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OfflineLiquidSmoke
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Why I still go to church
    #826906 - 08/18/02 11:28 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

NO one would consider me a Christian.


I've shroomed about 7 times the past year and I've smoked/sold weed for so long too.


You can find me alot on these message boards downgrading religion in aspects.


Although through all of this, I still get up on Sunday mornings, dress up, grab my Bible, and go to church. Now, this isn't some sort of missionary post trying to coax you to become christians. I chose to respect your choices of beliefs and acknowlegde that my perspective isn't superior in any way.

All i'm trying to do through this post is allow people to see another point of view on the whole religion issue.

So why do I still go to church? Simple.




The philosophies presented help me become a better person. Now, I don't know if the same would work for you, but like with drugs, people tend to knock religion untill they've TRUELY tried it.

"A preacher molested a boy so now the whole religion is wrong."

People seem to think christianity is some sort of 'evil empire' trying to manipulate and brainwash people into joining in. You see, the perspective is alot different speaking from the inside.

Missionary's aren't out there to spread they're political influence or enslave foreign races. Missionary's are out there because the Bible says you'll go to hell if you don't believe in it and they don't want people going to hell. Simple as that. Yes there are the bad apples, but once again, generalizing it to the whole group is invalid.

Alot of people see a painting of Jesus and think "oh, he's WHITE. Therefore christianity is implying WHITE people are superior."

Christians see the same painting and just think "there's a picture of a great man who did great things." See what i'm saying?



Anyways, back on topic. I go to church because it helps me become a better person. I am greeted by smiling elders who ask about how my life is going and what problems i face. I am surrounded by people who have chosen to devote their lives to the church.

Sometimes i get asked if Christianity is a tolerant religion. No, it isn't. In fact christians tend to downgrade other religions as much as possible. They get criticized for doing so, but once again, realize WHY they do it. The Bible says if you don't believe in Him, you go to hell. So when they see people part of other religions, they try to step in and lead others into what THEY believe is the right path. It's not close-minded as much as it is self-less.




I think alot of people on this forum have forgotten the good aspects of religion in general. My church is like a community. We go out on buses every month down to Tijuana and visit the local children orphanages. We donate our time, food, medical supplies, and energy to save the hope for these kids. All because the Bible tells us to be this way. We go marching out on the streets of Los Angeles, gathering as many homeless people from around the area as possible and bring them into our cafeterias for free meals. All because the Bible tells us to be this way.

And guess what. All the media, news, and cameras are focused on some idiot up north who molested a little boy. Now many people look down upon the religion as a whole because of this. How do you think people from my church feel?


Here's the bottom line.






Untill you see the big picture of church/religion and so forth, don't bash it. Because you're not any better than those conservative folks who label drug users as 'supporters of Osama'.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #826920 - 08/18/02 11:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with you on most points. I also go to church regularly even though it is no longer spiritually fulfilling for me. I think the church still plays a role in society.

However I disagree that missionaries are "good people". I know they go out there with good intentions but they don't consider the consequences of their actions. They are responsible for destroying many native or "pagan" traditions. As a result, some native peoples have lost their culture, yet they are not accepted into the greater world of Christiandom. They are caught between worlds. In the process of "saving" them, the missionaries have stripped them of their identity, culture, history and their very souls.

Another thing is that missionaries often go abroad with the pretense of material aid. The people they are proselytizing to are usually in the depths of poverty, they need food and shelter which the missionaries are supposedly there to provide. If Christians are truly compassionate, why not provide these things without asking for their souls in return? Are we not cheapening their souls?

If the word of God is the truth, let it stand alone.

and

LEAVE THESE PEOPLE ALONE GODDAMMIT!




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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #826924 - 08/18/02 11:51 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Nice post!

Everyone finds solace in something. That something is just different depending on who you ask. I think that's great you find solace in going to church.

I think the Bible has some really good teachings in it. There are just too many things about it and church that I personally don't agree with. The same goes for every organized religion that I have researched.

