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People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. * 1
    #25023726 -

LOL.

can we haz another death anxiety thread?

i mean, we don't need one. but we could have one- just like we could have a lot of things.

it's inescapable. no one can even broach this subject without the ignition sputtering into a new direction to engulf. it's impossible. there is no solving any of the problems in the human condition- we can organize things in differing ways, but there will always be the same problems- because we humans are incredibly simplistic, to the point of absurdity; which is why we can never truly change. we can feel change, assess it in our environment and in ourselves, we can promote change, will ourselves to change (like someone can will themselves to do any number of terrible or mundane things), but we can never change this-- we are unable to deal with death's encroachment, and everyone deals with it in determined ways that are bound for tragedy, for certain individuals whom will have to assert themselves within the echos of stressors they cannot control, or affirmatively destroy- with pleasure seeking exercises, spiritual discipline, et al.

due to the uncontrollable nature of life, from resources, to psychopathology, to the innate need for certainty, we will never conform to another notion outside of the box where undefinable anxiety resides, in where you know "I exist in this" is nothing more than an illusion of thought and a distraction to the ultimate claim that utters itself in indefinite silence, "I am still alive".

we have one method for normal people: survive. the prerogative is simple.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 4
    #25024277 -

unless one is engaged with something compelling, one can loop endlessly about unsatisfactoriness of our condition.

I resort to watching mental contents, and or the breath, when not otherwise engaged.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25024312 -

I can't wait to die. Anxiety over the most mundane of things, death, makes no sense.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

Edited by LRG (02/26/18 04:22 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: LRG]
    #25024372 -

to define death you must first define life

without which you wouldn't have concept of death


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25024402 -

LRG said:
I can't wait to die. Anxiety over the most mundane of things, death, makes no sense.


are you living on the edge?

Green7Alchemist said:
to define death you must first define life

without which you wouldn't have concept of death


life is just a form of animated death.

redgreenvines said:
unless one is engaged with something compelling, one can loop endlessly about unsatisfactoriness of our condition.

I resort to watching mental contents, and or the breath, when not otherwise engaged.


yes, i know.

i think people should general get more creative though, and less, you know...boring.

i'm sick of this "let's just meander and death comes and life is practically meaningless" schtick.

but i need other people to come along with me...but i'm not Jesus so, no one is interested. :tongue: they wouldn't be interested in you, either. no one is interested in anything, to any great degree, without it feeding into their narcissism as a means of staving off the inevitable. there are interesting things- yes, this is true. but it is devoid of real meaning without some kind of rationale to question and answer repetitions- which is why religions exist. some boundless intelligence of some kind that can be responded to in forms of thought, whereas the thinker who's receiving thought can learn something, even if it's repeated ad nauseam, sort of like a negative feedback loop- sort of like what happens biologically within relationships- ie, a power struggle- but for those with an "almighty God", it's a matter of propensity to surrender unto this deity- a silly conclusion if you ask me, but nevertheless, the point stands; people need this feedback loop, whether in the form of a God, or in form of those who will partake in one's very games- tis why it's so likely for people to aim to fall into predetermined groups/schools of thought, because it is the path of least resistance, it is easier- it is easier because people will listen, there is instant gratification.

this...this is not boring.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25024899 -

Anxiety is like a carapace.. if you have it, it will swallow up your emotions, and turn you into a corpse..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25024949 -

now, you bring up a really interesting aspect to all this, for me...how much is too much? how much is allowable?

huh? :wink:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: LRG] * 1
    #25025131 -

LRG said:
I can't wait to die. Anxiety over the most mundane of things, death, makes no sense.


This. Death means that consciousness returns to God and is liberated from all suffering. What's to fear? One fears only insofar as one clings to the world.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25025145 -

sure. easier said than done. go and go back to "God" then...oh wait...that's against "the rules". :wink:

now, i'm just saying...you're postulating something easier said than "done".

but your overall point, i think, is well resonated.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25025306 -

Dying isn't easy. It's easier than living, though.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25025316 -

akira_akuma said:
now, you bring up a really interesting aspect to all this, for me...how much is too much? how much is allowable?

huh? :wink:


How much?
That's not for us to answer.

And that may be the point.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25025679 -

viktor said:
LRG said:
I can't wait to die. Anxiety over the most mundane of things, death, makes no sense.


This. Death means that consciousness returns to God and is liberated from all suffering. What's to fear? One fears only insofar as one clings to the world.


I'm with you guys on this one. I look forward to it with great fondness and excitement.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #25025698 -

I can only understand having anxiety over something when there is a choice present. Its totally nonsensical to worry about inevitability. Theres not even a reason to think about it. its a complete dead end. Therefore I have no fear around the subject.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #25025844 -

dying is not easy,
being dead is easy,
living is not easy because the mind is wildly rooting through perceptions and predictions, like looping, and yes with plenty of feedback.
joining groups and disengaging to follow the leader is not a good solution.
That also is boring.

But what does boring mean?
Unsatisfactory. insufficient to distract one from just rooting through perceptions and predictions.

maybe with a group you get a modicum of Likes :heart: and that makes a tiny squirt of dopamine. DOPE.

still actually boring or unsatisfactory.

So this death topic - maybe that will mean something to every one, more :heart: 's more dopamine, more meaning?!? - Nope, it's just repetition.

like talking about Hockey or Football, scores count, games count, trophies count, money talks. don't forget the BEER! - boring. repetitive.

so my interest is mind, while alive, while subject to death, subject to boredom, subject to craving and dope, and I like to do my non-dope trick of bare awareness, which is difficult (but not as difficult as dying, nor as difficult as writhing around in boredom), otherwise I do useful stuff, working - job, cleaning, market, loving, eating, sleeping, or painting which is not too easy and gets :heart: 's and a bit of Dopamine, or the shroomery, just chatting with you guys/girls never really sure.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25025946 -

death is a part of life or it can be argued that life and death are both illusions from which a greater understanding is veiled.

hence rendering life and death into a bin of wtf's and misunderstandings.

as far as anxiety of death, i would say i have some form of it, for me anxiety comes from expectations of the inevitable, and to ponder over this life is to also wonder over death as it is an inescapable factor of our lives.

i have to agree death in itself is not easy, illness's like the process of cancer in particular is not an easy things to witness as the body slowly shuts off an decays while you lay powerless to its grip on your death bed, that is scary.

however this is not a fear OF death, it is an inevitable inescapable part of life, to fear death would be like to fear eating, its part of life that has also gone thru its death process.

but to speak generally people feel fear of dying because life forever remains too short, that is why we travel light, forgive much and regret nothing, all things we must do while still alive.


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25025981 -

viktor said:
Dying isn't easy. It's easier than living, though.


it's also easy to see that if we didn't have that "drive", we'd have a mind that functions 100% entirely different in terms of positive-incentive value (which definitely, due to how our brains work, concerning dopamine, and pain-gating, makes "set theory" contentious), and we'd probably not have the same aspects of tribal/civilization, probably would see less an expansion into civilization and tribal culling would probably be more consistent, as there'd be less fear of death, and thus, less likelihood that tribes will survive without being culled into extinction.

let's just say, we'd have a very different world.

Jokeshopbeard said:
I'm with you guys on this one. I look forward to it with great fondness and excitement.


and when they guy comes waving a gun around, or whatever...your words will ring empty and hollow.

see, this is what i'm talking about...people lying to themselves. :lol: they have to!

Edited by akira_akuma (02/27/18 11:10 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25026044 -

I think you confuse the natural, biological instinct of the organism with the spiritual and emotional acceptance of what is to come.

Of course, if I man were to come at me with a knife, my physical organism would resist and fight it in every way possible. This is unavoidable. It is animal instinct.

This has nothing to do with having prior accepted ones demise, or in fact looking forward to it.

