This has been a question of mine for quite some time now. But first I would like you to know that I am (technically) a Roman Catholic. I was curious if any of you actually, whole heartedly believe in a god, or some supreme being. At this time I am unsure of my beliefs. These questions come to mind when I think if there actually is a god: Why do bad things happen? For example, I had a grandfather whom I was extremely close to, and a few weeks ago, he died. I ask myself, why did this happen, he was a devout follower of Christianity, yet he still died and left many loved ones who were also Catholics? Why? And how can one believe there is an afterlife? Has anyone seen it? Supposedly a place where there is eternal happiness, or a place of endless suffering? I also ask if there is a god, why hasnt he/she actually shown himself/herself in present day? It just doesnt make much sense to me. But to contradict myself somewhat, i then think to myself, where did the universe come from? There had to be nothing, then something. But how could this be? Science can not explain this, nor many other things. Then I also fear that if i dont believe in God that i may actually be condemed on judgement day.

I hope some of you can make some sense of where im coming from.

Thank you.

Ish.

If you believe in a "personal" God that takes an interest in your very own little life, this problem is most hard to deal with. A very good answer is that "evil" and things that hurt us have a place in this world and our spiritual development. It can also be explained that God does not take sides (as is so obviously the case) and very few things are "evil" from all perspectives. For example, to be devoured by wolves is a pretty evil thing for an Elk, but not so evil for the herd in general, and is actually a good thing for the wolves. I beleive it is the same for human morals, and as such I am a moral relativist - a concept that few people understand in the smallest way.

As for your last questiona about judgement day, dont sweat it. I was raised catholic too and went throught this.

Do you think God is a petty immature egotistical baby who is going to torment souls in all eternity because they did not have the right beliefs or follow some silly metaphysical protocol?? No Way!!. Hell and eternal damnation are contsructions of petty power hungry men that invoked the supernatural to help get power over others. Fuck 'em.

I do not know if there is a god in such a sense, or even a heaven, but I have complete faith that the only hell is made by us here on earth. I am willing to risk eternal damnation for my faith, any god that violates the spirit in such a way is no god but a demon and should be opposed. I also tend to believe that Heaven is here to be found on earth as well. If there is a heaven above, I believe that everyone gets in, even the Hitlers.

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The combined symbol for Ernie and Bert.

Casaxus, I'm reminded of The Simpson's episode in which The Flander's house is destroyed by a hurricane. Maude emerges and says "Oh Neddie, I was so scared, I thought I was going to the eternal bliss of paradise."

And FluffyBob's post reminds me of another Simpsons episode where Todd flanders is praying, "...And thank you God, for sending Lisa to save us from the bug you sent"

Bob, can you talk some more on what you mean by moral relativism?(probably another post) Thanks
-Mad Hatter

For me its not merely how could god let such suffering occur in the world but simply I do not really believe in alot of the doctrines of christanity.I don't really like it,the more I read the bible the less I like it.Its just the way I am, now all religion sort of repels me.

Now I am not trying nor will I try to convince you that what I think is right, its right for me and that is it.Its a matter of choice and what you need out of life.Some desire to make that leap of faith and that is very admirable,The only time I do not like it is when those that make that leap of faith say things like they feel sorry for those that do not,or that those of us that choose another path are somehow lacking in something, that I would say is wrong.Its really simple do you desire to make that leap of faith or not?I think it is healthy to question things and you shouldn't keep up the premise of being christian out of fear.You say you are afraid to not believe.Here is what it comes down to, some part of you question all this and that parts questions need some kind of answer.Being afraid to question your faith will not make the questions go away.You have to ask yourself how much do you truly believe and how much do you accept because you were raised that way?

In the end only you can answer these things and only you can choose which way is right.Good luck to you.

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"Were bigger than Jesus Christ right now..."
-John Lennon(1966)

As I see it, the strongest battle of the christian faith is that of belief.

all "evidence" is subjective and can be used to prove either answer ( usually pre-determined in the mind of the asker)

As I have been told, another tenant of most christian faiths is that of free will to choose.

Having an all powerful God tearing about the place and vacationing in a golden city in the sky for all to see would make faith, )and to a lesser extent freedom of choice to beleive or not) irrelevant.

I guess what I am trying to say is that from my light skimming of the subject, is seems that (for the reasons of my previous post), that the christian God would make himself
"unprovable"

Otherwise there would be no faith.

For reasons I can't quite explain (or prove)
I choose to believe in God.

