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OfflinePsiTripper
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Registered: 09/09/04
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What God do you believe in (if any)...
    #3231879 - 10/08/04 05:23 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I have been struggling with this a bit lately. The only God I know anything about is the God of the Bible. I believe a person can learn great things from the Bible. Especially Proverbs (my favorite book). A lot of Jesus' words speak to me as well, especially about worry and earthly possessions. I do feel like the Bible has a divine quality to it. I also believe that Christ is very important in the religious scheme of things. I have accepted him as my Savior in the past.

Still there are so many religions. Is there a such thing as a right one? I think they all are built about the foundation of loving others. I think the greatest thing a person can do in their lifetime is live for helping others. To take the focus off yourself and give it to others. This sounds simple, but in today's world it's not.

I basically have two thoughts on religion...
1. There is a Creator
2. Put others in front of yourself.

I just want to believe these two things. The problem is I feel like I would be denouncing God and Christ. I believe their is a Creator, but how can I know that it's the God of the Bible. How does one know what religion or God to follow? I sometimes wonder if the same God is responsible for all religions and doctrines. Maybe he just gave bits and pieces to each culture, but in ways that it would fit that culture. Any thoughts?

Anyway, I just wanted to know what God and religion you follow?


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Music!


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Anonymous

Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3231997 - 10/08/04 06:45 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

thats right, there's only one divine god that each religion just wants to label/define as one of their own. each path leads to the same source. it doesnt matter what path you take to find god, as long as you find love. love is the only thing that matters. It is pretty funny how there is a lot of truth in all religions, and then there is all that garbage that just isnt needed that throws so many people off of something so simple and natural as showing love to everyone/thing.

its too bad people are so caught up in following the fundamentals of their own religions that they cant realize there is no big difference in the religions really at all, but the perspective in how you look at what is written.

but yeah, dont feel guilty for moving ahead in your spiritual journey, you dont need religion. its just one more path to help us find god. imo, there is a lot more wisdom in other religions than the bible, the bible....honestly...sucks six fucking cocks. i dont like it. especially the fundamentals that they follow, its so STUPID. i just want to go to church to pick the fucking people apart. id have the preacher for lunch.


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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3232117 - 10/08/04 09:33 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

PsiTripper said:
I basically have two thoughts on religion...
1. There is a Creator
2. Put others in front of yourself.

I just want to believe these two things. The problem is I feel like I would be denouncing God and Christ. I believe their is a Creator, but how can I know that it's the God of the Bible.




I was raised Lutheran, and believe me - even if you did believe in the Christian God, you're still supposedly at a lot of risk of eternal hellfire just by picking the wrong denomination. Personally, and I think that most sane people would at least somewhat agree with me here, I feel that this kind of thinking (concerning whom God chooses to love) completely contradicts Jesus' message. In fact, from what I know of him, Jesus wasn't too fond of organized religion. If you really think you'll feel bad for not following the Bible... at least go out and explore some other religions before committing yourself to Christianity. This should open your eyes to some of the ideas that the poster above me made, and also you may find that, when you're done doing your personal spiritual seeking (of other religions), the Bible may still be your book of choice.

Personally I really love Jesus' teachings, but I will not have them thrown at me by an organized religion. Every Church I have been to focuses itself on the fickle, how to separate themselves from others, etc etc.. Take the Bible on your own (I highly recommend reading it cover to cover, it's very interesting).. That's my advice.

This is also very good advice:

Quote:


each path leads to the same source. it doesnt matter what path you take to find god, as long as you find love.




:heart:


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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey


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OfflineGomp
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: lukeboots]
    #3232123 - 10/08/04 09:39 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Imagination


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3232125 - 10/08/04 09:40 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

God is just another justification for living within the system.

FUCK ALL GODS, STRIKE ME DOWN YOU MOTHERFUCKERS.

Every generation has had its own gods why choose any one.

There is no god only life energy. It is as simple as that and I deny anybody that disagree's.


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Offlinescape
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Ego Death]
    #3232138 - 10/08/04 09:51 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

You know, i was raised lutheran as well, then convertied to baptist. I honestly think that your right, as long as you truely believe in God your on the right track. Know that jesus died for your sins. All of that good stuff, i wonder how much God disaproves using Hallucinogenics, becuase i really think that each time i trip im on my way to being close to god.


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EVERYTHING I SAY OR DO IS FAKE, IM A COMPULSIVE LIAR, sorry for any confusion this makes.


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Offlinefredthetree
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: scape]
    #3232174 - 10/08/04 10:09 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

My Self.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: fredthetree]
    #3232194 - 10/08/04 10:16 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

if you are not looking for anything in particular you'll find it all.

that is god :P


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Offlinefredthetree
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Gomp]
    #3232198 - 10/08/04 10:21 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

You will find unimaginable things, if you cease to imagine what you'd like to find :wink:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: fredthetree]
    #3232220 - 10/08/04 10:34 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

"unimaginable things"
sweet :P


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3232526 - 10/08/04 12:03 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

the gnostic redeemer zen lutheran church, n.a.ltd.


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinetheknighterrant
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3232541 - 10/08/04 12:10 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

being a polytheist, i cannot tell you which god you should choose. the entire point of spirituality is to investigate the possibilities of religious experience. you do not need one particular god or belief system to do so. granted, it helps if you have some sort of framework available to you. all i can suggest to you is to study as many types of religion that you can (including the various brands of christianity and monotheism), take what you like and discard the rest. in time you may find that some of the things you discarded are now important than they were and you will return to investigate them.
religion does not equate spirituality. i have had encounters with some very religious people who were amoung the most spiritually bankrupt humans i have ever met. organized religion provides a framework, but also dogma. the more dogmatic the religion becomes, the more rigid the framework and the less open it can be to spiritual experience. this is not to say that there cannot be powerful spiritual experience within a highly rigid religious system (try reading some hildegard von bingen), but very spiritual experiences are always the minority amoung rigid religious frameworks.
unfortunately, many neo-pagan organizations are becoming as rigid and dogmatic as the 'big three' and losing their spiritual experiences. i have been a member of many covens, mystery schools and traditions. this rigification of neo-paganism is (imho) due to the personalities involved rather than the tradition itself. anyone who tells you that a pagan is this, or a christian is that has missed the point entirely.
investigate, investigate, investigate and then think, think, think. the answers will come of themselves.
happy exploring.

ps: in response to the question that is your forum heading, currently i have taken the summerian goddess inanna as my patron (or should i say matron). while i do spend most of my spiritual comtemplation following her, i have no problem 'communicating' with other godforms. each representation of the divine has aspects that are more suitable for certain workings or meditations.

tke


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The oldest and strongest emotion of man is fear. The oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.
--H.P. Lovecraft

Demented Piper Press


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Anonymous

Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Ego Death]
    #3233143 - 10/08/04 03:01 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

God is just another justification for living within the system.

FUCK ALL GODS, STRIKE ME DOWN YOU MOTHERFUCKERS.

Every generation has had its own gods why choose any one.

There is no god only life energy. It is as simple as that and I deny anybody that disagree's.






lol, this is a good example of what i was saying. this man says no such thing as god, yet is defining the same thing in his own words,"life energy", just to be able to say fuck "religion".

there is no difference but in the word/s you use to define "god.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3233207 - 10/08/04 03:17 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I believe in an ultimate reality that is pure consciousness. Everything in existence comes from this reality, and is connected to it. Beyond that, I have difficulty describing God, because God is so far beyond our understanding that words couldn't begin to describe such an entity.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (10/08/04 04:04 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: ]
    #3233222 - 10/08/04 03:22 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I say off with the heads of the demi gods too. Everyone is the creator god of their own universe to me.

Really, I just beleive in a life force giving ENERGY, that is intelligent, creative and powerful beyond measure or comprehension and permeates everything.

It's an indefinable energy to me that all is sourced from. I think the God in the Bible was a discarnate being playing god, who is just as clueless as the rest of us about where the source of all existance originated from.

Jealous, vengeful and requires worship and blood sacrafices? I think those words and emotions came from a discarnate 4th dimensional being or a human wanting to create fear to gain control over others.