PS - I do not appreciate you insinuating several members above of lying to themselves akira. Watch your steps here. You are on thin fucking ice.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25026063 -

Quote:
PS - I do not appreciate you insinuating several members above of lying to themselves akira. Watch your steps here. You are on thin fucking ice.


could you stop this witch hunt bullshit? i've done nothing wrong and insinuated no one. i literally have done nothing to insult, defame, disrespect, or cuss, at anyone...literally. ENOUGH OF THIS. i just disagree with you and Viktor (to an extent), that is ALL that is being said here. (several members...you mean just YOU, by the fucking way.)

i can say people lie to themselves. there is no rules against DISCUSSION of OPINIONS. this is the PSP forum...you're obviously a real bad fit for moderator here.

and i've agreed with people here, as well, but i would still say they are lying to themselves.

question, class: would Icelander be threatened with a ban for telling others that they lie to themselves? is this acceptable, if so?

anyways, stop threatening me, you're going too far with this witchhunt crap. no one here has done anything wrong, let alone myself. YOU ARE OUT OF LINE.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/27/18 11:18 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026075 -

Quote:
I think you confuse the natural, biological instinct of the organism with the spiritual and emotional acceptance of what is to come.

Of course, if I man were to come at me with a knife, my physical organism would resist and fight it in every way possible. This is unavoidable. It is animal instinct.

This has nothing to do with having prior accepted ones demise, or in fact looking forward to it.


i think you're just, erm not telling yourself the truth, when you say that you would embrace death. i think you'd be like everyone else in their death bed, scared, alone, and perplexed at how you could have thought you'd be able to embrace it with open arms...and you'd probably wish for the strength to grasp at the sky in order to strangle God for what you have to witness, which is your own demise. it's painful, and terrifying. that is why i don't believe you. i think you're just telling yourself something that sounds nice that'll make you feel ok.

PS: just in case this needs be made clear for the moderator.

Quote:
This debate-oriented forum is for the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning. Topics may include epistemology, ethics, metaphysics/ontology, the psychology of mind and the sociological study of cultural and individual behavior. Personal attacks will not be tolerated, though critical analysis of the ideas presented is encouraged. If you wish to express your ideas in a less critical environment, consider visiting our Spirituality & Mysticism forum.


literally, if you don't want to debate, or have your opinions questioned, you can also use another forum, or just click "hide thread" if you don't want to participate. you don't have to come in and threaten me with a ban for nothing just because you don't like the answers you're receiving in debate, when no rules are being broken. :mad:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026088 -

akira_akuma said:
see, this is what i'm talking about...people lying to themselves. :lol: they have to!


PPS: this is piecemeal to the very topic at hand, you must realize this Jokeshop, or else why are you even....look, if you don't know that death anxiety, as a part of it's premise, conceptually, entails that people lie to themselves, right, well, then now you know.

if you didn't know, now you know. it's literally PART AND PARCEL to the concept. so i'm NOT telling you're lying to yourself, or calling you a liar MALICIOUSLY. it's just due to the nature of the subject matter, that i used the phrase "lie to yourself".

:facepalm:

now please...SERIOUSLY. you've just angered me. would you cease and desist from now on, and at least learn the subject matter FIRST before you start threatening BANS. K? could you do that, for once?

ooor am i gonna catch a ban for just sticking up for myself when i'm being threatened for no good reason? is this what it's like for certain members around here? gotta walk on eggshells even when no laws are being stepped across? i fear that it may be, with this attitude of all-pervading "lock-down" on the PSP forum's main premise, which is debate.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25026101 -

Since when did you become privy to the knowledge of what it's like for 'everyone else in their death bed'?

**You accused people of lying. That is not debate. Do it again and you're out. You can complain all you like about it, you've 0 chances left with any of the staff here akira.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026108 -

akira_akuma said:
PPS: this is piecemeal to the very topic at hand, you must realize this Jokeshop, or else why are you even....look, if you don't know that death anxiety, as a part of it's premise, conceptually, entails that people lie to themselves, right, well, then now you know.

if you didn't know, now you know. it's literally PART AND PARCEL to the concept. so i'm NOT telling you're lying to yourself, or calling you a liar MALICIOUSLY. it's just due to the nature of the subject matter, that i used the phrase "lie to yourself".


I have read tomes of work on DA. I have worked with the concept in myself for over a decade.

Don't assume that everybody works by the same rules as everybody else.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25026116 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Since when did you become privy to the knowledge of what it's like for 'everyone else in their death bed'?

**You accused people of lying. That is not debate. Do it again and you're out. You can complain all you like about it, you've 0 chances left with any of the staff here akira.


stop threatening me without a reason. i said that PEOPLE LIE TO THEMSELVES and i quote
Quote:
see, this is what i'm talking about...people lying to themselves. :lol: they have to!


PEOPLE. a GENERAL DESCRIPTOR. don't assume i work like you...i don't. i can easily point out how you are mistaken and completely out of line. don't worry, people have already been informed of your attitude and your lack of aptitude for moderating this forum. i said people lie to themselves, and i already explained why, because it's part and parcel to the very premise of DA, that people LIE TO THEMSELVES. so if i can't bring up that premise, then this forum is DEFUNCT. which is why you should not be moderating it.

Quote:
Since when did you become privy to the knowledge of what it's like for 'everyone else in their death bed'?


it's the same thing for everyone. they die in pain. it's never pleasant, and when it comes down to it, no one wants it, embraces it, or can embrace it. they simply hope that people will give let them die with some dignity- which, unironically, might include LYING TO THEM, or letting them lie to themselves...but not in the PSP forum where a lie is a form of debate that should be pointed at as such, a lie as a form of debate.

PS: just to clarify

Quote:
**You accused people of lying. That is not debate. Do it again and you're out. You can complain all you like about it, you've 0 chances left with any of the staff here akira.


you're 100% wrong. i didn't accuse anyone of lying. no accusations were made.

prove that i made an accusation, or accuse someone of lying. you can't. because nothing as such occurred. what i said was "people lie to themselves, because they have to!"

if i keep discussing this, does this count towards me "breaking the rules", even though none have been broken?

please. let me know.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/27/18 11:39 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026127 -

akira_akuma said:
it's the same thing for everyone. they die in pain. it's never pleasant, and when it comes down to it, no one wants it, embraces it, or can embrace it.


Prove it.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026128 -

just to note: death anxiety usually leads people to lie to themselves about many things, to avoid said anxiety.

this is a fact that anyone who's studied DA would know. let's debate.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25026133 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
akira_akuma said:
it's the same thing for everyone. they die in pain. it's never pleasant, and when it comes down to it, no one wants it, embraces it, or can embrace it.


Prove it.


:shrug: great, now you're not trying to breath down my neck for a simple part and parcel argument to your lack of reasoning. good. now, i can't prove it, because that'd require me to have you on your death bed, now wouldn't it?

so call it an "justified opinion" of mine.

but i do think that someone lying in their own feces, hardly able to breath, slowing dying...i don't think they'll be embracing anything but a bed pan.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026139 -

look, this thread is over, close it. i'm not going to allow myself to be threatened because i am discussing the VERY PREMISE of Death Anxiety, which is how people lie to themselves in order to avoid that anxiety.

because of this, however, this forum is DEFUNCT as a place of debate. there is too much emotional baggage in this forum's moderation staff for this place to even live up to it's function.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026145 -

akira_akuma said:
so call it an "justified opinion" of mine.


Sounds like the entire premise of your thread. You use the same to promote the idea that everyone goes to the end with DA, and that if one does not, one is lying to themselves, thereby providing yourself with a watertight argument that no one can disprove, but you cannot prove.

Well done.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25026149 -

it's proven everyday when people die in agony. you can act stoic as much as you like. you're not providing any debate. you're too emotionally invested.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026151 -

wtf guys lmao...

ill get in my post before yall prematurely close this lol.

i have to disagree, i would say that person is embracing death indefinitely.

they are close to death, idk how that would look for you but i imagine that said person must feel alienated while at the same time alienating him or herself from others... as a cat does before its final hours.


