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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Proof that our minds are wrong
    #3371679 - 11/16/04 11:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Think about the idea that reality exists. Conceptually it is completely implausible that anything would exist at all, as if nothingness is the default. That it is our mental construct. In reality existence is the default and it can be no other way.

This makes clear the problem with our conceptual mind. We get unhappy because this mistaken mind manufactures illusions and attempts to grasp them but they slip away. This mind creates a hypothetical world where things are permanent leading us to feel possesive and hold onto things, but we lose them and feel bad. the end.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3371745 - 11/17/04 12:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

good synopsis :smile:

I don't consider this wrong per se, as it could be said the mind acts to attempt to unfold its predecided view of the universe unto the other observatory points in the universe, but due to the competing numbers, change is mutual.

However, it's the direct attachment to this abstract 'mind world' that leads to suffering, such as how you said eternalizing possessions. It's when we actually expect the experience to coincide with the expectations (in other words when our expectations are not fulfilled) that this takes place.

just drift :cool:
(pass me dat joint)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3372938 - 11/17/04 08:07 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Conceptually it is completely implausible that anything would exist at all, as if nothingness is the default.

I would say the opposite: conceptually it is implausible that "nothing" could exist in any form. Obviously I am here, I think therefore I am. If I exist, why can't anything else exist?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3372947 - 11/17/04 08:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

We get unhappy because this mistaken mind manufactures illusions and attempts to grasp them but they slip away.




What illusions are you referring to here?

Quote:

This mind creates a hypothetical world




Or does it actually create a hypothetical reflection of a real world?


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Always Smi2le


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: GazzBut]
    #3372959 - 11/17/04 08:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Our minds doesn't exist, therefor it cannot be wrong nor right.


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3373228 - 11/17/04 11:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Think about the idea that reality exists. Conceptually it is completely implausible that anything would exist at all, as if nothingness is the default. That it is our mental construct. In reality existence is the default and it can be no other way.




Maybe you can word this in a different manner, or something? I'm having troubles following the flow of thought...

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: trendal]
    #3374084 - 11/17/04 02:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Obviously I am here, I think therefore I am.




that so?

prove it, descartes.


Edited by Zekebomb (11/17/04 02:49 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3374101 - 11/17/04 02:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

If our minds are wrong, then how could you prove it, since your mind has to register that proof?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: silversoul7]
    #3374413 - 11/17/04 04:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"If a fire burns me I do not question the reality of the fire, whereas if I am beset by the fear that a ghost will appear, I take refuge behind the thought that it is only an illusion. But just as the fire is the psychic image of a physical process whose nature is unknown so my fear of the ghost is a psychic image from a mental source; it is just as real as the fire, for my fear is as real as the pain caused by the fire."
-from Chapter IX of Modern Man in Search of a Soul, by Carl Jung, (1933) said the inter net :P


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3374499 - 11/17/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Even in a realm of nothing, subtle vibrations exist. There is always something, even in the appearance of nothing. I say there is always something existant and nothing is non existant.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflineGomp
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: psyka]
    #3374542 - 11/17/04 04:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

non existent is not existing?

past      |  present      |  future
something  |  nothing      |  anything

:confused: :sun:


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Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (11/17/04 04:28 PM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3374818 - 11/17/04 05:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Unfortunately it is only something I can prove to myself. I think, therefore I am. Notice the "I" in there. I can't be sure ANY of you actually exist, of course :wink:

If you chose not to accept the evidence that you, yourself, exist...there is of course nothing I can do to PROVE to you that you, or I, exist.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: trendal]
    #3374927 - 11/17/04 05:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

""If you chose not to accept the evidence that you, yourself, exist...there is of course nothing ""

:wink: :thumbup:


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: silversoul7]
    #3375172 - 11/17/04 06:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
If our minds are wrong, then how could you prove it, since your mind has to register that proof?




It is not the ability of the mind itself that is flawed, but that it's default pecreption of reality is incorrect. The way we concieve the world out of habit is not the way it really is if you examine it closely. Nothing is solid, nothing stays the same, everything can be broken down infinitely, and nothing exists discretely from everything else, yet somehow we habitually act on the belief that this not so. We behave as if every object exists on its own, and that those objects always stay the same, when really those are just projections of our mistaken thought process.

The fact that the truth that reality does exist, always has and always will, seems impossible to our normal way of thinking because we operate in a reality of mistaken concepts, rather than the real one that we experience directly.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3377923 - 11/18/04 07:56 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Its called evolution. We have to look at the world as a group of discrete objects seperate from ourselves as we would never have got to where we are today. Maybe we are moving towards a dramatic change in perception that will allow us to perceive more "accurately" the objective world? lol.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: GazzBut]
    #3377927 - 11/18/04 07:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"We don't do what we have to, what we have to do, we have to do"
unknown :P


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Edited by Gomp (11/18/04 07:59 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Proof that our minds are wrong [Re: GazzBut]
    #3378080 - 11/18/04 08:51 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
It is not the ability of the mind itself that is flawed, but that it's default pecreption of reality is incorrect. The way we concieve the world out of habit is not the way it really is if you examine it closely. Nothing is solid, nothing stays the same, everything can be broken down infinitely, and nothing exists discretely from everything else, yet somehow we habitually act on the belief that this not so. We behave as if every object exists on its own, and that those objects always stay the same, when really those are just projections of our mistaken thought process. 




That is more effectively to-the-point. :wink: :thumbup:

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Its called evolution. We have to look at the world as a group of discrete objects seperate from ourselves as we would never have got to where we are today.




Indeed, this is a benefit from an individual, distinct perspective... however, it is not necessary for us to advance without such a defined, inflexible, individual perspective. We've forced our way violently through the dark by doing so, and the fact that we've made it is this far, for the most part, comes down to luck. :grin: Now that we are in a position in time where we are capable of instant communication, and that understanding is not so hard to come by, it is entirely possible, and necessary, for us to awaken to the truth of the matter - our evolution really requires it, this is the point that our blind ways of the past cannot continue without dire consequence.

Mutually arising, dependant variables in a mesh network!  :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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