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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: Frog]
    #2733678 - 05/26/04 05:55 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Out of curiosity, those of you who don't believe in God, what do you think happens to us after death? Anyone? Anyone?

I don't believe in a God that is separate from the universe. What I have "learned" is that when we die, we go to the other side of the veil, review our karmic lessons with guides if we are aware of them, and plan our next incarnation to suit our karmic lesson learning objectives. As you can see, I have a slight bias as my beliefs prevent me from being afraid of death, with the exception of excruciating pain that might accompany it.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help m [Re: Lux]
    #2733683 - 05/26/04 05:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I take everything literally.  I can't help it.  My brain is weird.  I don't even get jokes.  I take them literally.  I swear to God, if you tell me a joke, you will most likely have to explain it to me. 

Want to hear a joke?  This is one I absolutely didn't get and the person who told it to me was so disgusted that I didn't get it, that he walked away without explaining it to me.

Q:  What do you call a lawyer who takes viagra?

A:  A big dick.

:grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineFrog
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: ]
    #2733694 - 05/26/04 05:59 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Max Headroom said:
Out of curiosity, those of you who don't believe in God, what do you think happens to us after death? Anyone? Anyone?

I don't believe in a God that is separate from the universe. What I have "learned" is that when we die, we go to the other side of the veil, review our karmic lessons with guides if we are aware of them, and plan our next incarnation to suit our karmic lesson learning objectives. As you can see, I have a slight bias as my beliefs prevent me from being afraid of death, with the exception of excruciating pain that might accompany it.




I'm pretty much with you on that, Max, including the part about the excruciating pain. I don't mind death. It's the pain one might have to go through. That part would suck.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Offlinedeff
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: MOTH]
    #2733703 - 05/26/04 06:01 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

The past still exists, as does the future simultaneously. We are already dead, yet we haven't been born. Time does not erase existence. The past is not just a memory but rather as real as the now. Time is only an additional dimension that our minds cannot fully comprehend. Do not fear what already is, just as it would be foolish to fear the past. A moment never exists, as it has already become a memory. Sorry, I'm high and bored. :/

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Anonymous

Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: Viveka]
    #2733710 - 05/26/04 06:06 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Has there ever been something in your life that terrified you in anticipation of it, like a confrontation with someone, or fear of exposure, or fear of a coming event, and when it finally happens and it's over you think Gee, why was I so scared? It happened and life was a series of many moments leading up to just that one last moment that you were so afraid of. It's really just nonproductive to fear that way.

That's a great way of putting it. :thumbup: Life is all about overcoming your fears, and one way or the other all fears stem from the ego.

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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: Frog]
    #2733726 - 05/26/04 06:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

i dont think it matter what one believe in, whether christian or hindu or buddhist or athiest etc...

i believe ones motives and actions would seem to me to be the only thing that would matter, if anything really does.


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help m [Re: MOTH]
    #2734145 - 05/26/04 09:03 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

First, you must calmly decide to yourself that you would like to explore the root of these fears. Then, you must calmly explore these fears.

Sounds easy, sometimes hard. I have found the key to transcending any fear is by facing it with love and zero fear and the intention of resolution.

Part of the problem may lie in calling out to God or whatever source for answers when the answer may already lie within. One must rely on the self for answers for the many internal struggles, for the self in in connection with the source of oneness that is god or whatever you may have. We are all part of this oneness experiencing material lives as spiritual beings in this physical world. These temporary incarnations are but short but very valuable learning experiences which we take back to the spiritual plane upon our departure (from the physical shell)

Death is not to be feared. It is as essential to physical life as birth, for it is a part of the necessary cycle which all things in existence know. Hell only exists in imagination and destruction. The spiritual body is eternal. Learn as much as you can while you're alive, and enjoy the time you have. What else do you need to know?


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: MOTH]
    #2734180 - 05/26/04 09:12 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You can hold the tenet of Jesus, he rewrote the book of eternal life. changed the covenent of Abraham, creating Christianity. His law was a truth by stating love god first, neighbors 2nd, self last. The 10 commandments were a structural concept for society, enforced by...I'll be nice and say 'priests and others'.

I'm with jellric on this though. Death is a release to be welcomed, BUT...we're in preparation for the next incarnation. We are created to have faith in something though. Not many happy agnostics and that's the phase you seem to be going thru, M. You need a center to build your belief system upon. Most deep thinkers do. Look inside yourself, feel what feels to be the right thing to do and believe, trust your strength, your connection you have with all things; build upon that. Learn to meditate, practice till you can remain thoughtles for a minute or so. That's when you can hear your heart, the truth inside you trying to get you to listen.