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #25026158 -

guys? not me. it's him who is getting all uppity from some fairly basic type responses for a DA thread. yes, people lie to themselves about how they handle DA.

imagine my shock. :shrug: that's part and parcel to the whole premise. but Jokeshopbeard thinks that's against the rules, so this thread should probably be closed. just close it, "mods". because i don't want to get banned for nothing AGAIN.

Quote:
as a cat does before its final hours.


now things just...damn...i really loved my cat, and when she did this...i lashed out, and was like "goddamn it, she's sick all over and hiding, bad kitty!"

and now i'm SADSMAN.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25026183 -

people exhibit the same behavior when faced with a terminal illness.

i feel as if for us to avoid any form of anxiety from death we must A) leave behind a legacy we are proud of and B) know for certain what we will be facing upon death, will we see that mysterious "white light" or will we just fade into black orrr face our maker and answer for our actions on earth... all this brings DA, it may be something that is inescapable.

when people have near death experiences they tend to come out of them with a sense of longing for the spiritual, i dont think that these people or latching onto lies but rather they are trying to work out their salvation or make sense out of this reality.


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #25026201 -

i agree, but i think it's lying. i don't give as much of a negative connotation to the word "lie" though. :shrug: i think it's pretty natural, and i think we lie to ourselves in terms of spirituality, but also in terms of reasoning, too.

it's be unreasonable, methinks, to disallow one to lie to themselves, because ultimately no one knows the answers of "what's beyond death" and anything we DO know is simply an assumption- because it's "death". if you aren't "dead", you aren't "in death", so there is no way to know what is beyond the wall of sleep, so to speak, (to be bad-ass and quote a Black Sabbath song title). of course, i'm making the argument that those who have "come back" from death, have experienced hallucinations and whether or not these experiences are valid spiritual experiences is past the point- the point is, to know, you have to know, not be "almost sure", which is the limit, the upward apex of what we can know about death, because in death, you're dead. there is no knowing; at least, not in any way that we know how to know, or "realize". for all anyone "knows", those who've come back may have had dream-like hallucinations, either upon return, or upon the moment of their absolute death.

i don't begrudge people this process. i also don't begrudge people who are simply unsure of how to approach the truth (ie, whom are promulgating non-intentional lies, ie, spiritual "truths" taken as fact, ect) -- because the "truth" encompasses such a wide spectrum of knowledge, it's impossible deny yourself questioning things, even if you have incomplete information, due to survival instincts that are in-born.

the truth begins in lies (but that's a different thread)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25026244 -

to know what is on the other side is virtually impossible we can take experiences like the ones you mentioned and also draw from science and psychology in order to make educated guesses but it would only be that at best.

for example, this life is an illusion, due to its atomic properties and how they are assembled and perceived behind the walls of our brain, that in turns renders death itself an illusion within an illusion.

so in that way we know for certain these few things, everything we see before us in the micro-verse does not appear in the same format code as it does in the macro-verse and we know this to be due to the nature of atoms and how they bond but to continue down this illusion we can only perceive the object once light has reached our eye and then relates the message to the brain, the brain generates electricity and energy cannot be created nor destroyed only transferred from one space to another, now this seems like an elaborate lie i tell myself to make me feel as if i will continue to exist in a different form, but this is what we know energy cannot be created not destroyed.

so it would seem to me that there both life and death are illusions.


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

Edited by Green7Alchemist (02/27/18 12:36 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25026295 -

Really
not everyone dies in agony,
many die in their sleep,
some fade away.
many do die with pain but is it more than 25%?
some die with shock
or instantly after severe trauma (gunshot) which can be quick and relatively painless compared to a bee sting, or falling from a ladder.

the most unpleasant part of many deaths is the lack of dignity, which is a pain in the ego. They should do something about those hospital patient gowns.

I have low acceptance that death anxiety is more than general insecurity and taking things personally.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25026363 -

for me, the idea of living forever is more frightening than the idea of dying.  with an abundance of faith death comfortably passes through.

imagine living forever, now imagine living forever without love.  i can accept the Faith necessary to die, not so much eternal life.

have you ever died in a lucid dream, been shot to death or crashed your car or strangled? it's good practice for dying.

this is all of course assuming that I am not already dead.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #25026398 -

Green7Alchemist said:
to know what is on the other side is virtually impossible we can take experiences like the ones you mentioned and also draw from science and psychology in order to make educated guesses but it would only be that at best.

for example, this life is an illusion, due to its atomic properties and how they are assembled and perceived behind the walls of our brain, that in turns renders death itself an illusion within an illusion.

so in that way we know for certain these few things, everything we see before us in the micro-verse does not appear in the same format code as it does in the macro-verse and we know this to be due to the nature of atoms and how they bond but to continue down this illusion we can only perceive the object once light has reached our eye and then relates the message to the brain, the brain generates electricity and energy cannot be created nor destroyed only transferred from one space to another, now this seems like an elaborate lie i tell myself to make me feel as if i will continue to exist in a different form, but this is what we know energy cannot be created not destroyed.

so it would seem to me that there both life and death are illusions.


dude.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026418 -

those are my honest thoughts man, its all an illusion :lol:

i swear ill wake up from this reality as an alien that dozed off while hitting some DMT.


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25026431 -

redgreenvines said:
Really
not everyone dies in agony,
many die in their sleep,


i was just thinking about this. i think it'd be worse to die in your sleep. just saying. without the full experience of death, you can't say to have lived it fully. plus, isn't it more scary to die 'not knowing', rather than 'knowing' as you die?

but yes, not in "agony", true, good point. but my above statement stands as an argument for such a case being more anxiety-driving and scary to die in ones sleep, than to not. then again, it might be more preferable and less anxiety-filled to go in a nicer way than opposed to something more "grisly" like torture, or something.

so what of that, man? i mean, i think i have a point here. :super: but nice response.


Quote:
some fade away.
many do die with pain but is it more than 25%?
some die with shock
or instantly after severe trauma (gunshot) which can be quick and relatively painless compared to a bee sting, or falling from a ladder.

the most unpleasant part of many deaths is the lack of dignity, which is a pain in the ego. They should do something about those hospital patient gowns.


well, indefinite silence and nothingness seems to be a scary premise, perhaps with hope in something more, you can combat anxiety. but i think people would be lying to themselves to say that this action, of DA, (which is connected to it all, ie, religions, spiritual beliefs, ect -- yes, this is another argument) doesn't play a part in their motivations or otherwise, inertia.

Quote:
I have low acceptance that death anxiety is more than general insecurity and taking things personally.


i think that's just more DA talking. but let's just stipulate something to make this premise more clear, instead of short and opaque...i think that this wording "low acceptance" is rather well-said, but it's more of a language game you're employing sort of like apotropaic mental mine-laying, more than an exact consecution of the psychological fact of DA as false. :wink: the fact of your making stoic/buddhistic grammar choices in order to cultivate a feeling (and not an exactitude of logic or rationale to make clear ie ratiocination or awareness) that you can then use to "trick" yourself, essentially.

the term "insecurity" in your judgements betrays you. :yesnod: you seem to take the very notion espoused about DA as personally as i am....

Green7Alchemist said:
those are my honest thoughts man, its all an illusion :lol:

i swear ill wake up from this reality as an alien that dozed off while hitting some DMT.


no, i think remember you saying some crazy sense before too, no man, it's all good. i think you understand well, in my stupid idiotic opinion.

can i insult myself? i wonder....

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25026459 -

you probably shouldnt tell yourself lies to sooth the prognosis of your intelligence :wink:


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #25026482 -



but it makes things so much easier when i tell myself things i like to think are easier are real.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026521 -

Quote:
akira_akuma said:...