(I have big time problems with most of the
christian church, but that's a whole other post )

Springbok

Well according to Genesis it's man who fucked the whole deal up. Death was a result of man's choice to disobey God.

But that's according to Genesis...

To me, the hand of God could be seen in the sun rising and the sun setting. Just look around. Also, look at the prophecies in the Bible, especially referring to the last days of earth, they all match up perfectly with our modern times.

I really don't know what I belive though.

And I can back that up to. Lovelock's Theory of Gaia has gained considerable acceptance within the scientific community. Because the evidence supports the conclusion. That all life here on the Third Rock should/must be viewed as part of an interconnected super organism, which self regulates itself in order to make the conditions nessecary for life possible.

Not to say that She's some benign, all loving and caring Mother Nature type (out of a modern fairy tale and a margerine commercial). Cause She can also be the Ultimate Bitch. If you cross Her, or pretend She doesn't matter and insist on building your house in a flood/earthquake/avalanche/costal hurricane zone, best to look out. You might get away with it, your kids might too, but their kids...it all catches up in the end.

Same with living your life. Gaia is about dynamic balance. She's not a static landscape, cause the one constant here on the Third Rock is change. But through it all, life manages to find the levals of interactive balance which makes for day to day existance. Upset that balance, and look for a correction to occur. Which is viewable as Gaia's way of laying the smack down on whatever tries to knock things way off kilter. LOL, too many lemmings? Where's that cliff? (And yes, I know that lemmings don't really jump over cliffs. But the image was too perfect. And being of the Irish, I'm not adverse to putting a bit of a shine on the truth, and telling things with a wee improvement. Heeheehee)

This has been a Public Pagan Service Announcement...

No, I don't believe in god. There may have been a creator, but it/they were not a "god" that needs to be worshiped, or even out that stuck around to find out how its creation was doing. If something or someone created us, we ceritinaly wouldn't have been the only version of us tryed, so, why out of the entire vast universe, would they focus on us? I believe that people invented god (as represented in all the major religions of the world) to explain natural phenomina, and to anwser questions that they couldn't anwser. "where do we go when we die?", "how did we get here?", "why are we here?". The major religions based their anwsers on what they knew of the world around them. At that time they didn't know much. Its incredible that today, when we know some much more about the world around us, people still acsept the anwsers that the major religions provide. The reason for this is that religion is imbedded into our society, its passed down through tradition and any "non-believers" are traditionaly ostracised.

The only "religion" I believe in is that of an open mind. I don't know all the anwsers and i would never claim that i would. But what I do is try and educate my self to the best of my ability before making any decision about what I believe. When I thought about it, the major religions just didn't make sense, this is why I don't believe in them. There are too many people out there who don't take the time to think. They just take life at face value and spend all of their time doing what other people tell them to. They try and fit in, make themselves popular, they are so caught up with their stupid little lives that they never take the time to think about why. And then they die, and its over, and their life, which they thought was so important doesn't matter worth shit. So, why waste your time trying to go with the flow? Keep an open mind, other wise you will always be a prisioner to yourself.

Also, a question to all these "specialty religions" wicca, witchcraft, pegan, satianist, etc, do you all really believe in that stuff, or do you just like the way it feels when people pay attention to you because you are a that religion? Not to put you down or anything, im just wondering. Any intelligent anwser ill be happy to listen to, i never reject anything at face value.

Isn't this Philosophy section great?

I cant bring my self to believe there is no god because bad things happen in the world, he just gives us our life and his love and sends us on a merry way, not pampering us everyday of our life, actually pain and suffering purifies when your strong. So just be strong and tough it out, and if your open to suggestion put your faith in him.
If not, dont, but we gotta beleive in somting right?

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Lunacy is when we no longer see the seems where our dreams and reality have been stitched together

-rEvolutionist

Hate burst your bubble, but there is nothing so special about human beings, that a "God" sits around and watches us...

This is just another example of cultural egotism at work. People think that since we have evolved brains and self awareness, that there must be some great "creator" and "watcher" of all this...

In reality, we are merely the latest evolutionary step off this mold known as "life" on Earth. who knows, if there is a God, maybe he is getting ready to Lysol the planet??? After all, life doesn't appear to be doing the planet too many favours.

Who knows.

Springbok

i do not believe in god

god-theory is just a primitive paradigm based on hive authority perpetuated through the herd by its inclination to obedience and need for superiority

it is a subjective being, not existing outside of a mind, but does anything?