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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Proof of God undermines Faith in God
    #1384878 - 03/17/03 02:55 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

If you don't agree with this... then you need to think more.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlineupupup
guardian

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1384924 - 03/17/03 03:06 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Isn't that what Aquinas ultimaly came to?

"It is like putting straw before gold." I belive was what he said about the whole deal.

When someone says that through faith you eventually come to a knowing you can be sure they are getting wacky......


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: upupup]
    #1384947 - 03/17/03 03:10 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

It's just a little reminder... I know most here understand.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
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Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1384958 - 03/17/03 03:13 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I agree.


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
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Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Murex]
    #1385553 - 03/17/03 05:37 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

So he said rectum damn near killed him. I don't you understand at all.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Zahid]
    #1385708 - 03/17/03 06:27 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

lol! are you kidding? wtf are you talking about Zahid?

Sclorch, you may disregard my misguided brothers who attempt to "prove" that God exists. They know not the meaning of what they're doing.


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Anonymous

Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1386350 - 03/17/03 11:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Who needs faith when you've got proof?

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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: ]
    #1386354 - 03/17/03 11:33 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Faith if for the blind


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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Offlineupupup
guardian

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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: EvilGir]
    #1386633 - 03/18/03 03:12 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

When you think you know you have ceased to learn....

I for one cannot begin with my finite mind to uderstand the infinite.....


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

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Offlinetastyshroom
Mr.Shroom
Male

Registered: 03/15/03
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: upupup]
    #1400448 - 03/22/03 10:36 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Its just one of those things you don't try to proof because it always just brings more questions..you just know

Quote:
you may disregard my misguided brothers who attempt to "prove" that God exists. They know not the meaning of what they're doing.


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Perspective on life always changes

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InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1400509 - 03/22/03 11:16 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Proof of God undermines Faith in God

I'm not sure I understand.  Please elaborate a bit for us slow folks.  :cool: 


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Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Revelation]
    #1400665 - 03/22/03 12:27 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Revelation, I might be wrong here, but what I thought Sclorch was getting at is this. If you have proof of Gods existence, then you do not need to have "Faith" in his existence, because having proof of something implies that you no longer need to have Faith in it.

Ill try to make an analogy. Say you have faith (can be substituted for the word believe) that there is a man standing behind a brick wall. (for whatever reason). Then you are shown that on the other side of the brick wall, there is a man standing there. Now that you know that the man is standing there (it has been proved to you, as such) you no longer need to have faith, or believe him to be standing there, you know it for a fact.

You could easily make anything into a statement like Sclorch has done, like this:

"Proof of aliens, undermines faith in aliens"

Hope I was of some help,
Cheers,
Jono.


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Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton

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InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

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Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: jono]
    #1400857 - 03/22/03 02:07 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks, jono.

I would disagree with this because in my opinion it is through faith which we experience god. It is through faith that we know god. My perception of the nature of god, and also the nature of faith, probably differs from Sclorch's.

There is no "proof" which would validate the existence of god more than the intuitive understanding which is provided by faith.

That is also what I took from this statement:

"It is like putting straw before gold."

I would like to hear what Markos has to say on the subject.


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Offlinenoisycricket
Your FriendlyNeighborhoodCricket
Registered: 05/15/02
Posts: 161
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Revelation]
    #1401311 - 03/22/03 05:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

And so God vanishes in a poof of logic. :grin:


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I'm just a field researcher for Hitchhikers Guide to The Galaxy.

My entry so far.... "shrooms: Mostly harmless"

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: noisycricket]
    #1401539 - 03/22/03 07:18 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Faith (a focusing technique) is the means... god is the nonexistent end.

Kierkegaard had the balls to agree with the first... Nietzsche the second.


Of course, I'm just the village asshole... pay no attention...


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1403176 - 03/23/03 11:10 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Try not to be too humble, Sclorch.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1404807 - 03/24/03 03:02 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Not if you are seeking proof so you can have faith.


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Always Smi2le

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/12/99
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: GazzBut]
    #1405112 - 03/24/03 05:48 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

GazzBut: Not if you are seeking proof so you can have faith.

Think more.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1405166 - 03/24/03 06:08 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I have faith that Sclorch is a real, live human being, but I have no proof. :smile: 


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Swami]
    #1405178 - 03/24/03 06:12 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

That's not true Swami... I sent you that one picture of me in a vintage dinner jacket.

Bah... that would only be evidence anyway, right?
Hell, you could meet me and then appeal to solipsism... hehehehe


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1405260 - 03/24/03 06:41 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Or I could meet you and run off screaming, "Get this psycho away from me!" with you shouting obsceneties after me through your bullhorn ; and later pretend that you don't exist.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineViBrAnT
WaRpInG &sPiRaLiNg
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 286
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1405274 - 03/24/03 06:46 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

God likes merry go rounds. Having faith is very important in contacting the eternal moment, mind is the doorway, knowing kicks down the doorway.


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1405293 - 03/24/03 06:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

There are an infinite number of concepts of which there is no proof; so having faith in any one of them will lead to some greater understanding?

Make 'em no sense to me poor swami-brain.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1405459 - 03/24/03 07:56 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

You are saying Faith does not require proof so trying to prove god means you have no faith?

Mental Semantic gymnastics.

Try thinking less/feeling more!  :grin:

PEACE 


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Always Smi2le

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: GazzBut]
    #1405523 - 03/24/03 08:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Try thinking less/feeling more!

So if I feel like cheating on my wife, I should "just do it" rather than thinking about the possible consequences?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleClove
In Fruit
Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 2
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Swami]
    #1405916 - 03/24/03 10:52 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

shouldn't that actually be proof of god negates faith in god. and you are only talking about existance I assume, because intention can never really be proven, only surmised.

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Anonymous

Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: GazzBut]
    #1406106 - 03/24/03 12:06 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Try thinking less/feeling more!

exactly what this world doesnt need...

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Swami]
    #1407082 - 03/24/03 08:20 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Thats not what I meant, more semantic gymnastics. But hey if you have some wild oats to sew perhaps you'd better get to it!  :grin: 


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Always Smi2le

Edited by GazzBut (03/24/03 08:20 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: GazzBut]
    #1407420 - 03/25/03 01:50 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Then why not say exactly what you mean. I offered a valid interpretation of your words with no gymnastics involved.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: Swami]
    #1410033 - 03/25/03 09:30 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Then why not say exactly what you mean. I offered a valid interpretation of your words with no gymnastics involved.




For me to say exactly what I mean without there being any chance of misunderstanding is impossible. Everything said by anyone is open to interpretation and anyway I said think less, not dont think at all.


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Always Smi2le

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Proof of God undermines Faith in God [Re: GazzBut]
    #1410349 - 03/26/03 03:33 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

A valid premise should still hold true in extremes. The act that I described certainly encompassed the parameters of "thinking less" and "feeling more".


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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