Quote:
I have low acceptance that death anxiety is more than general insecurity and taking things personally.


i think that's just more DA talking. but let's just stipulate something to make this premise more clear, instead of short and opaque...i think that this wording "low acceptance" is rather well-said, but it's more of a language game you're employing sort of like apotropaic mental mine-laying, more than an exact consecution of the psychological fact of DA as false. :wink: the fact of your making stoic/buddhistic grammar choices in order to cultivate a feeling (and not an exactitude of logic or rationale to make clear ie ratiocination or awareness) that you can then use to "trick" yourself, essentially.

the term "insecurity" in your judgements betrays you. :yesnod: you seem to take the very notion espoused about DA as personally as i am....




Try not to accuse me of this, you do not know me well enough.

I bet buddhist people could have plenty of death anxiety, but, while I have anxiety it is not about death and it does not plague me because my view of it is that it falls in the class of restlessness and confusion, which don't hang around me very long.
but I must ask you how you can actually believe your own words:
"the fact of your making stoic/buddhistic grammar choices in order to cultivate a feeling (and not an exactitude of logic or rationale to make clear ie ratiocination or awareness) that you can then use to "trick" yourself, essentially."
buddhist grammar (?)
trick oneself with ratiocination or awareness, stop right there
yes YOU CAN trick yourself with ratiocination
but not with bare awareness, with bare awareness, there is only what is.
AND
all of this thread is about ratiocination, so you are mostl likely tricking yourself (and trying to convince others you are right) aside from getting it wrong about me.

That other part about fear of not being aware of having died is less of an issue than you imagine when it comes to pass: It's not like having dirty toilet paper sticking out of the back of your pants.
But agonizing about either of those possible embarrassments is 100% social anxiety not death anxiety.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25026534 -

being not aware of death, that is not social anxiety now, come come.

you say awareness is not ratiocination? huh. interesting. i think to come to awareness you need ratiocination, do you not?

are you sure you're not just tricking yourself along with me?

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026561 -

well, isn't one of the main facets of the psychedelic experience all about experiencing death?

if you've overcome this anxiety while under the influence, couldn't this experience be transferred over?  you remember what it was like to die on your trip, and you think, oh, yes, i remember this.

i held my grandfathers hand as he passed away from his body, and he seemed pretty relaxed, he was making a whole bunch of racist jokes, but may be this was the lack of blood flow to his brain.  i didn't sense any fear from him.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #25026620 -

well, ... i mean, he didn't pass away without any sort of pharmaceuticals? this would make things easier for those who are passing to pass.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25026743 -

dude, you can be aware of ratiocination,
but you cannot be ratiocinatic of ratiocination (mental content linking to mental content)
when you are aware of ratiocination, it often fades to be replaced by the next mental object without associative engagement from the mental object you have become aware of as ratiocinatic.


ratiocination is perception and further associative thought where links between mental objects are deliberately followed, during which time most of sensation is ignored or suppressed.

Bare awareness, however, is attentive to sensation and a conscious effort not to follow associative links, merely to acknowledge them as they occur. There is effort involved and associative support for that effort, but the activity is not ratiocination. During bare awareness, fragmentary and momentary sensations and facets of experience of breath and ideas occur from the body/mind without creating or supporting chains of thought.

Maybe we can agree on that first, or not as the case may be - either way you love your theory, and I don't buy it.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25026954 -

something that is occulted by "mental objects", isn't that something you need to GAIN awareness of before you can intuit it? do you not need to 'think' before you can come to such a realization? do you not need to 'question'?

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25027122 -

you can say that mental content includes whatever mental objects arise  as electrical activity patterns in the cerebral cortex

thoughts are mental objects - arising out of memory and feeding back into it.
while sensations are also mental objects - both  feeding into and arising out of memory.

(remembered sensations (and thoughts) are equal to new ones - same cerebral cortical cells are activated)

bare attention includes:
80% mental objects that arise directly from sensation which have not yet been perceived or interpreted, and 20% that arise directly from memory as fragmentary perception uninterpreted the beginning edges of perception only.

when a meditator finds that remembered content is overtaking sense of the breath or body position (distractions), they observe the hindrance and bare awareness balance resumes.

ratiocination (musing, thinking etc.) is the process of associative perception and interpretation.
during ratiocination 80% of mental objects are  associative perceptions -  linkages from memory - and only 20% is from the raw sensory feed.

a person usually cultivates anxiety by favoring ratiocination over bare attention, even though they think much more clearly when they practice bare attention: more time is afforded to obtaining a full perception before the associative process runs away with itself.

Anxiety is from disconnecting with the live feed from the senses. Fear of death is just one kind of obsession that can be the topic that anxiety struggles with. Maybe it is your biggest one, but it is not everyone's biggest topic and it certainly is not why we all tend to lose touch and become anxious.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25027161 -

Quote:
thoughts are mental objects - arising out of memory and feeding back into it.
while sensations are also mental objects - both  feeding into and arising out of memory.

(remembered sensations (and thoughts) are equal to new ones - same cerebral cortical cells are activated)


is remembering and invention the same thing?

Quote:
bare attention includes:
80% mental objects that arise directly from sensation which have not yet been perceived or interpreted, and 20% that arise directly from memory as fragmentary perception uninterpreted the beginning edges of perception only.

when a meditator finds that remembered content is overtaking sense of the breath or body position (distractions), they observe the hindrance and bare awareness balance resumes.

ratiocination (musing, thinking etc.) is the process of associative perception and interpretation.
during ratiocination 80% of mental objects are  associative perceptions -  linkages from memory - and only 20% is from the raw sensory feed.


where did you get these numbers?

Quote:
a person usually cultivates anxiety by favoring ratiocination over bare attention, even though they think much more clearly when they practice bare attention: more time is afforded to obtaining a full perception before the associative process runs away with itself.



does this obliterate the notion of DA? i think not.
does this notion of favoring "non-ratiocination" amount to anything but "sit, try not to squirm, and eventually die with non-action"? cause then i'd argue that life is truly meaningless and we should not procreate. :shrug:

Quote:
Anxiety is from disconnecting with the live feed from the senses.


i disagree that anxiety is disconnecting from the senses. i think it's literally the senses that people experiences no matter the depth of their awareness. is awareness not a christing sense? :whistling:

Quote:
Fear of death is just one kind of obsession that can be the topic that anxiety struggles with. Maybe it is your biggest one, but it is not everyone's biggest topic and it certainly is not why we all tend to lose touch and become anxious.


can you refute any of the OP? i mean, literally, refute it or assess contradiction. let's get to the crux of the issue.

but i must say, you say you think "it's" my biggest fear, and you're putting that on me...that's fine, but i think you're doing that "taking things personally" thing, because when i say it's a component of our thought-process (unconsciously), you seem to make it all about me. i'm not saying that it's about me...do try and actually refute the premise or conclusion, or find some kind of contradiction. otherwise, how can i know you aren't just saying things to make yourself "feel" like you're above the want to avoid DA, and are above the notion of said anxiety, because you can "be aware without thinking of mental objects". it's a cop out, because what if that wont to avoid "mental objects" is just another form of escapism? (not that i'd have a problem with that....)

but again, this isn't just about me, no matter how much you'd like to say it is...i know, it's easier that way...project...but i still think i have a point, and i don't think it's been refuted, unless, that is, i missed something- maybe you might want to reiterate- or you can just refute the OP. :shrug: that'd be swell.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027349 -

We've been through this all with Icelander already. No matter how we explain it that you don't have to shit and piss yourself all day long in fear of death you will just say "Nuh uh, you're lying to yourself becasue of DA".


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25027377 -

i don't think you're comprehending what i'm putting down. to shit and piss yourself is besides the point of death anxiety, as it is fundamentally understood...literally, fundamentally. :shrug: you shit and piss yourself if YOU DON'T do elsewise...that's the premise...can you guys establish that for yourselves already? so we can have an honest discussion about it?

