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akira_akuma said:...

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I have low acceptance that death anxiety is more than general insecurity and taking things personally.

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i think that's just more DA talking. but let's just stipulate something to make this premise more clear, instead of short and opaque...i think that this wording "low acceptance" is rather well-said, but it's more of a language game you're employing sort of like apotropaic mental mine-laying, more than an exact consecution of the psychological fact of DA as false. the fact of your making stoic/buddhistic grammar choices in order to cultivate a feeling (and not an exactitude of logic or rationale to make clear ie ratiocination or awareness) that you can then use to "trick" yourself, essentially.

the term "insecurity" in your judgements betrays you. you seem to take the very notion espoused about DA as personally as i am....

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thoughts are mental objects - arising out of memory and feeding back into it.
while sensations are also mental objects - both  feeding into and arising out of memory.

(remembered sensations (and thoughts) are equal to new ones - same cerebral cortical cells are activated)

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bare attention includes:
80% mental objects that arise directly from sensation which have not yet been perceived or interpreted, and 20% that arise directly from memory as fragmentary perception uninterpreted the beginning edges of perception only.

when a meditator finds that remembered content is overtaking sense of the breath or body position (distractions), they observe the hindrance and bare awareness balance resumes.

ratiocination (musing, thinking etc.) is the process of associative perception and interpretation.
during ratiocination 80% of mental objects are  associative perceptions -  linkages from memory - and only 20% is from the raw sensory feed.

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a person usually cultivates anxiety by favoring ratiocination over bare attention, even though they think much more clearly when they practice bare attention: more time is afforded to obtaining a full perception before the associative process runs away with itself.

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does this obliterate the notion of DA? i think not.
does this notion of favoring "non-ratiocination" amount to anything but "sit, try not to squirm, and eventually die with non-action"? cause then i'd argue that life is truly meaningless and we should not procreate.

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Anxiety is from disconnecting with the live feed from the senses.

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i disagree that anxiety is disconnecting from the senses. i think it's literally the senses that people experiences no matter the depth of their awareness. is awareness not a christing sense?

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Fear of death is just one kind of obsession that can be the topic that anxiety struggles with. Maybe it is your biggest one, but it is not everyone's biggest topic and it certainly is not why we all tend to lose touch and become anxious.

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can you refute any of the OP? i mean, literally, refute it or assess contradiction. let's get to the crux of the issue.

but i must say, you say you think "it's" my biggest fear, and you're putting that on me...that's fine, but i think you're doing that "taking things personally" thing, because when i say it's a component of our thought-process (unconsciously), you seem to make it all about me. i'm not saying that it's about me...do try and actually refute the premise or conclusion, or find some kind of contradiction. otherwise, how can i know you aren't just saying things to make yourself "feel" like you're above the want to avoid DA, and are above the notion of said anxiety, because you can "be aware without thinking of mental objects". it's a cop out, because what if that wont to avoid "mental objects" is just another form of escapism? (not that i'd have a problem with that....)

but again, this isn't just about me, no matter how much you'd like to say it is...i know, it's easier that way...project...but i still think i have a point, and i don't think it's been refuted, unless, that is, i missed something- maybe you might want to reiterate- or you can just refute the OP. that'd be swell.

i don't think you're comprehending what i'm putting down. to shit and piss yourself is besides the point of death anxiety, as it is fundamentally understood...literally, fundamentally. you shit and piss yourself if YOU DON'T do elsewise...that's the premise...can you guys establish that for yourselves already? so we can have an honest discussion about it?

"anxiety" isn't even the right word for it, but that's the colloquialism.

do you need to have the concept explained further (i thought people were well-read on the subject...i'm having trouble believing that) it's hardwired into you. there, that's the argument. i don't think you'll want to delve into this perspective, because it'd potentially betray your sensibilities, but, this isn't about "quivering in fear".

this is about responses and action. one gets hurt, one aims to avoid that hurt again. one feels pleasure, one aims to achieve more pleasure. one thinks morals are from a God, one aims to serve that God, to please. one thinks ethics are a modal of conscious effort on the will of those who want to see morality prevail in the world of men- i say it's all an reaction to the foremost, "i don't want to simply die, i want to live, and i am alive".

so i don't think you're fully comprehending the concept here, no offense.

but anxiety, in this instance, is not "timidity" or "trembling" or hammering at all...this anxiety is mental-based.

now, come with a retort, now that you can understand more.

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"Nuh uh, you're lying to yourself becasue of DA".

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akira_akuma said:

LOL.

can we haz another death anxiety thread?

i mean, we don't need one. but we could have one- just like we could have a lot of things.

it's inescapable. no one can even broach this subject without the ignition sputtering into a new direction to engulf. it's impossible. there is no solving any of the problems in the human condition- we can organize things in differing ways, but there will always be the same problems- because we humans are incredibly simplistic, to the point of absurdity; which is why we can never truly change. we can feel change, assess it in our environment and in ourselves, we can promote change, will ourselves to change (like someone can will themselves to do any number of terrible or mundane things), but we can never change this-- we are unable to deal with death's encroachment, and everyone deals with it in determined ways that are bound for tragedy, for certain individuals whom will have to assert themselves within the echos of stressors they cannot control, or affirmatively destroy- with pleasure seeking exercises, spiritual discipline, et al.

due to the uncontrollable nature of life, from resources, to psychopathology, to the innate need for certainty, we will never conform to another notion outside of the box where undefinable anxiety resides, in where you know "I exist in this" is nothing more than an illusion of thought and a distraction to the ultimate claim that utters itself in indefinite silence, "I am still alive".

we have one method for normal people: survive. the prerogative is simple.

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akira_akuma said:

LOL.

can we haz another death anxiety thread?

i mean, we don't need one. but we could have one- just like we could have a lot of things.

it's inescapable. no one can even broach this subject without the ignition sputtering into a new direction to engulf. it's impossible. there is no solving any of the problems in the human condition- we can organize things in differing ways, but there will always be the same problems- because we humans are incredibly simplistic, to the point of absurdity; which is why we can never truly change. we can feel change, assess it in our environment and in ourselves, we can promote change, will ourselves to change (like someone can will themselves to do any number of terrible or mundane things), but we can never change this-- we are unable to deal with death's encroachment, and everyone deals with it in determined ways that are bound for tragedy, for certain individuals whom will have to assert themselves within the echos of stressors they cannot control, or affirmatively destroy- with pleasure seeking exercises, spiritual discipline, et al.

due to the uncontrollable nature of life, from resources, to psychopathology, to the innate need for certainty, we will never conform to another notion outside of the box where undefinable anxiety resides, in where you know "I exist in this" is nothing more than an illusion of thought and a distraction to the ultimate claim that utters itself in indefinite silence, "I am still alive".

we have one method for normal people: survive. the prerogative is simple.

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Does putting it in a neat little box make you less anxious?

Is being aware of the absurdity make it any more uniform?

Basically.....so.

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is remembering and invention the same thing?

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