Source= Intelligent, Creative, Powerful ENERGY. Anything beyond that is what we make of it with free will and our own inherant source energy.

Just my beleifs!


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3233374 - 10/08/04 04:03 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I believe in THE GOD. There is only One God. The God of Islam, the God of Christianity, the God of Judaism, the God of Hinduism, the God of the mystics. Different names for the Logos doesn't change that it is still the Logos. To me God is Love. He created the creation so that it might know God's unconditional love for humanity.


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Get back to work.



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OfflinePsiTripper
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3233437 - 10/08/04 04:36 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

there are alot of really great replies here. the post by allmakescombined pretty much sums up what I think I am going towards. Honestly I think mushrooms had something to do with me questioning things. at first it was depressing, but now i realize it's a great thing to think differntly than the majority of the culture.

i have read the bible, but i have not been to church since i was a child. just the fact that so many people dress up to worship their god does not make since to me. organized religion does seem rigid for the most part.


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Music!


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OfflinePsiTripper
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3233442 - 10/08/04 04:37 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

i think i would like to start learning about some eastern religions and doctrines.


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Music!


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3233448 - 10/08/04 04:40 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Rigid, but not void of Truth. Jesus still embodies the Word of God, and the Qur'an still embodies the Word of God. The Truth Jesus embodied is the same Truth embodied in the Holy Qur'an.  :heart:


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Get back to work.



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InvisibleApril
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3233582 - 10/08/04 05:18 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I believe in an ultimate reality that is pure consciousness.  Everything in existence comes from this reality, and is connected to it.  Beyond that, I have difficulty describing God, because God is so far beyond our understanding that words couldn't begin to describe such an entity.




I agree 100%  :thumbup:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: April]
    #3234217 - 10/08/04 08:23 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

i believe in god as an all present energy that contains the entire world. I think of him as a concious being, but one that is totally impartial in his dreaming. He favours not good nor evil, he holds no oppinons or prejudices, he just dreams everything, all the time.

We are within him and we are of his nature (made in his image) as even as he dreams us and everything, we dream our own realities, thus we create dreams within his dream.

God is the Tao, the everflowing fountain, the universal energy.

God is conciousness, the world is conciousness, we are conciousness. By realizing that our 'personalities' are our own personal shaping of gods limitless energy, we can then break down that ego and those limitations and tap into the universal conciousness of god.

In this way we can know god while within our earthly form.

When we die our energy, which has always been of gods essence, will lose its temporary form and return to the source in a blissfull reuiniting with our creator.

There we rest for an eternal moment in his love before reshaping in a new form.

the truth of it is that we are god. We are of his essence, we are only momentarily in this shape. God divides himself so that he can experience himself, this is the nature of life. We are gods experiencing ourselves, and our realities are the mirror of ourselves.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3234219 - 10/08/04 08:24 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

God is a word with connotations that have altered its truer essence. God is the Tao, the unity of the universe, and is within every human and DNA particle and atom and all spirits and energy beyond normal human perception.

Labelling God with an ego is just trying to make God a human reflection, rather than a cosmic reflection. God does not smite people, He doesn't punish sinners for all eternity, because God is not separate from the universe, not some Aryan in an etheral kingdom with a white beard and a whip behind every living thing. In the basest sense of the word, there's nothing much even mystical about it, until one experiences the nature of the Tao or God and begins to see God in everything


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Ravus]
    #3234311 - 10/08/04 08:52 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

"God is a word with connotations that have altered its truer essence. God is the Tao, the unity of the universe, and is within every human and DNA particle and atom and all spirits and energy beyond normal human perception.

Labelling God with an ego is just trying to make God a human reflection, rather than a cosmic reflection. God does not smite people, He doesn't punish sinners for all eternity, because God is not separate from the universe, not some Aryan in an etheral kingdom with a white beard and a whip behind every living thing. In the basest sense of the word, there's nothing much even mystical about it, until one experiences the nature of the Tao or God and begins to see God in everything "

Man, we sayin the same thing like a synonym.

righteous

:thumbup:


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3234646 - 10/08/04 11:04 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

None.

God (in the traditional sense) is an anthropomorphic paradigm of the universe and a catch-all explanation for all that the human mind is yet to comprehend (along with the little bit it does comprehend). Dogma and preconceptions only serve to cloud the human mind to that which it does not yet know or understand, hampering the ready acquisition of knowledge when it becomes available.

But, how do I explain... all this, that science cannot explain? I don't, one does not explain the unknown. Some people attempt to by making up stories or passing down stories that others made up (sometimes modifying or embellishing them along the way), but they don't know either.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3234732 - 10/08/04 11:29 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

I was born and raised Catholic. It took a lot of time to detox or deprogram myself.

I believe in God, but I don't think He is the God of the Catholic church. I think He is God of the world, of the Universe, and we don't really know who He is. I think He is probably the same God that belongs to all religions. I think He laughs when we dissect Him.

I do know that He takes care of me. I know, I'm delusional. But either I'm a really lucky person, or there is a God. There's too much that's happened in my life, though, to not believe in a higher being, whom I call "God".


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3234752 - 10/08/04 11:35 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

True, I didn't even see that until I went back after responding to the initial post and read all of them.

It must be natural corresponding lessons of life learned. Perhaps the Tao simply manifests itself more tangible to some people, or vice versa


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Evolving]
    #3235209 - 10/09/04 02:15 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
None.

God (in the traditional sense) is an anthropomorphic paradigm of the universe and a catch-all explanation for all that the human mind is yet to comprehend (along with the little bit it does comprehend).  Dogma and preconceptions only serve to cloud the human mind to that which it does not yet know or understand, hampering the ready acquisition of knowledge when it becomes available. 

But, how do I explain... all this, that science cannot explain?  I don't, one does not explain the unknown.  Some people attempt to by making up stories or passing down stories that others made up (sometimes modifying or embellishing them along the way), but they don't know either.




that's right no one knows!  :grin:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: kaiowas]
    #3235325 - 10/09/04 02:57 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Ah but one can know... they are called gnostics.  :wink:


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Get back to work.



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3235339 - 10/09/04 03:02 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Ah but one can know... they are called gnostics.  :wink:



No.  They're only arrogant enough to think they know.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3235413 - 10/09/04 03:29 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Where do you get the position to assume what someone knows or doesn't know?


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Invisiblejux
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3235427 - 10/09/04 03:34 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Where do you get the position to assume what someone knows or doesn't know?




from the inability to reference the ultimate reality

man cannot even reason his own existance. how can he reason ultimate knowledge


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: jux]
    #3235449 - 10/09/04 03:45 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

The knowers come to know God because ego dies. It is the ego that tries to reason its existence. The ego is not the credible self. It is the false self, hence it is called the false ego by mystics. After emptiness of mind (ego), followed by knowledge of mysteries - that is illumination of the heart.

I actually find it somewhat amusing when people question gnosis in general - an experience that can only be described as "experiencing yourself as..." well, God. COnsciousness. Duality is an ego game. When the mind is quiet, the world of non duality manifests. I guess this is why gnostics are the friends of God. The materialists scoff at their gnosis. The orthodoxy of religion scoffs at their gnosis. The only one who appreciates the gnostic are those who already know the hidden world and the Law of the hidden world: Love God, and Love all things. It is love that survives death.

So much love... the extreme opposite of the arrogance that exoterics accuse the mystics of beholding.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3235578 - 10/09/04 04:27 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
The knowers come to know God because ego dies. It is the ego that tries to reason its existence. The ego is not the credible self. It is the false self, hence it is called the false ego by mystics. After emptiness of mind (ego), followed by knowledge of mysteries - that is illumination of the heart.

I actually find it somewhat amusing when people question gnosis in general - an experience that can only be described as "experiencing yourself as..." well, God. COnsciousness. Duality is an ego game. When the mind is quiet, the world of non duality manifests. I guess this is why gnostics are the friends of God. The materialists scoff at their gnosis. The orthodoxy of religion scoffs at their gnosis. The only one who appreciates the gnostic are those who already know the hidden world and the Law of the hidden world: Love God, and Love all things. It is love that survives death.

