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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Apples in Mono] * 1
    #25028017 -

you would live in an ocean of invention if that were true.
And it is partly true,
but I think to invent, one must also experience some eureka moment, and this means not only a unique config of memories, but also great interest, or at least the effort of hunting of the quarry.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25028106 -

akira_akuma said:
well, ... i mean, he didn't pass away without any sort of pharmaceuticals? this would make things easier for those who are passing to pass.


the only pharmaceutical he was on was prednisone.

akira, are you saying the anxiety stems from a mental place, a spiritual place,  a physical place, or all three?

and why wouldn't one, with practice, be able to overcome all three?  what if someone literally prepared their entire life for just this one moment?

do you think Jesus had DA?

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25028143 -

redgreenvines said:
you would live in an ocean of invention if that were true.
And it is partly true,
but I think to invent, one must also experience some eureka moment, and this means not only a unique config of memories, but also great interest, or at least the effort of hunting of the quarry.


Not at all. I said that an invention is a configuration of memories, not that a configuration of memories is necessarily an invention by any meaningful standard- far from it. And whether or not an act of invention necessarily requires any significant eureka moment and/or any remarkable interest(which i'd call debatable), i'd say that each of those states of mind is in itself a configuration of memories

Edited by Apples in Mono (02/28/18 07:48 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #25028163 -

just trying to interpret what you write here is an act of invention:
it requires some interest,
my memory is engaged phrase by phrase,
I have a kind of eureka experience when I think I understand your text and responding kicks in...
during responding several inventive sequences unfold.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25028193 -

We would only expect to find ourselves in an ocean of invention if every configuration of memories were an invention. I claimed only the opposite. In other words, invention is a subset of the memory-configuration superset.

I also argued that an invention doesn't necessarily require a eureka moment, or a particularly great conscious interest of any sort, and that even if it did require one or both of those, that i'd classify both of those under the memory-configuration superset as well, meaning that we're ultimately left with nothing more than a configuration of memories either way.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25028341 -

To generalize that all people are frightful before death is quite silly. 

I imagine if someone were to live wholesomely in body, speech, and mind, they would not have a terror of death, but a patient acceptance of what’s to come.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #25028367 -

thealienthatategod said:
akira_akuma said:
well, ... i mean, he didn't pass away without any sort of pharmaceuticals? this would make things easier for those who are passing to pass.


the only pharmaceutical he was on was prednisone.

akira, are you saying the anxiety stems from a mental place, a spiritual place,  a physical place, or all three?

and why wouldn't one, with practice, be able to overcome all three?  what if someone literally prepared their entire life for just this one moment?

do you think Jesus had DA?


ahhh, but here is the crux of the issue most people are missing...you know, the response is what is "rapped" about here. not the anxiety itself. of course you can set aside the anxiety if you can replace that anxiety with something else. :smile:

DA is about the causality of the state, ie, the resultant effects of the state (of DA), not the inward foundation, which is just the anxiety in and of itself.

the whole notion here is about how DA effects people's motivations and actions, and whether or not there is an underlying anxiety (particularly DA) that drives your motivations- or whether or not, on the flip side, that people do not have this anxiety and if faced with a future of zero attainment of external or internal faculties, will not feel it, but instead, either feel something more, or something less...in other words, either no DA and it's just some other feeling, or it's no-feeling, and there is just nothing there.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25028397 -

ok if it is the cause, then where is it?
is there an organ or tissue?
is there a cell?
is there particle?
is there a specific pattern or meme other than this thread and the popularity of Becker?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: pineninja]
    #25028406 -

pineninja said:
Does putting it in a neat little box make you less anxious?

Is being aware of the absurdity make it any more uniform?

Basically.....so.:shrug:


other modalities of thought (and other ascertainment from other topics) can be had with the knowledge of such things.

another big one for me would "kids". people and their kids...that's a real funny one. we can't really talk about this concept, though, without going into DA a little bit first.

like, why do we have kids...well, surface level answer would be "procreation", but we often have kids by mistake-- which is not a new phenomenon- consider the fact that religions had to be made in order to even keep tribes growing, because without "the rules" the tribe would have only subsisted instead of expand, and this would be due to the common nature of tribes [see: Oceanic or African tribes, et al] which are fundamentally more typically human than the big religions, and rely less on an "outside" intelligences for their determining narratives for their memorization and entertainment. we also often require many motivating factors before effectively "planning" to have kids, but that's besides the point here. kids are usually an attainment that serve no purpose beyond procreation [and the species still has parenting problems pretty regularly, if not indefinitely, considering what we know now of child psychology, and what we can see is the "necessities" for the family, and the requirements for attaining those necessities, being far too great a burden for most people- and those for whom it isn't, good, but there are still people, yet, who neglect and burden their kids with abject misery- eg, parenting is still not something most people are generally good at] -- now beyond procreation and error, what other reasons are their for having kids?

that's where the fun truly begins.

Quote:
I hope this helps


well, it kinda sorta didn't. so remembering and invention are the same thing, is what you're saying?

