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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Murder vs. Attempted Murder
    #1797792 - 08/10/03 12:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Western Society treats these two crimes as highly different, when to me; there is no difference as the intent in the perpetrator was the same.


Scenario A.

1. Bad guy shoots victim at point blank range aiming at the heart and instead wings the person. The victim lives. Bad guy gets caught and does 3-5 for aggravated assault. Gets HUGE sentence discount for being a lousy aim.

2. Bad guy shoots victim at point blank range aiming at the heart and scores. The victim dies almost instantly. Bad guy gets caught and does 15-30 for murder one. Gets NO positive reinforcement for marksmenship after all those years practicing at the shooting range.


Scenario B.

1. Bad guy shoots victim at point blank range aiming at the heart. Small caliber bullet gets deflected off rib cage to miss heart, but still pierces lung. Neighbor hears shot and calls 911. With top medical treatment the victim lives. Bad guy gets caught and does 3-5 for aggravated assault. Gets reduced sentence because of timeliness of medical treatment and alertness of neighbor.

2. Bad guy shoots victim at point blank range aiming at the heart, but only wings the person. The victim goes into shock and slowly bleeds to death even though only relatively moderate medical treatment was required to save victim's life. Bad guy gets caught and does 15-30 for murder one because of non-existent medical treatment for victim.


In Swami's imaginary legal world, intent is all that matters, not the good or bad fortune of the victim.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: Swami]
    #1797806 - 08/10/03 12:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You and Jesus have a lot in common.


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Offlineololiuqui
LSD-25

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 266
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: ]
    #1797809 - 08/10/03 12:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

We do. We is one.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: ]
    #1797814 - 08/10/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You and Jesus have a lot in common.

The hair. Is it the hair? Or the sandals perhaps? Oh wait. I get it. It is because people want to crucify me for challenging beliefs...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: Swami]
    #1797821 - 08/10/03 12:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Bingo!

Johnny, we have a winner! Show him what he's won!


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InvisibleLazerouth
Drunkard

Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 1,091
Loc: England
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: ]
    #1797889 - 08/10/03 12:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i think murder is better because if you just attempt it your a failure and nobody liekes a failure.

thats what this thread is about right?


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Offlinedawn of a new day
un inglohablante

Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 117
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: Swami]
    #1798004 - 08/10/03 01:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

In Swami's imaginary legal world, intent is all that matters, not the good or bad fortune of the victim.

I agree with you here, but it is often hard to prove what someone's intent really was.


--------------------
"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?"
- Bill Hicks


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 2 months, 28 days
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: Swami]
    #1798031 - 08/10/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
The hair. Is it the hair? Or the sandals perhaps? Oh wait. I get it. It is because people want to crucify me for challenging beliefs...




Yes, why can't you just conform to the Way it is suspossed to be here at Spirituality and Philosophy, anyways?! We don't like having what we say questioned, it makes us look bad.... I will start construction on a Cyber-Cross, projected completion in 2015....

The legal system considers the definiton of murder as one thing, and if they don't die, it isn't murder.. but, of course, it doesn't mean that they cannot hold the punishment for both in equal value... I think it should, I guess.

What really gets me are the defense lawyers... finding loopholes in the laws to get the guilty free, complete bullshit. If they didn't honestly do it, why don't they spend their time proving their innocence? Shouldn't there be a sentence for defense lawyers who know the truth and assist the protection of the guilty? I consider them accomplishes to the crime.... as long as the criminal allows when he plans the crime for a loophole to be left open, the defense lawyer is part of the plan to get them through it.
Peace.




--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 1,718
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: Swami]
    #1798103 - 08/10/03 02:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

In Rhizoid's imaginary legal world, harm reduction and damage control is all that matters. Intent is relevant for deciding responsibility for the damage, and it can also be an indicator of future harm. But I have no other legal use for intent.

Since the damage is greater when the murder is successful, I think it's reasonable that the price to pay for that crime should be higher than for attempted murder.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 2 months, 28 days
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1798105 - 08/10/03 02:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

What about the Intent to Deliver?
hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisible2Experimental
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1798123 - 08/10/03 02:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Possibly what Mr. Mushrooms meant, Swami, was Jesus beleived(at least in the christian version of the bible)that a thought was the same as an action... Think about killing someone and its just like killing them... Good thing the world doesent really work this way.

But maybe Jesus was onto something. Since our thoughts create our reality, thinking negativly, or otherwise called " sinning", would alter our mind and the way we thought, further corrupting our subconcious into the things he considered "evil". Which would lead to the faster decent into HELL. I think what Jesus meant by hell was actually just the state of mind you are in. And thats true... you see all the rich, supposodly "happy" people commiting suicide and shit, but really, thier problems are in thier head(even if they really have problems) and they have anything they want in the world...

My point: Dont get so far caught up in negative thinking and wishing harm to others. In the long run, you are starting a downward spirial thought process, which can only lead to mental problems and roadblocks in your life.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1798995 - 08/10/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"ATTEMPTED murder?
Really, I mean, come on.
Do they give a Nobel Prize for ATTEMPTED Chemistry?"
- Sideshow Bob


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflinePyronate
Prying open mythird eye

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 100
Loc: Forever I walk among the ...
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1799172 - 08/10/03 08:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
What really gets me are the defense lawyers... finding loopholes in the laws to get the guilty free, complete bullshit.




But necessary bullshit. The laws behind "loopholes" that guilty criminals occasionally get off the hook for are generally limitations on the power of government; basically, any time a criminal gets off on a "loophole," it wasn't their fault or their lawyer's fault, but the fault of the government official that crossed over the bounds of power.

An example: Let's say a police officer extracts a confession from a suspect through intimidation. Evidence indicates the person is probably guilty, but it's the confession that nails home the conviction. So the defense attorney calls into question the confession, and gets it thrown out of court. The defendant goes free - not because of any action of his, but because of the failure of the police officer that dealt with him.

Another example: Police officers illegally enter a home and locate several pounds of heroin and a meth lab. They arrest the owner: cut and dried, this person possessed heroin with intent to sell and was producing methamphetamine. However, despite his obvious guilt, the owner will go free because of a little "loophole" called the Fourth Amendment.

Yet another example: A man is jailed for slaughtering 14 people in full view of several witnesses. However, the court system fails to bring him to trail within the allotted time limit (60 days, I believe). Despite his obvious guilt, the man goes free becaue of a "loophole" - a "loophole" designed to prevent the government from keeping citizens imprisoned for extended periods of time without delivering a final ruling.


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom... keep that in mind at all times."

--Bill Hicks (RIP)


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Murder vs. Attempted Murder [Re: Pyronate]
    #1800244 - 08/11/03 02:07 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The phrase "kill all the lawyers" (Shakespeare), when taken out of context, is a sophomoric concept at best.


Despite his obvious guilt, the man goes free becaue of a "loophole" - a "loophole" designed to prevent the government from keeping citizens imprisoned for extended periods of time without delivering a final ruling.

It doesn't always happen like that:  http://w3.usf.edu/~uff/AlArian/
God Bless the Patriot Act!  :rolleyes: 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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