"anxiety" isn't even the right word for it, but that's the colloquialism.

do you need to have the concept explained further (i thought people were well-read on the subject...i'm having trouble believing that) it's hardwired into you. there, that's the argument. i don't think you'll want to delve into this perspective, because it'd potentially betray your sensibilities, but, this isn't about "quivering in fear".

this is about responses and action. one gets hurt, one aims to avoid that hurt again. one feels pleasure, one aims to achieve more pleasure. one thinks morals are from a God, one aims to serve that God, to please. one thinks ethics are a modal of conscious effort on the will of those who want to see morality prevail in the world of men- i say it's all an reaction to the foremost, "i don't want to simply die, i want to live, and i am alive".

so i don't think you're fully comprehending the concept here, no offense.

but anxiety, in this instance, is not "timidity" or "trembling" or hammering at all...this anxiety is mental-based.

now, come with a retort, now that you can understand more.

Quote:
"Nuh uh, you're lying to yourself becasue of DA".


and that isn't the crux of the argument...that's just a matter of logicality. either you can be afraid, or you can't...you can...so hence, the potentiality is there. but it isn't the crux of the argument. (though if you'd like to refute the underlined, be my guest.

and by the by, can you guys resist acting like this forum isn't designed to challenge you?

because you're all kinda acting "high and mighty" here, which is besides the point of posting here. i mean, i know i should take the brunt of the debate on, here, as it's my thread, but c'mon...try less hard at "being right" without evidence, and challenge the position i carry with understanding and courage to disprove me.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/27/18 09:01 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027765 -

Yes, we know the premise, we just disagree. But DA is its own religion around these parts so I guess we'll just have to go through it all again.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25027778 -

you addressed literally nothing.

there is no point to anything. people will not reason in any logical way anything. only war is manifest, i suppose, because people will tell others, and themselves, "i want to know reality", and they will vehemently deny, and abhor, and ignore, reality, and anything that pushes them in towards that direction.

congrats. you addressed nothing i said. you win.

so what opposes the "premise"

tell me. what is the opposition. be clear, or just...refuse to make sense.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027783 -

or just adhere to a non-specific, non-vocalized, non-logical notion that is nothing and have that "nothing" be your cornerstone.

but you'll just assume to just utter some more sweet nothings, and address nothing, and claim that reality is as such, either nothing, or some old thing that has been proven to be wrong.

WOW

Edited by akira_akuma (02/28/18 01:39 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027788 -

hey, Christianity is real
hey Buddhism is real
hey God is real
hey Sikhism is real
hey Islam is real
hey Hinduism is real
hey ect ect ect


no, none of it is real. it's all fake and no one will ever be able to prove otherwise, but they will jerk off the notion forever, to pretend that they do "prove"- but never with logic, results, or actuality...only notions.

no need to question, just assume things, viktor.

Edited by akira_akuma (02/28/18 01:40 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027813 -

and any outside postulate intelligence can clearly see i am right and the normies here are, well...sorry to say....

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027916 -

akira_akuma said:
LOL.

can we haz another death anxiety thread?

i mean, we don't need one. but we could have one- just like we could have a lot of things.

it's inescapable. no one can even broach this subject without the ignition sputtering into a new direction to engulf. it's impossible. there is no solving any of the problems in the human condition- we can organize things in differing ways, but there will always be the same problems- because we humans are incredibly simplistic, to the point of absurdity; which is why we can never truly change. we can feel change, assess it in our environment and in ourselves, we can promote change, will ourselves to change (like someone can will themselves to do any number of terrible or mundane things), but we can never change this-- we are unable to deal with death's encroachment, and everyone deals with it in determined ways that are bound for tragedy, for certain individuals whom will have to assert themselves within the echos of stressors they cannot control, or affirmatively destroy- with pleasure seeking exercises, spiritual discipline, et al.

due to the uncontrollable nature of life, from resources, to psychopathology, to the innate need for certainty, we will never conform to another notion outside of the box where undefinable anxiety resides, in where you know "I exist in this" is nothing more than an illusion of thought and a distraction to the ultimate claim that utters itself in indefinite silence, "I am still alive".

we have one method for normal people: survive. the prerogative is simple.


To the contrary, i'd say that the human condition is constantly changing. Sure, it's a ridiculously slow process from our perspective but if our species survives long enough, we will inevitably become something we wouldn't classify as human at all, and behavioral patterns are no exception. We may even reach some point where, for one reason or another, death isn't even a consideration

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027950 -

akira_akuma said:
LOL.

can we haz another death anxiety thread?

i mean, we don't need one. but we could have one- just like we could have a lot of things.

it's inescapable. no one can even broach this subject without the ignition sputtering into a new direction to engulf. it's impossible. there is no solving any of the problems in the human condition- we can organize things in differing ways, but there will always be the same problems- because we humans are incredibly simplistic, to the point of absurdity; which is why we can never truly change. we can feel change, assess it in our environment and in ourselves, we can promote change, will ourselves to change (like someone can will themselves to do any number of terrible or mundane things), but we can never change this-- we are unable to deal with death's encroachment, and everyone deals with it in determined ways that are bound for tragedy, for certain individuals whom will have to assert themselves within the echos of stressors they cannot control, or affirmatively destroy- with pleasure seeking exercises, spiritual discipline, et al.

due to the uncontrollable nature of life, from resources, to psychopathology, to the innate need for certainty, we will never conform to another notion outside of the box where undefinable anxiety resides, in where you know "I exist in this" is nothing more than an illusion of thought and a distraction to the ultimate claim that utters itself in indefinite silence, "I am still alive".

we have one method for normal people: survive. the prerogative is simple.


Does putting it in a neat little box make you less anxious?

Is being aware of the absurdity make it any more uniform?

Basically.....so.:shrug:


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25027972 -

I hope this helps,

Quote:
is remembering and invention the same thing?


remembering begins with perception:
--- perception is the recollection of the most similar scenes to the current one in the field of attention{1}. The engrams[2] from previous experience are activated and added to the field of attention.
--- the strongest match will resonate in the field of attention with other factors{3} already there, and that combination will trigger further engram reactivation. This associative process is commonly called thinking or ratiocination.
--- the layers of content in the field of attention are the fodder of invention:
+++ when a pattern of interest arises in the field of attention it can be formulated and later remembered. It may be a radically new pattern (invented object) or it may be a new combination or arrangement of previous mental objects (which could still be significant or radical), but it is ratiocination that was not previously experienced but in future it can be used as part of some other perception sequence.

{1} 'the field of attention' is what the person's mind is interested in, aka what is focused upon.
{2} 'engram' is a term for memory trace, the pattern of brain cells that are activated for any specific memory object(s)
{3} 'factors' is used here to include such mental objects as the sensory feeds, and recent mental contents that have not yet completely faded.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25027989 -

I'd say that an invention is a novel configuration of memories

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Apples in Mono] * 1
    #25028017 -

you would live in an ocean of invention if that were true.
And it is partly true,
but I think to invent, one must also experience some eureka moment, and this means not only a unique config of memories, but also great interest, or at least the effort of hunting of the quarry.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25028106 -

akira_akuma said:
well, ... i mean, he didn't pass away without any sort of pharmaceuticals? this would make things easier for those who are passing to pass.


the only pharmaceutical he was on was prednisone.

akira, are you saying the anxiety stems from a mental place, a spiritual place,  a physical place, or all three?

and why wouldn't one, with practice, be able to overcome all three?  what if someone literally prepared their entire life for just this one moment?

do you think Jesus had DA?

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25028143 -

redgreenvines said:
you would live in an ocean of invention if that were true.
And it is partly true,
but I think to invent, one must also experience some eureka moment, and this means not only a unique config of memories, but also great interest, or at least the effort of hunting of the quarry.