So much love... the extreme opposite of the arrogance that exoterics accuse the mystics of beholding.




May I just say "wow". Very nicely said.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Frog]
    #3235664 - 10/09/04 05:00 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

what depresses me the most is the fact that most people never even discuss or even question these types of things that you guys talk about. most people, it seems, are too busy with consumerism. i struggle with it too. i desire to get rid of things such as my tv. sell such things and use the money for a good purpose. i can never seem to let go of my possesions though. i feel like i've been brainwashed towards consumersim since i was a child or something.

i wish i could just live on some island with nothing but books and loved ones. just devote my time to the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom. grow in spirit. i want something drastically differnet. i am getting bored with the structue of the culture i am in. it seems so shallow.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Frog]
    #3237005 - 10/09/04 06:38 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

:shocked: :sun:


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237038 - 10/09/04 06:55 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

I recomend some travel if your feeling tired of this culture. One of the joys of twenty first century living is that we are no longer forced to live our whole lives in the country or even continent of our births. Go somewhere else

And gnosticism is indeniably a technique to achieve the experience of yourself as god. However, the validity of that experience is something you simply cannot prove to a skeptic who has never had such an experience.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3237070 - 10/09/04 07:13 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

When did I say I was against any particular culture??  :eek:

It's not the skeptics I take issue with obviously, it's that some of them call gnostics arrogant; and this is exactly what the simple minded religious orthodoxy regards them as. Why is it that symbols of non duality are regarded as devious by most people?


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: kaiowas]
    #3237084 - 10/09/04 07:22 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

The Sun


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3237094 - 10/09/04 07:25 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

PsiTripper said:
i feel like i've been brainwashed towards consumersim since i was a child or something.




could be, I suppose everything's possible.

take everyone's idea of what God is and get the average. Throw away the extreme highs and lows. That's God.

Also, I am God. So are you.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237110 - 10/09/04 07:32 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
The knowers come to know God because ego dies. It is the ego that tries to reason its existence. The ego is not the credible self. It is the false self, hence it is called the false ego by mystics. After emptiness of mind (ego), followed by knowledge of mysteries - that is illumination of the heart.



That is pure self-deception. It is the ego which leads you to believe that you know anything in the first place. A truly egoless person would realize that they know absolutely nothing for certain, including their own existence.

Quote:

I actually find it somewhat amusing when people question gnosis in general - an experience that can only be described as "experiencing yourself as..." well, God. COnsciousness. Duality is an ego game. When the mind is quiet, the world of non duality manifests. I guess this is why gnostics are the friends of God. The materialists scoff at their gnosis. The orthodoxy of religion scoffs at their gnosis. The only one who appreciates the gnostic are those who already know the hidden world and the Law of the hidden world: Love God, and Love all things. It is love that survives death.



What you have described, I have experienced as well. Yet I also have an open enough mind to acknowledge the possibility that it could all be a lie.

Quote:

So much love... the extreme opposite of the arrogance that exoterics accuse the mystics of beholding.



How is love the opposite of arrogance?


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237124 - 10/09/04 07:39 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

"That's not God Homer, it's just an old waffle stuck to the ceiling..."

- Marge Simpson


--------------------
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Frog]
    #3237133 - 10/09/04 07:43 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
I was born and raised Catholic.  It took a lot of time to detox or deprogram myself. 

I believe in God, but I don't think He is the God of the Catholic church.  I think He is God of the world, of the Universe, and we don't really know who He is.  I think He is probably the same God that belongs to all religions.  I think He laughs when we dissect Him.

I do know that He takes care of me.  I know, I'm delusional.  But either I'm a really lucky person, or there is a God.  There's too much that's happened in my life, though, to not believe in a higher being, whom I call "God".





You capitalize "He" - you must be very confident God is male...Looks like you haven't deprogrammed yourself enough yet...but keep trying :thumbup:


--------------------
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237153 - 10/09/04 07:50 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

That is pure self-deception. It is the ego which leads you to believe that you know anything in the first place. A truly egoless person would realize that they know absolutely nothing for certain, including their own existence.




But gnosis is the extreme opposite result of ego inflation. Can you understand this aspect of gnosis? With the increase of ego inflation more duality begins to build on itself. In the streams of gnostic wisdom - the knowledge is only finally manifest to those who have silenced their false self. Knowing God through gnosis goes hand in hand (somewhat panentheistically) with basically knowing your true self. What you're telling the mystics is that they don't know themselves!

Quote:

What you have described, I have experienced as well. Yet I also have an open enough mind to acknowledge the possibility that it could all be a lie.




I don't think you what you experienced is gnosis - if it was, you would know. Believe me, you would. This isn't some melting sensation on mushrooms, here.

Quote:

How is love the opposite of arrogance?




Love/Compassion/Kindness are from a Higher Calling. God is majestic source of Love, Compassionate etc. The further one is from God, the more the ego begins to increase. Self realization is knowing that your ego is a lie. That is the greatest humility.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237177 - 10/09/04 07:59 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Quote:

That is pure self-deception. It is the ego which leads you to believe that you know anything in the first place. A truly egoless person would realize that they know absolutely nothing for certain, including their own existence.




But gnosis is the extreme opposite result of ego inflation. Can you understand this aspect of gnosis? With the increase of ego inflation more duality begins to build on itself. In the streams of gnostic wisdom - the knowledge is only finally manifest to those who have silenced their false self. Knowing God through gnosis goes hand in hand (somewhat panentheistically) with basically knowing your true self. What you're telling the mystics is that they don't know themselves!



Well, yes, when I experienced gnosis(or whatever the hell you want to call my experience), my ego was more or less non-existant. HOWEVER, it is egotistical to believe that because you experienced it, that it must therefore be true. Ego loss is not the same as objective truth.

Quote:

Quote:

What you have described, I have experienced as well. Yet I also have an open enough mind to acknowledge the possibility that it could all be a lie.




I don't think you what you experienced is gnosis - if it was, you would know. Believe me, you would. This isn't some melting sensation on mushrooms, here.



No, you do not know, nor do I, nor does anyone else, no matter how much they may claim to know. You certainly would not know whether or not I had experienced Gnosis, so it further arrogance on your part to assume such a thing. I refuse to let any experience stop me from questioning things. It's a shame that I can't say the same for you.

Quote:

Quote:

How is love the opposite of arrogance?




Love/Compassion/Kindness are from a Higher Calling. God is majestic source of Love, Compassionate etc. The further one is from God, the more the ego begins to increase. Self realization is knowing that your ego is a lie. That is the greatest humility.



Nice poetry there, but let's look at this logically: I can have all the love in the world for everything in existence, but that still doesn't mean I know anything, and to assume that I do would be arrogant of me.


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237207 - 10/09/04 08:16 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Well, yes, when I experienced gnosis(or whatever the hell you want to call my experience), my ego was more or less non-existant. HOWEVER, it is egotistical to believe that because you experienced it, that it must therefore be true. Ego loss is not the same as objective truth.




Ego loss does not equal gnosis. The gnosis comes from the Divine - when the ego has become quiet. Ego loss without a faith stance will not generate a gnostic experience. Ego loss with a faith stance will generate Self Realization.

Quote:

No, you do not know, nor do I, nor does anyone else, no matter how much they may claim to know. You certainly would not know whether or not I had experienced Gnosis, so it further arrogance on your part to assume such a thing. I refuse to let any experience stop me from questioning things. It's a shame that I can't say the same for you.




How does my mysticism stop me from questioning things? It has shattered my dogma and enstilled a estoeric formula of attempting unity with God (that attempt is simple worship, remembrance). What exactly is it that gnostics refuse to question then, ss7?

Quote:

Nice poetry there, but let's look at this logically: I can have all the love in the world for everything in existence, but that still doesn't mean I know anything, and to assume that I do would be arrogant of me.




