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Anonymous

God Was Wrong
    #1170105 - 12/25/02 05:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

This is effectively what the Christian Right anti-drug are saying.

God was wrong to make psychadelic mushrooms.
God was wrong to make marijuana.
God was wrong to make opium poppies.
God was wrong to make coca.
Most of all, God was wrong when he made our brains produce DMT.

Sounds to me like even those "dedicated" to Christianity don't belive in their god.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1170199 - 12/25/02 06:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Stonedfish was wrong.  He should've posted this in the spirituality forum.  But you bring up good points, I agree, God was wrong, Lets kill God.    :smirk:


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1170480 - 12/25/02 09:27 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I thought God was perfect, thats what makes him immortal. He created Adam to be immortal because he was perfect. He sinned by eating the apple, that made him inperfect.

Jesus was perfect. He is immortal.

Sorry, I was just preached to from one of those Jahova's witnesses.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1170494 - 12/25/02 09:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I still love God for inventing sodomy.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1170518 - 12/25/02 10:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The religious right is a political force!

The're also really annoying, especially to a dope smokin, shroom muching freak like me, because I'm fairly seriously christian in my beliefs.

And, yeah, God made the stuff near as I can tell. Those religious righters are fucked with a capitol F man. Don't listen to those idiots.

The God described in the new testament was nothing like that. Believe me, I've actually read the thing.

If Jesus was here now the way he was 2000 years ago I'm sure they'd wanna crucify him.



--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (12/25/02 10:48 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1170646 - 12/26/02 03:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

God gave man free will for a reason, I think it's unchristian to try to undo that.

All morality enforcement seem unchristian to me. Isn't the whole point to get people to submit of their own free will.


--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Don't vibe my harsh, bro.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1170705 - 12/26/02 04:49 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

All morality enforcement seem unchristian to me. Isn't the whole point to get people to submit of their own free will.



EXACTLY. Otherwise a choice to behave in a certain manner is merely to avoid getting in trouble with the law, not because it is the right way to behave.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Evolving]
    #1170719 - 12/26/02 05:05 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

American Christians are just lazy, and want to let the government do the job that they were commanded to do for them.

I suppose that frees up more time for feeling righteous.  :confused:


--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Don't vibe my harsh, bro.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1170813 - 12/26/02 06:28 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

****I suppose that frees up more time for feeling righteous****

you don't know how right you are...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1170829 - 12/26/02 06:37 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I am curious to see Rail_Guns response, since he is the resident Christian.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Anonymous

Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Skikid16]
    #1170858 - 12/26/02 07:01 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

On a side note, I couldn't decide whether or not to post this in Spirituality or Political. I posted it here because, last night, I was more angered at the anti-drug propoganda that I was being fed on Christmas. But now that I think about it, this is the wrong forum.

Edit: Thanks to the mod who moved this thread.


Edited by stonedfish (12/26/02 07:41 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Rono]
    #1170861 - 12/26/02 07:05 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I'm a christian as well, however many here confuse religion with christianity...religion is the worst thing that has happened to christianity.  I was born Catholic, so you see my distress :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGrav
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1170901 - 12/26/02 07:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I take it you don't run around with a jesus fish on your asshole then.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1170996 - 12/26/02 08:31 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Sounds more to me that you can't discern 'sheep' from 'wolves in sheep's clothing.' I've been a Christian since at least 1976 when I received Baptism, but certainly the real inner change occurred before that. All the plants you named are also psychoactive drugs, most of which belong in the hands of ethical and educated medical practitioners. Psychedelics, on the other hand, have little 'medical' application, unless one is talking about an enlightened psychiatrist like Stan Grof. Psychedelics are better utilized by philosophers, theologians, psychologists, artists, and practically any discipline other than medicine, at this time.

I'm also an Master Addictions Counselor, certified by the National Board of Certified Counselors, and I've seen nothing but wasted lives, crime and death by the average person addicted to opiates, cocaine and yes, even cannabis, which I used between 1969 and 1980.

So you see,"God" and "wrong" cannot be used intelligently in the seme sentence. God is Reality and the Source of existence. We, as created, are imperfect in all domains: physical, mental, moral, emotional, social, etc., because creation is 'other than' the Creator, Who is characterized by perfection.