Not at all. I said that an invention is a configuration of memories, not that a configuration of memories is necessarily an invention by any meaningful standard- far from it. And whether or not an act of invention necessarily requires any significant eureka moment and/or any remarkable interest(which i'd call debatable), i'd say that each of those states of mind is in itself a configuration of memories

Edited by Apples in Mono (02/28/18 07:48 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #25028163 -

just trying to interpret what you write here is an act of invention:
it requires some interest,
my memory is engaged phrase by phrase,
I have a kind of eureka experience when I think I understand your text and responding kicks in...
during responding several inventive sequences unfold.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25028193 -

We would only expect to find ourselves in an ocean of invention if every configuration of memories were an invention. I claimed only the opposite. In other words, invention is a subset of the memory-configuration superset.

I also argued that an invention doesn't necessarily require a eureka moment, or a particularly great conscious interest of any sort, and that even if it did require one or both of those, that i'd classify both of those under the memory-configuration superset as well, meaning that we're ultimately left with nothing more than a configuration of memories either way.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25028341 -

To generalize that all people are frightful before death is quite silly. 

I imagine if someone were to live wholesomely in body, speech, and mind, they would not have a terror of death, but a patient acceptance of what’s to come.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #25028367 -

thealienthatategod said:
akira_akuma said:
well, ... i mean, he didn't pass away without any sort of pharmaceuticals? this would make things easier for those who are passing to pass.


the only pharmaceutical he was on was prednisone.

akira, are you saying the anxiety stems from a mental place, a spiritual place,  a physical place, or all three?

and why wouldn't one, with practice, be able to overcome all three?  what if someone literally prepared their entire life for just this one moment?

do you think Jesus had DA?


ahhh, but here is the crux of the issue most people are missing...you know, the response is what is "rapped" about here. not the anxiety itself. of course you can set aside the anxiety if you can replace that anxiety with something else. :smile:

DA is about the causality of the state, ie, the resultant effects of the state (of DA), not the inward foundation, which is just the anxiety in and of itself.

the whole notion here is about how DA effects people's motivations and actions, and whether or not there is an underlying anxiety (particularly DA) that drives your motivations- or whether or not, on the flip side, that people do not have this anxiety and if faced with a future of zero attainment of external or internal faculties, will not feel it, but instead, either feel something more, or something less...in other words, either no DA and it's just some other feeling, or it's no-feeling, and there is just nothing there.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25028397 -

ok if it is the cause, then where is it?
is there an organ or tissue?
is there a cell?
is there particle?
is there a specific pattern or meme other than this thread and the popularity of Becker?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: pineninja]
    #25028406 -

pineninja said:
Does putting it in a neat little box make you less anxious?

Is being aware of the absurdity make it any more uniform?

Basically.....so.:shrug:


other modalities of thought (and other ascertainment from other topics) can be had with the knowledge of such things.

another big one for me would "kids". people and their kids...that's a real funny one. we can't really talk about this concept, though, without going into DA a little bit first.

like, why do we have kids...well, surface level answer would be "procreation", but we often have kids by mistake-- which is not a new phenomenon- consider the fact that religions had to be made in order to even keep tribes growing, because without "the rules" the tribe would have only subsisted instead of expand, and this would be due to the common nature of tribes [see: Oceanic or African tribes, et al] which are fundamentally more typically human than the big religions, and rely less on an "outside" intelligences for their determining narratives for their memorization and entertainment. we also often require many motivating factors before effectively "planning" to have kids, but that's besides the point here. kids are usually an attainment that serve no purpose beyond procreation [and the species still has parenting problems pretty regularly, if not indefinitely, considering what we know now of child psychology, and what we can see is the "necessities" for the family, and the requirements for attaining those necessities, being far too great a burden for most people- and those for whom it isn't, good, but there are still people, yet, who neglect and burden their kids with abject misery- eg, parenting is still not something most people are generally good at] -- now beyond procreation and error, what other reasons are their for having kids?

that's where the fun truly begins.

Quote:
I hope this helps


well, it kinda sorta didn't. so remembering and invention are the same thing, is what you're saying?

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25028409 -

redgreenvines said:
ok if it is the cause, then where is it?
is there an organ or tissue?
is there a cell?
is there particle?
is there a specific pattern or meme other than this thread and the popularity of Becker?


it's certainly got nothing to do with Becker...all he did, in my opinion, is invent the term. i haven't even read Denial Of Death yet, may never- i already understand the concept, fundamentally (despite what a certain someone [who isn't Icey] might pop in here to oppose, with no real argument- we'll see) -- so Becker has nothing to do with the OP or subsequent posts, nor the latest, from myself. these are my own ideas. DA is just the label i'm using to express the idea, seeing as it's fitting...it's also readily confusing people into thinking i'm just repeating what has already been said, but that's just...more typical mistakes you'll see around here.

still waiting for viktor to use that big brain of his to actually make a refutation.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25028751 -

lol, yes, not again :lol:
DA is only the anxiety to appreciate life :heart:

Kind of, when appreciating life, you have to appreciate death as well.
But silly and early death is unnecessary and avoidable. And in fact, everything is about life, not death, because death is just another of those silly words pointing towards nonexistence.
It's just natural to avoid it, but not in a hysterical way..
That's it all about.

But I read the whole thread later...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (02/28/18 01:30 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25028791 -

yeah, but we can still talk about it though.

i think it's telling. because people are mostly doing things to keep "busy" (hence, "business") because there is nothing else to do...but then again, i'm not a nihilist, so i believe there is more than that to do- but i don't think i see this being very prevalent in the human condition, even by those whom claim to be spiritual...it's weird, in that way, this "death anxiety".

and then it gets really weird when you start to think about morals and "the problem of evil".

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25029187 -

redgreenvines said:
I hope this helps,

Quote:
is remembering and invention the same thing?


remembering begins with perception:
--- perception is the recollection of the most similar scenes to the current one in the field of attention{1}. The engrams[2] from previous experience are activated and added to the field of attention.
--- the strongest match will resonate in the field of attention with other factors{3} already there, and that combination will trigger further engram reactivation. This associative process is commonly called thinking or ratiocination.
--- the layers of content in the field of attention are the fodder of invention:
+++ when a pattern of interest arises in the field of attention it can be formulated and later remembered. It may be a radically new pattern (invented object) or it may be a new combination or arrangement of previous mental objects (which could still be significant or radical), but it is ratiocination that was not previously experienced but in future it can be used as part of some other perception sequence.

{1} 'the field of attention' is what the person's mind is interested in, aka what is focused upon.
{2} 'engram' is a term for memory trace, the pattern of brain cells that are activated for any specific memory object(s)
{3} 'factors' is used here to include such mental objects as the sensory feeds, and recent mental contents that have not yet completely faded.


that helped a lot

I am smiling inside now

just think everything read that post (I meant if everyone read that post)


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

Edited by Ferdinando (02/28/18 02:24 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25029209 -

ratiocination is an important faculty.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25029532 -

So is defecation

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25029543 -

yes it is, one of the most interesting things there is.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: cez]
    #25029674 -

cez said:
To generalize that all people are frightful before death is quite silly. 

I imagine if someone were to live wholesomely in body, speech, and mind, they would not have a terror of death, but a patient acceptance of what’s to come.


Ah yes but you're just lying to yourself because of DA you see.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25029766 -

what do children say to unsettle each other?
"na na nana nah".
Ok let it be unsettled with you until the very end if you want it that way.
you are free to have peace or not as you wish.
"da da dada dah"


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25029812 -

viktor said:
cez said:
To generalize that all people are frightful before death is quite silly. 

I imagine if someone were to live wholesomely in body, speech, and mind, they would not have a terror of death, but a patient acceptance of what’s to come.


