Bigbadwooof said:

Lynnch said:

Bigbadwooof said:

Democrats are too hawkish, and anti-democracy. Nowadays they are beyond the pale, prosecuting their opponents, like we're some 3rd world junk "republic", and making moves against our freedom of speech. Democrats are responsible for Americans having the largest prison population in the world (aside from China, by a very small margin).

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Right-wing bullshit, all of that. It's sad to watch you be a useful idiot for fascists.

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They have literally changed laws in order to prosecute Trump.

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sudly said:

Trump isn't being prosecuted for speech, that statement is stupid. If by now that's where your conclusion has landed, you're not interested, you're not paying attention, you don't care.

Trump gutted the EPA.

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Ice9 said:

Bigbadwooof said:

Lynnch said:

Bigbadwooof said:

Democrats are too hawkish, and anti-democracy. Nowadays they are beyond the pale, prosecuting their opponents, like we're some 3rd world junk "republic", and making moves against our freedom of speech. Democrats are responsible for Americans having the largest prison population in the world (aside from China, by a very small margin).

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Right-wing bullshit, all of that. It's sad to watch you be a useful idiot for fascists.

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They have literally changed laws in order to prosecute Trump.

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Which laws would those be?

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Bigbadwooof said:

sudly said:

Trump isn't being prosecuted for speech, that statement is stupid. If by now that's where your conclusion has landed, you're not interested, you're not paying attention, you don't care.

Trump gutted the EPA.

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I never said Trump was being prosecuted for speech.

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I'm glad you recognise trump isn't being prosecuted for free speech as he's said he is multiple times.

It's pretty hard to prove defamation but apparently a jury did rule trump assaulted and defamed her.

Quote:

A new law in New York is behind the civil lawsuit brought by E. Jean Carroll against Donald Trump, and survivors hope the spotlight put on it by this week’s verdict against the former president means more people might use it. 

The law opened a one-time window for adult sexual assault survivors in New York to file a civil case against an abuser or institution that protected the abuser — no matter when the assault took place, even if it’s outside the statute of limitations. But that window expires in six months. 

The law, which has a one-year window through late November, follows a 2019 law that expanded opportunities for survivors of child sexual assault to file civil lawsuits.

Advocacy groups are hopeful that the Carroll case may encourage more people to step forward. Tamika Payne, acting executive director of the New York State Coalition Against Sexual Assault, noted that it takes a long time for survivors to get to a place where they can endure going through the legal system and the scrutiny that may come with that. 

On Tuesday, a jury determined that Carroll did not prove her allegation of rape but agreed Trump is liable for sexual abuse and defamation. They awarded her $5 million in damages.

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Bigbadwooof said:

Fake electors scheme? Tell me more about that one.

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Quote:

In 2023, former President Donald Trump is being prosecuted for his involvement in a scheme known as the "fake electors" plot, which unfolded in the aftermath of the 2020 United States presidential election. This scheme involved an attempt to overturn the election results by creating and submitting fraudulent certificates of ascertainment in seven key swing states, falsely asserting that Trump had won the electoral college vote in those states, instead of Joe Biden. The intent was to pass these fraudulent certificates to then-Vice President Mike Pence with the hope that he would count them instead of the authentic certificates, thereby overturning Biden's victory. This plan was based on a fringe legal theory that claimed the vice president had the constitutional discretion to swap official electors with an alternate slate during the certification process, thus changing the outcome of the electoral college vote​​.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot

The role of these fake elector slates in Trump's effort to maintain power is central to a four-count indictment against him. The indictment details a massive and prolonged effort to "impair, obstruct, and defeat" the federal process for certifying presidential election results, culminating in the attack on the Capitol on January 6, 2021. Trump and his allies, unable to persuade state officials to illegally swing the election in his favor, began recruiting fake electors in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin to sign certificates falsely stating that Trump had won these states. This action was part of what federal prosecutors describe as "a corrupt plan to subvert the federal government function by stopping Biden electors’ votes from being counted and certified"​​.

This scheme included recruitment and retention of fake electors, with Trump and attorney John Eastman asking Ronna McDaniel, the chair of the Republican National Committee, to assist in recruiting electors in the targeted states. The fake electors plan began in Wisconsin with a memorandum from Kenneth Chesebro, an attorney assisting the Trump campaign. It then expanded to other states, creating slates of "fraudulent electors" for Trump with the end goal of preventing Biden from receiving the necessary 270 electoral votes on January 6. However, prosecutors allege that winning in court was never the real plan, but rather to falsely present these fraudulent slates as alternatives to the legitimate ones during Congress’s certification proceeding​​.

https://www.columbian.com/news/2023/aug/02/how-the-trump-fake-electors-scheme-became-a-corrupt-plan-according-to-the-indictment/

A federal indictment issued against Trump included a charge related to the fake electors scheme, indicating that he and co-conspirators sought these phony electors to support his false claims of winning the 2020 election against Joe Biden​​. The Smith special counsel investigation is further investigating Trump's role in these events, with testimony revealing that Trump was fully aware of the fake electors plan and knew that Eastman's plan for Pence to obstruct the certification of electoral votes was a violation of the Electoral Count Act​​.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-fake-electors-scheme-trump-supporters-tried-after-his-2020-loss-2023-07-18/#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20Aug%201%20%28Reuters%29%20,election%20against%20Democrat%20Joe%20Biden

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sudly said:

I'm glad you recognise trump isn't being prosecuted for free speech as he's said he is multiple times.

It's pretty hard to prove defamation but apparently a jury did rule trump assaulted and defamed her.