I recommend you simply ask around to learn that there are people who 'call' themselves Christian, and those who 'are'. There are also intelligent and stupid versions of both of those categories, so you'll have to learn how to discern. Of course, 'discernment' is itself a 'spiritual gift' given to actual Christians, and since you are obviously not a Christian, you are likely to be deceived and to form opinions based on Christian-colored political movements like the Christian Right, who merely are into the status quo, are not seekers, or Christian mystics. If you want to Know what Christians are like, you must go to the Source, Who is Christ.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1171050 - 12/26/02 09:05 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

If God were real, he'd tell you that you're wrong, Markos.

Seriously though... I'm going to write a "Heteroabsolutist's Guide to the Bible". It'll tie in Zen, Joseph Campbell, and Nietzsche. A nice little package for all the literalists out there. God is zen. Heaven and Hell are states of mind. The crucifixion is a metaphor for the experience of ego loss. Ask yourself this: How come Jesus gave doubting Thomas mad props? The story of water into wine was a metaphor for livening up a party. The story of feeding 5,000 with a few fish and a few loaves of bread makes more sense if the fish and bread are metaphors for knowledge.

I can do this all day long.
Why do feel it necessary to cling to charlatans' literal translations of a spiritual guide of such beautiful analogies? Seriously... I'll "pray" for you...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMeph
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Sclorch]
    #1171082 - 12/26/02 09:38 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Sclorch, I can't wait to read that. It sounds very promising.

Good luck!


--------------------
I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.



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Anonymous

Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Sclorch]
    #1171088 - 12/26/02 09:46 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Nice, nice. I wish you'd really write that.. I'd love to read it.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1171093 - 12/26/02 09:49 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I dont believe there is a God.

I feel mankind is "wrong."


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineMeph
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Strumpling]
    #1171177 - 12/26/02 10:59 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hell, you think God was "right" to have created the datura plant?

Some mushrooms will cause a slow and painful death if eaten. We should never use the "God created it, so it's good" argument to justify drug use, or anything else for that matter.


--------------------
I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Meph]
    #1171336 - 12/26/02 01:14 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

He was definitely wrong to hang our extremely sensitive testicles outside the body where every low-hanging protusion or irate girlfriend has the potential to double us over in racking pain.

Very f-u-n-n-y, God!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Swami]
    #1171340 - 12/26/02 01:17 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Mankind was wrong in creating God. We are as close to "creators" as we've found so far. We should get credit; for now, anyway.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1171408 - 12/26/02 01:44 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Of course, 'discernment' is itself a 'spiritual gift' given to actual Christians, and since you are obviously not a Christian, you are likely to be deceived and to form opinions based on Christian-colored political movements like the Christian Right, who merely are into the status quo, are not seekers, or Christian mystics.

So Christians are just "given" the gift of being to "discern" eh. I see so "true" Christians have the final say (on earth), of what is good, what is bad, who is smart, who is stupid, what god's will is, and what "sin" is. "True" christians are the only one's who can know truth, know true divinity, and those of us who are not Christian/Christian mystics/ seekers (I assume seekers of Christ's truth is what you are refering to), are just easily deceived sheep, readily controlled by the status quo.

"True" christians sound a bit arrogant, don't they.


--------------------
Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Sclorch]
    #1171877 - 12/26/02 05:57 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Being a reasonably 'deep' person, I recognize, as do Hasidic Jews, that Scriptures have at least 4 levels of interpretation: literal, allegorical, symbolic and mystical.

I agree with you that there is much use of metaphor in the New Testament, but there is also a greater degree of 'midrash,' which is an ancient Hebrew technique of storytelling, that is intended to convey a spiritual reality or truth. The New Testament spans a number of years, has many authors and different agendas. The letters of Paul are the oldest and most genuine, while the newer Gospel accounts with their contradictions, all derive from Mark, and his from early oral traditions. None of them were intended to actually be historically accurate accounts - they are midrash, written by 1st century men to a 1st century audience. No reporter for the Bethlehem Gazette was taking notes at some manger while an astronomical anomally illuminated the scene. Much of this is the language of myth, with many commonalities to other sacred traditions.

Your Zen interpretation, or any interpretation from without the contect of 1st century Judea is simply erroneous. You can be as creative as you like by attempting to view these stories from a Buddhist , Hindu or whatever perspective, but there is no real internal validity to what you are proposing. To a Hindu, Jesus may be an avatar. To a Buddhist, Jesus is a bodhisattva. To the Muslims, Jesus is a prophet. To the Jews, Jesus is a real problem.

