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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Quote:
Simplicitry said:
Quote:
Shins said: I think the ones who pull the trigger hold the biggest moral responsibility.
The majority of military personnel aren't trigger pullers, and pulling a trigger is lawful many times. Even moral many times. That always depends on circumstances
Thats why soldiers and governments need to be kept to the highest standards, its also possible to be responsible for good things.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Juicin]
#19277616 - 12/15/13 03:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Juicin said: Holy shit dude you're talking in circles.
Think about what you said, then apply that to yourself. Let's assume your country's government armed forces has done something inappropriate. You by paying even a penny of federal tax are just as culpable as the men who carried out the "illegal" operation.
So just to be clear, you have still have the high ground if you pay taxes.
I doubt I need to explain to you why people hate corporate mercenaries. And clearly just because you pay taxes you don't lose the right to have an opinion of the scum
If my country does something reprehensible I am not criminally culpable for that action. Nobody is arguing that and it baffles me that you can't understand that I'm not arguing that. I never said that
What I said was
If your country does something you think is reprehensible, and continues to do so ( in this case the example being the anti-war crowd), and you continue to willfully and peacefully pay taxes to that government when you have other options available. Then in that instance you have no moral high ground to stand on and look down on military service personnel. Thinking otherwise is hypocrisy. At that point you have willfully chosen to continue financial support of the war that you're looking down on military personnel for executing. The military personnel are not the source of the policy, the government you've chosen to financially support is
Again, don't confuse yourself any further, no one is talking about criminal culpability. I'm not even saying you're morally responsible for everything your government does. What I am saying is that once a government commit an act, and continues to carry it out if you remain compliant with that government and continue to financially support it then you share some of the moral burden of those actions as long as you continue to support that government
Put in the most simple terms you are morally responsible for things you finance as long as you continue to willfully finance them.
Simple enough to understand right?
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Icelander]
#19277644 - 12/15/13 03:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Icelander said: Most of the people I know in the military went in for the money and education.
That's a good reason to join. I can find no fault in that. I've said in this thread already. But just to clarify, I've never been the kind of person that thought that someone should be put on a pedestal just for joining the armed services.
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Icelander]
#19277821 - 12/15/13 05:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The last few pages are a perfect example of what I was talking about in that PM, Icelander. Simplicitry has dug himself so deeply into an indefensible position that he can't back down even though the absurdity of his argument is apparent to everyone including himself.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19277953 - 12/15/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The last few pages are a perfect example of what I was talking about in that PM, Icelander. Simplicitry has dug himself so deeply into an indefensible position that he can't back down even though the absurdity of his argument is apparent to everyone including himself.
Being morally responsible for what you willfully finance is absurd. Please explain how for me and the other readers. Your just in denial over the fact that you are as guilty of the war dead as anybody else contributing to the coalition forces including soldiers. You're in denial that's all
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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*you're
And I was talking ABOUT you...not to you. Your interpretation of the word "willfully" is the absurd part. You're not going to get it, so there's no point in trying to help you do so. Maybe after a decade or so of growth, you will.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19277968 - 12/15/13 06:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The last few pages are a perfect example of what I was talking about in that PM, Icelander. Simplicitry has dug himself so deeply into an indefensible position that he can't back down even though the absurdity of his argument is apparent to everyone including himself.
You do acknowledge the fact that you can move to a country that doesn't contribute to the coalition forces and pay taxes there correct.That means your financial support of the wars is not mandatory. That's just your bullshit cop out. You willfully support a government that you think executes unjust wars and kills innocent people, and then you look down your nose at the military personnel that the government uses to carry out that objective. Nothing absurd about my belief that makes you a hypocrite
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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You do realize that moving to another country doesn't exempt you from the requirement to pay U.S. taxes, right?
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19277973 - 12/15/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enlil said: *you're
And I was talking ABOUT you...not to you.
