc and I eat right, but I've gone through periods when I've weighed like 125-130 lbs (I'm a bit over 6 feet tall) and it sucked. I'd trip really hard though.. anyway it's good to be healthy.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Malachi]
    #1847141 - 08/25/03 01:56 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I would like to point out some people do have a harder time losing weight and some people have an even harder time gaining it. Mr.X may excercise twice as much as Mr.Y (running not weight training =?) and Mr.X may still be trying to lose those last 40 pounds while mr Y is finishing his doughnut and trying to find pants small enough to fit him.

My point is it's not necessarily always about a "weekness" but some people are genetically predisposed (sp?/is this even the right word?) to be fat people. Not that that is an excuse but it does require a lot of work for some and none for others.


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OfflineGanjaManDan
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #1847159 - 08/25/03 02:11 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Dan doesn't get pissed off..

Dan does when people critisize people who are overweight... For some, it is their personal choice... But, for others, it wasn't.



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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: GanjaManDan]
    #1847501 - 08/25/03 05:25 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It is not ones personal choice to be fat... welll it might be to some... in America. Anyway, its like this man, growing up fat is the worst thing god could do to you, atleast it feels like it untill you see some retarded girl with no legs and arms. But its so hard especially like me when your the only one in the family its a nightmare, for some reason they feel free to express their opinions on what a loser you are cuz you cant lose weight, or a fat joke is i would say an every 3-4 minute thing, i swer to god, lol. Anyway i dunno about the rest of the fat population but as a kid i always hid these harsh feelings inside and everytime somone said something i ignored it, then a little while down the line i would make a joke about it, and then as i got older i would say i felt comftorble with my body. When that was the biggest lie i ever. So when you see a fat person say that they are comftorble with their bodies, nomatter how real it sounds 90% chance is their lying. I know i did, I dont anymore though. I just blame it on my damn metabolism. THATS DAMN THING! I SWEAR IF I COULD JUST GRAB IT AND PUNCH IT REPEATEDLY ON ITS FACE AND SAY "WAKE UP, DAMN IT WAKE UP!!!"...........Oh, sorry


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OfflineDailyPot
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Spokesman]
    #1849016 - 08/25/03 06:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

'Perfect' in its self is debatable. One of the problems IMO w/ western society is that we think something is right or better and force other people to do it to. Look at what happened to native americans, they were perfectly happy but because we had a 'better' way of life we forced them to have it too when it is clear to us now that it was wrong. Its a mater of choice, we're posting on the shroomery in air conditioning and monks are doing w/e monks do lol (sorry dunno much about monks) but is one better than the other? We sure think we are but they think they are to. Blah blah bla. Anyways enough about that.

Some people think bigger is better. Have you seen how many artists and crap draw fat people because they think they look much better? And I do think society puts too much pressure on weight. The fat/skinny line has been moving for years, what was skinny for a model before is now fat...and lets not forget about genetics, I do believe you are preprogrammed to look a certain way. We can change alot of things that we are preprogrammed for but it aint easy. Alot of people have trouble losing weight and others give up because of soceitys pressure.

Lucky readers, I dont have time to finish the post heh, so The End.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: DailyPot]
    #1850634 - 08/26/03 06:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DailyPot said:
'Perfect' in its self is debatable. One of the problems IMO w/ western society is that we think something is right or better and force other people to do it to. Look at what happened to native americans, they were perfectly happy but because we had a 'better' way of life we forced them to have it too when it is clear to us now that it was wrong. Its a mater of choice, we're posting on the shroomery in air conditioning and monks are doing w/e monks do lol (sorry dunno much about monks) but is one better than the other? We sure think we are but they think they are to. Blah blah bla. Anyways enough about that.

Some people think bigger is better. Have you seen how many artists and crap draw fat people because they think they look much better? And I do think society puts too much pressure on weight. The fat/skinny line has been moving for years, what was skinny for a model before is now fat...and lets not forget about genetics, I do believe you are preprogrammed to look a certain way. We can change alot of things that we are preprogrammed for but it aint easy. Alot of people have trouble losing weight and others give up because of soceitys pressure.

Lucky readers, I dont have time to finish the post heh, so The End.




The issue here isn't about society putting pressure on people who are fat. The issue is fat people citing that pressure as unjust and continuing to be fat..

Giving up trying to lose weight because of society's pressure gives evidence towards some kind of mental weakness. It has basically been proven that being overweight (the definition of what is overweight depends on your body structure, what is overweight for some is not for others..) is unhealthy. There are serious health risks that emerge from being overweight.

Obviously, it isn't easy to lose weight, but isn't so easy to gain it? If it was easy to lose weight, no one would be overweight in the first place. Just because it isn't easy or that society puts pressure on those who are overweight doesn't mean that it is worth losing weight...