You don't understand. Love and Compassion is not gnosis - it's only what flows from gnosis. There is a huge difference.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237221 - 10/09/04 08:22 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Quote:

Well, yes, when I experienced gnosis(or whatever the hell you want to call my experience), my ego was more or less non-existant. HOWEVER, it is egotistical to believe that because you experienced it, that it must therefore be true. Ego loss is not the same as objective truth.




Ego loss does not equal gnosis. The gnosis comes from the Divine - when the ego has become quiet. Ego loss without a faith stance will not generate a gnostic experience. Ego loss with a faith stance will generate Self Realization.



Faith stance, eh? So in other words, I have to experience ego loss, and then accept what's revealed to me without questioning it. Correct?

Quote:

Quote:

No, you do not know, nor do I, nor does anyone else, no matter how much they may claim to know. You certainly would not know whether or not I had experienced Gnosis, so it further arrogance on your part to assume such a thing. I refuse to let any experience stop me from questioning things. It's a shame that I can't say the same for you.




How does my mysticism stop me from questioning things? It has shattered my dogma and enstilled a estoeric formula of attempting unity with God (that attempt is simple worship, remembrance). What exactly is it that gnostics refuse to question then, ss7?



The validity of their experience. You do not even know for certain that you exist. You only think you do. Similarly, you only think that the gnosis that you experienced is real. You do not know for certain that it was real. As Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living. This continues to be just as true after gnosis as much as before.

Quote:

Quote:

Nice poetry there, but let's look at this logically: I can have all the love in the world for everything in existence, but that still doesn't mean I know anything, and to assume that I do would be arrogant of me.




You don't understand. Love and Compassion is not gnosis - it's only what flows from gnosis. There is a huge difference.



So someone who has not experienced gnosis is incapable of love and compassion? I find this hard to believe.


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237252 - 10/09/04 08:34 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Faith stance, eh? So in other words, I have to experience ego loss, and then accept what's revealed to me without questioning it. Correct?




A faith stance is a simple communication with God. It is looking deeper for true meaning. C'mon ss7, you of all people should know that mystics are one of the voices that question the dogma of orthodoxy. Does that mean anything?

Quote:

The validity of their experience. You do not even know for certain that you exist. You only think you do. Similarly, you only think that the gnosis that you experienced is real. You do not know for certain that it was real. As Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living. This continues to be just as true after gnosis as much as before.




What does existence have to do with any of this? Frankly these are just your subjective feelings on the subject. Just because you can't fathom self realization doesn't mean that others cannot. You don't relate to these experiences obviously, as now you accusatory about them.




So someone who has not experienced gnosis is incapable of love and compassion? I find this hard to believe.




Gnosis is within EVERYONE. Only a few people awaken to it via experience. Others have their own process of understanding God and making that connection. Gnosis is essentially knowing God as [S]He should be known. Love and Compassion comes from God, and these are the fruits of knowing God as God is. Literalists think he's gonna damn people to Hell, materialists think He's an asshole for damning people to Hell. The mystics and those who on the verge of complete non duality seem to be the only ones who know God is Unconditional Love, and dogmatic ideas of God do not express the Reality. They are only ideas - constructs of thought, of the Divine.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237277 - 10/09/04 08:48 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Quote:

Faith stance, eh? So in other words, I have to experience ego loss, and then accept what's revealed to me without questioning it. Correct?




A faith stance is a simple communication with God. It is looking deeper for true meaning. C'mon ss7, you of all people should know that mystics are one of the voices that question the dogma of orthodoxy. Does that mean anything?



Questioning the dogma of orthodoxy is like 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean: a good start. However, it ultimately means nothing unless you learn to question everything.

Quote:

Quote:

The validity of their experience. You do not even know for certain that you exist. You only think you do. Similarly, you only think that the gnosis that you experienced is real. You do not know for certain that it was real. As Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living. This continues to be just as true after gnosis as much as before.




What does existence have to do with any of this? Frankly these are just your subjective feelings on the subject. Just because you can't fathom self realization doesn't mean that others cannot. You don't relate to these experiences obviously, as now you accusatory about them.



What makes you think I can't relate to them? On one mushroom trip, my ego dissolved and I experienced oneness with God. I felt an intimate closeness with both creator and creation, and realized that they are one and the same. It was truly an experience of self-realization. And at the time, it sure felt as though I knew this was the truth, and I still happen to believe that it was, but I am smart enough to know that belief is not the same as knowing, no matter how much we would like it to be. Don't assume that because I am smart enough and brave enough to question such experiences that there's something wrong with me.

Quote:

Quote:

So someone who has not experienced gnosis is incapable of love and compassion? I find this hard to believe.




Gnosis is within EVERYONE. Only a few people awaken to it via experience. Others have their own process of understanding God and making that connection. Gnosis is essentially knowing God as [S]He should be known. Love and Compassion comes from God, and these are the fruits of knowing God as God is. Literalists think he's gonna damn people to Hell, materialists think He's an asshole for damning people to Hell. The mystics and those who on the verge of complete non duality seem to be the only ones who know God is Unconditional Love, and dogmatic ideas of God do not express the Reality. They are only ideas - constructs of thought, of the Divine.



You claim that love flows from God. Can you prove that it is not merely a part of the human condition to experience love and compassion? How are they any different from other emotions?


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237332 - 10/09/04 09:19 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Questioning the dogma of orthodoxy is like 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean: a good start. However, it ultimately means nothing unless you learn to question everything.




Ah ha! Which is exactly what the gnostic does. Everything is conceptualized as Duality. Gnosis itself questions the "ten thousands things" of duality. Gnosis however isn't a product of duality - it is Truth. If it was embodied as a lie, it would simply be lost in the world duality. Falsehood has no place in Oneness.

Quote:

What makes you think I can't relate to them? On one mushroom trip, my ego dissolved and I experienced oneness with God. I felt an intimate closeness with both creator and creation, and realized that they are one and the same. It was truly an experience of self-realization. And at the time, it sure felt as though I knew this was the truth, and I still happen to believe that it was, but I am smart enough to know that belief is not the same as knowing, no matter how much we would like it to be. Don't assume that because I am smart enough and brave enough to question such experiences that there's something wrong with me.




I cannot speak about the experiences of other, I can only speak of my own. My own experiences are Beyond Belief. Belief is for those who do not know. With gnosis comes knowledge of mysteries. I no longer need believe, because I know (to quote C.G. Jung who has studied the realized self for much of his life!). Claiming to know something when you don't is arrogance. It is not when you claim to know somethat that you do in fact know.

Quote:

You claim that love flows from God. Can you prove that it is not merely a part of the human condition to experience love and compassion? How are they any different from other emotions?




The human condition and their ability to become Love and Compassion is the Likeness of God. Humans are the mirrors of the Divine.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237351 - 10/09/04 09:27 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Quote:

Questioning the dogma of orthodoxy is like 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean: a good start. However, it ultimately means nothing unless you learn to question everything.




Ah ha! Which is exactly what the gnostic does. Everything is conceptualized as Duality. Gnosis itself questions the "ten thousands things" of duality. Gnosis however isn't a product of duality - it is Truth. If it was embodied as a lie, it would simply be lost in the world duality. Falsehood has no place in Oneness.



That has to be the greatest oxymoron I've ever heard. If Falseness exists outside of Oneness, doesn't that create a duality? You're really contradicting yourself here.

Quote:

Quote:

What makes you think I can't relate to them? On one mushroom trip, my ego dissolved and I experienced oneness with God. I felt an intimate closeness with both creator and creation, and realized that they are one and the same. It was truly an experience of self-realization. And at the time, it sure felt as though I knew this was the truth, and I still happen to believe that it was, but I am smart enough to know that belief is not the same as knowing, no matter how much we would like it to be. Don't assume that because I am smart enough and brave enough to question such experiences that there's something wrong with me.




I cannot speak about the experiences of other, I can only speak of my own. My own experiences are Beyond Belief. Belief is for those who do not know. With gnosis comes knowledge of mysteries. I no longer need believe, because I know (to quote C.G. Jung who has studied the realized self for much of his life!). Claiming to know something when you don't is arrogance. It is not when you claim to know somethat that you do in fact know.