Sometimes I think about going to church for the exact reason that you say you still go. I've never found the motivation or had the real need to do so, though. I simply find my solace in nature, but that has to do with my own personal belief system.

I have my own ways of making myself a better person. I don't think it matters where a person finds those ways; just as long as he finds them.

By the way, I also agree that it is unfair for an entire religion (or any organization for that matter) to be judged by what one fuck-up does.

-RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #826941 - 08/19/02 12:11 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think the good aspects of religion is taken for granted by most people. They do a lot of good in the world.

And guess what. All the media, news, and cameras are focused on some idiot up north who molested a little boy. Now many people look down upon the religion as a whole because of this. How do you think people from my church feel?

I sympathize with you. Its unfair that your church has to be associated with them. But it's not just some "idiot up north", it's a whole bunch of idiots up north.

It's not just individual priests who are responsible, it's an institutional problem - there have been high level coverups. So in my opinion, it is fair to judge The Church (but not all small churches) by the actions of these idiots. They couldn't hold themselves up to the standard that they set for everyone else. So if anyone should be blamed for smearing the good name of the church, it should be the idiots in the church, not those in the media.


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OfflinePeace_Patrol
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Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 350
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Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: infidelGOD]
    #827024 - 08/19/02 01:43 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, you need to give your preist some shrooms
You ever tried goin to church trippin? hehehe


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Offlinekneegrow
Blackman with aGun
Registered: 08/12/02
Posts: 281
Loc: so. cal
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #827146 - 08/19/02 03:40 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

why follow an institution that supposedly follows god when it's man made and all the rules are just common sense for creating a good life? i think many people turn away from god because they can't separate God from religion. and religion is corrupt because it's from man. you can't preach the word of god, which was written by some guy, and turn around and do terrible things all throughout history, then expect people to follow your god. when they could find god on their own. do you think people would have believed in jesus if the net was around then? of course not! its the reason why all religions laugh at the mormons....cause it's so hokie and contridictory to earlier things. most people wouldn't be chrisitan if they weren't born into it. only those that feel a void in their life for one reason or another get into it (born again). christianity is just a gang that tries to sell itself to others while making it's members feel apart of something. (and i don't mean gang in a bad way, but that's what it is) and being social beings we are drawn to being apart of a community. but really...religion has outlived it's purpose. you can have just as good of a relationship with god without religion.


--------------------
stayin spaced out like Dr. Octagon


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Offlinekneegrow
Blackman with aGun
Registered: 08/12/02
Posts: 281
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Re: Why I still go to church [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #827147 - 08/19/02 03:43 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

oh yeah. and FYI....to be a christian you must believe jesus is actually god himself. not a rep or anything like that, but God himself!!! that's the defination....otherwise you should objectively study what yer learning about.


--------------------
stayin spaced out like Dr. Octagon


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OfflinetheFutureIsSweet
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Registered: 08/10/02
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Re: Why I still go to church [Re: kneegrow]
    #828137 - 08/19/02 02:04 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Listen Chap,

I think It's great that you find solace and a sense of spiritual satisfaction in the church. But I have to agree with the atheists here on a few points. First of all, the problems with sexual abuse by priests. This is not an incidental problem with priests at all, and the reason for that is the churches stubborn attempts to repress sexuality as an act of lust/love or curiosity. Espicially in the roman catholic church, wich has the celibacy. People always want what they can't have, it's a very simple rule. Add to that the authority and decorum this turns the priest into a potential danger. He is not allowed to express a part of himself wich is on the whole is the main reason we're here.

Augustinus, one of the most important early christian philosophers even went so far as to ban all forms of lust from his life, feeling guilty when he enjoyed listening to a psalm. This of course is a very unnatural way of life, and this is only one example of the way in wich organized religion tries to turn us into something we are basically not.

As for it's high morality,and the churches care for the weak and the poor.I'm sorry, but it is the very least the church can do. Not one institute on "God's" earth is so extremely rich as the church, and this has been true for over more than a thousand years now. It is not noble of them to give some to the poor and the weak, they're just paying back a little debt.