Ah yes but you're just lying to yourself because of DA you see.


yeah, if you're still on the notion of "terror" or "fright" you're literally not comprehending the premise of DA.

it's not about fright or terror. it's about motivations. get that right, or stay completely bereft of apprehension. your choice. but really, you are saying nothing in this quote.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25030667 -

redgreenvines said:
I bet buddhist people could have plenty of death anxiety, but, while I have anxiety it is not about death and it does not plague me because my view of it is that it falls in the class of restlessness and confusion, which don't hang around me very long.


Well, I think it is generally very difficult to see ourselves objectively. If I have a red spot on my forehead, I would need a mirror to become aware of that. But unfortunately, we cannot necessarily see our internal world even with a mirror.

Anyhow. I would argue that people aren't necessarily behaving in a way which is indicative of death anxiety. At least not rational death anxiety. If humans have a lot of death anxiety, I would expect people to be more interested in discovering new medicines and investigating how to live longer (http://www.archania.org/research/). Some humans are interested in these things, but it seems to be a very small proportion of humanity. Most humans seem to be more motivated to find a partner, have kids, and become rich. Some of the highly group-oriented people, can also be motivated to do missionary activities, either for a religion, a political party or an environmental organization.

viktor said:
This. Death means that consciousness returns to God and is liberated from all suffering. What's to fear? One fears only insofar as one clings to the world.


Maybe, if people weren't so religious, they would have more death anxiety, and then they would work harder to invent new medicines to live longer.

Edited by Zanthius (03/01/18 12:53 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25030743 -

akira_akuma said:
it's about motivations.


Which ones?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25030785 -

The world is a pure abstract phenomenon in which anything can be reasoned in anyway

This is what I’m thinking now.

What is “truth” but an abstraction of an assumption in itself?

Are we dying or growing?

Is it a fact that we “die” when it is a part of “life”?

Can one exist without the other?

Do these questions matter?

Do perceptions/opinions matter?

“What now?” - this is what I’d like to know.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25030805 -

Even if that were true, which I don't think it is, would it really be a bad thing? So what if people are driven on by fear of death? It's probably beneficial to be really driven throughout your life even if it is from fear.

Overall, I think fear of death is probably a good and healthy thing. Steve Jobs once said that death was one of the things that made him work really hard towards the end of his life.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #25030809 -

Maybe the concept of "death" is our only motivation, an obscure and unknowable blessing.

Maybe God is Death. Perhaps if we knew what death was, we wouldn't continue living. But because it associated with something negative, we do anything to protect its assumed "opposite" - "LIFE".

Do we even truly grieve our lost ones? And in doing so, what do we accomplish?

It seems like something unavoidable...But why do we fear our absence from each other so much?

Edited by remake (03/01/18 03:12 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25030825 -

Just assert a truth and see if you like the consequences of doing so.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25030877 -

viktor said:
Just assert a truth and see if you akira likes the consequences of you doing so.


Fixed.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: nooneman]
    #25031812 -

nooneman said:
Even if that were true, which I don't think it is, would it really be a bad thing? So what if people are driven on by fear of death? It's probably beneficial to be really driven throughout your life even if it is from fear.

Overall, I think fear of death is probably a good and healthy thing. Steve Jobs once said that death was one of the things that made him work really hard towards the end of his life.


good post.

Jokeshopbeard said:
viktor said:
Just assert a truth and see if you akira likes the consequences of you doing so.


Fixed.


crud post.

Zanthius said:
viktor said:
This. Death means that consciousness returns to God and is liberated from all suffering. What's to fear? One fears only insofar as one clings to the world.


Maybe, if people weren't so religious, they would have more death anxiety, and then they would work harder to invent new medicines to live longer.


indeed.

Jokeshopbeard said:
akira_akuma said:
it's about motivations.


Which ones?


all but hunger and procreation. those seem to be intrinsically co-evolved with the anxiety associated with knowing you're gonna die.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25031852 -

Surely hunger and procreation would be the motivations MOST linked to DA?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25031860 -

akira_akuma said:
all but hunger and procreation. those seem to be intrinsically co-evolved with the anxiety associated with knowing you're gonna die.


I would also say group conformity, since we are social animals. And people often want to be perceived as better than other people, or have a high status. Maybe it increases procreation, especially for males.

So group conformity + desire for procreation -> desire for higher status in your group.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25031870 -

There really is no telling quite how our experiences and behavior would differ with a complete lack of concept or consideration of death

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Apples in Mono] * 1
    #25031872 -

Apples in Mono said:
There really is no telling quite how our experiences and behavior would differ with a complete lack of concept or consideration of death


I disagree. I think people would be much less interested in good health and in inventing medicines if we didn't have a concept of death.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if atheism correlates with an interest in good health, since religious people might have less death anxiety.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius] * 1
    #25031918 -

Well, sure, there are a few obvious particulars like that, but that doesn't seem to get us anywhere near a meaningful picture of how we should expect it would ultimately affect our general experience.

And in my experience, even those who are seemingly convinced of a positive, eternal afterlife, experience such fear or anxiety. They may even sometimes convince themselves that they don't, but it seems to me that they are always left with a cognitive dissonance, which causes stress in itself

Edited by Apples in Mono (03/01/18 02:45 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #25031928 -

Apples in Mono said:
Well, sure, there are a few obvious particulars like that, but that doesn't seem to get us anywhere near a meaningful picture of how we should expect it would ultimately affect our general experience


I live in a very atheistic country, and many people here are extremely obsessed with how healthy they are. I wouldn't say it is a trivial motivation factor. At least not here.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25031933 -

We are not afraid of death, we are afraid of humiliation, pain and the unknown.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25031942 -

FranniePilgrim said:
the unknown.


Oh yes.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25031953 -

FranniePilgrim said:
We are not afraid of death, we are afraid of humiliation, pain and the unknown.


Since humans are able to form a concept of death (unlike most other animals), I find it extremely unlikely that we aren't somewhat afraid of death. But more importantly, people don't necessarily know themselves. As I said, you can see your outside with a mirror, but you cannot see your own inside. Therefore, it is extremely difficult to know objectively what goes on inside ourselves.

Edited by Zanthius (03/01/18 03:03 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #25031969 -

Death is just a pointer pointing away from life towards non-existence. It makes no sense to focus on how to influence non-existence. It makes sense to focus on the other end of that pointer... life. And that's what it's all about.
It's just a rhetoric trickery.

It's simply the same as to say 'I do everything to stay alive'. And that's profane. Only the focus on the opposite, which is in fact just a pointer, makes this rhetoric stuff interesting.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25031971 -

Zanthius said:
Apples in Mono said:
Well, sure, there are a few obvious particulars like that, but that doesn't seem to get us anywhere near a meaningful picture of how we should expect it would ultimately affect our general experience


I live in a very atheistic country, and many people here are extremely obsessed with how healthy they are. I wouldn't say it is a trivial motivation factor. At least not here.


Yeah, i wouldn't call it trivial at all; just the opposite. I imagine we would be smart to figure that, in this hypothetical, the lack of those motivations would translate to gigantic behavioral and experiential differences

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25032123 -

I wouldn't say I'm afraid of "death" as a concept, but I do fear pain, and what comes/doesn't come after.

Animals seem pretty scared of death to me sometimes.

When we stop thinking about death, we start living.

Anxieties usually include the past and future, but the now is always still.

Nothing really happens, except the stories we make up according to which we live, and tie ourselves to.

We try to be animals, but we don't get it right because of very human "insecurities" much like on a T.V screen.

We can argue about the motivations, but I think it has a lot to do with dreams, rather than basic instinct.

I don't regard absolutes as something to go by. The only thing separating us from death is physical injury. How we obtain this fatal "injury" is reliant on made-up concepts.

It is irrational to fear death, and most of us, I believe, are not afraid of death. But of life.