God, why do I bother? You are sucked up by blind faith every bit as much as a fundamentalist.

Quote:

Quote:

You claim that love flows from God. Can you prove that it is not merely a part of the human condition to experience love and compassion? How are they any different from other emotions?




The human condition and their ability to become Love and Compassion is the Likeness of God. Humans are the mirrors of the Divine.



And how is that different than any other emotion? If we are mirrors of the divine, then that must mean that hate, anger, jealousy, and greed also flow from God.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237363 - 10/09/04 09:34 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

That has to be the greatest oxymoron I've ever heard. If Falseness exists outside of Oneness, doesn't that create a duality? You're really contradicting yourself here.




Oneness is ever present, but formless/distinct. The key word is 'panentheistic'. I am not contradicting myself. Falsehood becomes a backdrop that is not longer acknowledged in the ecstasy of unity.

Quote:

God, why do I bother? You are sucked up by blind faith every bit as much as a fundamentalist.




Tell me ss7, why do you bother? Why do you insist on Swamifying my posts.

Quote:

And how is that different than any other emotion? If we are mirrors of the divine, then that must mean that hate, anger, jealousy, and greed also flow from God.




Fortunately, your only basis that hate, anger, jealousy, and greed flow from God is a centuries old Dogma that you don't even understand the mythology (mysteries) behind it.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237381 - 10/09/04 09:43 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
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That has to be the greatest oxymoron I've ever heard. If Falseness exists outside of Oneness, doesn't that create a duality? You're really contradicting yourself here.




Oneness is ever present, but formless/distinct. The key word is 'panentheistic'. I am not contradicting myself. Falsehood becomes a backdrop that is not longer acknowledged in the ecstasy of unity.



Just as I expected.  More mystical bullshit that doesn't really make sense.  If everything is One, then that means that truth and falsehood are one.

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God, why do I bother? You are sucked up by blind faith every bit as much as a fundamentalist.




Tell me ss7, why do you bother? Why do you insist on Swamifying my posts.



If by "Swamifying," you mean showing the glaring errors in your thinking, I'm not sure.  I suppose part of it is to make certain that those who may be reading this argument can see the fallacies in your line of reasoning so that they won't become victim to this True Believer Syndrome, to which you have fallen prey.

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And how is that different than any other emotion? If we are mirrors of the divine, then that must mean that hate, anger, jealousy, and greed also flow from God.




Fortunately, your only basis that hate, anger, jealousy, and greed flow from God is a centuries old Dogma that you don't understand the mythology (mysteries) behind.



Ah, the old "You wouldn't understand" argument.  How enlightening. :rolleyes:


--------------------


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237430 - 10/09/04 09:59 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Just as I expected. More mystical bullshit that doesn't really make sense. If everything is One, then that means that truth and falsehood are one.




Honestly, I'm just trying to explain my experiences, formulate them if you will. I have no need though to battle with people like you with them. In fact, to engage as such is in contradiction with the Oneness of it all. Someone told me once with each step in wisdom, take two back in humility.

Quote:

If by "Swamifying," you mean showing the glaring errors in your thinking, I'm not sure. I suppose part of it is to make certain that those who may be reading this argument can see the fallacies in your line of reasoning so that they won't become victim to this True Believer Syndrome, to which you have fallen prey.




"True Believer Syndrome"? Honestly, get off your high horse. It's impossible to impose an experience on other people, so why are you assuming as such from me? You are accusatory, but why? 'Swamifying' indeed. Funny though, when someone dares to question the position of a skeptic, they're called products of 'True Believer Syndrome'! As if! And who is arrogant one here?!

Quote:

Ah, the old "You wouldn't understand" argument. How enlightening.




There are at least people willing to learn, to ask questions. To question their own persisting rule of unimaginable reasoning. In this sense you're contradicting yourself.

And please, spare me the pride of the eye rolling emoticon.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237442 - 10/09/04 10:03 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

if beleive god is the causless cause that caused all causes.
All that is, is simply infinity coming out of itself and becomes.

and cornelius, awesome avatar made my day,lol.
the female anus is a beautiful thing.


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Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name.


Edited by OOISI (10/09/04 10:15 PM)


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237445 - 10/09/04 10:03 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

sorry about the double post

oh yeah time for an ooisis quote: love aint god, but is the media for which it grows upon.


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Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name.


Edited by OOISI (10/09/04 10:17 PM)


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237481 - 10/09/04 10:22 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Quote:

Just as I expected. More mystical bullshit that doesn't really make sense. If everything is One, then that means that truth and falsehood are one.




Honestly, I'm just trying to explain my experiences, formulate them if you will. I have no need though to battle with people like you with them. In fact, to engage as such is in contradiction with the Oneness of it all. Someone told me once with each step in wisdom, take two back in humility.



A wise piece of advice. Now if you could just take the humble step of admitting that your supposed knowledge is imperfect, and that you could be wrong, then I'll be happy.

Quote:

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If by "Swamifying," you mean showing the glaring errors in your thinking, I'm not sure. I suppose part of it is to make certain that those who may be reading this argument can see the fallacies in your line of reasoning so that they won't become victim to this True Believer Syndrome, to which you have fallen prey.




"True Believer Syndrome"? Honestly, get off your high horse. It's impossible to impose an experience on other people, so why are you assuming as such from me? You are accusatory, but why? 'Swamifying' indeed. Funny though, when someone dares to question the position of a skeptic, they're called products of 'True Believer Syndrome'! As if! And who is arrogant one here?!



We both are. We both have egos, whether or not you choose to acknowledge yours. And I am not assuming that you are trying to impose your experience on people. I am merely pointing out that experience is not equal to knowledge. As for being accusatory, I am only accusing you of what you have shown of yourself in this thread. As for True Believer Syndrome, that is where one believes that they hold an indisputable, undeliable truth, and that anyone who contradicts it or even questions it is misguided or just "doesn't understand." Please understand, I am not trying to put down your beliefs. I am only trying to get you to question them, as well as helping those reading this thread to question their beliefs. If you cannot bring yourself to question your beliefs, then you are lying to yourself.

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Ah, the old "You wouldn't understand" argument. How enlightening.




There are at least people willing to learn, to ask questions. To question their own persisting rule of unimaginable reasoning. In this sense you're contradicting yourself.

And please, spare me the pride of the eye rolling emoticon.



I would encourage you to ask questions yourself. Don't just question what you previously believed, but also what you believe now. Question your assumptions(you sure make a whole lot of them).


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237498 - 10/09/04 10:34 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

A wise piece of advice. Now if you could just take the humble step of admitting that your supposed knowledge is imperfect, and that you could be wrong, then I'll be happy.




Funny, I don't see you anywhere in this thread making an example of humility.

Quote:

We both are. We both have egos, whether or not you choose to acknowledge yours. And I am not assuming that you are trying to impose your experience on people. I am merely pointing out that experience is not equal to knowledge. As for being accusatory, I am only accusing you of what you have shown of yourself in this thread. As for True Believer Syndrome, that is where one believes that they hold an indisputable, undeliable truth, and that anyone who contradicts it or even questions it is misguided or just "doesn't understand." Please understand, I am not trying to put down your beliefs. I am only trying to get you to question them, as well as helping those reading this thread to question their beliefs. If you cannot bring yourself to question your beliefs, then you are lying to yourself.




How do you know I haven't 'questioned' them? I cannot entwine knowing something with simply believing in something. It is the imaginative feature of the human mind that opens it to the hidden reality. Unreality is definately questionable, but once you begin to wayfare deeper into the Reality, your questions begin to fade. It's called wisdom.

Quote:

I would encourage you to ask questions yourself. Don't just question what you previously believed, but also what you believe now. Question your assumptions(you sure make a whole lot of them).