Not that I wanna knock religion on the whole. It is vitally important for every person to have a sense of direction. Most people don't have the power to live out all their ambitions, so church gives them that feeling. They KNOW that if they're really good they'll go to heaven. And for some people thatis a reason to be a better person. There are a lot of very good and sensible people who have devoted their life to God. I have noproblem with that. Bothering other people with it,however,I think is senseless and arrogant. Who are you to tell someone else what to believe. And : if God made men, then he also made Atheists like me. Hemust be real sadist, first creating us evil nonbelievers, fucking your whole religious life up with logic and science and proof , and then after we die, wweget to burn in hell for all our efforts. I'm sorry, but if that's God, I don't wanna love him.I'd be scared as hell for a person with such devious mind and so much power.

One more thing. I just went tomy best friends mother's funeral. And she meant a lot to me. She used to be like a second mom to me. And we were sitting in the church listening to that priest. A guy who only vaguely had known her, who talked about Jezus for about an hour and where the dots in the form were he just read her name. And really,it wasn't even that bad, cause it was a very soothing man, and he had been careful,in his choice of biblefragments. But still, I don't thinkit's right to bother people, with all these irrelevant preachings. We should be thinking about her. She died. And maybe Jesus died too,but that's 2000 years ago. We all didn't know the guy.We don't know what the bible says about him is exactly true. We should be mourning the dead here, or celebrating our memories of them.And if we are religious, well okay then let us pray she will find a paradise on the otherside of the light. But I don't need to know, that we should not forget that Paul said in his letter to the corinthians, that we shouldn't mourn the dead, and that we shouldn't get mad at God for taking her away. First of all I know he said that. But I am MAD, and it's a good thing there ain't no such thing as God, or else I'd be superpissed at him. Spirituality is something personal. We all have it rightinside of us. And I'll never want an institution to take that away from me.

"Who is this God person Anyway?"


--------------------
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids,we'd all be
running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive
electronic music."
Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989


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Invisiblexnevermore
? Ω?

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #828351 - 08/19/02 03:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well if you need religion to make you a good person, then go ahead. I, however, believe in being a good person without the threat of eternal damnation forcing me to. I don't need the bible to tell me how to behave. I don't need a bible to tell me what's right and what's wrong. I figure it out on my own. I think about the different ways I could act and decide logically whether it's the right or wrong way.

As for missionaries, I hate them. I really do. I don't walk up to a Christian and tell him everything he believes is wrong. You have to realize that as much as you believe in Christianity, there are others who feel just as strongly about their beliefs. What makes them think that what they believe is right and everyone else is wrong? Keep your religion to yourself. Don't impose it on others.


--------------------
- xnevermore


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OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
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Re: Why I still go to church [Re: theFutureIsSweet]
    #828381 - 08/19/02 03:59 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'm hearing alot of people say "The church".


"The church should do this.... the church should do that...."


Once again, please stay away from generalizing like this.


Stop expecting "the church" to move as one GIANT UNITED body. Because that is completeley NOT what it is.

=As for it's high morality,and the churches care for the weak and the poor.I'm sorry, but it is the very least the church can do.=

Excuse me!?!?!? So now you're expecting something out of an institution you chose to denounce? My entire post was to show that they DO DO THIS SORT OF THING. You expecting more from the church is a perfect example of how unnappreciated the institution really is.

Yes they can still do more, I agree. But keep in mind, they can do ALOT LESS too.

=Bothering other people with it,however,I think is senseless and arrogant. Who are you to tell someone else what to believe. =

You OBVIOUSLY didn't read the post in it's entirety. Missionarys and such tell other people what to believe because they believe in it. So they believe they're "saving" other people from being damned to hell. It's in the principles of christianity.



=First of all, the problems with sexual abuse by priests. This is not an incidental problem with priests at all, and the reason for that is the churches stubborn attempts to repress sexuality as an act of lust/love or curiosity.=


The CHURCHES? the CHURCHES? WHAT? You think all the churches in the world were ALL stubbornly repressing these things? My own preacher believed the same thing you did about how people shouldn't keep this sort of issue in hiding.

