The Ecstatic said:

The context here is that (some) Americans were concerned Hillary would start a war with Russia

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The Ecstatic said:

She was going off about Crimea back in 2014 and making allusions to Hitler.

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mushboy said:

The Ecstatic said:

The context here is that (some) Americans were concerned Hillary would start a war with Russia

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the context was putin being afraid of hillary for whichever reason.

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The Ecstatic said:

mushboy said:

The Ecstatic said:

The context here is that (some) Americans were concerned Hillary would start a war with Russia

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the context was putin being afraid of hillary for whichever reason.

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Probably the same reason Americans said they were: her history of warmongering.

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Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The context here is that (some) Americans were concerned Hillary would start a war with Russia

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KevinDontWave said:

The Ecstatic said:

She was going off about Crimea back in 2014 and making allusions to Hitler.

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When Russia annexed Crimea?

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Quote:

You could make this same argument about Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Libya, Korea.

The wariness was about being involved in a war, after decades of trying to play world police and it not paying off for Americans, the worst of which was the Iraq War. Bernie was against it, Trump was against it, Hillary was for it. “Well Saddam started it!” would have been a pretty stupid defense.

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Ice9 said:

Let's be honest, she is an easy person to dislike.  It's not anything she does intentionally in my opinion, she simply lacks rizz.  A lot of people vote based on really nebulous bullshit like "relatability" and "likeability".  A woman was always going to have trouble in those areas with a certain subset of the populace, and years of dragging by the Republicans for things that may or may not have been in her control had the intended effect of spreading that opinion wider.  The language used to attack Hillary had overt and covert misogyny.  A lot of people here don't want to admit the role that played in the election, and while not everyone that dislikes Hillary is a misogynist, implicit bias from misogyny made it much easier to dislike her for traits many would consider a positive in a man.

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Psilynut2 said:

Quote:

You could make this same argument about Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Libya, Korea.

The wariness was about being involved in a war, after decades of trying to play world police and it not paying off for Americans, the worst of which was the Iraq War. Bernie was against it, Trump was against it, Hillary was for it. “Well Saddam started it!” would have been a pretty stupid defense.

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  Right , but I'm not making an argument . Just  pointing out some fucked up bizarre shit that makes no sense to me .
    We all  heard lies about Afghanistan  and Iraq , from our govt .  I kinda expect  my govt to lie, that's normal .
   
    I don't remember hearing lies from my fellow American citizens about it  though  .
  All those lies I pointed  out were told to me by average joes , like Jimmy Dore ,  people here ,  some clown named sparrowsquirell234 or something like that ,  one of my neighbors ,  all kinds of Americans decided it was in their best interest to lie on Putin's behalf . 
    That's fucking mind boggling to me .
  You didn't tell any of those lies right ? You're not that weird are you ?

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mushboy said:

Bigbadwooof said:

it was used as a rhetorical cudgel to weaponize gender against the Bernie campaign.

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Yes that’s why he lost. A old white male career politician who lost a lot should have won but didn’t because of sexism against .. old white men?

Or it was his proven unelectability???

Fucking hilarious.

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Bigbadwooof said:

It is a constant problem.

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The Ecstatic said:

I have to, because nobody on this forum says what they actually think.

Either way, I’m not going to relitigate the Democratic primaries for the 1000th time here. But this idea that America is in the political reality it’s in because Bernie fans were too misogynistic and Trump-like is incredibly stupid.

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We are in the position we’re in because liberalism is fundamentally incapable of addressing the contradictions inherent to capitalism, especially when so much of our electoral process is dictated BY capital. And your typical Warren supporter wants to thread the needle between “we need to change things for the good” and “changing things for the good is impossible (and even possibly bad).” That’s why candidates like her cannot win. It’s why Biden has, despite a pretty successful first term, struggled to keep voters on his side.

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