It's almost as if you're applying a question to an answer. Agnosticism does not equal an opportunity of humility as you seem to imply. It's also a refusal to confront the charge that people do have the capacity of knowing something. You are in denial this, and I encourage YOU to question this yourself.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237523 - 10/09/04 10:43 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

*** Evolving pulls on wading boots ***
Hey, can't you read the sign?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237527 - 10/09/04 10:49 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Quote:

A wise piece of advice. Now if you could just take the humble step of admitting that your supposed knowledge is imperfect, and that you could be wrong, then I'll be happy.




Funny, I don't see you anywhere in this thread making an example of humility.



Same to you. Now how's this for humility: I do not know anything for certain. If you can admit the same about yourself, that will be enough, and then I'll shut up.

Quote:

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We both are. We both have egos, whether or not you choose to acknowledge yours. And I am not assuming that you are trying to impose your experience on people. I am merely pointing out that experience is not equal to knowledge. As for being accusatory, I am only accusing you of what you have shown of yourself in this thread. As for True Believer Syndrome, that is where one believes that they hold an indisputable, undeliable truth, and that anyone who contradicts it or even questions it is misguided or just "doesn't understand." Please understand, I am not trying to put down your beliefs. I am only trying to get you to question them, as well as helping those reading this thread to question their beliefs. If you cannot bring yourself to question your beliefs, then you are lying to yourself.




How do you know I haven't 'questioned' them? I cannot entwine knowing something with simply believing in something. It is the imaginative feature of the human mind that opens it to the hidden reality. Unreality is definately questionable, but once you begin to wayfare deeper into the Reality, your questions begin to fade. It's called wisdom.



You may have questioned them in the past, but if you claim with absolute certainty that you know something, then you have obviously stopped questioning them, which is not healthy. The foolish man believes he is wise, while the wise man admits he is a fool.

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I would encourage you to ask questions yourself. Don't just question what you previously believed, but also what you believe now. Question your assumptions(you sure make a whole lot of them).




It's almost as if you're applying a question to an answer. Agnosticism does not equal an opportunity of humility as you seem to imply. It's also a refusal to confront the charge that people do have the capacity of knowing something. You are in denial this, and I encourage YOU to question this yourself.



I have questioned it, and if I have exhausted all rational possibilities that I do not know something, then I may accept it as fact. But I've seen your posts before, and please don't take this personally, but you have not exactly demonstrated the most profound reasoning abilities I've ever seen, so I somehow doubt that you have exhausted all these possibilities.


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Evolving]
    #3237529 - 10/09/04 10:50 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

:rolleyes:

Give me something to work with, at least.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237530 - 10/09/04 10:51 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Weren't you just criticizing me for using that same smiley?


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237547 - 10/09/04 11:01 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Same to you. Now how's this for humility: I do not know anything for certain. If you can admit the same about yourself, that will be enough, and then I'll shut up.




Unable. If I admitted to knowing nothing, I would be lying to myself.

Quote:

You may have questioned them in the past, but if you claim with absolute certainty that you know something, then you have obviously stopped questioning them, which is not healthy. The foolish man believes he is wise, while the wise man admits he is a fool.




Believe me silversoul7, we are all fools. However to question what one essentially knows has nothing to do with with the self - matters of the ego, which of course must be questionable, otherwise one doesn't grow out of egotism. ss7, I have found a deeper meaning in things - in God. Gnosis is a frankly a gift because it shatters blind faith, and one can finally realize that it is arrogance itself to question an already persisting answer. The answer is the foundation of non duality. It is like seeing the blue sky and asking out, "Is the sky really blue?". The sky isn't going to suddenly assert its blue appearence, it's going to remain sutle and blue, as it was before: an already persisting answer.

Quote:

I have questioned it, and if I have exhausted all rational possibilities that I do not know something, then I may accept it as fact. But I've seen your posts before, and please don't take this personally, but you have not exactly demonstrated the most profound reasoning abilities I've ever seen, so I somehow doubt that you have exhausted all these possibilities.




You are contradicting yourself. You have asserted that you don't know anything, and that you may always never know anything. You refuse to question this itself. That is the contradiction. The charge is that one can come to a realization/knowledge of the Truth. You believe that one cannot. Yet you don't even question this for yourself.


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Edited by allmakescombined (10/09/04 11:18 PM)


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3237549 - 10/09/04 11:03 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Weren't you just criticizing me for using that same smiley?




Have I used it with you? You are at least sharing your ideas and presenting dialogue. Evolving on the either hand posted a visual innuendo to 'Bullshit' then ran away.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3237589 - 10/09/04 11:23 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

I normally do not discuss religion because I live in the bible belt and am not Christian, This tends to cause problems so I keep it to my self.

Quote:


Anyway, I just wanted to know what God and religion you follow?





I follow the Ancient Kemetic religion. After years of studying the various religions, beliefs, and philosophies of the world I came to rest on the ancient beliefs because to be they best describe god and answer many questions which other religions seem to ignore or not acknowledge.

The simplest explanation of the Kemetic philosophy is that there is a GOD, In the kemetic language referred to as Neter, and that God is so far beyond man that man can not comprehend it as a whole. So, for man to understand Neter man must break Neter into Neteru (The plural of Neter, AKA GODS) These smaller parts of the whole, we can understand and comprehend. All the gods are individuals so that we can understand it, at the same time they are one god that we do not comprehend.

This is similar to the belief of the Jews that the Torah is the name of god (Thus written with no spaces or punctuation) but to understand the name we must break it into words and sentences that we can comprehend.

There is so much more and no where near enough time to go into it all.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237631 - 10/09/04 11:38 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Unable. If I admitted to knowing nothing, I would be lying to myself.




Knowing nothing for certain is different than knowing nothing. You may know everything, but you may not. That is knowing nothing for certain

To know everything, with no chance of not knowing everything, is just blatant egotism on a subjective human mind. It is deception that what we experience is absolute, which is just a subjective deception. Human evolution included aspects such as colors, forms, sounds, tastes, lines, and sensations; it also included depression, happiness and mystical experience. Yet its existence does not say that it is without error. Its existence doesn't even say it exists outside of you

Quote:

The answer is the foundation of non duality. It is like seeing the blue sky and asking out, "Is the sky really blue?". The sky isn't going to suddenly assert its blue appearence, it's going to remain sutle and blue, as it was before: an already persisting answer.




An already persisting answer? More like a continuously existing deception. You speak of humility, yet it seems from your speak that you have not experienced true humility, that all the things you consider sacred and absolute are just personal experiences that you will consider sacred and absolute.

"The reasons for which 'this' world has been characterized as 'apparent' are the very reasons which indicate its reality; any other kind of reality is absolutely indemonstrable."
-Nietzsche


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Ravus]
    #3237662 - 10/09/04 11:51 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Knowing nothing for certain is different than knowing nothing. You may know everything, but you may not. That is knowing nothing for certain

To know everything, with no chance of not knowing everything, is just blatant egotism on a subjective human mind. It is deception that what we experience is absolute, which is just a subjective deception. Human evolution included aspects such as colors, forms, sounds, tastes, lines, and sensations; it also included depression, happiness and mystical experience. Yet its existence does not say that it is without error. Its existence doesn't even say it exists outside of you




I definately do not 'know everything'; as far as what I know, I know myself. Individuated people know this for themselves, and are able to differentiate from personal knowledge and academic persuits of knowledge. Gnosis is definately not academic. It is hardly a global effort, and I definately do not treat it as such. I know myself. Some people like to say otherwise, but that is simply their point of position.

Quote:

An already persisting answer? More like a continuously existing deception. You speak of humility, yet it seems from your speak that you have not experienced true humility, that all the things you consider sacred and absolute are just personal experiences that you will consider sacred and absolute.

"The reasons for which 'this' world has been characterized as 'apparent' are the very reasons which indicate its reality; any other kind of reality is absolutely indemonstrable."
-Nietzsche




My precise point is that humility is also how you conceptualize your own reality outwardly in a fashion that draws the least possible attention to your ego. It is to lower one's self. To apply a completely un-needed personal, inner conflict of questions to an equal amount of answers is not humility - it falls along the lines of the opposite of self denial.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237669 - 10/09/04 11:55 PM (17 years, 20 days ago)

"as far as what I know, I know myself."