Once again, please refrain from applying certain stereotypes to churches in general. There are many types of divisions from christianity/bible based faiths with many different opposing views on these topics.




-ok the last story you brought up i agree with, at the time the speaker felt it necessary to share a message like that to the group. Perhaps it was going to far and it was innappropriate.



But just keep in mind why you probably encounter people trying to change your faith and such. They do it because they (faithbased) don't want you to go to hell.


I'm not in that sort of position. I know that. Atheists have their reasons to follow their own beleifs. But in no way should they think people are pestering them about religion for selfish reasons.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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OfflinegeokillsA
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙
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Registered: 05/08/01
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Re: Why I still go to church [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #828918 - 08/19/02 08:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

I have my own ways of making myself a better person. I don't think it matters where a person finds those ways; just as long as he finds them.


i completely agree with you rebelsteve. i see people who go to church as people who want/need something to believe in. of course, this is not a bad thing at all, so long as it doesn't lead to them pressuring their beliefs on others. to have faith in something is a great thing, and if you choose to have faith in a church - more power to you. but i myself (as i have concluded you are as well) am content with my life as it is and can take an objective stance on my life to make myself a better person by myself without the aid of such a structured organization as a church/religeon.


and liquidsmoke, as far as:
"Missionarys and such tell other people what to believe because they believe in it. So they believe they're "saving" other people from being damned to hell. It's in the principles of christianity."
i think it is ridiculous to excuse some of their behavior just because they have blind faith. regardless of how much faith you put into something, you should not use your faith to judge other people as "in need of salvation." i have no problem with people of religeon, but i do have a problem when they consider myself (being agnostic) an unworthy member of society because i choose to hold different beliefs than they do.


--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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Offlinekneegrow
Blackman with aGun
Registered: 08/12/02
Posts: 281
Loc: so. cal
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: theFutureIsSweet]
    #829101 - 08/19/02 09:45 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

>>>>> and the reason for that is the churches stubborn attempts to repress sexuality as an act of lust/love or curiosity

being a pedophile is a mental condition. it's not a result of lack of sex. priests can easily have afairs with adults, have prostitutes, and have sex with other priests. it's well known by the catholic church that the priesthood is a haven for homosexuals. "our sunday visitor", a catholic newspaper did a poll and like 1/4 of the priests were practicing homos (or had AIDS, i don't remember but regardless 1/4 is high). the media was saying it's the lack of sex when the scandel first hit, but they realized the sick act of sex with children is not normal and is not due to lack of sex.

i hate organized religion, but i also hate myths.....


--------------------
stayin spaced out like Dr. Octagon


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Offlinekneegrow
Blackman with aGun
Registered: 08/12/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #829124 - 08/19/02 09:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

>>>>> But in no way should they think people are pestering them about religion for selfish reasons.

to be evangelical, your point is to save other people. now...if you save someone's life....aren't you a hero? pat on the back, etc???? they believe they earn grace and have a better chance of going to heaven if they do such a thing. he other half are socially forced to do it. there are such things as blacklists that the jehovah's witness' use as well as scientology. people that are into mormonism will disassociate themselves with their kids sometimes if they don't like the kid's choices in life.

christianity has it's own extremists, but they are considered "good people". they live a good life, etc, but if you get deep down into their brain and see how they really feel about the other religions or the less religious....it's quite ugly! i know these people......and they aren't as rare as you think.


--------------------
stayin spaced out like Dr. Octagon


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OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
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Re: Why I still go to church [Re: kneegrow]
    #829211 - 08/19/02 11:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Good point.



I do also think many aspects of the religion need to be re-examined, because like my many posts before, I see alot of corruption even amongst those considered spiritually superior.



I guess you can say it is downgrading in a way for someone to come up to you and declare your beleifs inferior to theirs. But keep in mind, once again, me repeating myself, WHY you have missionaries in the first place.

In the body of the church, people are encouraged to "share the gospel" with people who may not know about it yet. IN order to "save" their neighbors.

If it's a blind faith, so be it.