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25028409 -

redgreenvines said:
ok if it is the cause, then where is it?
is there an organ or tissue?
is there a cell?
is there particle?
is there a specific pattern or meme other than this thread and the popularity of Becker?


it's certainly got nothing to do with Becker...all he did, in my opinion, is invent the term. i haven't even read Denial Of Death yet, may never- i already understand the concept, fundamentally (despite what a certain someone [who isn't Icey] might pop in here to oppose, with no real argument- we'll see) -- so Becker has nothing to do with the OP or subsequent posts, nor the latest, from myself. these are my own ideas. DA is just the label i'm using to express the idea, seeing as it's fitting...it's also readily confusing people into thinking i'm just repeating what has already been said, but that's just...more typical mistakes you'll see around here.

still waiting for viktor to use that big brain of his to actually make a refutation.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25028751 -

lol, yes, not again :lol:
DA is only the anxiety to appreciate life :heart:

Kind of, when appreciating life, you have to appreciate death as well.
But silly and early death is unnecessary and avoidable. And in fact, everything is about life, not death, because death is just another of those silly words pointing towards nonexistence.
It's just natural to avoid it, but not in a hysterical way..
That's it all about.

But I read the whole thread later...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (02/28/18 01:30 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25028791 -

yeah, but we can still talk about it though.

i think it's telling. because people are mostly doing things to keep "busy" (hence, "business") because there is nothing else to do...but then again, i'm not a nihilist, so i believe there is more than that to do- but i don't think i see this being very prevalent in the human condition, even by those whom claim to be spiritual...it's weird, in that way, this "death anxiety".

and then it gets really weird when you start to think about morals and "the problem of evil".

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25029187 -

redgreenvines said:
I hope this helps,

Quote:
is remembering and invention the same thing?


remembering begins with perception:
--- perception is the recollection of the most similar scenes to the current one in the field of attention{1}. The engrams[2] from previous experience are activated and added to the field of attention.
--- the strongest match will resonate in the field of attention with other factors{3} already there, and that combination will trigger further engram reactivation. This associative process is commonly called thinking or ratiocination.
--- the layers of content in the field of attention are the fodder of invention:
+++ when a pattern of interest arises in the field of attention it can be formulated and later remembered. It may be a radically new pattern (invented object) or it may be a new combination or arrangement of previous mental objects (which could still be significant or radical), but it is ratiocination that was not previously experienced but in future it can be used as part of some other perception sequence.

{1} 'the field of attention' is what the person's mind is interested in, aka what is focused upon.
{2} 'engram' is a term for memory trace, the pattern of brain cells that are activated for any specific memory object(s)
{3} 'factors' is used here to include such mental objects as the sensory feeds, and recent mental contents that have not yet completely faded.


that helped a lot

I am smiling inside now

just think everything read that post (I meant if everyone read that post)


--------------------
Make love not war
And art
Save the planet
Fix the earth

Edited by Ferdinando (02/28/18 02:24 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Ferdinando]
    #25029209 -

ratiocination is an important faculty.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25029532 -

So is defecation

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25029543 -

yes it is, one of the most interesting things there is.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: cez]
    #25029674 -

cez said:
To generalize that all people are frightful before death is quite silly. 

I imagine if someone were to live wholesomely in body, speech, and mind, they would not have a terror of death, but a patient acceptance of what’s to come.


Ah yes but you're just lying to yourself because of DA you see.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25029766 -

what do children say to unsettle each other?
"na na nana nah".
Ok let it be unsettled with you until the very end if you want it that way.
you are free to have peace or not as you wish.
"da da dada dah"


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25029812 -

viktor said:
cez said:
To generalize that all people are frightful before death is quite silly. 

I imagine if someone were to live wholesomely in body, speech, and mind, they would not have a terror of death, but a patient acceptance of what’s to come.


Ah yes but you're just lying to yourself because of DA you see.


yeah, if you're still on the notion of "terror" or "fright" you're literally not comprehending the premise of DA.

it's not about fright or terror. it's about motivations. get that right, or stay completely bereft of apprehension. your choice. but really, you are saying nothing in this quote.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25030667 -

redgreenvines said:
I bet buddhist people could have plenty of death anxiety, but, while I have anxiety it is not about death and it does not plague me because my view of it is that it falls in the class of restlessness and confusion, which don't hang around me very long.


Well, I think it is generally very difficult to see ourselves objectively. If I have a red spot on my forehead, I would need a mirror to become aware of that. But unfortunately, we cannot necessarily see our internal world even with a mirror.

Anyhow. I would argue that people aren't necessarily behaving in a way which is indicative of death anxiety. At least not rational death anxiety. If humans have a lot of death anxiety, I would expect people to be more interested in discovering new medicines and investigating how to live longer (http://www.archania.org/research/). Some humans are interested in these things, but it seems to be a very small proportion of humanity. Most humans seem to be more motivated to find a partner, have kids, and become rich. Some of the highly group-oriented people, can also be motivated to do missionary activities, either for a religion, a political party or an environmental organization.

viktor said:
This. Death means that consciousness returns to God and is liberated from all suffering. What's to fear? One fears only insofar as one clings to the world.


Maybe, if people weren't so religious, they would have more death anxiety, and then they would work harder to invent new medicines to live longer.

Edited by Zanthius (03/01/18 12:53 AM)

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