Obviously, it is one's individual choice whether or not they wish to be overweight. There are certain genetic traits (suspossedly) that lean towards being overweight, but maybe someone in that lineage needs to do the work, start losing weight, so that the future offspring don't have to live with the same deficency? Genetics are not set in stone...

It should be noted that very few Native Americans were overweight before we interupted and disrupted their living patterns..
Peace.



--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDailyPot
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1851830 - 08/26/03 05:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I know genetics are not set in stone but it does make a difference.

Society IMO is not putting pressure so that the fat people will lose weight. Most people just think of it as another form of uglyness. Societys pressure in unjust since thats the only reason people do it. We do put too much pressure on look.

Genetics aren't everything but a good amount of people would rather be fat because there body is 'geneticly fat' than to have to work out alot and eat healthy crap. For some they would really have to work hard to look good. If they wanna be fat its there right. Just like if people wanna do drugs they should. If its your buisness its just that, your buisness. Other people shouldn't be forming opinions.

There is of course a debate over what fat in unhealthy terms is...I'm talking more about the people that just have a belly. Multipule bellies are different heh but its still there choice.

*edit*
btw, you think if you have a fat gene and you work out you can burn off the gene?


Edited by DailyPot (08/26/03 05:14 PM)


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: DailyPot]
    #1852809 - 08/26/03 10:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I read somewhere hot peppers can raise your metabolism enough to make a difference. But they also make you hot all the time.... or so I hear..


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1854001 - 08/27/03 05:52 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Well my theory was that id rather enjoy life instead of spend my time sober, eating food i hate, and exercising. But then i realized that being fat i wasnt enjoying life at all. So im currently in the process of getting in shape. But im the type that exersises alot, eats a little piece of candy and gains a pound LOSY MATABLOISM I'LL KILL YOU DAMN IT WORK!!!!!!

Its hard but its got to be done while young.


--------------------


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: Spokesman]
    #1854012 - 08/27/03 06:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

But im the type that exersises alot, eats a little piece of candy and gains a pound...

Sorry, but no matter the genetics, the laws of physics are never violated. Weight gained will never even remotely approach weight intake. Fruits and vegetables are mostly fiber, water and ash which goes mostly indigested; the remainder is turned into heat and any in excess of that goes into storage as fat or muscle.

Of course, candy (and other sucrose products) is a highly concentrated fuel source and should be avoided by those looking to lean out.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Society's Pressure on Fat People [Re: DailyPot]
    #1854021 - 08/27/03 06:29 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DailyPot said:
I know genetics are not set in stone but it does make a difference.

Society IMO is not putting pressure so that the fat people will lose weight. Most people just think of it as another form of uglyness. Societys pressure in unjust since thats the only reason people do it. We do put too much pressure on look.

Genetics aren't everything but a good amount of people would rather be fat because there body is 'geneticly fat' than to have to work out alot and eat healthy crap. For some they would really have to work hard to look good. If they wanna be fat its there right. Just like if people wanna do drugs they should. If its your buisness its just that, your buisness. Other people shouldn't be forming opinions.

There is of course a debate over what fat in unhealthy terms is...I'm talking more about the people that just have a belly. Multipule bellies are different heh but its still there choice.

*edit*
btw, you think if you have a fat gene and you work out you can burn off the gene?




Obviously, genetics do make a difference...

It doesn't matter what kind of pressure society is putting on people, or whether of not the pressue it puts on is unjust.

Laws incriminating marijuana are unjust. The reasons the government keeps it illegal is unjust. It is obviously unjust. But that means that the people who smoke marijuana should give in to the unjustness and not smoke marijuana? That people who are fat should not work off their fat because people put too much pressure on them to not be fat, for whatever reason the pressure is being put on?

Is it people's right to stay fat if they wish? Yes. Am I disagreeing with that right? No.

"For some they would really have to work hard to look good". Yes. This is what this is about. What I am saying is that it is a weakness that leads to people being fat. Not wanting to do the hard work to get rid of a disease that is having adverse effects on their body and their health is a weakness.

Whether or not they choose to give into the weakness, it is stiil a weakness. Whether or not it is easier for others to stay slim or whether or not there is pressure (just or unjust) from society to lose weight, it is still a weakness to avoid losing weight.

Let's say that there is a small city. They city is situated in a low plains area in a watershed. Let's say that somewhere north of the city a dam that is holding back water to produce energy breaks, all the water is released, and the city has three days before the water reaches them and floods the city, killing everyone.

There only chance of survival (we'll pretend that they can't flee the city, we'll imagine that they would love to keep their houses and properties intact) is to build a ten foot wall around the city to sucessfully block the water from overtaking the city in its rush down the watershed. We will say that three days is ample time for the city and its inhabitants to build this wall, and by building this wall they will all survive and prosper.

The benefits of building this wall are clearly obvious. The only thing agansit them is time. Now, should they NOT build the wall because they have a right to choose not to, or because the water is putting pressure on them to build the wall?

Hmmm... what do you think?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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