You can take such actions in two different ways. You can consider it an insult or downgrading of your own beleifs, which many of you seem to do. Or you can try to understand WHY these people are doing this in the first place. Look at THEIR point of view for once. If you chose not to accept it, fine, I really don't care. I know I'm not here to preach to you.

If someone is trying to degrade your beleifs and trying to make you become Christian, it's because they don't want you to go to hell. Not because they want to attack your own principles or make you feel wrong about everything. I don't know if there's some sort of reward involved or blessing promised from God. All I can say is that this is the soul purpose for people's intent on turning around your faith.

I really don't care if you believe in hell. But whoever pesters you about it obviously does. YES they think they have the right beleifs. And it probably is an arrogant thing to do. But they obviously don't look at it that way. To them it's all about "hey, I've seen the LIGHT, now I want to show other people"


You know, maybe it is for some sort of reward promised by a greater being. IN that case, it would be a bit selfish. But once again, from a christian's, faith-based point of view, all they see themselves doing is saving another person from eternal damnation. If you chose to be offended by such actions, atleast try to understand where these people are coming from.


On a side note, alot of you seem to be taking my post defensively. Once again, I will repeat myself. I'm not here to tell you to be christian, nor am I justifying the actions of these people by saying it's faith-based. I'm not even saying this is the way it should all be.


The post was originally there to provide you all with another perspective on why christians do and act a certain way. It's not MY OWN perspective, but one I observe seeing from the "inside".

If you feel offended by what I'm saying, or if it seems like I'm threatening your beleifs, I'm sorry.


Personally, IN my own opinion, I don't know if these are the right ways to carry on(christians applying faiths to non-believers). I am against missionaries who do a great deal of destroying another person's culture. I think it's very close-minded and selfish too.


-=I was just trying to show, amidst all the criticism of religion on this message board, that there ARE SOME good sides to the religion as a whole.=-


You can speak all the anti-religion posts you want. It doesn't apply to what the post was originally saying. You're just repeating what i usually state on most religious posts.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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Anonymous

Re: Why I still go to church [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #829613 - 08/20/02 07:40 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Good stuff.

Here's a idea.

Christians are told to "let their light shine". Outside of hallucinogenic experiences when was the last time you heard a light?

I love chocolate cake but I get offended when some do-gooder who also likes it smashes it in my face in order to feed me.

Cheers,


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Invisiblexnevermore
? Ω?

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: ]
    #829699 - 08/20/02 08:26 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

lol.
Nice analogy.


--------------------
- xnevermore


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OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
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Last seen: 17 hours, 52 minutes
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: ]
    #831207 - 08/20/02 08:35 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ah touche!!!





I get what you're saying. That was quite a good analogy.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why I still go to church [Re: ]
    #831342 - 08/20/02 09:35 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

...and it is worse if one doesn't like chocolate cake.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Why I still go to church [Re: Swami]
    #832066 - 08/21/02 06:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I like homemade chocolate cake.


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Anonymous

Re: Why I still go to church [Re: Swami]
    #832231 - 08/21/02 08:18 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I hear ya. Thanks, I had a really good hard laugh over your answer.


Here's the deal with cake. I'm eating a piece of choclate cake like the ones my mother used to bake. I'm sitting there eating it and really enjoying it. You are watching me. After a while you say to me that I seem to really like that cake. I answer, yes, I do, it's chocolate but like unto any chocolate cake you may have had. It is pure and has a very unique flavor created after years of study and hard work. It isn't like your mom's chocolate cake and it certainly isn't like your brother's cake, it isn't even like your girlfriend's cake and hers was pretty good. Maybe, just maybe, you might be curious enough to try it.

When you are open enough to try it or maybe hungry enough to try it you see for yourself that it is unbelievably good. Stunned you become a disciple of the special chocolate cake. The only way to know if it is good is to eat it. Don't take my word for it, Swam. I ain't even gonna tell ya it's good. I'm just gonna keep fillin' up on my cake and those that wish to try some are welcome to it. Some have said, it tastes heavenly.

Take care, Bro


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