Life is the burden, not death. People make living hard on purpose because of fear, but this is not a fear of death, death is not some "thing".

We want "purpose". A very human thing. We are not the animals around us. But this "purpose" is wrongfully by our own conception and "imagination" made to be "animalistic".

It is an unobtainable goal, and we all return "home" to being average humans. There is no reason to live healthy. Life isn't made fulfilling by avoiding death, but embracing life by dying pleasurably and in love.

I'm a bit high right now and don't know what I'm saying. :peace:

Edited by remake (03/01/18 03:14 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25032173 -

FranniePilgrim said:
I wouldn't say I'm afraid of "death" as a concept, but I do fear pain, and what comes/doesn't come after.


You know, it wouldn't be difficult to set up an experiment to test your hypothesis. In Netherlands, they allow very sick or very old people to take assisted suicide. They inject something which don't give them any pain. You could just measure their brain activity when they get the injection. If people aren't scared of death, we shouldn't expect any activity in the fear centers of the brain.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25032199 -

Yes but “death” is an abstract concept.

The fear for “it” doesn’t mean anything, because we don’t know what “death” is.

We can only know “life” and our experiences within it.

If we knew what “death” was, we wouldn’t be “dead” but concious of it and thus be “alive”.

So we fear “life” and not “death” or  “total abscence of life”.

But that wouldn’t be possible to concieve with something like “non-existence”.

We look at dead people and fear our - living - experience of their absence.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25032256 -

:thumbup:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25032382 -

we're afraid of the unknown...death falls into that well well well well

well well well well well well well well well well well well wellll known category. :smile:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Surely hunger and procreation would be the motivations MOST linked to DA?


i'd say they are hardwired into the animal kingdom beyond the knowledge of death.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25033156 -

yes, but there is nothing to know about death, as it's only another word for contextual non-existence.
The connections from the imaginary world to an existence outside of death are too abstract and mostly unknown to really be afraid of, imho.
And they always lead back to the life and anxiety about it.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25033501 -

BlueCoyote said:
yes, but there is nothing to know about death, as it's only another word for contextual non-existence.


Maybe we don't know everything about death, but we know a lot about what happens to the biological body when we die.

This wikipedia article doesn't seem to be empty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25033750 -

I'm a little come on

death is non-existence


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25033752 -

maybe there's an afterlife
but that shouldn't be called death
that is respectless
that should be calle life.


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25033754 -

I think there was meaning of death with my error

seemed like it

things went a lot worse afterwards

that is like the meaning of death

or so I think


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25034007 -

lots of superstition and delusion about death, also restlessness and lack of confidence, naturally.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25034504 -

Zanthius said:
BlueCoyote said:
yes, but there is nothing to know about death, as it's only another word for contextual non-existence.


Maybe we don't know everything about death, but we know a lot about what happens to the biological body when we die.

This wikipedia article doesn't seem to be empty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death


Are you your body?


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Love_spirit]
    #25034509 -

Anxiety is the golden road to discovering our illusions.


Love_spirit said:
I can only understand having anxiety over something when there is a choice present.
Its totally nonsensical to worry about inevitability. There's not even a reason to think about it.


I agree, to argue with the reality of impermanence is childish. Or at the least, foolish.

For many, people occasionally contemplating death is a very wholesome activity.

To acknowledge our temporary existence is to recognize our "problems" are fantasies.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #25034562 -

we're always ceaselessly dying and being reborn, coming undone, pulling together again. you've all done shrooms, broo...you should know this.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #25034938 -

thealienthatategod said:
for me, the idea of living forever is more frightening than the idea of dying.  with an abundance of faith death comfortably passes through.

imagine living forever, now imagine living forever without love.  i can accept the Faith necessary to die, not so much eternal life.


Hohenheim  :yesnod:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Blipstir] * 3
    #25034948 -

thealienthatategod said:
. . . imagine living forever, now imagine living forever without love. 


How could you live forever without love....

when you always have the most important source of love.

Your own.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25035055 -

Zanthius said:
BlueCoyote said:
yes, but there is nothing to know about death, as it's only another word for contextual non-existence.


Maybe we don't know everything about death, but we know a lot about what happens to the biological body when we die.

This wikipedia article doesn't seem to be empty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death


What do me interest the worms when I am dead ? :smile:
That's why I added 'contextual', as I suppose we talk about the death of the 'self'.
The way we rot might come after death, but it can start even earlier... So, we shouldn't mix death with dying.
Anyways, this only shows the way towards non-existence which is called an illusion, as it is only about 'the opposite', existence itself and so this way of consideration is backward.
Of course people consider the ways of non-existence, but that doesn't lead to anywhere 'constructive'.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #25035923 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
thealienthatategod said:
. . . imagine living forever, now imagine living forever without love. 


How could you live forever without love....

when you always have the most important source of love.

Your own.


thank you for the re-minder

:lovetodeath: :forbiddenlove: :ilovedyou:
                            :flowers:                :happyheart:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #25035968 -

I think before talking about death we should start from the beginning. I mean if consider death as opposite state to life, then what life is?


--------------------
Technically alcohol is a solution

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: MiracleMike]
    #25036940 -

I dont think death anxiety happens till your in your middle age..

I for one have not had death anxiety until the age of 35(which is my current age)..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25037436 -

I think it depends on drugs. Some weed strains successfully produce death anxiety, when one heavily stoned. It is usually starts from hypochondria (or more precisely cénesthopathie -- french term, don't know English word for it). This is the way how my death anxiety starts when I was 30; this is the way how friend of mine face it in age 25. But I ended up with fully developed panic disorder, and he just occasionally has death anxieties when heavily stoned, or when mixing acid with pot.

But I also must say that prescribed xanax beat that shit out of me for a moth.


--------------------
Technically alcohol is a solution

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: MiracleMike]
    #25037596 -

what is clenching anyway?
I think it is a mis-identification with this, and that leads to mis-diagnosis and wrong treatment.
clenching should be addressed by relaxing and learning how you got that way at any age.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25037658 -

It's not a clenching. It's a panic attack. And you can't just simply sit back and relax with it unless you already familiar with this state and know how it works.
It starts from feeling that something is wrong inside you. You became anxious and start looking what is wrong and at this point your heart rate goes up until you can actually feel this crazy heart race. This usually scares shit out of you and your body release adrenaline which makes it even worse and much scary. Then your brain limbic system switching to the state "Hit or run". Pretty scary shit.


--------------------
Technically alcohol is a solution

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: MiracleMike]
    #25038169 -

I one time saved my self from a cliff hanger.. The stone I stepped on came out from under me, and all I could do is reach up with my left hand and grab a stone.. holding on literally with one hand over a peak of a waterfall

When I finally got up.. I thought I would be anxious or feeling brave and congratulatory.. but I literally felt nothing at all.. not even a heart racing..

So even though I was close to death.. I did not feel any death anxiety..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: MiracleMike]
    #25039563 -

MiracleMike said:
It's not a clenching. It's a panic attack.


I heard someone describe it as a feedback loop (to be anxious about anxiety).

To become anxious about our anxiety can send it thru the roof.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #25039578 -

Yep, looks pretty much like feedback to me.


--------------------
Technically alcohol is a solution

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25039634 -

The only sort of death anxiety I've had recently was when a gang banger told me to get on the floor or he'd put a bullet in my knee.

Sometimes when I drive I wonder what would happen if I swerved, but my heart doesn't beat any faster at the thought.

Quote:
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: sudly]
    #25043227 -

cool thread man.


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #25043234 -

I must have been a highly respected poster instead of Icelaner


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25043264 -

oh yea?


--------------------
Trip 7
THUG - ISLAM - BIBLE
streets disciple
CHRIST IS KING.

Sunshine said: "Gangsters are super heroes"

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Green7Alchemist]
    #25044480 -

maybe I don't know


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

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