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Quote:

And trump has already been found liable of fraud, that's pretty simple, he over inflated the value of his properties like Mar a Lego.

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sudly said:

Bigbadwooof said:

Fake electors scheme? Tell me more about that one.

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Not sure how solid this case is, unlike the fraud one.

Quote:

In 2023, former President Donald Trump is being prosecuted for his involvement in a scheme known as the "fake electors" plot, which unfolded in the aftermath of the 2020 United States presidential election. This scheme involved an attempt to overturn the election results by creating and submitting fraudulent certificates of ascertainment in seven key swing states, falsely asserting that Trump had won the electoral college vote in those states, instead of Joe Biden. The intent was to pass these fraudulent certificates to then-Vice President Mike Pence with the hope that he would count them instead of the authentic certificates, thereby overturning Biden's victory. This plan was based on a fringe legal theory that claimed the vice president had the constitutional discretion to swap official electors with an alternate slate during the certification process, thus changing the outcome of the electoral college vote​​.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot

The role of these fake elector slates in Trump's effort to maintain power is central to a four-count indictment against him. The indictment details a massive and prolonged effort to "impair, obstruct, and defeat" the federal process for certifying presidential election results, culminating in the attack on the Capitol on January 6, 2021. Trump and his allies, unable to persuade state officials to illegally swing the election in his favor, began recruiting fake electors in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin to sign certificates falsely stating that Trump had won these states. This action was part of what federal prosecutors describe as "a corrupt plan to subvert the federal government function by stopping Biden electors’ votes from being counted and certified"​​.

This scheme included recruitment and retention of fake electors, with Trump and attorney John Eastman asking Ronna McDaniel, the chair of the Republican National Committee, to assist in recruiting electors in the targeted states. The fake electors plan began in Wisconsin with a memorandum from Kenneth Chesebro, an attorney assisting the Trump campaign. It then expanded to other states, creating slates of "fraudulent electors" for Trump with the end goal of preventing Biden from receiving the necessary 270 electoral votes on January 6. However, prosecutors allege that winning in court was never the real plan, but rather to falsely present these fraudulent slates as alternatives to the legitimate ones during Congress’s certification proceeding​​.

https://www.columbian.com/news/2023/aug/02/how-the-trump-fake-electors-scheme-became-a-corrupt-plan-according-to-the-indictment/

A federal indictment issued against Trump included a charge related to the fake electors scheme, indicating that he and co-conspirators sought these phony electors to support his false claims of winning the 2020 election against Joe Biden​​. The Smith special counsel investigation is further investigating Trump's role in these events, with testimony revealing that Trump was fully aware of the fake electors plan and knew that Eastman's plan for Pence to obstruct the certification of electoral votes was a violation of the Electoral Count Act​​.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-fake-electors-scheme-trump-supporters-tried-after-his-2020-loss-2023-07-18/#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20Aug%201%20%28Reuters%29%20,election%20against%20Democrat%20Joe%20Biden

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Bigbadwooof said:

sudly said:

I'm glad you recognise trump isn't being prosecuted for free speech as he's said he is multiple times.

It's pretty hard to prove defamation but apparently a jury did rule trump assaulted and defamed her.

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They changed the law so they could go after him in that case. As I said, it was politically motivated. It's Democrats weaponizing the justice system to go after their political opponent, and that's what I'm against.

Quote:

And trump has already been found liable of fraud, that's pretty simple, he over inflated the value of his properties like Mar a Lego.

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I don't believe Trump necessarily did inflate the value of that property, but nobody can really say. The valuation methodology they used was entirely inappropriate to use in this case, because it's not an assessment of fair market value. It was an artificial assessment for tax purposes that had nothing to do with the actual fair market value of the property.

The fact of the matter is, the bank accepted the value that Trump placed on the property, and Trump paid off the loan. The bank didn't come after Trump, the state did, on behalf of the hypothetical interest that the bank may have lost out on, if Trump got a worse rate on the loan.

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koods said:

I think it’s one of the strongest parts of the case because they have evidence that trump personally pushed this scheme that involved unambiguously illegal activity - the forgery of official documents.

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Bigbadwooof said:

Ice9 said:

Bigbadwooof said:

Bigbadwooof said:

Democrats are too hawkish, and anti-democracy. Nowadays they are beyond the pale, prosecuting their opponents, like we're some 3rd world junk "republic", and making moves against our freedom of speech. Democrats are responsible for Americans having the largest prison population in the world (aside from China, by a very small margin).

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They have literally changed laws in order to prosecute Trump.

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Which laws would those be?

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Here's one example, but I don't believe it's the only one:

Quote:

Within hours of the law going into effect in late November, Carroll filed a battery and defamation civil suit against Trump. (She filed a separate defamation suit in 2019 that has been postponed.)

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Quote:

It took a change in law to hold Trump accountable in New York. Mass. should follow its lead.

E. Jean Carroll was only able to bring her lawsuit against the former president because of a change in New York law.

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And this current fraud case they are pressing against him is fucking ridiculous. They are suing him for supposedly overvaluing his property to get a loan. A loan which he has already paid back. So they are suing him on behalf of the banks, for hypothetical interest they may have received, had he gotten a shittier rate on his loan.

The banks didn't even initiate the lawsuit, the prosecutor did. It's entirely politically motivated, and while I detest Donald Trump, this is something I find unacceptable in this country, and so should you.

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koods said:

Trump valued mar-a-lago at $350 million ten years ago. That’s off by at least $200 million.

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