Ah, that is much better. From your earlier posts it sounded like you were trying to say something much more, of absolute unarguable knowledge you, a subjective human, had experienced, but I understand better now


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Ravus]
    #3237680 - 10/10/04 12:00 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

And it's this self realization that ss7 finds questionable - I can only disagree with that. This whole debate began when ss7 asserted nothing can be known - going so far to deny self realization as wishful arrogance. That kind of mentality is questionable from an academic perspective especially when ss7 is blasting a personal one. I know myself. What is questionable is that ss7 insists that even we cannot know ourselves. That's were all of this snow balled from.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237731 - 10/10/04 12:24 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Evolving on the either hand posted a visual innuendo to 'Bullshit' then ran away.



Ran away? Please, I just find it silly that anyone can be so smug in unfounded beliefs, you prattle on like a patient in a psych ward. There is no reasoning with you, for you do not engage in it, you merely make unsubstantiated statements. They can not be verified, they are mere bald assertions brought back from... where? A temporary psychotic state induced by hallucinogens?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3237771 - 10/10/04 12:40 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

The words attributed to Jesus affirm what you wish to believe. The first commandment is part of the Jewish Shema: "Hear O Israel, the LORD thy GOD, the LORD is ONE. Thou shalt love the LORD thy GOD with all thy heart, with all thy soul and with all thy might." The second part attributed to Jesus is "Love thy neighbor as thyself." The first commandment reflects our 'vertical' relationship with GOD, the second reflects our 'horizontal' relationship with others. If we realize that the metaphysical nature of GOD is love (1 John 4:8), or better translated 'Compassion' (closer to the Greek 'agape'), then we know how to BE and what to DO. Where then is your denouncement of GOD and Christ???? It is an affirmation!

As to the TRUTH of other faiths: Only the outer, or exoteric 'forms' of religion are different. These are the mere husks, not the kernals of religious TRUTH. The 'fundamentalists' of faiths - Jewish, Christian or Islamic seem to know nothing but the outer forms and differences. They DO NOT KNOW that TRUTH is ONE. The inner, esoteric nature of religions IS the TRUTH. An esoteric (mystic) Christian is closer to a Jewish or Muslim mystic, for example than he is to a fundamentalist Christian.

A classic way of looking at the differences between religions was penned by Frithjof Schuon in The Transcendent Unity of Religions. He likened all religions to different sides of a multi-sided mountain. At the base where the sides were widest, the differences were greatest (exoteric religion). As one ascended the mountain, the sides tapered and narrowed and so did the differences. About half way up the mountain, the differences were so much less that they began to become esoteric (inner). At the summit, the peak, all religions merged into a single point - TRUTH - which is ONE.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3237905 - 10/10/04 01:51 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
Quote:

Same to you. Now how's this for humility: I do not know anything for certain. If you can admit the same about yourself, that will be enough, and then I'll shut up.




Unable. If I admitted to knowing nothing, I would be lying to myself.



And that right there is the epitome of arrogance. 'Nuff said.

Quote:

Quote:

I have questioned it, and if I have exhausted all rational possibilities that I do not know something, then I may accept it as fact. But I've seen your posts before, and please don't take this personally, but you have not exactly demonstrated the most profound reasoning abilities I've ever seen, so I somehow doubt that you have exhausted all these possibilities.




You are contradicting yourself. You have asserted that you don't know anything, and that you may always never know anything. You refuse to question this itself. That is the contradiction. The charge is that one can come to a realization/knowledge of the Truth. You believe that one cannot. Yet you don't even question this for yourself.



Pay closer attention. I have not discounted the possibility of knowing anything, I said that in order to know something for certain, I would have to be able to disprove all other possibilities. I have questioned this for myself, despite what you claim. But note that possible and probable are two different things. Just because it might be possible for us to know something for certain doesn't make it any more probable than the tooth fairy being elected president of the United States.


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3238075 - 10/10/04 02:54 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

I take issue when others try to downplay the self realization of others simply because they themselves do not relate to this realization on a personal level. My self realization is personal, not academic. It is individuated into metaphysics, not a product of literalism amongst a perspective 'global salvation' of people. Do you find the relationship between a mother and a child academic? Do you question a mother's love for her child? Furthermore, would you question your own mother's unconditional love for you? There comes a point during the process of individuation where the questions you ardently encourage are silenced and subsequently answered by your own being; prior to the ego which demands such 'rational satisfaction'. As if one can rationalize something that manifests itself as so obviously distinct from any pedantic reasoning of material surroundings. Question others, and question the arche types (and what meets those needs) of other people all you want in the name of your own subjective ideas of what defines 'humility' - on a personal level, there are people who have realized themselves, their reality, and essentially what fulfils the accusing self that cries out for its own realization. Your own ideas of what merits arrogance are clearly questionable when you attempt to dissect awakening process of those outside your own reality (people other than you). Find yourself, as that should be your concern, not that of others.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3238105 - 10/10/04 03:11 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Why come to a conclusion on what to believe in if there's no way to find out what the correct answer is?

I can understand the desire to make a decision. The idea that you have no idea what reality and life really consist of is kind of frightening, but it's really the only completely accurate answer.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3238116 - 10/10/04 03:15 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
I take issue when others try to downplay the self realization of others simply because they themselves do not relate to this realization on a personal level. My self realization is personal, not academic.



Were you or were you not trying to use this so-called "self-realization" as grounds for saying you knew God existed? Furthermore, why is it "downplaying" it when I'm merely asking you to question it?

Quote:

It is individuated into metaphysics, not a product of literalism amongst a perspective 'global salvation' of people. Do you find the relationship between a mother and a child academic?



Not necessarily, but it can and has been examined on that level before.

Quote:

Do you question a mother's love for her child?



In some respects. The mother may think she loves the child, but may have no real understanding of what love is.

Quote:

Furthermore, would you question your own mother's unconditional love for you?



I question everything, and this too is not beyond my own skepticism. I believe my mother loves me unconditionally, and I believe she believes that she loves me unconditionally, but this does not necessarily make it so.

Quote:

There comes a point during the process of individuation where the questions you ardently encourage are silenced and subsequently answered by your own being;



Only in the mind of a coward who is afraid to ask such questions.

Quote:

prior to the ego which demands such 'rational satisfaction'. As if one can rationalize something that manifests itself as so obviously distinct from any pedantic reasoning of material surroundings. Question others, and question the arche types (and what meets those needs) of other people all you want in the name of your own subjective ideas of what defines 'humility' - on a personal level, there are people who have realized themselves, their reality, and essentially what fulfils the accusing self that cries out for its own realization. Your own ideas of what merits arrogance are clearly questionable when you attempt to dissect awakening process of those outside your own reality (people other than you).



While I acknowledge the possibity that you have "awakened," you show no real signs of it in your posts. It is hardly humble of you to believe you are above certain questions.

Quote:

Find yourself, as that should be your concern, not that of others.



To the best of my knowledge, I have found myself. I don't know for certain, because as far as I can tell, I can't know anything for certain, but I believe because my instincts tell me I'm right. As for concern for others, why are you here? If your own spiritual path is so personal to you, why even bother sharing it with the rest of us on this board, leaving your ideas open to scrutiny? You brought this upon yourself.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3238117 - 10/10/04 03:15 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

it is arrogance itself to question an already persisting answer

God's existance is only a "persisting answer" if you already believe in it. Once an opinion or belief is formed, people seek out justification, and interpret everything as evidence of its existance.

To those of us without an existing god bias, god's existance is not the most obvious answer.

The way you feel about the existance of god is the way I feel about not truly being able to know the answer.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3238142 - 10/10/04 03:21 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Do you find the relationship between a mother and a child academic?

What do you mean by academic? If you mean can it be analyzed and discussed? Of course. Just because love is such a powerful emotion doesn't mean that it isn't logical, or that it's magical or related to "metaphysics".

as so obviously distinct from any pedantic reasoning of material surroundings.