If you've ever read my posts, or read my recommendation to read John Shelby Spong, you'd know that I am not a literalist. The literal is but one level, like this drama literally occurred in 1st century Jerusalem, and there literally was a Y'shua ben Miriam - Jesus, son of Mary, who was crucified by the Romans. A Roman record names a "certain Chrestus" [in which Christos was misinterpreted, but Chrestos nevertheless means 'kind']. I am not literal about anything else, nor am I certain about anything else having been done or said, literally. Nevertheless, Jesus the Christ is my Lord and spiritual Master.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: God Was Wrong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1173105 - 12/27/02 06:58 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It seems as though the only difference between you, a "true" Christian, and, say, John Ashcroft, is that you are pro-drug. You show the same arrogance and egotisical characteristics that any other of the Christian Right show. When you belive that you are right and everyone else is wrong, you have justified in your own mind that you have the right to tell others what to do. Some channel this self-righteousness into anti-drug or anti-abortion rhetoric, some are content simply to tell others they are going to hell.


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OfflinePinkEchoes
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1173828 - 12/27/02 12:45 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

i told my friend his god made this stuff, so he must want us to use it, he said he didnt make it, satan did...i didnt know satan how the power to do that...religions cause more bad then good, all they are good for is a guide to live. i used to be a catholic, then i relized i didnt believe in all that jesus mumbo jumbo..now im nothing..im considering becoming a buddhist..that religion sounds amazing. can buddhists take drugs?


Edited by PinkEchoes (12/27/02 01:39 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: Anonymous]
    #1173949 - 12/27/02 01:47 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It is YOU that happens to be telling me what I think. It is you who is arrogant. Everything you mentioned is in your own mind, I never said or alluded to any of it - least of all who is going to Hell. What is more, you obviously have received abuse of some variety at the hands of someone who called him/herself a Christian, because you obviously have emotionally laden issues and an ax to grind. Go bang your own little ego against a wall instead of venting on me - you're not my client.

Lastly, I am not "pro-drug" [where are you getting this stuff from anyway?!]. Everything that one imbibes alters one's consciousness - even water. Mushrooms are living organisms that happen to contain substances that are structurally similar to our neurotransmitter serotonin, and while technically classified a 'drug,' it does not 'drug' a person anymore than it 'poisons' a person, though all the field guides also classify psilocybian species as 'poisonous.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMurex
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Re: God Was Wrong [Re: PinkEchoes]
    #1174267 - 12/27/02 05:35 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Didn't God make Satan according to the Bible?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Anonymous

Re: God Was Wrong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1174310 - 12/27/02 06:01 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Be kind and compassionate as often as you can.

Stonedfish's grandfather died Christmas day.

Peace Bro, Peace


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Anonymous

Re: God Was Wrong [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1174655 - 12/28/02 05:39 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

So you see,"God" and "wrong" cannot be used intelligently in the seme sentence

Of course, 'discernment' is itself a 'spiritual gift' given to actual Christians, and since you are obviously not a Christian, you are likely to be deceived

It is YOU that happens to be telling me what I think. It is you who is arrogant.


You are not fooling anyone - your condescending nature is showing through on all your posts. Saying God and wrong cannot be used intelligenly is your attempt to call me ignorant.

You say I can't discern between a sheep and a wolf in sheeps clothing, yet you're the one blindly following a God who has shown NO proof of his existance, and you call me arrogant for telling you what you're thinking? If I were telling you what you're thinking, you wouldn't be so faithful to a mythical creature.

You also say you never told me I am going to hell, but yet again, there was no need for it. I have met countless Christians like you, who will try to wear me down by insulting my beliefs and my statements and try to instil their beliefs in me. Goes God let us unenlightened heathens, us poor non-Christians who have NO discernment and are easily decieved into Heaven?

Try putting for an arguement, not insulting all those who disagree with you.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Anonymous]
    #1174665 - 12/28/02 05:46 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)



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Anonymous

Re: God Was Wrong [Re: ]
    #1174708 - 12/28/02 06:37 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Depends on what definition you use:

A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.

The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.

An image of a supernatural being; an idol.

One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.

A very handsome man.

A powerful ruler or despot.

In italics is the definition I go by. Consult a dictionary before you put "by definition" in anything you write, or say for that matter.


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