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Fags against Darwin
    #6188727 -

Hey guys, this ones just for fun

Darwin theory: traits that increase chances of survival and reproduction are passed on, traits that significantly decrease these chances are naturally weeded out.

"natural selection"

well, consider this: over 400 known species of mammals and birds regularly display partial or total homosexual characteristics. Among humans, cockatoos, sheep, alpacas, whales and hundreds of other forms of life, partial (bisexuality)  or total homosexuality occurs .
'

Obviously, being attracted primarily to the same sex is not a beneficial quality according to darwinian theory, and because it significantly reduces the chance of successfull reproduction, why has it not been weeded out?

Just something to think about.

:tongue:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6188757 -

a glitch in the program, or perhaps darwin's theory does not apply to this particular mode of behavior.

or, maybe it is all just for fun, like you said. :wink:

:earth:  :yinyang:  :shineon:


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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6188993 -

You are not considering the benefits.  I doubt any non-human animals are purely homosexual.  Sex is hard wired into the animal brain - the more sex you want to have the more offspring you can produce that will share that sex drive.  Sex has its benefits.  Most males will mate with 0 females in a mating season.  They've got to satisfy the sex urge somehow, and I contend that a sexually satisfied animal is better able to cope with its environment with a clear mind.  The energy investment of sex for males is minimal.  Show me one lesbian elk :lol:

You also assume that sexuality is 100% genetic, which I doubt.  It is relatively untestable, so scientifically we can't really be sure.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: thatiAM]
    #6189303 -

Great answer. :thumbup:

I laughed out loud, too :wink:


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: slaphappy]
    #6189370 -

Species dont simply survive better of of traits that let them breed and consume.

Think of this, a herd of some animal is 100% heterosexual and prone to constant mating. Within a few generations this herd will have eaten all of its food and will have taken all the space they could possibly have. This species dies out from starvation.

The nearby herd has the frequent homosexual among its group, and doesnt multiply so quickly. Due to this, it have bountiful resources and continues on for millions of years.


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The Mad Shroomer said:
People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver. :frown:

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Wasteland]
    #6189395 -

Wasteland said:
Species dont simply survive better of of traits that let them breed and consume.

Think of this, a herd of some animal is 100% heterosexual and prone to constant mating. Within a few generations this herd will have eaten all of its food and will have taken all the space they could possibly have. This species dies out from starvation.

The nearby herd has the frequent homosexual among its group, and doesnt multiply so quickly. Due to this, it have bountiful resources and continues on for millions of years.



Good point! :thumbup:


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6189504 -

Evolution hasn't created a perfect product where every feature, in every born animal, is beneficial for survival; there are many non-beneficial side-effects of evolution.

There are many animals/humans born with a disfunction of their body that makes it impossible to reproduce. This doesn't show that Darwin is wrong. It shows that evolution hasn't created a final
static perfect product without mutations and "errors".

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Annom]
    #6189514 -

a good example of this theory is the bonobos monkeys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo

Quote:
Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in
exchange for food. Bonobos are the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then
male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex.[2] In scientific literature, the female-female sex is often referred to as GG rubbing or genital-genital rubbing, while male-male sex is
sometimes referred to as penis fencing.




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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: kotik]
    #6189548 -

humans, and some animals have social values contributing as selective factors as well as natural selection.

Note that if the brothers and sisters and parents of the undesireable being are killed (which has happenned in more brutal societies) then the offending trait is removed from the gene pool to a more
effective degree.

Yet, in favour of non breeding individuals who bring merit to their families, a social boon like financial success can lead to the same or simmilar traits being positively selected for (catholic
priests, and suicide bombers).

among humans and possibly simpler cultures, social values become part of a more complex natural selective process as opposed to survival of the fittest operating only on individuals in their
pre-procreative and procreative stages.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6189779 -

Also consider this:
A dominant male that is capable of forcing other males into homosexuality will be able to create more offspring than a male who is submissive, and allows other males to mate with females.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6189808 -

Obviously, being attracted primarily to the same sex is not a beneficial quality according to darwinian theory, and because it significantly reduces the chance of successfull reproduction, why has
it not been weeded out?


According to my source (Veritas :grin:) this isn't a problem for survival. 10 to 15% homosexuality poses no threat to reproduction and continuation of the species. If it gets to 50% then it's a
problem.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Icelander]
    #6190054 -

great thoughts all.

"According to my source (Veritas :grin:) this isn't a problem for survival. 10 to 15% homosexuality poses no threat to reproduction and continuation of the species. If it gets to 50% then it's a
problem"

i dont think homosexuality would ever be a problem for the species. But according to darwinian theory, it would seem that sense no full homosexual would pass on its genetics, homosexuality itself
would be bred out. But in fact homosexuality seems to be pervasive among many vertebrates.

Another obvious possibility that someone else mentioned is simply that sexual preference is not genetic. But one wonders how "lifestyle or upbringing" could produce homosexuality in birds, for
example.

:tongue:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6190196 -

An interesting article on this subject:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6519

Quote:
So together, he says, the “maternal” and “immune” effects only account for 21% of male homosexuality, leaving 79% of the causation still a mystery.

This leaves a major role for environmental factors, or perhaps more genetic factors. “Genes must develop in an environment, so if the environment changes, genes go in a new direction,” he says.
“Our findings are only one piece in a much larger puzzle on the nature of human sexuality.”



It seems obvious to me that heterosexual parents can and do produce homosexual offspring.

This is genetic success & indicates that there is no conflict between Darwin's theories and the presence of homosexuality in any species.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Veritas]
    #6190435 -

wait a minute... threat to reproduction? there are WAAYYY too many people as it is.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6190529 -

I read a study once that suggested homosexuality to be an effect of population density. They put a small group of rats together and let them populate, managing their population so that there was
always a surplus of food. They showed very few instances of homosexual behavior. In another instance, they allowed the rat population to balloon until food became scarce. In this group they
observered many more instances of homosexual behavior per capita.

What they proposed was that homosexuality occurs in situations where a species' success outweighs their sustainability, and is like a balancing mechanism designed to ensure the long-term survival of
the species.

I have no idea how legitmate this work is.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Fags against Darwin [Re: Moonshoe]
    #6190612 -

Quote:
Moonshoe said:Another obvious possibility that someone else mentioned is simply that sexual preference is not genetic. But one wonders how "lifestyle or upbringing" could produce
homosexuality in birds, for
example.

:tongue:



Cool, let me give an example.  Birds often are monogamous.  Also, they often reproduce more than once per lifetime.  It isn't easy to set up a successful nest in many areas due to predation, lack of food, etc.

Let's say the average # of babies that live to be reproductively viable per nest is 0.5.  With help from another bird, it could be much higher, maybe 2.5.  If mom and dad mate produce one baby bird
(x), that bird can help at the nest for the next clutch or go out and try to make a nest on his own. 

X's genome is made up of 50% mom and 50% dad.  X's relatedness to future brothers and sisters (y) is also 50% (half to dad times half to brother plus half to mom times half to brother).  X can help at
the nest and actually help to preserve his genes by doing so.

The benefit times relatedness minus cost is actually higher for this behavior than if X went to reproduce on his own.

B = (2.5 - 0.5) = 2
r = 0.5
C = 0.5

Br - C = 0.5.  So X actually spreads more of his genes by helping at the nest than by reproducing.  If he starts his own nest, Br - C = (0.5 x 1 - 2 x 0.5) = -0.5.

So maybe X would resort to homosexuality to get his kicks, rather than actually trying to produce more offspring.

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