How is it obvious? Do you mean that it "feels" correct, or do you have some sort of explanation of why it's obvious?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3238187 - 10/10/04 03:43 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Were you or were you not trying to use this so-called "self-realization" as grounds for saying you knew God existed? Furthermore, why is it "downplaying" it when I'm merely asking you to question it?




Knowing God is Self Realization. How does one go about questioning one's own Self Realization? The problem here is that a conscious relationship with God is personal, not academic.

Quote:

Not necessarily, but it can and has been examined on that level before.




Examined objectively, but never abandoned.

Quote:

In some respects. The mother may think she loves the child, but may have no real understanding of what love is.




See, this is my point - no one under this pretense is suggesting the mother and child break their love for one another.

Quote:

I question everything, and this too is not beyond my own skepticism. I believe my mother loves me unconditionally, and I believe she believes that she loves me unconditionally, but this does not necessarily make it so.




However, the dice is in your hands whether you consciously love your mother or not. You have knowledge of your own natural and biological response to your mother's love for you.

Quote:

Only in the mind of a coward who is afraid to ask such questions.




Mysticism itself is a process questioning; it would have to as mystics constantly seek to penetrate the mystery of TRUTH - the deeper the mystery goes, the more 'spread out' the answers get. Eventually the Question is met with a Question itself. If you're going to ask the countenance of God "Who are you?" you will only get "Well, who are you?" in return. Eventually one's answer lies in the fact that it's the ego that asks questions, not the hidden God mirror within.

Quote:

While I acknowledge the possibity that you have "awakened," you show no real signs of it in your posts. It is hardly humble of you to believe you are above certain questions.




Thanks for the analysis, ss7. Really, I appreciate those. And as of yet, you haven't made clear what constitutes 'questioning' from your perspective. Question what exactly - how?  :tongue2: When a question is met with another question, only then will one realize that they are mirrors of a greater being of realization.

Quote:

To the best of my knowledge, I have found myself. I don't know for certain, because as far as I can tell, I can't know anything for certain, but I believe because my instincts tell me I'm right. As for concern for others, why are you here? If your own spiritual path is so personal to you, why even bother sharing it with the rest of us on this board, leaving your ideas open to scrutiny? You brought this upon yourself.




Since when did this became an argument? This forum is about friendly discussion. I frankly don't warm up to people like you and Swami are come off as a bully of ideas instead of a humble candidate for friendly dialogue. Can you see the difference? Probably not.


--------------------
Get back to work.



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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Phluck]
    #3238204 - 10/10/04 03:50 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
it is arrogance itself to question an already persisting answer

God's existance is only a "persisting answer" if you already believe in it. Once an opinion or belief is formed, people seek out justification, and interpret everything as evidence of its existance.

To those of us without an existing god bias, god's existance is not the most obvious answer.

The way you feel about the existance of god is the way I feel about not truly being able to know the answer.




See, to alot of people the general idea of God is academic and legal - not personal. There is absolutely no room for anyone to know God on a level other than a personal one. This personal connection with God (ie, being conscious of God) is what gives foundation to gnosis. It's the science of intention.


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Get back to work.



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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3238242 - 10/10/04 04:05 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

To you, it's a "personal connection with god", to me, it's a set of emotions that leads us to believe there is a deity that created and controlled us.

Of course it's a personal experience. You can't fully comprehend what religion is like until you've experienced it first hand. However, the nature of the experience is immaterial when you're discussing whether or not the conclusions you've reached as a result of your experiences are true or not.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlineallmakescombined
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Phluck]
    #3238257 - 10/10/04 04:13 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

To you, it's a "personal connection with god", to me, it's a set of emotions that leads us to believe there is a deity that created and controlled us.




To me it is a connection to the origin of consciousness/being, and to you it is immaterial, and thus illogical. Therein lies our differences.


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Get back to work.



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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: ]
    #3238330 - 10/10/04 05:23 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

>>>There is no difference.

To me, theres a very big difference between believing in life and believing in religion, kottenmouth.


--------------------


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Ego Death]
    #3238520 - 10/10/04 07:18 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

The 'Shroom god...the almighty shroom!


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OfflinePsiTripper
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Skunk420]
    #3238665 - 10/10/04 09:56 AM (17 years, 20 days ago)

wow ss7 and allmakes had it going for awhile there! interesting discussion. marko had an interesting view on things.


--------------------
Music!


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3240475 - 10/10/04 10:40 PM (17 years, 19 days ago)

what you guys are arguing about is a basic misunderstanding of terminology. Allmakescombined is talking about the human capability of achieving pure EXPERIENTIAL understanding. Logical, thought based understanding, however , can never be called universal, absolute or even really true, They are however two entirely different ways of understanding reality. Any argument, idea, thought or conclusion can be argued or disproved. An experience such as that achieved by the gnostic, is beyond thought, and therefore beyond contradiction of disproval.

And when i said that stuff about being bored with culture, i was talking to psitripper, not you allmakes.

peace


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3240993 - 10/11/04 12:54 AM (17 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

PsiTripper said:
what depresses me the most is the fact that most people never even discuss or even question these types of things that you guys talk about. most people, it seems, are too busy with consumerism. i struggle with it too. i desire to get rid of things such as my tv. sell such things and use the money for a good purpose. i can never seem to let go of my possesions though. i feel like i've been brainwashed towards consumersim since i was a child or something.

i wish i could just live on some island with nothing but books and loved ones. just devote my time to the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom. grow in spirit. i want something drastically differnet. i am getting bored with the structue of the culture i am in. it seems so shallow.




I was forced to rid my self of possessions a couple of years ago. I didn't realize I was caught up in consumerism, but I realize, in hindsight, that I was.

You don't need to live on an island. You can experience a life devoid of consumerism where ever it is you reside. I reside in one of the wealthiest counties in the country, but I have nothing, really, compared to what people here own.

And I devote most of my life to spirituality, and figuring out the Universe, and why we are here, etc. We don't need to live on the top of a mountain to figure life out, or to be spiritual.

The biggest challenge of all, imo, is to live in society and still manage to figure it out, to come out on top. Not come out on top financially, but to come out on top spiritually.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Frog]
    #3245162 - 10/11/04 11:22 PM (17 years, 18 days ago)

yeah i did not mean being on the island so much for isolation. i would like to live in a tropic region becuase i love the beach and warm weather. i just meant it would be the ideal place for me. thank you for the reply Frog.


--------------------
Music!


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3255689 - 10/20/04 01:14 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

How does one know what religion or God to follow? I sometimes wonder if the same God is responsible for all religions and doctrines. Maybe he just gave bits and pieces to each culture, but in ways that it would fit that culture. Any thoughts?

So... does God have a Creator of its own? Did God once not exist, then began existing inexplicably or did God always exist? :confused:

If God has always existed and has no beginning (and presumably no end), then it is a continuum without endpoints. Why assign a hierarchy to something that can't be framed with that concept by implying that God is somehow superior to each of us and should be 'followed'?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: PsiTripper]
    #3255743 - 10/20/04 01:26 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

I'd just like to say if there is a God(I believe there is), such an entity would be so far beyond our comprehension that any attempt to understand it could not encapsulate even a small fraction of it nature. It may well be that those who say there is a God and those who say there isn't are both right(or both wrong), as our rules of logic can only account for so much of this reality(study quantum physics and see just how counterintuitive it is--then imagine how much more of our universe is still unknown).


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3255795 - 10/20/04 01:37 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

I'd just like to say if there is a God(I believe there is), such an entity would be so far beyond our comprehension that any attempt to understand it could not encapsulate even a small fraction of it nature.

If this is so, then it renders a seminal understanding of the universe (a creation of God) forever out of reach. A universe without an ultimate explanation irks me and seems inconsistent with the humbling and deeply moving beauty of both nature and the mathematics being used to characterize it.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: What God do you believe in (if any)... [Re: Diploid]
    #3255830 - 10/20/04 01:46 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

God is and God isnt.

but at least he is when i want him to be.

if i believe i am a figment of *my god* and that my god is a figment of *something else* et all.

then im just a part of the never ending story.

*cue music*

woh ohohohOH ohWOHohohWoh!


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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