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: wandrnshaman]
    #2734249 - 05/26/04 09:22 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Okay, the more I live, the more the idea of reincarnation becomes real to me. But I don't know anything about it, so can someone suggest a link that tells about "incarnations" and "reincarnation" and the process and stuff?

And I meditate, but I have lots of thoughts still. Is there any advice anyone can give me on how to calm my mind?

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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: MOTH]
    #2734324 - 05/26/04 09:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

yes, don't fight the thoughts. Let them work their way out on their own. They will get less active, I promise.

and by incarnation, I meant the next body we shall possess, physical or spiritual. Our next home on whatever plane we'll be on. I'm not sure what religion you are but in most, a 'spirit' is supposed to be what we will become. Reincarnation, as with the Hindus, denotes we live over and over getting closer to Buddha till we have achieved enlightenment, see?
:smile:

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Offlinespacedragon
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help m [Re: MOTH]
    #2734416 - 05/26/04 09:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Death is seen as a extremely powerful moment by Buddhists where we can attain a level completely free of suffering. However, people can tend to think "great, let's get to it." But, it's healthy to fear it or at least not take it lightly. Anyone can use the moment to become a God - you don't have to be wearing a monk's robe and be from a temple - but I must insist you exercise caution. Sogyal Rinpoche says "however you are in life, that's how you'll be in death" * with the same tendencies and ways of acting and thinking in the afterlife. So, death shouldn't be glorified and seen as cool - say, for instance, after Kurt Cobain iced himself - at the risk of freaking you out even more - you should be afraid, be very afraid. But, acknowledging that a human rebirth is very special and seeing how karma is so influential during our afterlives, we can take the necessary steps to make death a divine event & be reborn in a heaven realm.

Let's get the facts straight also about another coming of Jesus. If he does come, it will be in the form of a baby again and will have to be raised & taught until he can be a teacher again - just like hundreds of Buddhas have done to kick our ass back into gear.

Now, the aliens called the Elohim claim they will be bringing Jesus, Moses, Isaiah & some others because they went in their spaceship. That's not entirely true - the only thing they will have is replicas of these men. They have machines capable of combining the DNA code of a single cell and the "matter" necessary to form a complete human - it will have a soul but not the original soul of the shaman.

It's hard to explain, but to the Buddhists (and to some enlightened modern day thinkers and doctors, the soul enters the body on the 47th day after the zygote is formed * this is also the exact day you'll see very first evidence of the pineal gland in humans). Prior to your soul feeling a propensity to enter this vessel, you will witness your parents making love and whomever you may feel attracted to -- not necessarily a sexual attraction -- more of a yin/yang male/female kind of feeling, you will enter the world as a male (if attracted to the female) and vice versa.

Anyway, as I was about to write this message, I asked Jesus if he was in fact going to come again and he said yes. Go ahead and ask him for yourself. Of course you guys know by now I am not Christian - and would enjoy seeing the whole Judeo-Christian doctrine die out immedietly - I do in fact believe Jesus is a God of a larger Pantheon and earned his way like all other Buddhas have. There may be in fact a Christian paradisiacal realm, because according to Jim DeKorne it's all about "belief systems". I'm here as well to demystify all this cool stuff about becoming Gods. You can all do it too - you don't have to be Siddhartha or Jesus -- you're all Gods, you're all Buddhas - we just have to "realize" it again. By realize I mean not just in theory though - I used to read those passages and be like "OK, I'm a Buddha - but why don't I feel like one" there's a difference between understanding the theory behind it and truly realzing it:

Give all profit and gain to others
Accept all loss and defeat on yourself

Whether you like it or not
You will have to practice this
to attain Buddhahood (Heaven)

The immensity of those words, if your truly follow them, will take you all the way to Godhood. Jesus did that too - plus he got kinda screwed over by the trickster Elohim race - as well as the humans you mentioned who mistreated them. I wouldn't know really, I was an Eloha myself at the time I think. The Gods tell me I am not from here originally. I'm in a human form now, because of what I mentioned earlier of taking a rebirth and the DNA from your parents - but I have no real recollections of past lives. I was a evil Archon for a while, maybe there's no frame of reference or whatever or maybe memories of being a God - either a Peaceful or Wrathful Deity - can't be handled by a human brain.

Death is just a part of life (it's like taking off a shoe that's too tight * meaning you'll have your lense "cleaned" and you'll see nature with nature's eyes. The Buddhists say you can see past, present and future all at once and your clairvoyance and intelligence is 9 times what it was when alive in human form. I'm just trying to nail in the idea of how cyclical and infinite it all is.

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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help m [Re: spacedragon]
    #2734483 - 05/26/04 10:02 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Without the interesting personal twists, I agree witcha!

