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America, God and Murder
    #3476265 -

I am NOT one to make tenuous acausal correlations, but I do find it interesting that (according to a poll on Fox News) America has the greatest number of believers in God of any country at around 70%. America also has the highest rate of murder, divorce, incarceration, and rape and the largest number of churches per capita.

How is this possible? If such a belief was a positive thing, would not one expect the USA to have the lowest rates in these critical areas? What might this tell us about the effects of religious belief?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476283 -

the right to bear arms == the right to be stupid
I keep hearing that guns don't kill people
have you ever heard that?
what part of that makes sense.
this guy was shot and it did not involve a gun, really.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3476408 -

Huh?

Men don't rape women; penises rape women? Do American men have more penises than other men?

Try again.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476457 -

70% sounds a bit low. In fact, I think that's closer to what it is in Canada. In the U.S., I think it's closer to 90%.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476476 -

remove their penises if you are running into difficulty with rapage,
but if that problem is not too important, refocus on the guns and remove their penises.
the whole artificial masculation by guns is an untouchable issue or is it touched too much.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476477 -

I am NOT one to make tenuous acausal correlations

You just did :smirk:

Can you show me where anyone suggested that a simple belief in "God" (or a creator, in general) will work to drastically reduce the number of violent crimes which occur?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476574 -

Assuming churches have a deterrent effect upon violent crime, how do we know the rate wouldn't be even higher without them?


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I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: trendal]
    #3476595 -

*sigh* Asking a question is not coming to a conclusion.

Can you show me where anyone suggested that a simple belief in "God" (or a creator, in general) will work to drastically reduce the number of violent crimes which occur?

How many zillion posts have you read here? Morality and belief in God are CONSTANTLY linked. Will you wager that I cannot come up with hundreds of such posts?

Note to readers: Tren is being deliberately obtuse. This will easily be demonstrated when he fails to take up this wager.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476632 -

Morality and belief in God are CONSTANTLY linked.

Linked in what way? "Linked" is different than supporting a direct causal chain.

This will easily be demonstrated when he fails to take up this wager.

How many times must I say it, Swami? I am not a gambler. We don't all live in Vegas :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Jellric]
    #3476651 -

Assuming churches have a deterrent effect upon violent crime, how do we know the rate wouldn't be even higher without them?

Do you truly believe this or are you merely playing Devils' Advocate? There is no parallel universe America with fewer churches to compare it to. If there were, it wouldn't be America as we know it. So while your question may be clever, it is totally unanswerable; therefore meaningless.

What we do have is hundreds of sociological experiments called "countries". They are made up of earth, water and people that are similar enough to make some reasonable comparisons.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476668 -

MAybe you should go back to England about 6-800 years ago, then come back and think about asking that... What made america, what drove the people to come here in the first place? Puritans? COme on... they tried to kill the king, and yet they still believed in god... I dont know if this says anything about religious belief, but just about the way people are, and have been for centuries.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476671 -

I wonder what the crime rate is in the Vatican?

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: phalloidin]
    #3476678 -

A quick search shows that the Vatican has the highest crime rate in the world. Makes you wonder.

Well, one of the highest crime rates.

Edited by phalloidin (12/10/04 02:36 PM)

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3476726 -

Hell, I'll take up your wager!
Please link me to hundreds of posts on the shroomery which all specifically and clearly show a link between religion and morality. That is.. if you're still willing



and Tryptastic, it doesn't make me wonder.
Read this article outside of the media bias in it : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2639777.stm

Millions of people pass through yearly, and the statistics are still based on 500 citizens. The failure of statistics IMO. The last serious crime occured 6 years ago.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: vampirism]
    #3476737 -

yeah, already I read it. mostly petty crimes involving tourists committed by other tourists.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: silversoul7]
    #3477088 -

"70% sounds a bit low. In fact, I think that's closer to what it is in Canada."

The rate of violent crime such as murder is MUCH higher in the United States than in Canada. The percentage of people who go to church in the U.S. versus the percentage of people in Canada who go to church is a lot closer than the difference in the murder and violent crime rate. Canada has a lot of pistols and rifles as does the U.S. so guns don't explain the difference in the violent crime rate.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: vampirism]
    #3477334 -

Hell, I'll take up your wager!
Please link me to hundreds of posts on the shroomery which all specifically and clearly show a link between religion and morality. That is.. if you're still willing

The posts will not show a link, but claim that religions makes one more moral. How much $$$ are you willing to wager to make it worth my while?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3477446 -

Swami said:
I am NOT one to make tenuous acausal correlations, but I do find it interesting that (according to a poll on Fox News) America has the greatest number of believers in God of any country at around 70%. America also has the highest rate of murder, divorce, incarceration, and rape and the largest number of churches per capita.

How is this possible? If such a belief was a positive thing, would not one expect the USA to have the lowest rates in these critical areas? What might this tell us about the effects of religious belief?


Now we know what that 30% is doing in their spare time...  :rolleyes:


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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3477508 -

That 30% is busy NOT murdering and NOT raping; that's what you meant, eh?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: America, God and Murder [Re: Swami]
    #3477598 -

Quote:
Swami said:
That 30% is busy NOT murdering and NOT raping; that's what you meant, eh?



You obviously don't see the point I was making.

It seems from your post that you are insinuating (correct me if I'm wrong) that the belief in some form of god is, as you see it, supposed to improve society somehow? I don't know where you got this idea, but it makes as much sense as as assuming that the 30% who AREN'T part of religion in any way or form are automaticly drug dealing, killing, stealing, raping whatever..

I'm sure that at least a good ... 30% of the people in that poll (of the 70%)are themselves immoral, but that's the price you pay when you live in a FUCKED UP world that we live in swami. Those who TRUELY believe what they believe aren't the ones doing all that shit. And by NO MEANS believe that by doing what they do are improving society... the bible even says that shit's just gunna get worse and worse until BAM we all get fucked in the ass!


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