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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25030743 -

akira_akuma said:
it's about motivations.


Which ones?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25030785 -

The world is a pure abstract phenomenon in which anything can be reasoned in anyway

This is what I’m thinking now.

What is “truth” but an abstraction of an assumption in itself?

Are we dying or growing?

Is it a fact that we “die” when it is a part of “life”?

Can one exist without the other?

Do these questions matter?

Do perceptions/opinions matter?

“What now?” - this is what I’d like to know.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25030805 -

Even if that were true, which I don't think it is, would it really be a bad thing? So what if people are driven on by fear of death? It's probably beneficial to be really driven throughout your life even if it is from fear.

Overall, I think fear of death is probably a good and healthy thing. Steve Jobs once said that death was one of the things that made him work really hard towards the end of his life.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #25030809 -

Maybe the concept of "death" is our only motivation, an obscure and unknowable blessing.

Maybe God is Death. Perhaps if we knew what death was, we wouldn't continue living. But because it associated with something negative, we do anything to protect its assumed "opposite" - "LIFE".

Do we even truly grieve our lost ones? And in doing so, what do we accomplish?

It seems like something unavoidable...But why do we fear our absence from each other so much?

Edited by remake (03/01/18 03:12 AM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25030825 -

Just assert a truth and see if you like the consequences of doing so.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: viktor]
    #25030877 -

viktor said:
Just assert a truth and see if you akira likes the consequences of you doing so.


Fixed.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: nooneman]
    #25031812 -

nooneman said:
Even if that were true, which I don't think it is, would it really be a bad thing? So what if people are driven on by fear of death? It's probably beneficial to be really driven throughout your life even if it is from fear.

Overall, I think fear of death is probably a good and healthy thing. Steve Jobs once said that death was one of the things that made him work really hard towards the end of his life.


good post.

Jokeshopbeard said:
viktor said:
Just assert a truth and see if you akira likes the consequences of you doing so.


Fixed.


crud post.

Zanthius said:
viktor said:
This. Death means that consciousness returns to God and is liberated from all suffering. What's to fear? One fears only insofar as one clings to the world.


Maybe, if people weren't so religious, they would have more death anxiety, and then they would work harder to invent new medicines to live longer.


indeed.

Jokeshopbeard said:
akira_akuma said:
it's about motivations.


Which ones?


all but hunger and procreation. those seem to be intrinsically co-evolved with the anxiety associated with knowing you're gonna die.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #25031852 -

Surely hunger and procreation would be the motivations MOST linked to DA?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25031860 -

akira_akuma said:
all but hunger and procreation. those seem to be intrinsically co-evolved with the anxiety associated with knowing you're gonna die.


I would also say group conformity, since we are social animals. And people often want to be perceived as better than other people, or have a high status. Maybe it increases procreation, especially for males.

So group conformity + desire for procreation -> desire for higher status in your group.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25031870 -

There really is no telling quite how our experiences and behavior would differ with a complete lack of concept or consideration of death

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Apples in Mono] * 1
    #25031872 -

Apples in Mono said:
There really is no telling quite how our experiences and behavior would differ with a complete lack of concept or consideration of death


I disagree. I think people would be much less interested in good health and in inventing medicines if we didn't have a concept of death.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if atheism correlates with an interest in good health, since religious people might have less death anxiety.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius] * 1
    #25031918 -

Well, sure, there are a few obvious particulars like that, but that doesn't seem to get us anywhere near a meaningful picture of how we should expect it would ultimately affect our general experience.

And in my experience, even those who are seemingly convinced of a positive, eternal afterlife, experience such fear or anxiety. They may even sometimes convince themselves that they don't, but it seems to me that they are always left with a cognitive dissonance, which causes stress in itself

Edited by Apples in Mono (03/01/18 02:45 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #25031928 -

Apples in Mono said:
Well, sure, there are a few obvious particulars like that, but that doesn't seem to get us anywhere near a meaningful picture of how we should expect it would ultimately affect our general experience


I live in a very atheistic country, and many people here are extremely obsessed with how healthy they are. I wouldn't say it is a trivial motivation factor. At least not here.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25031933 -

We are not afraid of death, we are afraid of humiliation, pain and the unknown.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25031942 -

FranniePilgrim said:
the unknown.


Oh yes.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25031953 -

FranniePilgrim said:
We are not afraid of death, we are afraid of humiliation, pain and the unknown.


Since humans are able to form a concept of death (unlike most other animals), I find it extremely unlikely that we aren't somewhat afraid of death. But more importantly, people don't necessarily know themselves. As I said, you can see your outside with a mirror, but you cannot see your own inside. Therefore, it is extremely difficult to know objectively what goes on inside ourselves.

Edited by Zanthius (03/01/18 03:03 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #25031969 -

Death is just a pointer pointing away from life towards non-existence. It makes no sense to focus on how to influence non-existence. It makes sense to focus on the other end of that pointer... life. And that's what it's all about.
It's just a rhetoric trickery.

It's simply the same as to say 'I do everything to stay alive'. And that's profane. Only the focus on the opposite, which is in fact just a pointer, makes this rhetoric stuff interesting.

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25031971 -

Zanthius said:
Apples in Mono said:
Well, sure, there are a few obvious particulars like that, but that doesn't seem to get us anywhere near a meaningful picture of how we should expect it would ultimately affect our general experience


I live in a very atheistic country, and many people here are extremely obsessed with how healthy they are. I wouldn't say it is a trivial motivation factor. At least not here.


Yeah, i wouldn't call it trivial at all; just the opposite. I imagine we would be smart to figure that, in this hypothetical, the lack of those motivations would translate to gigantic behavioral and experiential differences

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: Zanthius]
    #25032123 -

I wouldn't say I'm afraid of "death" as a concept, but I do fear pain, and what comes/doesn't come after.

Animals seem pretty scared of death to me sometimes.

When we stop thinking about death, we start living.

Anxieties usually include the past and future, but the now is always still.

Nothing really happens, except the stories we make up according to which we live, and tie ourselves to.

We try to be animals, but we don't get it right because of very human "insecurities" much like on a T.V screen.

We can argue about the motivations, but I think it has a lot to do with dreams, rather than basic instinct.

I don't regard absolutes as something to go by. The only thing separating us from death is physical injury. How we obtain this fatal "injury" is reliant on made-up concepts.

It is irrational to fear death, and most of us, I believe, are not afraid of death. But of life.

Life is the burden, not death. People make living hard on purpose because of fear, but this is not a fear of death, death is not some "thing".

We want "purpose". A very human thing. We are not the animals around us. But this "purpose" is wrongfully by our own conception and "imagination" made to be "animalistic".

It is an unobtainable goal, and we all return "home" to being average humans. There is no reason to live healthy. Life isn't made fulfilling by avoiding death, but embracing life by dying pleasurably and in love.

I'm a bit high right now and don't know what I'm saying. :peace:

Edited by remake (03/01/18 03:14 PM)

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Re: People really do nothing but postulate things to avoid the anxiety of death. [Re: remake]
    #25032173 -

FranniePilgrim said:
I wouldn't say I'm afraid of "death" as a concept, but I do fear pain, and what comes/doesn't come after.


You know, it wouldn't be difficult to set up an experiment to test your hypothesis. In Netherlands, they allow very sick or very old people to take assisted suicide. They inject something which don't give them any pain. You could just measure their brain activity when they get the injection. If people aren't scared of death, we shouldn't expect any activity in the fear centers of the brain.

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