I know the difference and I hate to break it to you buddy but your spelling and grammar isn't good enough for you to get all high and mighty about others.
and I don't care who you were talking to or about I'll speak my mind as I please
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19277974 - 12/15/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enlil said: You do realize that moving to another country doesn't exempt you from the requirement to pay U.S. taxes, right?
You do realize there are legal ways to not pay taxes to the US government for the rest of your life right?
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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By your logic, rape victims are responsible for being raped because they didn't die in the process of fighting it...Being forced to do something under threat of violence isn't doing it "willfully", regardless or how you need it to be in order for your convoluted, absurd theory to be even close to valid.
Society is responsible for the wars, sure. Individuals within that collective society, however, may or may not be responsible. Your inability to wrap your head around this concept makes the discussion pointless.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19277998 - 12/15/13 07:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enlil said: By your logic, rape victims are responsible for being raped because they didn't die in the process of fighting it...Being forced to do something under threat of violence isn't doing it "willfully", regardless or how you need it to be in order for your convoluted, absurd theory to be even close to valid.
Society is responsible for the wars, sure. Individuals within that collective society, however, may or may not be responsible. Your inability to wrap your head around this concept makes the discussion pointless.
Every analogy that every person has posted in this thread has been to pathetic. Rape victims don't have a choice. you on the other hand do have a choice. It doesn't matter how much you pretend you don't you in fact do, and you willfully chosen to support this government after it committed the acts that you were against. Which I'm truly fine with. You just shouldn't act like you have some high horse to sit on because that makes you a hypocrite
I'll ask you again. You do realize there are legal ways that you don't have to pay the US government taxes for the rest of your life don't you? Yeah, like I said willfull financial support
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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People born in the U.S. don't have a choice either. You just think they do. Frankly, the majority of the world doesn't have a choice. Almost everyone in every industrialized country is supporting the war under your theory because their actions ultimately support the U.S. government financially.
You're living in a boolean dream world that doesn't exist. You've dug your heels into your position and you're unable to think clearly about it anymore. You keep repeating the same shit over and over as if that makes it more true or valid. Really, you're just making an absurd philosophical point that has zero basis in truth or reality.
Again, we've gone in circles quite enough here.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19278034 - 12/15/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enlil said: People born in the U.S. don't have a choice either. You just think they do. Frankly, the majority of the world doesn't have a choice. Almost everyone in every industrialized country is supporting the war under your theory because their actions ultimately support the U.S. government financially.
You're living in a boolean dream world that doesn't exist. You've dug your heels into your position and you're unable to think clearly about it anymore. You keep repeating the same shit over and over as if that makes it more true or valid. Really, you're just making an absurd philosophical point that has zero basis in truth or reality.
Again, we've gone in circles quite enough here.
Have we gone around enough? Did I invite you back to the conversation? I don't care if you participate in it or not
You do have a choice. Are you not going acknowledge that there are ways to not pay the US government taxes for the rest of your life? That's what makes it willful. No matter how much you lie about not having a choice it's still a lie. You have other choices you've just obviously decided those other choices were unacceptable to you
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Simplicitry said: Did I invite you back to the conversation?
Yes, when you said:
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Simplicitry said: Please explain how for me and the other readers.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19278060 - 12/15/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Simplicitry said: Did I invite you back to the conversation?
Yes, when you said:
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Simplicitry said: Please explain how for me and the other readers.
No, you had already come back dropping my name at that point
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19278064 - 12/15/13 07:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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are you not going to acknowledge the fact that there are legal ways to not pay the US government taxes for the rest of your life?
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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It's possible if "the rest of your life" is measured in minutes and seconds, sure.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
#19278084 - 12/15/13 07:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: It's possible if "the rest of your life" is measured in minutes and seconds, sure.
You are unaware that there are former citizens of the United States that no longer have to pay US taxes? Because if you are you shouldn't be.
and any amount of time can be measured in minutes and seconds
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,499
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I seriously doubt that there are any former citizens of the united states that do not willingly engage in conduct that leads to more U.S. taxes being paid.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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