Thanks for posting!
:thumbup:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: MOTH]
    #2735612 - 05/27/04 06:33 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

we are wonderful incomplete things.
one sex at a time is merely a reminder.
we come we go.
focus on the wonderful stuff as opposed to the error of attempting to be complete beyond our scope.
maybe you need some salvia.

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OfflinePhishgrrl
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: MOTH]
    #2736049 - 05/27/04 09:24 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Hi Ellemysh- this is an exerpt from a book called "no death no fear" by Thich Nhat Hanh. I got it on audio tape. It has helped me a lot with the same problem. Good luck!  :heart:

A French scientist, whose name is Lavosier, declared, "Rien ne se cree, rien ne se perd." "Nothing is born, nothing dies." Although he did not practice as a Buddhist but as a scientist, he found the same truth the Buddha discovered.

Our true nature is the nature of no birth and no death. Only when we touch our true nature can we transcend the fear of non-being, the fear of annihilation.

The Buddha said that when conditions are sufficient something manifests and we say it exists. When one or two conditions fail and the thing does not manifest in the same way, we then say it does not exist. According to the Buddha, to qualify something as existing or not existing is wrong. In reality, there is no such thing as totally existing or totally not existing.

We can see this very easily with television and radio. We may be in a room that has no television or radio. And while we are in that room, we may think that television programs and radio programs do not exist in that room. But all of us know that the space in the room is full of signals. The signals of these programs are filling the air everywhere. We need only one more condition, a radio or television set, and may forms, colors and sounds will appear.

It would have been wrong to say that the signals do not exist because we did not have a radio or television to receive and manifest them. They only seemed not to exist because the causes and conditions were not enough to make the television program manifest. So at that moment, in that room, they do not exist. Just because we do not perceive something, it is not correct to say it doesn?t exist. It is only our notion of being and non-being that makes us think something exists or doesn?t exist. Notions of being and non-being cannot be applied to reality.

Thich Nhat Hanh


--------------------
Once in awhile you can get shown the light

In the strangest of places if you look at it right...


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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2737100 - 05/27/04 01:51 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you everyone.  :heart:

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OfflinePuZuZu
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: MOTH]
    #2738606 - 05/27/04 08:25 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

its natural. i'm not afraid of death ... by pain i am afraid. but not death. its completely natural, everything dies. why not? I'm sure the trip after death is quite an enjoyable, well, trip.

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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: PuZuZu]
    #2738740 - 05/27/04 08:46 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I'm pretty sure Jesus was saying if you dont see the light (feel god, etc, umm dunno how to explain it) you'll be in hell (aka mental state on earth)

nothing to add other than that :laugh:

great thread though, way to be so honest with yourself and others elllemy  :thumbup:

:heart:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: MOTH]
    #2739293 - 05/27/04 09:55 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Your fear of death is concommitant with your youthfulness. Your 'job' is to take care of yourself, and barring unforseen circumstances, live with a goal of longevity. Fearlessness comes with age. Only something like 8% of octagenarians (people in their 80's) fear death. I'm gonna be 51 and believe me, I'm in no hurry to die. People think I'm in my early to mid 30's and obviously, being on the Shroomery sets me apart from most 50 years olds. But...I don't have that blind panic any more. I am a vital man, youthful, enthusiastic, sexual, hungry for knowledge and experience, and I'd be crushed if I had terminal illness [GOD forbid], but I'd simply get real focused - collect my wits and a bunch of psychedelics, and begin to do 'dress rehersals' for the final ego-loss event. My spiritual practice would intensify and I'd make sure everything was arranged about my funery plans and my estate. I would practice samadhi like I did in my youth, say my goodbyes early so as not to have my emotional climate disturbed at the end - and begin to die.

YOU need to cultivate patience. It is not normal for a 20 something to be truly free of fear of death unless the death wish is actually drawing death to you, which is not fearlessness at all, but subtle suicide and resolution. So, those a**holes on their Japanese crotch-rockets who weave in and out of interstate traffic at high speed are not fearless in the sense that the Buddha Amoghasiddhi represents fearlessness (right palm outward, left, on lap, palm up). They are simply covering their fear with an adrenalin high. One cannot skip developmental stages in life, but one may need to speed them up a bit.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2739378 - 05/27/04 10:09 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

The more you speak, the more I look foward to growing old with wisdom. As usual, good post brother.  :heart:

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Re: Can I stop thinking of death as a negative thing? Help me? [Re: Zahid]
    #2740440 - 05/28/04 03:47 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Today I think I discovered the importance of faith. It really made me relaxed and calm to dwell upon it. Maybe not having intense fear for death is a matter of faith as well as acceptance.

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